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Author Topic: Not JADEing during dysregulation help  (Read 843 times)
Marvis
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« on: September 15, 2014, 07:14:16 PM »

Ok so obviously when my uBPDbf is going in to dysregulation I don't want to JADE but how? What do I do? I'm painted black right now because I grabbed him a dented energy drink, which he threw out his car window in a temper tantrum   the whole time he was screaming at me (in the car, on the freeway, speeding the angrier he got) I was silent. He then screamed "why do you just sit there like a dumb ___ and let me yell at you? Defend yourself, all of our problems are because you won't find a solution! " my only response was "anything I say is just going to make you even more upset, nothing will make it better." When we got home he was pi**ed, then stormed out the door while saying "Gotta go get an energy drink now since my incompetent girlfriend can't do anything right. Don't do s**t for me EVER again" Soo, day 2 of silence,  been doing my own thing. Going for jog-walks, chilling with the cat outside so he can have the house to himself, etc. None of that's the point of this post though,  how would you guys handle this type of behavior without JADEing?  I'm confused on how it works I guess. Any help is welcome.
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2014, 07:57:51 PM »

Hi Marvis, do you have family or friends nearby?  Honestly, I'd be hitting the road on that junk.  It's not always the safest thing to do, so I've heard... ; it would be best to have a plan already in place.

Ugh, I'm so sorry you're dealing with all of this.  Are you afraid of him?  Is he taking any responsibility towards his anger or dysregulated states?
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2014, 08:05:51 PM »

Yikes that sounds down right abusive.  He really flipped out because the can was dented a?
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2014, 08:14:33 PM »

Marvis... .  My ex is very similar in behavior.  And I think you actually are handling things as well as anyone can be expected to.  You didn't JADE.  You are removing yourself from the situation as much as you can and giving him the space he needs.  Is this abuse?  Well, it's certainly not how anyone would want to be treated.  I have to wonder if you have always responded in this way?  or if you used to JADE and now you are learning to not react?  If so, perhaps it will begin to get better when he realizes you won't take the bait and fight with him.   
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2014, 08:18:57 PM »

Ok so obviously when my uBPDbf is going in to dysregulation I don't want to JADE but how? What do I do? I'm painted black right now because I grabbed him a dented energy drink, which he threw out his car window in a temper tantrum   the whole time he was screaming at me (in the car, on the freeway, speeding the angrier he got) I was silent. He then screamed "why do you just sit there like a dumb ___ and let me yell at you? Defend yourself, all of our problems are because you won't find a solution! " my only response was "anything I say is just going to make you even more upset, nothing will make it better." When we got home he was pi**ed, then stormed out the door while saying "Gotta go get an energy drink now since my incompetent girlfriend can't do anything right. Don't do s**t for me EVER again" Soo, day 2 of silence,  been doing my own thing. Going for jog-walks, chilling with the cat outside so he can have the house to himself, etc. None of that's the point of this post though,  how would you guys handle this type of behavior without JADEing?  I'm confused on how it works I guess. Any help is welcome.

Tough one... .

Maybe ask him what he would suggest you say... .gently. 

But if he is in full dysregulation... .looks like staying out of the way is the best... .

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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2014, 08:42:32 PM »

Marvis... .  My ex is very similar in behavior.  And I think you actually are handling things as well as anyone can be expected to.  You didn't JADE.  You are removing yourself from the situation as much as you can and giving him the space he needs.  Is this abuse?  Well, it's certainly not how anyone would want to be treated.  I have to wonder if you have always responded in this way?  or if you used to JADE and now you are learning to not react?  If so, perhaps it will begin to get better when he realizes you won't take the bait and fight with him.   

Yes the can was dented and it totally ruined his life. He'd "never do that to me" he says. I bit my tounge instead of saying it wouldn't bother me.

Yes, I used to JADE. That's human nature, to defend when offended. It's really making him mad that I won't respond. I'm tired of fighting,  4 or 5 days out of the week he's mad at me for something. I can't be sucked into the cycle anymore. It makes me crazy,  although I'm far from normal (eh, normalcy is all relative anyway)

Not really any friends to speak of. My family barely talks to me for reasons unknown to me. I've pretty much just got myself (and you guys too Smiling (click to insert in post))

He hasn't gotten violent angry in a while. I walk away before it gets to that instead of pushing him like I used to when I was slightly more naive. I'm not scared of him and 50% of the time he will apologize to me when he regains his sane state.  I just despise the name calling and put downs. He knows it bothers me and messes with my self esteem which is why he resorts to that tactic. Trying to get a reaction but I can't give it to him.  I'm better than that. I'm a big girl, not a temper tantrum throwing 5 year old.
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2014, 09:29:54 PM »

Have you ever heard of the communication technique of "matching"? In "Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder" by Valerie Porr, she talks about how "Reflecting back or restating what your loved one is feeling, thinking, wanting, or needing legitimizes his emotional responses. People who are accustomed to having their feelings invalidated or who doubt the accuracy of their responses usually think that what they are feeling does not make any sense or is inappropriate."

My son, who has been in recovery from BPD since March of 2013, explained it to me this way: When he is really upset, or angry, or depressed, if I respond calmly he feels like I don't "hear" him or understand him. It makes him feel like what he is feeling isn't important or "right" and that just makes him angrier or sadder, depending on what he is going through. When I react in a way that matches his feelings, then it rather weirdly calms him down and makes him feel better, because he sees that I understand how he feels. He doesn't feel "dissed" if I match his intensity and tone of voice in my reactions to him.

