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Author Topic: Any experience or suggestions for being painted black for a prolonged period?  (Read 872 times)
hope2727
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« on: September 12, 2014, 07:25:32 PM »

Hello,

I am wondering what is the longest time a loved one has painted you black. I am currently 4.5 months split from my fiancee and have seen him briefly last week. He was projecting and blaming bug time. I managed to use SET reasonably well but he still left angry and hostile. HE is in therapy and on meds (effexor) but still drinking and doesn't seem committed to therapy. He is repeating a lot of things he has said in therapy before but now is using me as a scapegoat. Seems he has taken all his bad acts and laid them on my door step so to speak.

I am doing ok. Working on me. Reading and learning a great deal while he is away. I keep hoping he will begin to engage in his therapy a bit more effectively but in truth I don't think he has hit rock bottom yet. I suspect that will come but may take awhile.

I have been moving on with my life without him. I want him to get well for him and then maybe he can be a part of us again. I just wonder how long other board members have experiences being spit black and devalued? This is definately the longest he has ever done it to me.

Ok well happy weekend all. I hope you have a great few days.

Thanks for the input

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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2014, 08:26:10 PM »

Longest for me was about two weeks.  Probably would have been longer(or a permanent break up) if we werent living together and she had some other place to go.  My feeling is use the time split black to work on yourself, catch your breath, and think about what you want and need out of the relationship.  Its a good time to read up on the tools presented here as well.   Trying to get back on his good side before he is ready will only tire you and make you feel worse.
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2014, 08:55:01 PM »

Longest for me is usually 2-4 months.  It ALWAYS works in patters.  She's done it about 5 times already.

I do believe, however, that I am only painted black for 1-2 months... but shes too nervous or scared to even contact me, in fear that I'll be upset.  Or she remains convinced by her friends to NOT contact me, for they keep telling her, "Oh you don't need him! Start Fresh!"  Thats what girls always do.

So about 2-4 months.
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2014, 08:55:56 PM »

Longest for me is usually 2-4 months.  It ALWAYS works in patters.  She's done it about 5 times already.

I do believe, however, that I am only painted black for 1-2 months... but shes too nervous or scared to even contact me, in fear that I'll be upset.  Or she remains convinced by her friends to NOT contact me, for they keep telling her, "Oh you don't need him! Start Fresh!"  Thats what girls always do.

So about 2-4 months.

Whoops I forgot to add...

Abotu 2-4 months.  But I start to see signs that she's depressed and misses me about 1-2.  I see posts she makes on instagram about cutting and quotes she writes about being alone.
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hope2727
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2014, 10:26:01 PM »

Thanks for the responses. I am most certainly working on me. And in truth just working lots.    Nothing like work to make your worries seem less important. I just wonder sometimes if he will ever swing his pendulum back the other way.

What a horrible way for out BPD loved ones to feel. I don't envy them. I am glad that even when I want to strangle him I love him. He is very much of the "you don't need her just start fresh" frame of mind. I guess that is part of the emotional immaturity.

Thanks again for all the feed back.
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2014, 10:34:58 PM »

Best suggestion if you are painted black is to pray that you stay painted black. Unless you have kids I think the best thing you can do with a BPD is not know them.
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2014, 11:17:02 PM »

Best suggestion if you are painted black is to pray that you stay painted black. Unless you have kids I think the best thing you can do with a BPD is not know them.

But thats basically like saying that these people are doomed and should be cast out of humanity to never meet anyone.  Like lets just throw them all into a fire or into a cage.

I mean, we might of not known they were BPD when we got involved into their life... but we did get involved, and since we did... we now care :/.  And theyre human too
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2014, 12:33:49 AM »

I don't want them cast out of the human race, just that they stay away from me. How dare they enter into a relationship knowing full well that it had a 100% chance of ending in tears. If they must get into relationships, let it be with other BPD sufferers.

If they decide to admit their condition and get treatment for it, well that's a whole different ball game.

Best suggestion if you are painted black is to pray that you stay painted black. Unless you have kids I think the best thing you can do with a BPD is not know them.

But thats basically like saying that these people are doomed and should be cast out of humanity to never meet anyone.  Like lets just throw them all into a fire or into a cage.

I mean, we might of not known they were BPD when we got involved into their life... but we did get involved, and since we did... we now care :/.  And theyre human too

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hope2727
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2014, 10:14:12 AM »

I don't feel angry (much) over mines behaviour. Some time, distance and education has led me to understand and empathize far more with what he endures. I just wondered if anyone had constructive advice other than leave him alone until he reaches out. Mine was truly a great and dynamic person until recent stressors derailed him completely. He is currently in therapy (with unknown levels of commitment) and truly wants to have a happy life. Wether he can achieve that or not remains to be seen.

I understand the anger that leads to walking away. I just am not able to hang onto my anger. I find myself mostly neutral or a bit sad at this point. Mostly I feel very sorry for mine as I know he is suffering.

So as a follow up question has anyone successfully reached out to theirs in NC and devaluation or is that just a ridiculous idea.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I am doing fine and in fact not even missing him that much but I wish he didn't suffer as much as he does. He has completely isolated himself and is struggling to just manage work and life at the moment. Probably the best thing for him in truth. He is completely unrealistic about money and adult responsibilities and this has been an enlightening experience for him if nothing else.

