I lie to my BPDw all the time

[waverider]

Ok, here is my take. Stop lying. You wouldn't like it if they lied to you. Think about this, you are no better than them if that's what your doing. And if you feel the need to lie just to keep peace then you're the one that needs help not them. When it gets to the point where you actually have to be dishonest then I think it's time to leave.

This is the goal you aim to get to. Problem is we have often dug ourselves a hole so deep that we have to work our way of it one small step at a time.

you're the one that needs help not them

This is why it all starts with us.

I may omit a fair but, but any "white lies" would not be any more than in a normal RS now. Even then I try to avoid those, mainly because I am diplomatically better overall that I ever was before I had to deal with BPD.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[hurting300]

I can't say I lied to mine. She lied to me and it hurt. But I'm glad it's over.

[startrekuser]

Ok, here is my take. Stop lying. You wouldn't like it if they lied to you. Think about this, you are no better than them if that's what your doing. And if you feel the need to lie just to keep peace then you're the one that needs help not them. When it gets to the point where you actually have to be dishonest then I think it's time to leave.

It's been that way for years.

[startrekuser]

I'll give you an example of my situation.  Right now she is denying intimacy from me.   She wants me to empathize with her that my family hurt her so much and they were horrible to her and I was horrible to her, etc.  If I don't do that, no touching whatsoever.  It's not as if there's much touching from her anyway.  I don't agree with her at all.  I think that what my family has done and what I've done wrong is minimal at best and that she bears a lot (all of it, essentially) for our poor relationship and her poor relationship with my family.  So what I do?  No amount of validation or diplomacy will help the situation.

[waverider]

I'll give you an example of my situation.  Right now she is denying intimacy from me.   She wants me to empathize with her that my family hurt her so much and they were horrible to her and I was horrible to her, etc.  If I don't do that, no touching whatsoever.  It's not as if there's much touching from her anyway.  I don't agree with her at all.  I think that what my family has done and what I've done wrong is minimal at best and that she bears a lot (all of it, essentially) for our poor relationship and her poor relationship with my family.  So what I do?  No amount of validation or diplomacy will help the situation.

You wait it out, you can't make her do anything, and you cant validate the invalid. I assume you have done the reasonable attempts at supporting  and validating how she feels without agreeing that you are of the same opinion. Your reality is your reality and you shouldn't be coerced from it. She is entitled to sulk if she wants, that is her choice.

[Moselle]

I'll give you an example of my situation.  Right now she is denying intimacy from me.   She wants me to empathize with her that my family hurt her so much and they were horrible to her and I was horrible to her, etc.  If I don't do that, no touching whatsoever.  It's not as if there's much touching from her anyway.  I don't agree with her at all.  I think that what my family has done and what I've done wrong is minimal at best and that she bears a lot (all of it, essentially) for our poor relationship and her poor relationship with my family.  So what I do?  No amount of validation or diplomacy will help the situation.

You wait it out, you can't make her do anything, and you cant validate the invalid. I assume you have done the reasonable attempts at supporting  and validating how she feels without agreeing that you are of the same opinion. Your reality is your reality and you shouldn't be coerced from it. She is entitled to sulk if she wants, that is her choice.

I agree 100% with waverider, if you can nullify this one by not playing the trading game, it removes a big arrow in the manipulation quiver.

[startrekuser]

I'll give you an example of my situation.  Right now she is denying intimacy from me.   She wants me to empathize with her that my family hurt her so much and they were horrible to her and I was horrible to her, etc.  If I don't do that, no touching whatsoever.  It's not as if there's much touching from her anyway.  I don't agree with her at all.  I think that what my family has done and what I've done wrong is minimal at best and that she bears a lot (all of it, essentially) for our poor relationship and her poor relationship with my family.  So what I do?  No amount of validation or diplomacy will help the situation.

You wait it out, you can't make her do anything, and you cant validate the invalid. I assume you have done the reasonable attempts at supporting  and validating how she feels without agreeing that you are of the same opinion. Your reality is your reality and you shouldn't be coerced from it. She is entitled to sulk if she wants, that is her choice.

I agree 100% with waverider, if you can nullify this one by not playing the trading game, it removes a big arrow in the manipulation quiver.