I'm not telling you to JADE in any way (even though he said he wanted you to defend yourself); your reaction needs to just match his feelings without your taking the blame for any of them. From page 154 of that book mentioned above:

Dr. Linehan states that there is a "kernel of truth" in everything that those with BPD say. It is your job to find that nugget of truth in your loved one's feelings and/or response to a situation and to reflect it back to him, to validate it. Sometimes you may feel like you are searching for a ring in the sand at the beach, or a contact lens in an airport restroom. You may need a magnifying glass to find that nugget of truth, but do not give up. Somewhere, based on who he is, not on who your are, there is a valid basis for whatever it is your love one is thinking or feeling. For people with BPD, being taken seriously is a significant experience that reinforces their own sense of what they are feeling. Finding this nugget of truth and validating it is an essential component of the dialectical reconciliation of opposites that will ultimately repair your relationship.

I'm not saying you need to put up with verbal abuse. You are not there to be abused in any way. But, if the situation seems to warrant it, you can try this matching technique, finding something you can understand about his feelings, and muster up a feeling that reflects his own and use a matching facial expression and tone of voice without taking blame.

Take a leap of faith, and acknowledge the situation as he sees it by assuming there is validity in what he is thinking or feeling. Search for the nugget of truth in what he is saying, find what might be valid or make sense in his situation within the context of his sense of reality, and reflect it back to him. Finding the nugget of truth in your loved one's response is an absolutely essential component of validation and of the dialectical reconciliation of opposites that can ultimately repair your relationship. You are on a tightrope. Your loved one does not always make sense; he may exaggerate or minimize situations, may think in situations, may think in extremes, devalue what is valuable, idealize what is ordinary, and make dysfunctional decisions. However, that is his experience, his reality; it belongs to him. Do not prejudge his opinions, thoughts, and decisions. (page 155)

In this situation (and I don't condone his speeding and destructive behaviors) you could possibly say, with a tone and intensity that matches his own right from the very beginning of his reaction prior to further escalation: "Wow! That's really annoying! It's got to be uncomfortable handling that dented can; what a pain!" Being as belligerent as he is about the inconvenience (or whatever it is that you sense is fueling his anger) might validate him pronto and stop the dysregulation in its tracks. It sounds crazy, but this has worked with both my BPD son and Husband with BPD traits.

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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2014, 10:41:34 PM »

Marvis, i cannot tell you how bad i feel that you are going through this - and so bravely! That is really something... .

As someone who has heard any amount of verbal abuse - directly and indirectly - my self-esteem was non-existent and self-confidence not even remotely there... .I did seek help from here and so many were so generous in the time and affection they gave me. I wondered what was holding me back... .it was my own feelings of unworthiness. Thing is, every time he would say something unkind, all those deep feelings of unworthiness that have been building up over the years, and are tightly packed into even the deepest recesses of my heart would bubble up - they'd come frothing up and i would find myself totally paralyzed to do or say anything... .which, of course, would again start him off. So, i decided to first work on myself... .it's very difficult for me even now after these months... .because i cannot tell you the kind of thoughts, that i am so useless etc.,  that keep surfacing - and i have to push them away so that i can cope. Now i'm learning to tell myself - it's okay that what i gave him is not up to what he wants; it's okay that i feel bad when he says these unkind and unfair things to me; it's okay that i do botch up occasionally; it's okay that i am the quiet kind of person; it's okay that i like this (or don't like this)... .and so on... .till i calm down, and then i try to deal with it.

This, what Rapt Reader quoted, is the key:  'It is your job to find that nugget of truth in your loved one's feelings and/or response to a situation and to reflect it back to him, to validate it. In all that barrage of unkind words, there is a truth.' Now what i do is i walk away, or try to... .just try to get out of his way and see if i can calmly see what went wrong (to be calm in this situation is not easy but i'm working at it, and honestly, sometimes i can and sometimes i can't). The thing that stumps me even more is that when he gets over his outburst, he makes it seem as if it was my fault that i couldn't handle it... .that it was just one of those things... .and this just adds to my confusion and pain, making it more difficult to find that kernel... .but i've learnt over the days, from here, that it is something that i have to find if i am to get some peace back... .

I cannot hit back, Marvis, but i've found another technique. After a few days when he is in a receptive frame of mind, i try to tell it back to him... .i tell him about the thing that hurt me or that he was unkind about, in a story, bringing in something i've read, or heard from my friend. When i do that, i see that it does stick somewhere and i can feel him thinking about it. Of course, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but the thing is to go on searching for what works.

Please know that you are deeply appreciated and cared for here in this family... .this is where i have been drawing my sustenance from. While we deal with the BPDs in our lives, we also need to believe that when our techniques fail, it's okay, we can try again, and that we have it in us to do so.

Sending you love and hugs from across the oceans... .

Lilibeth
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2014, 10:58:30 PM »

In this situation (and I don't condone his speeding and destructive behaviors) you could possibly say, with a tone and intensity that matches his own right from the very beginning of his reaction prior to further escalation: "Wow! That's really annoying! It's got to be uncomfortable handling that dented can; what a pain!" Being as belligerent as he is about the inconvenience (or whatever it is that you sense is fueling his anger) might validate him pronto and stop the dysregulation in its tracks. It sounds crazy, but this has worked with both my BPD son and Husband with BPD traits.

Wow, if I said this to my fiance in an incident like this, she would claim I was mocking her or being sarcastic (I'm waaaay too level headed and rational to ever have anything like this come out of my mouth believably - she even claims I can't swear convincingly).  And I can almost guarantee this would escalate things to physical violence or something on par with that.  While it may work in some situations, I think the chance for making it worse is waaaay to great.  Safety is #1 here, and it sounds like safety was a big concern in the OP's situation.  I'd strongly suggest in situations like that to get the hell out of there ASAP and sort it out later.  Don't even try other techniques or tools here during that moment.  Just LEAVE HIM ALONE - its not worth the risk.
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2014, 05:33:16 AM »

 

One question or issue about doing this believably ... .