I am in some ways happy that he is struggling just enough to force him to learn that money can only be spent once, bills are due every month, not everyone is your friend or has good advice, some people DO have your best interests at heart, you can't have everything you want all the time, and his job isn't that secure or well paid. Seems mean but really he should have learned this 20 years ago. At least he seems to be making the connections now. Still has a way to go but its coming. Oh and my favourite lesson. You made your bed, or debt, or mess so you get to go clean it up.

I meanwhile am learning patience.

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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2014, 01:14:20 PM »

Staying with a BPD partner or friend is a choice; however, from my experience, the triggers will continue, the painting black will always resurface and you will be recycled and eventually REPLACED. To avoid the extreme pain that comes from being a mentally balanced person who chooses to interact with a BPD, mentally UNbalanced person comes with a great cost. It also closes doors to healthy relationships, as you are so caught up in trying to make abnormal into normal.
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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2014, 03:22:21 PM »

Staying with a BPD partner or friend is a choice; however, from my experience, the triggers will continue, the painting black will always resurface and you will be recycled and eventually REPLACED. To avoid the extreme pain that comes from being a mentally balanced person who chooses to interact with a BPD, mentally UNbalanced person comes with a great cost. It also closes doors to healthy relationships, as you are so caught up in trying to make abnormal into normal.

This is what makes life so interesting... .Your experience tells you that nothing will ever change, and in the end you will be replaced with someone else. In my own experience, I've learned how to manage to stay happily married for 40 years, eventually learning how to deal with being painted black in ways that ends it before it even happens, or within a very short time if it does.

Using the Tools for Communication, Validation & Reinforcement of good behavior, and all of the information in the links to the right hand side of this page, I've found that I can live a fulfilling and relatively peaceful and happy life with my soulmate, my Husband.

I think if you would read this thread: Willfulness and Willingness you will find the ways in order to minimize the painting black duration. And I've given the techniques that I use, in that thread, which include:



Not JADEing
(Justifying my actions, Arguing my points, Defending my position, Explaining how I feel or think) right in the beginning of a dysregulation, which always shortens the length of the dysregulation itself, and most times heads off a subsequent painted black result right in the beginning.



Detaching
from his initial dysregulation, not taking it personally, so that I don't react in a way that prolongs or escalates the event. I realize his feelings are his and don't necessarily even have to do with me at all, therefore I don't get dysregulated myself while he is expressing them.

There really are ways to minimize being painted black, and the duration of such an event. One of the ways is to realize that all relationships are different, and by not expecting those things to happen. All people are different, and we can't just generalize that all loved ones with BPD are going to act a certain way and all events are going to end up with a separation, divorce or infidelity. Because life is interesting in that way 

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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2014, 03:51:52 PM »

I really do appreciate all your replies. I can totally see both sides of the situation. I have NC with my SO at the moment (his choice). And I am actually working hard on myself. I have even been making new friends and doing new things. But the absence of him in my life is keen and I leave the door cracked open in case his therapy is successful and he might choose to rebuild on a healthier footing.

I agree about JADE and Detaching. Its bloody hard though. I am practicing with the mirror at the moment.  Being cool (click to insert in post) As he is no where to be seen. I also am applying the system at work. It is a  job I HATE and returned to after many years away. But this time I am detaching and not engaging with the staff drama. We shall see it is early days since my return.

As for moving on and finding a healthier mate. Yes I am considering that. I have even been on a few first dates. All lovely people but nothing permanent. I am starting to see my FOO in the patterns in my current relationship. I am a total science geek so I am also seeing the biochemical components a quite fascinating.

Anyway I agree that leaving is an option. In fact it may be the only option if he doesn't reach out in a reasonable amount of time. However, I choose to leave my heart and head open to the possibilities. I am working the program so to speak and hope i have the chance to work it with him. It wold seem only reasonable that I give it one educated chance after trying with no knowledge at all.

Thank you again for all your ideas. Keep them coming if you have any insights.
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2014, 03:59:52 PM »

Hope,

I have been with mine for six years. We have had all the dreams... .marriage kids happy life. Each year I watch her run for the hills and blame me for all her problems. I watch her drink her life away and tell me if I just did this or that life would be fine. I am currently painted black. I am on day 8 of NC. Mine is in therapy but used it as an excuse to tell me the therapist agrees I am the problem. I have been in therapy for years and have finally got my self esteem back. My bPD has cheated lied and really only needs me when things are bad for her. After six years I realize I love her but I want more. I deserve more.

I applaud you for your patience.  Just don't forget about you and your needs. I was patient too and now I lost six years of my life. I learned a lot but I missed many opportunities.
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2014, 04:08:10 PM »

To answer the original question, i was painted black for about 1.5 years.  We separated and divorced, however my dBPDh was on drugs at the time and his behavior was escalated (even the painting black).  Not on drugs, the longest it has ever lasted was about 2 months.
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2014, 05:54:08 PM »

I don't want them cast out of the human race, just that they stay away from me. How dare they enter into a relationship knowing full well that it had a 100% chance of ending in tears. If they must get into relationships, let it be with other BPD sufferers.

If they decide to admit their condition and get treatment for it, well that's a whole different ball game.

