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Author Topic: Feeling coerced into "Staying"  (Read 714 times)
Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« on: September 12, 2014, 01:56:00 PM »

She's laying it on thick now, and I feel myself becoming enmeshed again.

6 months of raging. 6 weeks of being nice, and now she's talking about loving eachother forever.

I feel myself wanting to say "I love you", but questioning if that is true or if I would be saying it to please her.

I feel myself wanting to say, "Let's get back together", but not sure if that's what I want.

It feels like a vortex pulling me in. Struggling to handle this. Any tips?
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2014, 02:34:00 PM »

Be strong!

I know exactly how you feel. For almost a year, it seemed that my husband and I were off again on again. If I brought up leaving, he would pour it on so thick. At first, it was the guilt trips about him not getting to see the kids. Then it was, he couldn't bear to watch some other guy raise his kids. Then it was the finances and how he would give me and the kids what he could but that I would have to get another job and the kids would have to completely change their lifestyles. And then it was something else. Basically, he made it perfectly clear that he was NOT going to leave. I don't think he will ever leave.

Back in June, I figured out how the girls and I could leave. I didn't do it because it upset the girls so much. The frustrating thing for me was that he said a lot of the same things that you mention. He went on and on about how much he loves me. He went on and on about how he would be celibate if he had to. He poured it on really thick. I stayed but my heart is not in it at all. I am trying to find ways to create more peace and hope that at some point I can feel better about things. In the mean time, I feel like I am just going through the motions.

Do you have any kids together?

Have you worked on setting boundaries?

Are you clear about what you will and won't tolerate?

Have you made lists of the pros and cons of staying versus leaving?
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Moselle
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Relationship status: Divorced
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2014, 02:50:12 PM »

Do you have any kids together?

Have you worked on setting boundaries?

Are you clear about what you will and won't tolerate?

Have you made lists of the pros and cons of staying versus leaving?

3 girls 13, 10 and 5

Yes I'm comfortable with the boundaries I have set. In fact I've become very good at protecting my boundaries.

Yes, very clear.

No I've not done a pro and con list. Why would I need to do a pro and con list if I loved this person?

It's not the boundaries, or what I can prevent. It's what you mention in your other post. The opportunity cost.

- It's laughing with your best friend at a silly thing because you both find it hilariously funny.

- It's sitting watching a sunset, without the anxiety, and tenseness in the air that's caused by living on different planets.

- It's the peace and tranquility of being together as a family, and everyone is at peace with eachother and not on edge.

- It's the beauty of calm, peaceful intimacy, with your best friend, preceded by verbal intimacy (open discussions about wants, needs dreams and aspirations)

- Its the joy that comes from being a tag team. Being able to rely on another adult to do the friggin right thing for a change

- It's being able to strike up a conversation with strangers, and not her say stupid, innapropriate stuff.

- It's being married and not feeling lonely!

It's not the things that I can prevent, it's the things that will never happen.

OK download over :-)
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2014, 03:46:47 PM »

No I've not done a pro and con list. Why would I need to do a pro and con list if I loved this person?

Sometimes, it takes more than love!

I have had to walk away from people that I love because I was not able to be in the relationship. For example, I love my big sister but I have had to cut her out of my life because trying to have a relationship with her was more than I could handle.

Also, it helps to make a list so that you can be perfectly honest with yourself about the pros and cons. For me, I want all of the things that you listed but I know that I will likely never get them. For me, the thing that is most important is my girls. My husband and I have 4 daughters together (13, 10, 7, 5). One of the things that is most important to me is trying to find a way to stay with my husband so that my girls can have both of their parents. That may change if my husband's behavior were to become dangerous to me or the girls. Right now, most of what he does is really annoying. Frankly, living with my husband is more like living with an annoying sibling than a life partner.

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Indyan
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2014, 04:51:17 PM »

Be strong!

