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Author Topic: She does not want to go back to the T  (Read 555 times)
dog_star

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« on: September 12, 2014, 10:47:28 PM »

So after a week of conflict she has now informed me that she no longer wants to go to see her T. I have been having some side conversations with the T and know that she is putting more "pressure" on my dBPDw to accept her diagnosis (she does not believe that she has BPD). My wife asked me if I had anything to say to this. I said that I am not happy about it and that I want her to go see the T. She is now talking about the T in negative ways and says that she needs to reflect on their rs. So she wants to take some time off and work on herself. 

Also, reverent is that over the weekend in a moment of desperation/frustration/depression I said that if she did get help I would devoice her. I want to believe that I have the courage to follow though with this if I have to.

Suggestions on what I can do about this. I am thinking that I cannot make her go. And any more attempts by me to do so will probability just crystallize her rejection of the T. I have said what I feel and want from a calm place today. What else can I do?
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2014, 06:14:56 PM »

Also, reverent is that over the weekend in a moment of desperation/frustration/depression I said that if she did get help I would devoice her. I want to believe that I have the courage to follow though with this if I have to.

Is that true, dog star? Would you actually divorce her if she takes some time off to reconsider Therapy? Is there a time period here where she needs to go back? Could she take a week? 2 weeks? One month? If she had a little time to think about it, and then decided to go back after any of those timeframes, would you then reconsider divorcing her? You have a child, right? Does your child figure in, with this ultimatum?


Suggestions on what I can do about this. I am thinking that I cannot make her go. And any more attempts by me to do so will probability just crystallize her rejection of the T. I have said what I feel and want from a calm place today. What else can I do?

It's true you cannot make her go. Attempts by you to try to force her to go will probably make her dig in with her rejection of her Therapist. Something you can do is check out these articles: Article 6: Helping a Loved-One with Borderline Personality Disorder Seek Treatment; Article 5: Supporting a Loved-One with Borderline Personality Disorder; Article 7: Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder and Article 3: Borderline Personality Disorder - A Clinical Perspective.

I'm assuming that at one time you loved her very much, wanted to marry her and have a child? She may still be the person you loved, somewhere inside of all her symptoms and behaviors. I'm not saying that is so; I'm just saying that it might be worth it--to you and your family--to read some of what is in those articles (if you haven't already) to see if anything there could help you with this problem 

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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2014, 01:25:35 AM »

Hi Rapt Reader - thanks for taking the time to reply. Also, thanks for providing the links. I have read some of them but not all.

Is that true, dog star? Would you actually divorce her if she takes some time off to reconsider Therapy? Is there a time period here where she needs to go back? Could she take a week? 2 weeks? One month? If she had a little time to think about it, and then decided to go back after any of those timeframes, would you then reconsider divorcing her? You have a child, right? Does your child figure in, with this ultimatum?

I am not going to divorce if she dose not go to the appointment on Sunday. I will give it a little more time; I think weeks more. . . I need to make some cut off date, but I am not sure what that is going to be. I do not wish to divorce her.

Thoughts of the child have played a big role in my thinking. It is one to have her rage let out on me in isolation, but then my son is witness to it as well. What is this teaching him?

He is not a target of it near as much as I am but he still finds himself awash in her anger. If I try to interject then, more often then not, the rage turns onto me for inappropriately butting in. If I was to try and remove him from the house I know it would get psychical. I feel so bad.  :'(

He recognizes the hurt that the rage causes me and will some times try and use it against me. "If you do not do what I want then I will tell mom and she will be so mad at you." I fear that this kinda thing is only going to get worse with time.

As I am writing this I am realizing that I desperately need some sort of boundary that I can fall back on in theses situations. But what?