I can understand this feeling.  Even though there are some people who make a BPD r/s work, what do we really mean by "work"?  For how long?  Considering the number of dating partners most pwBPD have over the courses of their lives, simple math tells us the chances of "happily ever after" with a BPD partner is quite rare.  I commend those of us who try and try and beat the odds, but face it, there are few of us with that kind of patience, and each pwBPD is different - so it's not like usage of the tools here or rigorous therapy for the pwBPD will always bring good results.  Maybe not 100% chance of tears, but the chance is certainly much, much higher than a r/s with a non PD partner.  Negative attitudes are perfectly understandable, and I would never give anyone grief for taking such an attitude. 

I guess I can't fault a pwBPD for not being honest up front.  They have human needs, too, and if they were completely honest from the beginning, I doubt anyone would want to be with them.  I know that is true in my case.  If I knew what I was facing in the beginning, I would have said "see ya" before anything ever got off the ground.  Instead, I thought I was dealing with a woman who really wanted a stable life and had issues with depression.  So, she wasn't truthful to me going in.  I didn't know she was repeatedly hospitalized, attempted suicide twice, sought treatment for sex addiction, etc.  But I'm not bitter about that.  Can you blame her?  What is she supposed to do, quit trying and isolate herself?  Sure, I wish people would fix themselves before entering the dating world, but that almost never happens. 

What DOES bother me, is that knowing they have BPD, knowing they have lied and cheated in the past, knowing all their issues, they STILL blame their exes for thier problems.
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2014, 07:06:17 PM »

Thank you to everyone who replied. I agree that if they know it is cruel not to inform potential partner. On the other hand mine is under care of a psychiatrist, psychologist and group therapy and they still won't give him a definite diagnosis. So perhaps they don't always know themselves. I have to believe that he wants to be well and may in time recover enough to have a healthy relationship.

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« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2014, 02:23:25 PM »

I've been painted black since july and honestly I'm reaching my limit.

Ok, they've been tiny glimpses of backtoloveyouagains but nothing lasting long enough. In fact there had been so much damage that I couldn't go back to normal. So he went on painting some more.

I'm sick of the chaos.

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« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2014, 02:47:04 PM »

BPD  especially high functioning BPD is tricky. They don't think they have an issue. Many are successful, intelligent and attractive. Why would they admit they had a personality disorder when so many other things in their lives are going well? Its not going to be like, hi, my name is _____ I have BPD.

They are cruel to others and they are cruel to themselves. They can be narcissistic- and therein lies the problem; no narcissist will admit that they have any issues- to do so would mean they would have to look at themselves with a critical lens, sorry not going to happen.

The replacement will pull out the red carpet for them thinking " wow! Look what I have!" You and I will be shocked when we find out about the replacement- in my case he is 11 years older than her, goinf through his third messy divorce, not fit and not a very nice man at all. He was available- thats it.

So don't go thinking that people with BPD have any self- awareness... .If you were a cardboard box and the rain was your therapy you wouldn't last very long-
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« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2014, 03:54:48 PM »

They are cruel to others and they are cruel to themselves. They can be narcissistic- and therein lies the problem; no narcissist will admit that they have any issues- to do so would mean they would have to look at themselves with a critical lens, sorry not going to happen.

I do know that this is often the case, but really isn't always the case. My adult son was diagnosed with BPD in March of 2013, and even before his treatment and recovery, he was never cruel to others, ever. He was a very good boyfriend to his girlfriends; he treated them well but they broke up with him because of his troubles with Social Anxiety, Suicidal Ideations, Depression. He would never hurt a fly... .

My Husband, who has major BPD traits and is also very high-functioning, is also not cruel--when he gets dysregulated, his words to me can seem cruel, but they are coming from a very emotional, hurt place. When regulated, which is most of the time, he is really loving and attentive. I really don't ever think of him as "cruel". Both my son and Husband are reflective and know that they need to regulate their emotions and behaviors. Really, not all people with BPD are unable to be self-reflective... .

The replacement will pull out the red carpet for them thinking " wow! Look what I have!" You and I will be shocked when we find out about the replacement- in my case he is 11 years older than her, goinf through his third messy divorce, not fit and not a very nice man at all. He was available- thats it.

So don't go thinking that people with BPD have any self- awareness... .If you were a cardboard box and the rain was your therapy you wouldn't last very long-

Not all people with BPD leave their partners for a replacement; it's not a given that there is no hope for a good relationship. My Husband and I have been married for 40 years, and though he did have an affair many years ago, we overcame it and he did not replace me with the other woman. Even during his affair, he was torn up and couldn't give up on our marriage; it took my kicking him out of the house for him to see his mistake, but we made it and we are both actually very happily married  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I'm not sure who is the "cardboard box" here--my Husband or son, or myself for loving them--but none of us is less than other people in the Universe. We all have emotions, feelings, likes and dislikes, and we are all humans, not generalizations of a portion of humanity... .

But that is an interesting analogy nonetheless 

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« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2014, 04:28:06 PM »

Hi Rapt Reader,

You seem to have a wonderful relationship with both your husband and your son. The causes of BPD are varied and the intensity of BPD is therefore also varied. I am pleased that your relationships are doing well!

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« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2014, 04:39:50 PM »

Hi Rapt Reader,

You seem to have a wonderful relationship with both your husband and your son. The causes of BPD are varied and the intensity of BPD is therefore also varied. I am pleased that your relationships are doing well!