I agree with you, but if I don't agree with her opinion, she will make me suffer and I then I give in.  I can't handle the suffering.

[Moselle]

I'll give you an example of my situation.  Right now she is denying intimacy from me.   She wants me to empathize with her that my family hurt her so much and they were horrible to her and I was horrible to her, etc.  If I don't do that, no touching whatsoever.  It's not as if there's much touching from her anyway.  I don't agree with her at all.  I think that what my family has done and what I've done wrong is minimal at best and that she bears a lot (all of it, essentially) for our poor relationship and her poor relationship with my family.  So what I do?  No amount of validation or diplomacy will help the situation.

You wait it out, you can't make her do anything, and you cant validate the invalid. I assume you have done the reasonable attempts at supporting  and validating how she feels without agreeing that you are of the same opinion. Your reality is your reality and you shouldn't be coerced from it. She is entitled to sulk if she wants, that is her choice.

I agree 100% with waverider, if you can nullify this one by not playing the trading game, it removes a big arrow in the manipulation quiver.

I agree, but if I don't agree with her opinion, she will make me suffer and I then I give in.  I can't handle the suffering.

I know it's tough, but surprise her and don't give in, or leave for a while until she behaves, but whatever you do hold your ground. Let her know she doesn't control you. Life will go better for you because she'll actually start respecting you. She'll likely go through an extinction burst " the phenomena of behavior temporarily getting worse, not better, when the reinforcement stops", but it is the beginning of her realising that things have changed.

[startrekuser]

I know it's tough, but surprise her and don't give in, or leave for a while until she behaves, but whatever you do hold your ground. Let her know she doesn't control you. Life will go better for you because she'll actually start respecting you. She'll likely go through an extinction burst " the phenomena of behavior temporarily getting worse, not better, when the reinforcement stops", but it is the beginning of her realising that things have changed.

Thanks.  I have so many questions about this.  I've been living in a fantasy world.  I think that if I lie about what I believe and appease her, then everything will be alright, but there's always something else that comes up.  So if I tell the truth, then she'll say that I'm a liar, which is true.  Then she'll ask me why I lied and I'll say "to keep peace" or something like that.  Then she'll say that I lied just to get her off my back.  I've been through this before, so I know.  She made me pay for telling the truth.  When she says stuff like "you just said <x> to get me off your back!", how do I respond to that? I could say, yes I did and I regret it and I should always tell the truth.  And I could apologize.  The problem is, she brings these things up over and over again.  Nothing is ever resolved with her, no matter how much I apologize or validate her feelings.   How di I deal with that?  My instinct is to say that we've addressed this already and I've apologized and I'm not going to discuss it anymore.  Then she gets angry and accuses me of ignoring her feelings and on and on and on and it escalates.  How do I end this type of conversation?  I'm telling you that she is an absolute master at manipulating me.  I don't know yet how to not be manipulated by her accusations and anger.

[startrekuser]

I like that you want to take an assertive stance. But think about it, once the card is played, it loses it's power. My W has found that out after 19 divorce threats. It loses it's power somewhere, because the burden is ours to execute once we've set the ultimatum. And if we don't it just looks like manipulation, and maybe it is .

BTW I'm drafting my settlement agreement tomorrow with my lawyer, so I can really empathise with you on this. I've decided not to play the card, as tempting as it is, but its ready if she is ever gets violent with me again. That's my line. If she crosses it, she'll be served.

What do you mean by "drafting my settlement agreement tomorrow with my lawyer"?  Also, does she know you are doing this?

[Moselle]

What do you mean by "drafting my settlement agreement tomorrow with my lawyer"? 



I'M happy to have a private message chat about this if you need advice. Pls drop me a note. I don't want it in the public domain.

[Moselle]

I know it's tough, but surprise her and don't give in, or leave for a while until she behaves, but whatever you do hold your ground. Let her know she doesn't control you. Life will go better for you because she'll actually start respecting you. She'll likely go through an extinction burst " the phenomena of behavior temporarily getting worse, not better, when the reinforcement stops", but it is the beginning of her realising that things have changed.