I know exactly how you feel. For almost a year, it seemed that my husband and I were off again on again. If I brought up leaving, he would pour it on so thick. At first, it was the guilt trips about him not getting to see the kids. Then it was, he couldn't bear to watch some other guy raise his kids. Then it was the finances and how he would give me and the kids what he could but that I would have to get another job and the kids would have to completely change their lifestyles. And then it was something else. Basically, he made it perfectly clear that he was NOT going to leave. I don't think he will ever leave.

Wow, exactly, exactly the same thing here!

My PBDbf is staying at his parents at the moment (his choice in the first place) but keeps complaining that he suffers from not seeing his baby everyday. I told him he could rent a little studio nearby, so we could let dust settle a bit, but he went mad. I told him I couldn't live like this, not knowing whether we are a couple or not, and that since he had "decided" to break up (during his last crisis) I hence could chat on dating sites online for example (not that I feel like it though). That really had an effect on him - he said he loved me blah blah blah. Then he put a horrible pressure on me about money, showing in fact how much in the s*it I was without him.

He's not at home though. What's the atmosphere like at yours?
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2014, 06:26:51 PM »

Wow, exactly, exactly the same thing here!

My PBDbf is staying at his parents at the moment (his choice in the first place) but keeps complaining that he suffers from not seeing his baby everyday. I told him he could rent a little studio nearby, so we could let dust settle a bit, but he went mad. I told him I couldn't live like this, not knowing whether we are a couple or not, and that since he had "decided" to break up (during his last crisis) I hence could chat on dating sites online for example (not that I feel like it though). That really had an effect on him - he said he loved me blah blah blah. Then he put a horrible pressure on me about money, showing in fact how much in the s*it I was without him.

He's not at home though. What's the atmosphere like at yours?

We lived in the same house the whole time we were of again on again. We had separate bedrooms, took off our wedding rings, and considered ourselves separated. We both both fooled around on the side. My husband didn't care if I was seeing other people. Frankly, it excited him and he wanted details.

The atmosphere has changed considerably. It is much, much better. I moved us back into the same bedroom. He wouldn't do anything to help me with it so I did it myself. I tried to sleep in the same bed with him more regularly. I tried to give him concrete things to do. He always looks to me for what to do unless he doesn't like what I am doing and then he will behave like a child. And, I noticed that the more frantic and out of control I was, the more frantic and out of control he got. So, I told him that divorce was off the table. He has a tendency to be very fatalistic. If I bring up negative things, he will automatically jump to the topic of divorce. That makes it really, really difficult to have a discussion about how to move forward.

Tonight, we were having a conversation and I said that I did not want to end up like my mother (whiny, miserable, and unhappy in her marriage). He retorts, "We'll get a divorce before that happens." I was thinking more along the lines of both of us working together. His default assumption always seems to be divorce.

Also, in regards to the list that I made, I tried to be very practical and think about things like:

-He takes the cars in for oil changes.

-He does a lot of the grocery shopping.

-He can be really funny.

-The kids may not always get along with him but they do really love him and can't imagine their lives without him.

-He has a steady job and has no problem with me managing the finances (a blessing and a curse).

No, I may not get a lot of my emotional needs met by him but there are a lot of little things that he does that makes it worthwhile. It is so easy to get caught up in the negativity that one can be blind to the little things that the partner contributes. Heck, if he weren't around, I wouldn't be able to run to the grocery store without taking the kids because my kids are still pretty young.

Oh, and when I was looking for resources about separation and divorce, I came across a list of things to really consider. I book marked it and read it quite frequently because it brings up very practical things such as, "If you and your partner separate and you have kids, then it is inevitable that he/she will start dating. If you aren't in the picture, then you will have no say and no input on who or what your kids are exposed to when your child is with the other parent." Here is the link: www.sandradodd.com/separation
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2014, 01:39:21 AM »

No I've not done a pro and con list. Why would I need to do a pro and con list if I loved this person?

In your shoes, I don't know that I'd do a pro and con list either.

What I did do a few years back was realize that I would always love my wife no matter what. End of Statement.