What Max brought up about the pwBPD claiming this or that... .

Anyone want to take a guess as to what that is about? Do you think they really want you to know what they think or "claim"... .?

Incredibly important that if this is tried... .that you are ready for the claims and handle those appropriately.

A soft "sorry you feel that way"... .is probably a good starting point...

Stay away from yes you do... .no I don't... .

Marvis,

How do you feel about some of these ideas?

The overall point is to respond differently than your pwBPD is used to.  Even better if you can respond in a way that deals with his kernel of truth that he is working with.

Do you understand the kernel of truth concept?

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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2014, 05:55:36 AM »

Marvis, I'm more interested in how you feel when he gets into this level of agitated state, than how it makes him feel, or things to say or do to calm him or get him out of it.  How does it make you feel to be screamed at and called derogatory names over a dented can?  Speeding down the highway the angrier he gets?  Telling you to defend yourself?  Uh yea, that would work really well in the car on the highway at top speeds.

Safety first!  At the first stop, I'd probably bail out of the car and call a cab or someone for a ride.  I would NOT want to be around that level of kookoo. 

Actions and boundaries are what is needed here, I personally feel.  And I'd be very hesitant about getting in a car with him again, until I felt safe to do so.

That's what I consider defending myself.  The solution would be not putting up with it.

If I'm looking for a 'kernel of truth' coming from him, it would be that I'm not making myself a priority by protecting (defending) myself and my character.

The 'dented can' was used as an implement for abuse, to wield his so-called power and control.





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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2014, 08:37:14 AM »

You don't JADE for one simple reason. Dysregulation means the higher brain functions have shut down. It is similar to PTSD ... .if a soldier is screaming that he is under attack you don't argue with him... .you don't use your verbal skills to negotiate with the primitives that have hijacked his brain. if you do it's received by the limbic system as further threat, and the dysregulation increases. things can be discussed when his higher brain is online.

emergency personnel often use "matching" when they have to go in and engage... .but, if you don't have to engage, he doesn't have a gun to his head... .then it's often safer to get distance.

I understand why matching can be helpful... .I've used it and I've not seen it escalate... .it often does calm things... .but... .here's the deal

Marsha Linehan and others sometimes talk as though bwBPD are the only ones who get dysregulated. having insults hurled at you triggers your limbic system too, it feels threatening to you!  so get out of there! Get away from him when he is doing this. Clinicians aren't dating their BPD patient... .they are less involved and so are less activated then family and loved ones.

if you do want try "matching" do it in a safer environment than what you described... .like not in the car where you can't easily get out if it goes bad.

Ugh... .really scary stuff. I'm so sorry.
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2014, 12:30:17 PM »

Hello Marvis,

When I read your post my first thought was for your safety. If you are in a situation like that again, particularly in a car can you get your bf to stop and then make your own way home. It sets a boundary for you and takes you away from continued abuse. I realise this might not be possible, but it will definitely short circuit all that is being aimed at you.

I want to echo also what maxsterling and MayBeSo have said its sounds as though from your post your bf is past the point of any effective intervention and that the next step might be violence. I know my dBPDh is unreachable at this point. In this case your well being is paramount so removing yourself from the situation or saying nothing sounds absolutely right for you. It seems from your post that you have done a great job of responding differently to his dysregulations, it maybe that your bf will respond differently in time.

Not JADEing is difficult but continuing to implement it and removing yourself from any and all such dysregulations is absolutely what you need to keep doing. 
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« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2014, 02:59:00 PM »

In a dysregulated situation in a car with my BPD exgf, I asked her to pull over and drop me off at a nearby restaurant. She calmed down a lot after my request, so I didn't end up doing it (though maybe I should have in retrospect). I totally agree with the board members who say that the first thing to think of is safety. So sorry you are in the midst of this right now.
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« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2014, 03:15:06 PM »

In a dysregulated situation in a car with my BPD exgf, I asked her to pull over and drop me off at a nearby restaurant. She calmed down a lot after my request, so I didn't end up doing it (though maybe I should have in retrospect). I totally agree with the board members who say that the first thing to think of is safety. So sorry you are in the midst of this right now.

I was the driver... .and I have pulled over... taken the keys and gone for a walk.

Got calmed down, talked a bit and proceeded on with the trip.

The subject that she wouldn't let go of was some theory about my affections for some other woman.

This was before I knew better... .so ... .I JADEed... .argued... whatever... .

Many of us have been there... .and best to get out of the car situation and take a break... .
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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2014, 03:53:45 PM »

I've had two instances with dysregulation in the car.  The first I was driving, and she insisted upon getting out.  I told her I would let her out when I got to a safe place to let her out, yet she tried to open the car door while I was moving before I got to a safe place (it was the middle of a construction zone, at night, and unlit).  I did stop at the next store, but she refused to get out.  I resumed driving when a security guard told us to leave.  A few miles down the road, she tried opening the car door again.  I stopped, and she got out and started walking down the street.  I stayed where I was.  She walked 100 yards in front of the car, sat on the curb and cried and raged.  I waited, she got back into the car, and we made it home, where she resumed raging and self harming until I called the police. 

The second was in the middle of a road trip, and she was driving.  We were on the freeway, and she started screaming.  Before I could tell her to pull over, she deemed it unsafe, so she got off the next exit and pulled into a parking lot and raged at me for another hour.  I wound up driving after that to the place we were staying for the night.  I considered buying a plane ticket for her to fly back home while I drove.