Thanks, pwoods  Being cool (click to insert in post)

They are going well, now that I understand the disorder and know how to communicate with them in ways that don't push every one of their buttons... .It took a while for me to learn that there were things that I was saying and doing that would escalate situations in ways that wouldn't have happened with someone else. But, I didn't mind learning the tools and techniques to help with my relationship with these people that I love  Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2014, 07:08:46 PM »

Well he has been checking out my old dating profile online. It is a closed profile that no one can see unless they know my user name (which he does) but i am notified if anyone looks at my profile. He did once after he left me and went NC in May and did again yesterday. What is that all about? Does anyone have any experience with this? I think he is still in the blaming me for everything phase but this is a little out of the ordinary.
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2014, 10:40:06 AM »

Hi Hope,

Attempting to understand the actions of your ex partner is futile. If the relationship was chaos and strange while you were with them then it wont't change when you are apart.

Many people who have BPD had a traumatic upbringing starting from a very young age. Their brains are wired differently. They react to life stressors differently. It is a disorder but what makes it hard is that we were in a relationship with them AND their disorder.

The term BPD is not a good label, Its a catch all for people who exhibit similar traits. I think the name should be changed to emotional  disorder.


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« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2014, 06:42:03 PM »

Thank you everyone. Your wisdom and kind words do soothe the confusion and sting. It is unbelievable how hard this experience is. It certainly makes me look at my own reactions more cautiously.

Has anyone ever had any luck reaching out to their partner once they were painted black and completely cut off? Stupid I know I should just work on me and forget about it.

Ok I feel better just having typed it out. Its nice to know someone out there understands.

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« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2014, 08:03:20 PM »

Has anyone ever had any luck reaching out to their partner once they were painted black and completely cut off? Stupid I know I should just work on me and forget about it.

When you are painted black... .You are black.  There is nothing you can say or do. They are spiraling down and it is best just to step back. I always thought during these times if I just did more, if I just loved them more, or if I just did this or that ... .but the problem isn't me. They are the ill ones. Nothing I do or say will ever be enough in their minds. I could bring my ex the moon and she would complain about the way it is wrapped or it left dust on the carpet. These are the hardest lessons to accept... .realizing that it has nothing to do with you and knowing they will never get better and there is nothing you can do to help them.
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« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2014, 07:12:36 AM »

My Husband, who has major BPD traits and is also very high-functioning, is also not cruel--when he gets dysregulated, his words to me can seem cruel, but they are coming from a very emotional, hurt place. When regulated, which is most of the time, he is really loving and attentive. I really don't ever think of him as "cruel". Both my son and Husband are reflective and know that they need to regulate their emotions and behaviors. Really, not all people with BPD are unable to be self-reflective... .

Not all people with BPD leave their partners for a replacement; it's not a given that there is no hope for a good relationship. My Husband and I have been married for 40 years, and though he did have an affair many years ago, we overcame it and he did not replace me with the other woman. Even during his affair, he was torn up and couldn't give up on our marriage; it took my kicking him out of the house for him to see his mistake, but we made it and we are both actually very happily married  Smiling (click to insert in post)

It's good to read positive feedback every now and then, thanks for this.

I hope you won't mind me asking a few questions to you  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Doesn't your husband ever say harsh things to you? I mean accusations, criticism, stuff like that.

Have you attended MC? Has he had therapy?

I'm impressed -or rather AMAZED- that you marriage has lasted so long. Has your husband often painted you black or left you?

What I'm trying to figure out really is "Is your BPDh as borderline as mine"?  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2014, 07:15:42 AM »

When you are painted black... .You are black.  There is nothing you can say or do. They are spiraling down and it is best just to step back. I always thought during these times if I just did more, if I just loved them more, or if I just did this or that ... .but the problem isn't me. They are the ill ones. Nothing I do or say will ever be enough in their minds. I could bring my ex the moon and she would complain about the way it is wrapped or it left dust on the carpet. These are the hardest lessons to accept... .realizing that it has nothing to do with you and knowing they will never get better and there is nothing you can do to help them.

I agree 100% with everything except with the last part. Or at least, I hope there is chance, if he seeks proper help and gets treatment for really bad situations.
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« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2014, 11:24:27 AM »

It's good to read positive feedback every now and then, thanks for this.

I hope you won't mind me asking a few questions to you  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Doesn't your husband ever say harsh things to you? I mean accusations, criticism, stuff like that.

Have you attended MC? Has he had therapy?

I'm impressed -or rather AMAZED- that you marriage has lasted so long. Has your husband often painted you black or left you?

What I'm trying to figure out really is "Is your BPDh as borderline as mine"?  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

No problem with the questions, Indyan   Smiling (click to insert in post)

1). Yeah, he does say harsh things to me, and when that happens (every now and then; more than I'd like, but less than in the past, now that I know how to communicate with him better, without pushing all of his buttons), it always comes out of left field to me. I've mentioned how I deal with those circumstances in the Willfullness and Willingness thread; I would be pleased if anyone on this Board reads this and let's me know what they think, on that thread so we don't hijack this one Being cool (click to insert in post)

2). We did attend Marriage Counseling, during the last few months of his affair (it lasted 2.5 years. I was clueless as to the true nature of it for the first year, and then just tried to "fix" it for the next year; then worked on trying to accept that I had to kick him out of the house for next 3 months; then he moved out and lived with her for the next month; and he left her and we worked on getting back together for the next 2 months when we finally renewed our vows and moved on... .).