Thanks.  I have so many questions about this.  I've been living in a fantasy world.  I think that if I lie about what I believe and appease her, then everything will be alright, but there's always something else that comes up.  So if I tell the truth, then she'll say that I'm a liar, which is true.  Then she'll ask me why I lied and I'll say "to keep peace" or something like that.  Then she'll say that I lied just to get her off my back.  I've been through this before, so I know.  She made me pay for telling the truth.  When she says stuff like "you just said <x> to get me off your back!", how do I respond to that? I could say, yes I did and I regret it and I should always tell the truth.  And I could apologize.  The problem is, she brings these things up over and over again.  Nothing is ever resolved with her, no matter how much I apologize or validate her feelings.   How di I deal with that?  My instinct is to say that we've addressed this already and I've apologized and I'm not going to discuss it anymore.  Then she gets angry and accuses me of ignoring her feelings and on and on and on and it escalates.  How do I end this type of conversation?  I'm telling you that she is an absolute master at manipulating me.  I don't know yet how to not be manipulated by her accusations and anger.

Start. You are aware now which is good. Yes she is exercising control over you. But the killer thing is that you are making a choice to allow her. Do you realise  that?

I am having a BPD free day today. Check out my post on the staying board. Someone said "Get off their back, get out of their way and get on with your life"

She has tried to get under my skin already today. I refused and said put it in an email. I'll read it tomorrow. She hit the roof and started the usual hookwhich keep me in the conversation. FOG. But I refused, just kept repeating that until she angrily said "fine I'm going home to send that email right now"

[hurting300]

Yeah but you know at the end of the day  we are so stressed by them we start acting like them. I yelled at my ex, I threaten to evict her several times. It's not my fault she just couldn't grow up.

[Moselle]

Yeah but you know at the end of the day  we are so stressed by them we start acting like them. I yelled at my ex, I threaten to evict her several times. It's not my fault she just couldn't grow up.

Healed man, I can empathise with that stress. And also recognise the fleas  that I have taken on as well.

My relationship is not a pretty thing by any stretch of the imagination. But I am realising that my stress is not caused by her or by her behaviour.  It's caused by my perception of her behaviour, and it it is absolutely my choice to put up with it, tell her to stop it or just leave. I've noticed the more I exercise the second two options, the more empowered and less stressed I feel.

[hurting300]

All I wanted was for her to stop backstabbing me, lying to me and get a job. Is that really so hard? Did she really have to take the baby she didn't take care of and disappear? Then stalk melol... it's crazy at it's best.

[Moselle]

All I wanted was for her to stop backstabbing me, lying to me and get a job. Is that really so hard? Did she really have to take the baby she didn't take care of and disappear? Then stalk melol... it's crazy at it's best.

Yeah it is crazy. Super crazy. I hear you.

[hurting300]

See... that's BPD. Disordered thinking.

[Sylvia76]

This sounds just like my situation... .I withhold information just to keep the peace.

It's never anything bad that I'm withholding my true feelings or opinions much of the time out of fear of his reaction or worse... .the silent treatment.

I feel like I can't fully express myself and just keeping my feelings pushed down because he just doesn't react well to a difference of opinion (normally he just says: "we're not talking about this now".

I won't lie about important things but I sometimes leave things out like my ex husband calling me to discuss our daughter.  We are only having a conversation about school, Dr. appts, birthday parties, etc. but he tends to think it's romantic or something.  I just got tired of defending the conversations about my daughter so I just don't even bring it up.

[Moselle]

We are only having a conversation about school, Dr. appts, birthday parties, etc. but he tends to think it's romantic or something. 

Hi Sylvia76, What do you mean by this? When you discuss details about your daughter, he gets the wrong idea, and thinks you want intimacy?

[Sylvia76]

We are only having a conversation about school, Dr. appts, birthday parties, etc. but he tends to think it's romantic or something. 

Hi Sylvia76, What do you mean by this? When you discuss details about your daughter, he gets the wrong idea, and thinks you want intimacy?

Exactly.

He has a fear that I'm going to out of the blue decide I want to get back together with my ex-husband while we're talking about the details of co-parenting in two different households.

Meanwhile, if any of his ex girlfriends FB message or text him he "forgets" to tell me about it because "it's not a big deal".

It seems there are two sets of rules... .