Some similar stories that happened before she met me:  She did once jump out of a moving car with her dad driving when she was a teenager.  And a previous boyfriend did once buy her a plane ticket home when she argued with him while on a trip. 

As I mentioned previously, dealing with a rage or outburst is difficult enough when you are on some kind of safe turf and you have the option of getting away from it.  Completely different when the raging person is in control - do whatever you need to do to be safe. 
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2014, 04:36:04 PM »

You don't JADE for one simple reason. Dysregulation means the higher brain functions have shut down. It is similar to PTSD ... .if a soldier is screaming that he is under attack you don't argue with him... .you don't use your verbal skills to negotiate with the primitives that have hijacked his brain. if you do it's received by the limbic system as further threat, and the dysregulation increases. things can be discussed when his higher brain is online.

emergency personnel often use "matching" when they have to go in and engage... .but, if you don't have to engage, he doesn't have a gun to his head... .then it's often safer to get distance.

I understand why matching can be helpful... .I've used it and I've not seen it escalate... .it often does calm things... .but... .here's the deal

Marsha Linehan and others sometimes talk as though bwBPD are the only ones who get dysregulated. having insults hurled at you triggers your limbic system too, it feels threatening to you!  so get out of there! Get away from him when he is doing this. Clinicians aren't dating their BPD patient... .they are less involved and so are less activated then family and loved ones.

if you do want try "matching" do it in a safer environment than what you described... .like not in the car where you can't easily get out if it goes bad.

Ugh... .really scary stuff. I'm so sorry.

Rapt Reader and MaybeSo, I'm curious to know if "matching" could also be considered "matching emotions", reflective mirroring in a sense, the sheer magnitude of the emotion only directed from ourselves FOR ourselves?  So, responding with just as much force, only for our own protection when it's a serious boundary that's being trampled on.

It's different than an eye for an eye, because it's not meant to cause harm or done in a vindictive way; it's to create a safer, more respectful environment for ourselves AND our partners in the long run.  A better, more fulfilling relationship in the future.

How are you doing, Marvis?  This is a lot of info coming your way and I hope you don't feel overwhelmed  
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2014, 06:38:41 PM »

Two things spring to mind.

Firstly if you not reacting is a new approach you will be getting an element of extinction burst.

Secondly if you are going mouse like when he is angry then that fuels him as he sees it as you not taking it seriously and not being on board with the "seriousness' of the issue as he perceives it, so he tries harder to demonstrate that it is serious>escalation.

What I have found is that behavior like this needs a firm response not just hiding in a shelter. This does not mean shouting back. it means FIRMLY stating that you wont be spoken to like that then removing yourself. That is showing that you are standing up for yourself and your right not to be exposed to it, as opposed to hiding under a rock.

True it is harder when trapped in a car, and you may have to wait. Even refusing to go in the car with him for a while. You do need to show that you are willing to protect you, and that "freeshots" are just not on.
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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2014, 06:42:45 PM »

I dont know, I did get into similar situations and my bf

regularly says that if I keep doing/thinking/being/talking

something he'll smash the car into something.

I usually shrug at it - "as you say, I dont mind dying".

That usually makes him far less enthusiastic about it... .

I have recently found a very unconventional way out of

these sour situations. I just look at him and think -

"my man is really the best at tantrums! just look how

sincerely aggressive he is, how loudly he yells, no, I

am totally proud of him, I really got the most unusual

person in the world - amnt I really really lucky?"

I end up contemplating him with sincere admiration

and a broad smile appears on my face.

That matters... .sigh. It kinda catches up

Once I observed him painting me black and then without

making any pause, repainting me white in the same speech.

Kinda :

Him: but you are that bad and this bad and so-so bad,

so I cant possibly ever be with you!

Me: broad smile

Him: but you are this and that bad!

Me: broad smile, look of admiration at this much

passion and so generalised conclusions over such a tiny thing

Himgetting confused) but... .you are this and that bad... .right?

Mebroad, broad smile) "hmm... .you might be mistaken?"

Him: but then... .you are also good... .You did this and that... .

Me: smiling, but surprised as i understand what's going on

Him: yeah, and you did that good thing for long time!

Me: smiling

Him: so you are actually good, u are very very welcome to

my place!

Me: (at this point trying not to laugh at such a rapid

reversal) "Thank you so much!"

It does not always work like that, but it protects ME

from counter-anger, looking defensive and such

And it goes well with my personality too -

I always admire people for being unique and for their

special talents - so his skills of making a fight out of... .

basically out of nothing... .deserve my highest respect.

He is in any case very strong willed, very assertive and

knows how to protect himself from what he sees as

abuse and unacceptable treatment.

I know that sounds insane, and I dont know why it works

for me... .but it helps me remain unaffected and not to start

hating/fighting him back.

I have always been struggling with one question during his

tantrums: here he is, abusive, face distorted - am I capable

of LOVING him in this very moment?

Thankfully - yes, I am capable.

The moment I found this solution the "Jekyll and Hyde"

feeling has instantly disappeared.

I managed to see him whole - that means my mind managed

to handle the ambivalence and integrate his "bad self" and "good self"

That's logical - he splits, he cant help it - but I do not have to, right?
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2014, 07:10:46 PM »

I dont know, I did get into similar situations and my bf

regularly says that if I keep doing/thinking/being/talking

something he'll smash the car into something.

I usually shrug at it - "as you say, I dont mind dying".

That usually makes him far less enthusiastic about it... .

I have recently found a very unconventional way out of

these sour situations. I just look at him and think -

"my man is really the best at tantrums! just look how

sincerely aggressive he is, how loudly he yells, no, I

am totally proud of him, I really got the most unusual

person in the world - amnt I really really lucky?"