He went alone to the T, I went alone to the T, and we both went together several times. The Therapy didn't change his mind about giving her up (I believe now that she had BPD, and he admits that as much as he didn't want to leave me, he was "addicted" to her and couldn't figure out how to leave her till I kicked him out and he "saw the light". The Therapy, however, did help me get to the point of being strong enough to kick him out--I'd felt that if I kicked him out, he would move in with her (he did), and then how would I ever be able to take him back? We had 2 little boys, and I didn't want the marriage to end... .I loved him still and saw how his being "torn between two lovers" was really tearing him apart emotionally. And I knew that he'd never stay with her; I didn't want to lose a marriage over a relationship he was having that I knew would never last.

3). He paints me black regularly, just not often. Maybe once per month at this point? But, learning how to deal with it has made it happen less often (it used to be a few times per month), and either nipped the timeframe in the bud or at least lessened it to a very short period--like hours rather than days... .

4). The only time he left me was actually that time during the affair that I kicked him out; he didn't want to leave but knew I meant business and he left reluctantly. When we were dating (we dated for a year and a half before getting engaged), we "broke up" a few times when I was frustrated with his behaviors and reluctance to commit to our relationship, but it was always me doing the breaking up. We always actually stayed together, though, and once we got engaged (we were engaged for a year before our wedding) things were perfect! I always say that he was a horrible boyfriend, but a wonderful fiancé. He agrees. And he's really a wonderful husband most of the time now... .He used to be wonderful a lot of the time, before I found this site, but now it's most of the time 

And though he's never gotten treatment for his BPD behaviors, he's seen my BPD son getting treated and being in recovery from it, and hears the 2 of us always talking about BPD and how it changes people's perceptions, making their feelings being skewed and affecting how they relate to others. My son is doing very well, is very open about his "crazy thinking" of the past, and my husband has learned a lot from those conversations. He's aware of his "fleas" from his BPD Mom (even calls them that when he notices his own "crazy thinking", and then alters his reactions), and is trying very hard to overcome them. He's learned DBT vicariously through my son and me and our purposeful discussions about BPD and how it works (we both have a motive of helping him learn and benefit from them). He's aware of his problems, and is trying to overcome them... .


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« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2014, 11:41:51 AM »

When you are painted black... .You are black.  There is nothing you can say or do. They are spiraling down and it is best just to step back. I always thought during these times if I just did more, if I just loved them more, or if I just did this or that ... .but the problem isn't me. They are the ill ones. Nothing I do or say will ever be enough in their minds. I could bring my ex the moon and she would complain about the way it is wrapped or it left dust on the carpet. These are the hardest lessons to accept... .realizing that it has nothing to do with you and knowing they will never get better and there is nothing you can do to help them.

I agree 100% with everything except with the last part. Or at least, I hope there is chance, if he seeks proper help and gets treatment for really bad situations.

They have got to want the help and have got to want to change. Mine went to therapy but when told that she had to make some changes the therapist became evil and she stopped going. The BPD has got to be a willing participant and want to make changes. If they don't then they won't ever get better.
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« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2014, 12:51:33 PM »

Excerpt
The BPD has got to be a willing participant and want to make changes. If they don't then they won't ever get better.

Yes, they have to want to get better.  They will still have set backs even if they want to get better and are doing the work.  Their feelings are much more intense and the hard work in therapy can be overwhelming for them.  My dBPDh and I have split up many times, he always comes back.  Many BPDs do move onto a replacement but many others do not. 
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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2014, 01:34:57 PM »

Well I think mine may have moved on to a replacement as the current silence is deafening. I am really missing him these days. We had a lovely life on So many levels.  It's sad really to see that they can't just relax and enjoy the happiness. He is missing out on so much. Sorry to go on about it but no one out here in the real world understands. 
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« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2014, 02:26:19 PM »

I don't think that they can enjoy the happiness because it is based on a fantasy. He didn't fall in love with you, he fell in love with a perfect person that he created in his head. When he realised you were a real human being, who is not perfect, his fantasy crumbled and you got the blame for not playing your impossible part.

Well I think mine may have moved on to a replacement as the current silence is deafening. I am really missing him these days. We had a lovely life on So many levels.  It's sad really to see that they can't just relax and enjoy the happiness. He is missing out on so much. Sorry to go on about it but no one out here in the real world understands. 

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« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2014, 03:57:48 PM »

I don't think that they can enjoy the happiness because it is based on a fantasy. He didn't fall in love with you, he fell in love with a perfect person that he created in his head. When he realised you were a real human being, who is not perfect, his fantasy crumbled and you got the blame for not playing your impossible part.

It's weird because when I told uBPDbf about BPD, he could have been shocked about a mountain of things but there's ONE thing that he kept repeating, even months later, it was "You said that the beautiful things I did were out of illness, not love." He just couldn't accept that part. Part btw I didn't remember reading to him but anyway.

I think to him it meant that the ONLY beautiful things in his life were "fake", and of course it's unbearable.

I don't fully agree with the above statement. I mean, they loved us sincerely but didn't feel they deserved the love... .