At the same time I realized that I might not be able to live with my wife without losing myself or all self respect/autonomy. That I could hit a point where I would need to leave just to save myself... .despite still loving her. And that I was rapidly going down a road in that direction, which I needed to change. Now.

That understanding did help me make changes in myself--I was willing to stand up for myself inside the r/s so I wouldn't have to leave it. We've both been through a lot and grown a lot since then.

So do take care of yourself, and really think about what core of yourself you need to protect, and how you can do it.

 GK
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Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2014, 01:50:07 AM »

No I've not done a pro and con list. Why would I need to do a pro and con list if I loved this person?

In your shoes, I don't know that I'd do a pro and con list either.

What I did do a few years back was realize that I would always love my wife no matter what. End of Statement.

At the same time I realized that I might not be able to live with my wife without losing myself or all self respect/autonomy. That I could hit a point where I would need to leave just to save myself... .despite still loving her. And that I was rapidly going down a road in that direction, which I needed to change. Now.

That understanding did help me make changes in myself--I was willing to stand up for myself inside the r/s so I wouldn't have to leave it. We've both been through a lot and grown a lot since then.

So do take care of yourself, and really think about what core of yourself you need to protect, and how you can do it.

 GK

Thanks GK!

Oh I like that alot. Some friends said the other day. I hope you don't think  we are taking sides, we like both you and w. My response was quite eye opening after I had said it. I said, "I like her too, I just don't know that I can live with her."
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RR4U
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2014, 09:25:32 AM »

This seems so real except the kids part but instesd he replaces our two dogs in the kids part. No matter how much I tell myself im sticking to the marriage plan, I find myself always second guessing it when he constantly says divorce to get out of something or avoid doing something. 

We now have been sleeping in different rooms. I bring up him sleeping in the same room and I hear im not there yet. Will he ever be there? I filed fpr seperation thinking maybe he would figure out what he wanted but this was before the realization he has BPD.  So now we are seperated and acting married when it works in his plan.

How do you continue to this without going crazy at  the same time.  I cant find amyone besides reading these posts that understand.
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Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2014, 09:59:24 AM »

This seems so real except the kids part but instesd he replaces our two dogs in the kids part. No matter how much I tell myself im sticking to the marriage plan, I find myself always second guessing it when he constantly says divorce to get out of something or avoid doing something. 

We now have been sleeping in different rooms. I bring up him sleeping in the same room and I hear im not there yet. Will he ever be there? I filed fpr seperation thinking maybe he would figure out what he wanted but this was before the realization he has BPD.  So now we are seperated and acting married when it works in his plan.

How do you continue to this without going crazy at  the same time.  I cant find amyone besides reading these posts that understand.

Welcome RR4U.

It is very hard to figure this all out, and you have definitely come to the right place. Can I ask you what you want from your relationship?

Moselle
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RR4U
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2014, 10:51:45 AM »

Moselle... .used to think that if I got stronger and stop falling for the triggers it would get better and we could have a somewhat of a normal marriage but im starting to lose hope. As long as I have no expectations things are quiet. But not sure this is going to work  for me much longer.  I would like to one day have children but do I want them to grow up in this type of home. My parents are both divorced and onto their third marriages, I had hopes I could break the cycle. Not looking like that was my card delt for me.
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Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2014, 11:39:38 AM »

As long as I have no expectations things are quiet.

This is why I asked you what you want. LOL

What does your statement tell you about your relationship?

Are there any other unspoken rules of his?
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RR4U
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2014, 12:26:02 PM »

It tells me I forget about me and my needs.

Unspoken rules are if he needs to reach me no matter where I am or what I am doing I shpuld jump. I should be home right afer work. Everything is black or white
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Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2014, 01:22:49 PM »

It tells me I forget about me and my needs.

Unspoken rules are if he needs to reach me no matter where I am or what I am doing I shpuld jump. I should be home right afer work. Everything is black or white

I like how you said that. You own your needs. They are yours. I spent 4 days last week writing all my needs down. I framed them as wants, and sent them to my W. She said she excited to work on them. I have that in writing :-) LOL

What do you want to do with your needs/wants?