I end up contemplating him with sincere admiration

and a broad smile appears on my face.

That matters... .sigh. It kinda catches up

Once I observed him painting me black and then without

making any pause, repainting me white in the same speech.

Kinda :

Him: but you are that bad and this bad and so-so bad,

so I cant possibly ever be with you!

Me: broad smile

Him: but you are this and that bad!

Me: broad smile, look of admiration at this much

passion and so generalised conclusions over such a tiny thing

Himgetting confused) but... .you are this and that bad... .right?

Mebroad, broad smile) "hmm... .you might be mistaken?"

Him: but then... .you are also good... .You did this and that... .

Me: smiling, but surprised as i understand what's going on

Him: yeah, and you did that good thing for long time!

Me: smiling

Him: so you are actually good, u are very very welcome to

my place!

Me: (at this point trying not to laugh at such a rapid

reversal) "Thank you so much!"

It does not always work like that, but it protects ME

from counter-anger, looking defensive and such

And it goes well with my personality too -

I always admire people for being unique and for their

special talents - so his skills of making a fight out of... .

basically out of nothing... .deserve my highest respect.

He is in any case very strong willed, very assertive and

knows how to protect himself from what he sees as

abuse and unacceptable treatment.

I know that sounds insane, and I dont know why it works

for me... .but it helps me remain unaffected and not to start

hating/fighting him back.

I have always been struggling with one question during his

tantrums: here he is, abusive, face distorted - am I capable

of LOVING him in this very moment?

Thankfully - yes, I am capable.

The moment I found this solution the "Jekyll and Hyde"

feeling has instantly disappeared.

I managed to see him whole - that means my mind managed

to handle the ambivalence and integrate his "bad self" and "good self"

That's logical - he splits, he cant help it - but I do not have to, right?

First thing you are doing there is taking the sting out of how affects you. seeing humor in the ridiculous.

It stops you being reactive and feeding escalations

Its stops him soothing by projection as you are not picking up the batten.

Kudos for being able to do that, it is not easy and takes a lot of self confidence to do. I do similar at times.

You are being the stability that he is lacking at that moment.

As you say it wont always fix him, but it goes a long towards protecting you from getting your head in a scramble.
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2014, 07:17:54 PM »

It does not always work like that, but it protects ME

from counter-anger, looking defensive and such

And it goes well with my personality too -

I always admire people for being unique and for their

special talents - so his skills of making a fight out of... .

basically out of nothing... .deserve my highest respect.

He is in any case very strong willed, very assertive and

knows how to protect himself from what he sees as

abuse and unacceptable treatment.

I know that sounds insane, and I dont know why it works

for me... .but it helps me remain unaffected and not to start

hating/fighting him back.

I have always been struggling with one question during his

tantrums: here he is, abusive, face distorted - am I capable

of LOVING him in this very moment?

Thankfully - yes, I am capable.

The moment I found this solution the "Jekyll and Hyde"

feeling has instantly disappeared.

I managed to see him whole - that means my mind managed

to handle the ambivalence and integrate his "bad self" and "good self"

That's logical - he splits, he cant help it - but I do not have to, right?


Personally, I find there's a big difference between "splitting" and protecting ourselves when it comes to abuse or nonsense that we don't want in our lives .  Once I realized that "Hey, I don't like this and do not have to put up with this", was the day that kind of behavior stopped.  I've never actually "split him" or I wouldn't be with him.  I can love and loathe things about him at the same time and still not put up with garbage behavior.  There's no room for it in my life.

Sure, some things are mild or quirks, but the big stuff?  Boundaries have gotten me a lot further than shrugs and/or smiles.

I guess we all have our own way of handling our lives Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2014, 07:37:19 PM »

Rapt Reader and MaybeSo, I'm curious to know if "matching" could also be considered "matching emotions", reflective mirroring in a sense, the sheer magnitude of the emotion only directed from ourselves FOR ourselves?  So, responding with just as much force, only for our own protection when it's a serious boundary that's being trampled on.

It's different than an eye for an eye, because it's not meant to cause harm or done in a vindictive way; it's to create a safer, more respectful environment for ourselves AND our partners in the long run.  A better, more fulfilling relationship in the future.

Yes, matching our loved one's intensity of emotions, reflecting his feelings back as a way of validating that you "get it". And I, myself, have found that it is for my own protection in a way, during the dysregulation. If I do this right away (especially when the emotions he feels are related to something I did or didn't do that have unexpectedly upset him), it generally derails his dysregulation because since he feels "heard" and validated, he calms down. He doesn't need to bluster anymore because I've shown that I "get it". It generally ends with him agreeing with my annoyance (or whatever emotion I've matched) and we move on.

My suggestion for Marvis' conversation about the dented can (and it was a very rough draft   ) wasn't intended to be used after he was overstimulated and getting dangerously angry. It would be hard to "match" that! It was an example of how to match his very first reaction to the dented can--at the very first glimpse of his getting upset by it, a remark reflecting his unease at the situation by showing you are feeling what he is feeling about it. It is tricky, though, and takes quick thinking and figuring out his major discomfort and its likely cause. And a way to avoid JADEing.

I wouldn't try something like that after the dysregulation is in full force and there is a dangerous situation; it's a technique designed to head off a dangerous situation by nipping it in the bud. Your description of how it is supposed to work, 123Phoebe, is really good  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2014, 07:57:18 PM »

Rapt Reader and MaybeSo, I'm curious to know if "matching" could also be considered "matching emotions", reflective mirroring in a sense, the sheer magnitude of the emotion only directed from ourselves FOR ourselves?  So, responding with just as much force, only for our own protection when it's a serious boundary that's being trampled on.