I used to be able to joke about the yo-yo some months ago, telling him "I feel you love me less today... .", but after a while he asked me to stop, he said it made him unconfortable.
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« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2014, 05:14:19 PM »

Yes, they did love us sincerely, no doubt about that and they loved with a intensity that most of us have not experienced since the love of our parents. That's why it is so hard for us to let go. Most of us have never had love showered on us with that intensity in a relationship. Who couldn't want more of that? Who couldn't crave that like a drug when it was taken away? I'm not sure that they felt that they didn't deserve the love. They were loving a person that they had created in their mind and when they realised that their creation and us were different people it was game over.

I don't fully agree with the above statement. I mean, they loved us sincerely but didn't feel they deserved the love... .

I used to be able to joke about the yo-yo some months ago, telling him "I feel you love me less today... .", but after a while he asked me to stop, he said it made him unconfortable.

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« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2014, 05:57:15 PM »

All of your comments make sense in their own ways.

Mine told me I should psychically know what he needed at all times without him telling me. I of course told him that was impossible. He expected me to be perfect and never make mistakes but he was allowed to do anything and be forgiven. He wanted his cake and to eat it too.

But i miss him. I do. Our date night was fridays. Fridays are hard. Today is friday. I have to go to a birthday party and I really don't want to go but I will. I just want to call my ex fiance and tell him how loved and missed he is and talk him into coming over and going walking in the rain under our big umbrella. Stupid I know. Hopeless I know. Sigh.

I booked an apt with a psych who specializes in BPD and BP for tomorrow morning. I want to work on myself and get unstuck in this grieving. I also want to make sure it isn't me. IF I have these tendencies I want to get better. I would never want to do any of the things he did to me to someone else. I really hope it helps.

Somehow no matter what happens I want to be better for this experience.
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« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2014, 06:45:05 PM »

hope, with your attitude you WILL get better!

Your brain was re-wired because of the exBPD. The massive missing him IS because of you but a good T will really help you, its not a quick process but in the end you will be learn better ways of approaching relationships.

All of your comments make sense in their own ways.

Mine told me I should psychically know what he needed at all times without him telling me. I of course told him that was impossible. He expected me to be perfect and never make mistakes but he was allowed to do anything and be forgiven. He wanted his cake and to eat it too.

But i miss him. I do. Our date night was fridays. Fridays are hard. Today is friday. I have to go to a birthday party and I really don't want to go but I will. I just want to call my ex fiance and tell him how loved and missed he is and talk him into coming over and going walking in the rain under our big umbrella. Stupid I know. Hopeless I know. Sigh.

I booked an apt with a psych who specializes in BPD and BP for tomorrow morning. I want to work on myself and get unstuck in this grieving. I also want to make sure it isn't me. IF I have these tendencies I want to get better. I would never want to do any of the things he did to me to someone else. I really hope it helps.

Somehow no matter what happens I want to be better for this experience.

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« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2014, 08:04:34 PM »

Thank you. I am really excited to get started. I welcome any ideas of where to start. I just want to be happy again and become my best me.
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« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2014, 07:27:35 AM »

The massive missing him IS because of you but a good T will really help you, its not a quick process but in the end you will be learn better ways of approaching relationships.

I personnally disagree with the stuff about "being hooked" or "co-dependancy" etc.

I was dumped in July with no warning, as he just lost his mind. I had to cope with him being away, going on hols alone with the kids, telling my parents (who were going to meet him for the 1st time) that we weren't coming visit together. And then, while mourning my relationship with him, find a nanny for my baby, a job, contact the social services etc. He has tried to reverse the situation several times (saying I AM the one who kicked him out of the house and went on hols on my own - whatever).

All this to say: feeling sad, missing the person that we love is a NORMAL BEHAVIOUR.

It's the reverse which is crazy. I loved him deeply and sincerely and I DO miss that man. I DO wish he'll get better, and I still have a bit of hope that the good side of him will grow positively. But maybe I say this because he told me many, many, times that he was aware of his "problem" and wanted things to change. I know he hasn't found the help he needs yet, and I hope he will. But, for his defense, I know he has seeked this help and still is.

Missing someone, mourning the relationship with that person, wanting to help them etc, has a name, it's called: LOVE. I'll add another ingredient to my pain: the pain inflicted by a mentally ill person. Because their behaviour is so unpredictable, that every reaction (good or bad) comes as a shock to us.

I refuse to name my love anything else but true love. It's NOT dependancy and all that cr*p. I know very well I'm not more dependant than anyone else. I used to be married to a soldier who was away weeks on, and never complained about it.

No, I miss the man I love, because he is ill and has forgotten how precious our r/s and our family life were.
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« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2014, 07:35:46 AM »

I booked an apt with a psych who specializes in BPD and BP for tomorrow morning. I want to work on myself and get unstuck in this grieving. I also want to make sure it isn't me. IF I have these tendencies I want to get better. I would never want to do any of the things he did to me to someone else. I really hope it helps.

Somehow no matter what happens I want to be better for this experience.

I did that too, two weeks ago. I went to see THE BPD specialist in my country as he was organizing a group therapy for BPD relatives.

It turned out that I was the only one there, and had the T all for myself. I can't describe how much good it did to me. Feeling understood, hearing that I wasn't the crazy one (even if I knew that it was good to hear it Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)), having someone who explained why he behaved the way he did, and what I did that triggered his reactions. Talking about ME, that REALLY felt good. It felt like the therapist opened a door in me, as if suddenly there was light at the end of the tunnel.