I'm assuming that at one time you loved her very much, wanted to marry her and have a child? She may still be the person you loved, somewhere inside of all her symptoms and behaviors. I'm not saying that is so; I'm just saying that it might be worth it--to you and your family--to read some of what is in those articles (if you haven't already) to see if anything there could help you with this problem

I do love her still. And I want to believe that she can get better. I want to help her. I do not blame her for her BPD actions. I just can not keep going like this. She is angry at me nowadays most of the time. She will go for two or three days, then I will get a night off and maybe the next day, then she will pop again and the cycle will repeat. On the bad days I get off work come home test the waters. Hang out until the abusive language starts then I go: walk the dog for an hour, go to the store and shop for nothing, drive around town, come home and hope that she is in silent treatment mode and sleep on the couch. Get up in the morning take a quick shower and get out of there with out breakfast or coffee, go to work (typically she is in hurtful language mode again in the morning) - repeat. It is no way to live for me. And my son is exposed to all of it. And imo it is getting worse with time. I know now that for a long time I feed into the abuse cycle. Six months ago BPD became part of my vocabulary I have been using tools from my T as well as what I read on the web. I feel better inside, e.g. I no longer think that I deserve the abuse. A rationalization that I used to have. Also, I try to validated and not argue back. I try to set boundaries. I thought once we got the diagnosis in the spring things would start to turn around a little, but no. Nothing. I just don't know what to do.
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2014, 09:53:46 PM »

 

dog_star,

Any thoughts of "forcing" a pwBPD to do just about anything... .especially T... .are likely to be high frustration items.

You will expend a lot of energy "forcing"... .and most likely not get much in the way of results.

Also... forcing is a very direct way of dealing with it.  that can be scary for pwBPD.

So... when she says she doesn't want to go back... .remember to validate the emotions behind not wanting to go back... .don't directly argue.  Yes you will... no I won't... .is not a good thing to do with pwBPD.

"help me understand why you don't want to go back"

If this T is bad... .then go find another one... .

If this one is a quack... then get one with a PhD... .more quals. 

I would also take this opportunity to get more "hard" testing done... .such as MMPI2.  Offer it as a way to "prove" she is right.

She has taken some important steps... .don't derail this because she wants to take 1 step back... .

Thoughts
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2014, 12:12:03 AM »

formflier

She did take the The Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV Axis II Personality. which according to my research at the time was close to the gold standard in testing. there was one better that just tested for BPD. but I can not recall it. I looked for it just now on BPD family (I think I read the testing stuff here in an article) but I cound not find it.

anyway I like your suggestion of suggesting that more testing is a way to prove her right. it may just may work... .or not Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

she has made it clear why she does not want to go back to the T. it is because the T "inappropriately" confronted her on having BPD. "I DO NOT HAVE BPD!" she has now split the T. idk I think it may be dead with that one.

but going to another T that may be a good idea. I have been telling myself that it was now or never for her to start healing. It took so long for the T to identify her BPD - like two years long. my wife had originally wanted us to go so I could work on my problems in the relationship. anyway part of my "now or never" thinking is that it well take forever to get the idea of BPD across to another new T. but I guess that is not really true. I now know and can just speak my mind. also maybe I could get the test results sent over with her permission some how. maybe like u suggest, "so the new T can see how bad the testing was done." hahaha


I have been trying to validate for almost 9  months now. I was horrible at it at first. I am now better but I still stumble all the time. but I try. and I try not to argue back.
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2014, 12:49:22 AM »

also right now she is on the positive side of things. keeps talking about how she love me and the family. and wants to make it work. this is a stonger up part of the up cycle then normal.

she is making suggestions on how we could improve our relationship. do nice things for each other. go on a bike ride etc.
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2014, 05:34:01 AM »

she is making suggestions on how we could improve our relationship. do nice things for each other. go on a bike ride etc.

And so you guys need "help" to improve the r/s... .that gets you in some structured MC ( marriage counseling).

Most MCs want each person to have their own T to work on individual issues.

I would suggest that you submit yourself to the testing to make it "fair".  Most people don't like to be at "fault"... .pwBPD usually like it even less.  So they will expose themselves to minimal chances of that... .like getting tested.

So... .focus on the good in this... .she did get tested... .she did go to a T some.

And listen... .even "nons" switch Ts.

My wife walked out (a couple times) on the MC that identified "BPD traits" in her.  The last time she said she would never come back... .and she hasn't.  I've gently pushed a couple times... .not going to happen.

A few times a radically different story was told by my wife about what this counselor said or why my wife walked out... .I would try to validate the frustration... .and probe some to see if she really believes the new version.  She does... .but I didn't change my version.  Big source of conflict... .