It's different than an eye for an eye, because it's not meant to cause harm or done in a vindictive way; it's to create a safer, more respectful environment for ourselves AND our partners in the long run.  A better, more fulfilling relationship in the future.

Yes, matching our loved one's intensity of emotions, reflecting his feelings back as a way of validating that you "get it". And I, myself, have found that it is for my own protection in a way, during the dysregulation. If I do this right away (especially when the emotions he feels are related to something I did or didn't do that have unexpectedly upset him), it generally derails his dysregulation because since he feels "heard" and validated, he calms down. He doesn't need to bluster anymore because I've shown that I "get it". It generally ends with him agreeing with my annoyance (or whatever emotion I've matched) and we move on.

My suggestion for Marvis' conversation about the dented can (and it was a very rough draft   ) wasn't intended to be used after he was overstimulated and getting dangerously angry. It would be hard to "match" that! It was an example of how to match his very first reaction to the dented can--at the very first glimpse of his getting upset by it, a remark reflecting his unease at the situation by showing you are feeling what he is feeling about it. It is tricky, though, and takes quick thinking and figuring out his major discomfort and its likely cause. And a way to avoid JADEing.

I wouldn't try something like that after the dysregulation is in full force and there is a dangerous situation; it's a technique designed to head off a dangerous situation by nipping it in the bud. Your description of how it is supposed to work, 123Phoebe, is really good  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Thank you for explaining this Smiling (click to insert in post)

I'm wondering if getting out of the car (when it's safe to do so), would be considered "matching his emotions", because (to me), it's essentially saying, "Hey, I don't want to be around a person that's screaming at me; it bothers me immensely", much the same as the dented can bothered Marvis's bf immensely?

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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2014, 08:05:28 PM »

Personally, I find there's a big difference between "splitting" and protecting ourselves when it comes to abuse or nonsense that we don't want in our lives .  Once I realized that "Hey, I don't like this and do not have to put up with this", was the day that kind of behavior stopped.  I've never actually "split him" or I wouldn't be with him.  I can love and loathe things about him at the same time and still not put up with garbage behavior.  There's no room for it in my life.

Sure, some things are mild or quirks, but the big stuff?  Boundaries have gotten me a lot further than shrugs and/or smiles.

I guess we all have our own way of handling our lives Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Phoebe is right there is a big difference between, not getting drawn into this and outright abuse. Where boundaries are the go.  Where that line is varies from person to person. Really it is defined by how it affects you. Not reacting and taking things personally is a good way to raise where that line is, but there should always be a line somewhere, and it needs to be consistent.

The method used by AnnaK is a good way of preventing a lot of the little potential triggers from escalating to that boundary line. It makes validating all that much easier without feeling like you are faking it. It is not a substitute for that line in the sand.

When it is boundary time you need to act firmly and dignified as opposed to the "run and hide" approach
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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2014, 08:11:58 PM »

Hi everyone.  Wow, yeah a smidgen overwhelmed is an understatement.  I'm currently sticking to my newly recognized boundary of not putting up with the trash talk and put downs. He's going to need to figure out how to deal with the consequences of his actions instead of my just shrugging it off like usual. I communicate basic things to him, that's it, no more, no less. I go for a walk, I tell him. As for the situation in the car, we were on our way home for our 1/2 hour lunch from work.  I couldn't escape as easily as most would think. I drove myself back to work in my car and have been leaving before him everyday. We have the same days off this week, one of which is tomorrow so we will see what the day brings. His dysregulation comes on so quickly,  I NEVER see it coming. He can be his sweet loving amazing self one second but flip to his evil hate spewing self the next. I never have time to talk him down off the ledge or try to mirror his emotions. I tell him I understand his frustrations and nothing I do is meant to upset him but it falls upon deaf ears. That day he was having a rough day at work, mostly with the girl he had an intensely flirty emotional affair with a few months ago. She knows how to push his buttons and does it when she's bored or jealous of me for getting along with him (she obviously developed feelings for him but is very angry for him choosing me instead of her) I completely ignore her existence, she wants a confrontation still but I refuse to stoop to her level and/or jeopardize my job for her. Basically,  her jacked up emotional issues dictate how he treats me. She makes him mad, I get the brunt of it. It's nowhere near fair and him and I have discussed this in calmer times. I'm just now sticking to my boundary (better late than nevrr) of removing myself from the put downs and name calling. Don't know what, if anything, I'm doing "right" but I need to muster up enough self confidence to follow through every time. I'm a good person with so much love in my heart. Thank you to everyone for the advice.  You guys are all so incredibly amazing.  :)on't ever forget it or let anyone tell you different.  We are all stronger than we believe or else we wouldn't be sticking by our loved ones for as long as we have. Thank you thank you thank you  
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« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2014, 08:19:01 PM »

Personally, I find there's a big difference between "splitting" and protecting ourselves when it comes to abuse or nonsense that we don't want in our lives .  Once I realized that "Hey, I don't like this and do not have to put up with this", was the day that kind of behavior stopped.  I've never actually "split him" or I wouldn't be with him.  I can love and loathe things about him at the same time and still not put up with garbage behavior.  There's no room for it in my life.

Sure, some things are mild or quirks, but the big stuff?  Boundaries have gotten me a lot further than shrugs and/or smiles.

I guess we all have our own way of handling our lives Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Phoebe is right there is a big difference between, not getting drawn into this and outright abuse. Where boundaries are the go.  Where that line is varies from person to person. Really it is defined by how it affects you. Not reacting and taking things personally is a good way to raise where that line is, but there should always be a line somewhere, and it needs to be consistent.

The method used by AnnaK is a good way of preventing a lot of the little potential triggers from escalating to that boundary line. It makes validating all that much easier without feeling like you are faking it. It is not a substitute for that line in the sand.