It's this man that BPD bf or s2bxbf is seeing on Monday, and I do hope he'll find some kind of key to all his locked up doors too.

I wish you the best with your therapy. And please do bear something in mind: time is different for pwBPD than it is to us. Use this time to build a strong self-esteem and pick up the pieces, feel good about yourself, and then you'll see what happens with the BPDso.
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« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2014, 08:13:03 AM »

The massive missing him IS because of you but a good T will really help you, its not a quick process but in the end you will be learn better ways of approaching relationships.

I personnally disagree with the stuff about "being hooked" or "co-dependancy" etc.

I was dumped in July with no warning, as he just lost his mind. I had to cope with him being away, going on hols alone with the kids, telling my parents (who were going to meet him for the 1st time) that we weren't coming visit together. And then, while mourning my relationship with him, find a nanny for my baby, a job, contact the social services etc. He has tried to reverse the situation several times (saying I AM the one who kicked him out of the house and went on hols on my own - whatever).

All this to say: feeling sad, missing the person that we love is a NORMAL BEHAVIOUR.

It's the reverse which is crazy. I loved him deeply and sincerely and I DO miss that man. I DO wish he'll get better, and I still have a bit of hope that the good side of him will grow positively. But maybe I say this because he told me many, many, times that he was aware of his "problem" and wanted things to change. I know he hasn't found the help he needs yet, and I hope he will. But, for his defense, I know he has seeked this help and still is.

Missing someone, mourning the relationship with that person, wanting to help them etc, has a name, it's called: LOVE. I'll add another ingredient to my pain: the pain inflicted by a mentally ill person. Because their behaviour is so unpredictable, that every reaction (good or bad) comes as a shock to us.

I refuse to name my love anything else but true love. It's NOT dependancy and all that cr*p. I know very well I'm not more dependant than anyone else. I used to be married to a soldier who was away weeks on, and never complained about it.

No, I miss the man I love, because he is ill and has forgotten how precious our r/s and our family life were.

I can see your point Indyan but I disagree with you.  There is no doubt I loved my BPD and wanted to help her. The problem with mine was she didn't think she had a problem. She thought it was all me. Granted I brought my own issues to the relationship but I didn't run all the way across the US and marry a stranger because I was mad at her. I don't drink 24/7 to forget my problems. I don't didn't tell her I loved her and then have some else on the side. I never belittled her or put her down for sport. But she did to me. The fact is when I learned all of this about her I stayed. Why?  I would have never have put up with this from anyone else but from her I did. So I do agree that I was "hooked" or "co dependent"  but being hooked or co dependent are my issues not hers.
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« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2014, 09:55:30 AM »

Indyan

THANK YOU!

I keep struggling with the code pendant vs love thing. There has to be a spectrum I suppose. I too understand co-dependency well. I definitely was enmeshed with my ex-husband a decade ago. But years of therapy for me has given me better (not perfect) boundaries. I do love my ex fiancé. I miss him. I would glove to help him but not at further cost to myself. He has to walk that journey fir himself. I was only ever able to walk beside him.

Could you explain the time passes differently for them ? I just want to understand it better.
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« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2014, 02:08:54 PM »

The problem with mine was she didn't think she had a problem. She thought it was all me.

She NEVER showed a temporary glimpse of moment of insight?

I thought they all did, every now and then. 

That must have been really hard then. The thing that kept me going (and still does a little today) is that at times he admitted EVERYTHING: he apologized, he said he had a big problem, that yes BPD did sound like him, that he wanted to change his ways to become a good parent etc.

And he never said all this to make me stay, never. He usually said this when we were really close, as a confidence.
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« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2014, 02:13:45 PM »

Ok so the counsellor seems good. I set goals of understanding my own part in the dynamic, learning about DBT and regulating my own emotions better. HE is a specialist in BPD and BP so hopefully it will be productive. I have this pit of my stomach fear that I will be the one labeled BPD now. I know thats paranoid and I know that if I am all the more reason to attend counselling. I just like everyone else in life don't want to be labelled. I would like to be "perfect" Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) what a joke. Oh well if I have those tendencies all the more reason to work on them. If its just a matter of having picked up some bad behaviours from my ex fiancé then thats a good reason to work through them too. Man I hope I am doing the right thing.

Has anyone here don't counselling on their own and found that they were nervous of being labelled? Has anyone got any suggestions? I like the counsellor and will go once a week until further notice but I would really like to think that I am not the "crazy" one. Maybe I am who knows. Sigh I am so confused.
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« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2014, 02:15:29 PM »

"And he never said all this to make me stay, never. He usually said this when we were really close, as a confidence.

"


Yup mine was like this too. He felt safe and close I think and then would tell me how he needed help and wanted to be happy.
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« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2014, 02:18:22 PM »

Could you explain the time passes differently for them ? I just want to understand it better.

Well from my experience (rather short but intense) and from sharing other people's experiences, I realized that yes, our perception regarding time differs from theirs. I also read a few times that "they lose track of time when they are not well, when they feel empty inside."

I mean, if, say, you were angry at your BF and refused to talk to him, a few days would seem eternity.