The idea that we could go back to that MC to help us "remember"... .no chance... .she remembers just fine and doesn't need to go.

This situation most likely would have turned nuclear if I had pushed hard... .that would not help anyone.

Dog Star,

I see a similar thing going on with you if you push to go back to this T... .nuclear.

If you can be part of a solution that gets your wife on your side going to another T... .that is a step forward.

MMPI is a great all around test to get done.  You also want to "rule out" other issues that may be co morbid.

Maybe next round of testing you "rule out" BPD.  That may be a good way to introduce it to your wife. 

And it's true... .not all Ts get it right.  Ruling something out is usually a higher standard that the first diagnosis... .so the agreement is to go to a Psychologist or a Psychiatrist to "rule out" BPD... .you should have an intense battery of testing from this effort
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2014, 11:58:08 AM »

all good points.

I am going to suggest that we set up something up with another T and/or doc. It will be interesting to she how she handles that if nothing else. From what I read she probably truly believes that she is not ill. therefor why not go.

in the last round of testing we both got tested at the same time so that it would be fair. while there is no guarantee that she would take the results of the next round seriously. I do think it would be worth trying.

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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2014, 12:10:40 PM »

all good points.

I am going to suggest that we set up something up with another T and/or doc. It will be interesting to she how she handles that if nothing else. From what I read she probably truly believes that she is not ill. therefor why not go.

in the last round of testing we both got tested at the same time so that it would be fair. while there is no guarantee that she would take the results of the next round seriously. I do think it would be worth trying.

Good that you both got tested... .and that could be a good thing to keep going in the future... .

You are going for further updates... .so hopefully she can come along.

Make sure if/when you use the "she is well... .so why shouldn't she go... ." line of thinking... .you have to be calm and even.  If there is a hint of smartass in there... it could blow up.

Does your wife have any paranoia in her? 

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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2014, 02:55:20 PM »

ya she can be paranoid. she was sure that the T and I were working against her. which is kinda true. but we were not conspiring against her we were trying to help her. the other place it comes up a lot is cheating. this last big meltdown was started becouse she had a dream I was with her best friend.
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2014, 03:38:19 PM »

ya she can be paranoid. she was sure that the T and I were working against her. which is kinda true. but we were not conspiring against her we were trying to help her. the other place it comes up a lot is cheating. this last big meltdown was started becouse she had a dream I was with her best friend.

Can you start a new thread and describe the last big meltdown... and ask for ideas on how to handle that better the next time. 

Great subject for you and many others... but let's not clog up this thread with that... .we'll keep focused on how to get her into some sort of testing/therapeutic situation on here.
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2014, 12:21:24 AM »

wow!

I came home tonight and my wife is looking at a web site for a, I am not sure what to call it, but it is treatment facility in town. the type of place where you go and stay for a few days. they are not realy BPD focused - I think they are mostly trying to heal all kinds of trauma, which she has a ton of in the past. it is some place that her T recommend a month or so ago. I said nothing when I saw it. then she tells me she has made an appointment to go back and see the T tomorrow! wow I was shocked. but I keep cool and tried to be neutral. not too enthusiastic.

her mood is depressed however, no smiles, not much anger. just a little at the dog. I want to hope that something is finally going to break loose. she has to know that the T is going to want to talk about BPD. but I am trying very hard to be realistic. nothing may come of it. but what a good sign and only 10 days has passed since the last blowout over her diagnosis.

I an just going to try and be supportive and see what happens... .
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2014, 05:59:12 AM »

  she has made an appointment to go back and see the T tomorrow! wow I was shocked. but I keep cool and tried to be neutral. not too enthusiastic.

I an just going to try and be supportive and see what happens... .

I think you are on the right track. 

Try to imagine how you would feel... .if it was you contemplating going into a facility like that.

I would try to set up validation ... .  "just a touch"... .unless she brings it up I wouldn't directly deal with the facility or T appointments. 

Fingers crossed for you and your family... this is a good thing.