When it is boundary time you need to act firmly and dignified as opposed to the "run and hide" approach

How do I enforce my boundary without running and hiding?  He won't talk things over with me or even acknowledge my existence until he gets mad that were out of something he needs then it's straight attack mode of "you don't care about me, it's obvious now" or my personal favorite "you need to leave now" and as I'm putting my shoes on he's following me around raging at me. I am not too proud to admit that I have no clue what I'm doing. I'm not avoiding or hiding from him, I'm just letting him go through whatever cycle this is and I'm trying to take care of myself in the meantime. 
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« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2014, 08:25:06 PM »

I'm wondering if getting out of the car (when it's safe to do so), would be considered "matching his emotions", because (to me), it's essentially saying, "Hey, I don't want to be around a person that's screaming at me; it bothers me immensely", much the same as the dented can bothered Marvis's bf immensely?


If he is already intensely angry, things would be more difficult... .Matching is supposed to reflect your loved one's emotions in a way that validates that you understand them and can "feel" them yourself. Getting out of the car (if it's safe to do it) wouldn't be matching his emotions, because the act is about her, not him. It's not about what he is feeling, but what she is feeling. I agree that the act of her getting away from him would be a self-protective act that would show her intensity of emotions, but it isn't the same thing.

The idea is, in the beginning of the dysregulation, you think to yourself: "If I were my husband/wife, how would I perceive this situation and how would I react?" You are trying to summarize what he/she is telling you into a more understandable explanation, by reframing their story. By doing this you are effectively telling your loved one that you understand his/her experiences and responses to events, even though he/she hasn't told you about them exactly. It kind of redirects the dysregulation, centers him/her, and satisfies the need to be validated. And can head off full-blown dysregulation at the pass... .

How do I enforce my boundary without running and hiding?  He won't talk things over with me or even acknowledge my existence until he gets mad that were out of something he needs then it's straight attack mode of "you don't care about me, it's obvious now" or my personal favorite "you need to leave now" and as I'm putting my shoes on he's following me around raging at me. I am not too proud to admit that I have no clue what I'm doing. I'm not avoiding or hiding from him, I'm just letting him go through whatever cycle this is and I'm trying to take care of myself in the meantime. 

This might help, Marvis: BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence. It's a new article for this site, and has a lot about figuring out where our boundaries are, and how to enforce them. Since everyone's values are different, how to enforce our values-based boundaries will be different too... .And it can be done with humor, sensitivity and/or strength, depending on the exact situation.

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« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2014, 08:41:57 PM »

How do I enforce my boundary without running and hiding? 

It is in the way you do this, if you already have "a list of things you WANT to do" you go do these in a dignified way under your terms and return under your terms, have some constructive plans that allow you to stay away as long as you feel like it (whilst being clear when you will return to avoid the abandonment issues).

I used to go for walks but that felt forced and an imposed last resort. It was not relaxing as I stewed over things, and knew i would be back in the frey too early.

Having something better to do rather than running and hiding.

Just to throw another analogy in here  Smiling (click to insert in post) (I do this a lot)

If you live in a climate with rapidly changeable weather, you would naturally have wet weather plans for when its not looking too good, as opposed to being caught out in the rain and having to run for cover under the nearest tree whilst cursing the rain ouit of frustration.

You know this stuff happens be a like a good scout and always be prepared
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« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2014, 05:01:37 AM »

I enforced my boundary the following way (again, I am an unusual thinker, so it probably won't work for everyone)

Mine is a potential wife batterer. I recognised it early - so next month I went to the gym to the martial arts class. Now it's been more than a year that I practice boxing and muay thai. I like it, anyway.

So I just explained him, that I am not good at being a battered wife, I've never been battered, and it's too late for me to start at the age of 37 - so if he attacks, I see it as my duty to defend myself whatever way I can, plain and simple. I do not promise adequate defence - it will be just ANY defence. We both know boxing - but I am also learning muay thai. We are same size - somehow I'll manage to break free from a drunk man.

For a start, I'll probably use the front kick (heel in the belly), then scream help and run to a public place. If he still chases me there, he will have the opportunity to explain his motivation to police. He is a native indian, and in the light of recent gang rape cases, him chasing a white woman in public won't look any good ("sir! it's not what it looks like! I am just afraid she might leave me!"... .

After some initial incidents of pushing and splashing water into my face, I told him all that and he said in a stubborn way, he can't promise not to lay hands on me. I shrugged and said I am not requiring any promises - just I can't promise not to hurt him back, if he does lay hand on me WITHOUT BOXING GLOVES. In boxing gloves, I do not mind - gloves are protective equipment, so it's safe enough.

Well, I held that boundary for about 2.5 months with no incidents until I felt more comfortable with occasional violence, then I realised I don't need it anymore. He actually told me *I was good at controlling his fists*. And complained that I *took away his gestures*. That surprised me - I assumed he was darn good at controlling himself - and after all that stuff he talked that he can't promise!

But then I realised that indeed, I was taking boxing guard position as soon as he'd start touching me in anger and I always demanded him to watch his hands and back off - and he would.

As a matter of fact, one day I decided I don't need the boundary anymore and I stopped doing that thing (guard position and demand to back off). I wondered, what would happen.

Next week he threw a straw chair at me. I did not mind.

In another week, he slapped me without boxing gloves. It did not hurt, I did not mind (in fact I could not help laughing)

Then take me right - we are both boxers. So this absolute non-battering boundary is meaningless for us in particular.

We fight every week with boxing gloves to mutual satisfaction (now that I am getting accustomed to regular sparrings, we'll probably fight several times a week after I get back to India). We agreed on non-killing and non-injuring each other, but light injuries (like broken lip or a bruise) did happen, it's not a big deal. None of us cares.