But to them it looks like time flies... .days, even weeks of chaos and confusion and they survive in there, while we keep walking in circles like a lion in his cage.

I know a 60 yr old man whose 60 yr old gf goes silent every few months for about 2 months. Nothing, no phone call, no mail, no nothing. And of course it drives him crazy. Then suddenly she calls him, crying, telling him she can't live without him blah blah blah. As if 2 months later she was in exactly the same state.

Here I kind of experience the same thing. He's been painting me black on and off for 3 months, and I could thing is doing great without me. But I know he isn't. His dad told me today on the phone that "he was feeling really really bad" (not sure whether it means anger or sadness, I prefered not to ask as I refuse to care for his moods anymore).

I think this stretched out time comes from the slowness of their emotions to settle, compared to ours.

Where it would take 2 days for us to feel a lot better, it takes them 2 months!
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« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2014, 02:23:26 PM »

Has anyone here don't counselling on their own and found that they were nervous of being labelled? Has anyone got any suggestions? I like the counsellor and will go once a week until further notice but I would really like to think that I am not the "crazy" one. Maybe I am who knows. Sigh I am so confused.

I think it's a normal reaction after living with someone with BPD/NPD. THEY keep telling us we are to blame and basically accuse us of every trait they have. Mine even said I was NP... .what a joke. His ex too was NP... .

My T probably knew this as, not only he confirmed BPD bf was BPD, but added that I didn't have a disorder too.

If you doubt your sanity (at least on an emotionnal level), it shows how much damage all this has done to you and that it really is the time to take care of yourself.
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« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2014, 05:03:45 PM »

The problem with mine was she didn't think she had a problem. She thought it was all me.

She NEVER showed a temporary glimpse of moment of insight?

I thought they all did, every now and then. 

That must have been really hard then. The thing that kept me going (and still does a little today) is that at times he admitted EVERYTHING: he apologized, he said he had a big problem, that yes BPD did sound like him, that he wanted to change his ways to become a good parent etc.

And he never said all this to make me stay, never. He usually said this when we were really close, as a confidence.

I was always to blame in the relationship no matter what. Never got an apology that was sincere or meant anything. Actually I found out what she apologized for were actually lies in the first place. But I never got an apology for the initial lie. She would reason it out in her warpped mind that the lie was the truth and I was to blame. Even when my mom had a heart attack and I was at the hospital. I spent too much time at the hospital so she was forced to get attention from someone else. She is BPD and probably a sociopath too.
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« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2014, 05:35:02 PM »

My ex was an expert (so she thought) at diagnosing the mental condition of everyone but herself! She actually had a degree in psych, pity she couldn't examine herself. She went through therapists like crazy, then stopped, went off meds and started going to a homeopath!

Has anyone here don't counselling on their own and found that they were nervous of being labelled? Has anyone got any suggestions? I like the counsellor and will go once a week until further notice but I would really like to think that I am not the "crazy" one. Maybe I am who knows. Sigh I am so confused.

I think it's a normal reaction after living with someone with BPD/NPD. THEY keep telling us we are to blame and basically accuse us of every trait they have. Mine even said I was NP... .what a joke. His ex too was NP... .

My T probably knew this as, not only he confirmed BPD bf was BPD, but added that I didn't have a disorder too.

If you doubt your sanity (at least on an emotionnal level), it shows how much damage all this has done to you and that it really is the time to take care of yourself.

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« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2014, 06:37:26 PM »

Ok so the counsellor seems good. I set goals of understanding my own part in the dynamic, learning about DBT and regulating my own emotions better. HE is a specialist in BPD and BP so hopefully it will be productive. I have this pit of my stomach fear that I will be the one labeled BPD now. I know thats paranoid and I know that if I am all the more reason to attend counselling. I just like everyone else in life don't want to be labelled. I would like to be "perfect" Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) what a joke. Oh well if I have those tendencies all the more reason to work on them. If its just a matter of having picked up some bad behaviours from my ex fiancé then thats a good reason to work through them too. Man I hope I am doing the right thing.

Has anyone here don't counselling on their own and found that they were nervous of being labelled? Has anyone got any suggestions? I like the counsellor and will go once a week until further notice but I would really like to think that I am not the "crazy" one. Maybe I am who knows. Sigh I am so confused.

I was  nervous when I started therapy. It think that is normal. I think there is a big fear about being labeled or maybe finding out that you are the crazy one. I talked about that a lot in therapy. I was told that the fact that I sought out help and am able to look at myself and my behavior shows that I am in fact not crazy. Sitting on that couch and revealing the most personal things about yourself and facing those things yourself is brave and courageous.  It takes guts to admit you need help and face your problems. Anyone can run away.  So no you have nothing to fear... .You are not crazy. You are courageous and strong.
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« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2014, 02:28:06 PM »

Well the 2nd therapy session went well. We discussed anger and why I feel the need to not be angry. I guess its because I was raised with lots of anger (from my father) and a peace keeping mother. So I too have become a peace keeper.

I am allowed to have needs and emotions and express them.

What do ya know. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) I am allowed to be treated well and have my needs met. Funny how that worked out.

Ok well today is a gorgeous day and fro some reason I am super sad. I miss him. I really do. I want to call him but there is no point. He has to get well first. I see no real evidence of improvement from his camp. I have to get well. I have only taken the very first baby steps. SO NC continues. Sigh.
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