Keep noting all the rules. It's good to be aware of them. Are you comfortable with obeying the rules?
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Indyan
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2014, 02:57:10 PM »

Also, in regards to the list that I made, I tried to be very practical and think about things like:

-He takes the cars in for oil changes.

Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post)

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Indyan
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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2014, 03:06:41 PM »

So now we are seperated and acting married when it works in his plan.

How do you continue to this without going crazy at  the same time.  I cant find amyone besides reading these posts that understand.

Yes, BPDs are in their element when things are hazy.

That's precisely what I don't want anymore. My BPD has decided to live elsewhere and tells me he's not ready to clear things out and commit to the relationship with trust. But he doesn't "give his permission" (word for word!) to me to start considering dating someone else (I don't feel like at all though).

You MUSTN'T tolerate this. You could force him into a clearer situation by showing what he'd really be like to be divorced for example. Well, I have to admit that this is was I'm doing and it hasn't really been efficient Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). It made him angry and insecure, but did nothing to "clear" things up... .  So what else is there to do about this? I wonder
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2014, 07:00:14 PM »

You MUSTN'T tolerate this. You could force him into a clearer situation by showing what he'd really be like to be divorced for example. Well, I have to admit that this is was I'm doing and it hasn't really been efficient Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). It made him angry and insecure, but did nothing to "clear" things up... .  So what else is there to do about this? I wonder

First off, accept that there is nothing you can do to change his behavior. The behavior of a BPD is largely unpredictable. Besides, doing the whole trying to force things by showing him what it is like to be divorced is controlling. I am seeing that a lot of the things that I have tried over the years were focused on me doing something in the hopes that he would reciprocate or change. I had read so many times, "If you do x, y, and z, then perhaps it will inspire him to do a, b, or c." No, nothing I do inspires him. Nothing I do seems to make any difference. The only thing that seems to create peace is for me to take whatever he is willing to give. Today has been a frustrating day for me because the kids wanted to go places but they didn't want dad to go because he tends to be anxious and grumpy. So, we go out. Instead of helping with some of the chores around the house, he records a video and plays the computer. When I brought it up, he pointed out that he had done a little bit of laundry and seemed rather annoyed that I would be frustrated because there are so many things to do around here and not enough hours in the day.

So, I try to read and reread the lessons so that I can figure out what I will or won't accept. I try to pay attention to things and try to figure out patterns. It is very frustrating though. I am working on myself with the assumption that nothing about him will ever change.
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Indyan
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2014, 05:01:02 AM »

I am working on myself with the assumption that nothing about him will ever change.

On my part, if I succeed in doing this, I'll leave for good.

I have already moved my boundaries a great deal, I can't tolerate more than I already do.

And seeing playing games was in fact the start of this chaos. I was exhausted, with a broken back (from carrying baby I guess), and had to carry on doing everything. When I mentionned at the end of the week-end that he's spent all his time on his computer, he got angry and mentionned breaking up.

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RR4U
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« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2014, 02:53:50 PM »

Arr its just so frustrating but its def nice to know im not alone. Last night I read some of the articles on here and tried some of the suggestions.  I mentioned that I dont want to talk about divorce anymore. I said if thats what you really want to do then call the attorney and we can figure out the details at that point.  (House) we shall see how that goes. Just another boundary for me.
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Indyan
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« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2014, 03:09:16 PM »

Arr its just so frustrating but its def nice to know im not alone. Last night I read some of the articles on here and tried some of the suggestions.  I mentioned that I dont want to talk about divorce anymore. I said if thats what you really want to do then call the attorney and we can figure out the details at that point.  (House) we shall see how that goes. Just another boundary for me.

Your attitude might look contradictory to him. You don't want to talk about divorce but you mention attorney... .

I made that mistake actually when he kept mentioning shared custody, I said I had enough and I'd contact an attorney if that's what he'd want, thinking that'd make him stop. In fact I just sparked his suspicion and he made an appointment with an attorney... .*sigh*
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