Your wife seems to be preparing to make some big steps to improve the r/s... .  What steps are you preparing to take?
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2014, 09:55:41 PM »

Well some progress. She admitted tonight that she has an anger problem. This is nothing new she will do this every few months. Then she says that she does not fully accept the diagnosis of BPD. That is a lot better then, "No I don't have BPD!"

We will see. As for me well:

What am I going to do? Keep working on my BPD skills and on my issues as well. I start with a new T in a few weeks.

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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2014, 10:14:29 PM »

Well some progress. She admitted tonight that she has an anger problem. This is nothing new she will do this every few months. Then she says that she does not fully accept the diagnosis of BPD. That is a lot better then, "No I don't have BPD!"

We will see. As for me well:

What am I going to do? Keep working on my BPD skills and on my issues as well. I start with a new T in a few weeks.


This is all a very good beginning... .In fact, a huge hurdle for your wife to have jumped.

I'm glad she came around to the idea of Therapy. Sometimes it just takes a little while for our BPD loved ones to get used to the idea, or to see merit in it.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2014, 01:09:26 AM »

Well some progress. She admitted tonight that she has an anger problem. This is nothing new she will do this every few months. Then she says that she does not fully accept the diagnosis of BPD. That is a lot better then, "No I don't have BPD!"

I'm guessing that what you really want anyway is some change in her behaviors (like angry raging), right?

Having a diagnosis can help this some. Some T choose not to share the diagnosis with the patient because treatment can go better without it.

Fighting with her over whether she has BPD or not sure won't help anything!

Many (if not most) of the things which do help a pwPBD cope better, or help cure BPD, don't require talking about BPD at all. I know that even after I thought my wife was cured of BPD, she still didn't like talking about it, and didn't really believe that she actually had BPD.

She did discover that she had anger issues, and did realize that she was behaving abusively toward me. That was enough for her to start getting better.

I know I found that the more I deal with specific behavior (both mine and hers), the easier it was to make progress.
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« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2014, 07:28:33 AM »

That is very good news, dog.  I know my dBPDh threatens to quit therapy a lot, whenever it gets to be hard work.  However, the bond he has with his therapist keeps him going back. Hopefully, her T worked hard to forge a bond before giving the diagnosis.  My dBPDh needs his T, it really seems like he is being reparented.
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« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2014, 03:22:02 PM »

I know I found that the more I deal with specific behavior (both mine and hers), the easier it was to make progress.

HUGE point... .!

In fact... .I had a bit of a victory today in MC. 

The basis of our MC is to help us be more empathetic with each other.

How does your partner feel when ... .?  Or how does he/she feel when I do xyz... .

A big thing for me was "accusations without a basis in fact... ."  (sounds very clinical... .)... .but before I knew about BPD I would JADE and try to explain the facts. 

And the situation got worse.

As our r/s has improved and we can each see more of our part... .she has acknowledged several times how frustrating it must have been for me to be accused of things I didn't do.  And she has clearly acknowledged she did that... .and expressed sorrow over it. 

So... she has moved to more talking to me about her feelings... .and being clear that things are what she feels... .vice what she "knows"... .

And I have tried to focus more on feelings as well... .

For a long time I have stayed away from "why" she would do these things... .just that they bothered me... .

She has done similar things... .been able to express what she would like me to do... .rather that putting out some sort of evil intent behind why I didn't do things.

Long winded way of saying... .focus on behavior... . 

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« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2014, 11:47:38 PM »

hay that sounds great formflier. I am happy that you are making progress.

gray kitty and formflier thanks for the suggestion. I think that I am still JADEing from time to time. i used to do it all the time in a big way. it is just so hard not to do it. I have cut it out a lot but I still find myself doing it almost subconsciously. so that is going to be my focus behavior for the next week -

to try and be aware of it and reduce it even more.
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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2014, 01:10:40 AM »

Yeah, it is really tough not to JADE about stuff. I soo want to do it at times, even now.

I've found that I would start, see it wasn't working, then at least stop myself before I spit out the next half a dozen sentences of more JADEing Smiling (click to insert in post) Practice helps, and with a pwBPD you will get plenty!

The good news is that it pretty much never helps to do it, whether with a pwBPD or somebody normal and healthy. I highly recommend breaking the habit as much as you can.
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