In fact, even if he happens to K.O. me by accident, I'd just shrug - so far it never happened, but it's part of boxing, no issues... .

I will probably talk it through that he may touch me, but he should watch out not to injure me... .not to break my nose and such... .although it seems like there is not even any need of talking - he picked it up right away "automatically" after I removed the boundary without saying anything.





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« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2014, 06:07:14 AM »

I enforced my boundary the following way (again, I am an unusual thinker, so it probably won't work for everyone)

Mine is a potential wife batterer. I recognised it early - so next month I went to the gym to the martial arts class. Now it's been more than a year that I practice boxing and muay thai. I like it, anyway.

So I just explained him, that I am not good at being a battered wife, I've never been battered, and it's too late for me to start at the age of 37 - so if he attacks, I see it as my duty to defend myself whatever way I can, plain and simple. I do not promise adequate defence - it will be just ANY defence. We both know boxing - but I am also learning muay thai. We are same size - somehow I'll manage to break free from a drunk man.

For a start, I'll probably use the front kick (heel in the belly), then scream help and run to a public place. If he still chases me there, he will have the opportunity to explain his motivation to police. He is a native indian, and in the light of recent gang rape cases, him chasing a white woman in public won't look any good ("sir! it's not what it looks like! I am just afraid she might leave me!"... .

After some initial incidents of pushing and splashing water into my face, I told him all that and he said in a stubborn way, he can't promise not to lay hands on me. I shrugged and said I am not requiring any promises - just I can't promise not to hurt him back, if he does lay hand on me WITHOUT BOXING GLOVES. In boxing gloves, I do not mind - gloves are protective equipment, so it's safe enough.

Well, I held that boundary for about 2.5 months with no incidents until I felt more comfortable with occasional violence, then I realised I don't need it anymore. He actually told me *I was good at controlling his fists*. And complained that I *took away his gestures*. That surprised me - I assumed he was darn good at controlling himself - and after all that stuff he talked that he can't promise!

But then I realised that indeed, I was taking boxing guard position as soon as he'd start touching me in anger and I always demanded him to watch his hands and back off - and he would.

As a matter of fact, one day I decided I don't need the boundary anymore and I stopped doing that thing (guard position and demand to back off). I wondered, what would happen.

Next week he threw a straw chair at me. I did not mind.

In another week, he slapped me without boxing gloves. It did not hurt, I did not mind (in fact I could not help laughing)

Then take me right - we are both boxers. So this absolute non-battering boundary is meaningless for us in particular.

We fight every week with boxing gloves to mutual satisfaction (now that I am getting accustomed to regular sparrings, we'll probably fight several times a week after I get back to India). We agreed on non-killing and non-injuring each other, but light injuries (like broken lip or a bruise) did happen, it's not a big deal. None of us cares.

In fact, even if he happens to K.O. me by accident, I'd just shrug - so far it never happened, but it's part of boxing, no issues... .

I will probably talk it through that he may touch me, but he should watch out not to injure me... .not to break my nose and such... .although it seems like there is not even any need of talking - he picked it up right away "automatically" after I removed the boundary without saying anything.

What does that teach him when he gets angry with someone else, if he thinks this is Ok?

I thought being a trained fighter was about discipline not lashing out just because you are in a bad mood.
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« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2014, 06:46:37 AM »

I don't see my role as teaching anyone any lessons.

I see my role as being safe and happy with him, and this is what boundaries are for - to provide the environment where I am reasonably safe and happy.
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« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2014, 07:08:02 AM »

I don't see my role as teaching anyone any lessons.

I see my role as being safe and happy with him, and this is what boundaries are for - to provide the environment where I am reasonably safe and happy.

We all "teach" the people around us what is and isn't OK to do around us.  Most of the time this is something that we do unconsciously.  When you start getting into complex behavior problems... .such as BPD traits... .it is very important... .VERY IMPORTANT  that we evaluate all the messages and lessons that we are sending the pwBPD. 

That evaluation is done from the point of view of how a pwBPD will normally interpret something... .not from the point of view of the person sending the message.

This is a critical concept to understand, believe... .and practice.

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« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2014, 07:19:04 AM »

Yeah well. As a human, most probably I can't evaluate all the messages and lessons... .Especially if they are also unconscious for me.

Myself, I simply got relaxed and I do not perceive occasional "gestures" as violence anymore - kinda same way as you don't file a complaint against a friend who would pat you on the back - and if so, why would I worry about it? This is why I moved the boundary.
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« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2014, 08:55:09 AM »

Yeah well. As a human, most probably I can't evaluate all the messages and lessons... .Especially if they are also unconscious for me.

Myself, I simply got relaxed and I do not perceive occasional "gestures" as violence anymore - kinda same way as you don't file a complaint against a friend who would pat you on the back - and if so, why would I worry about it? This is why I moved the boundary.

You are right in that the "messages and lessons" are just general guides that most people find most likely to produce favorable results. However, everyone and every relationship is different.

Boundaries are, as you say, protecting you and not controlling your partner. So it is not really a boundary issue you have. I dont set my boundaries around things that others probably would, only at a point I believe are past what I can tolerate without building resentment.

What areas do you believe that you struggle with that you would like to investigate further?  You don't seem to have a problem with JADE, as your earlier post indicates you can just let things wash or call a spade a spade when you need to.

Your methods of mutual sparring to work out your differences are probably worth looking into further as separate issue.

Maybe you would like to start a topic of your own to discuss this as it would be interesting to see this from all aspects. How it affects you? How it affects him? Is it helping in the long run or not, and what lessons can be learned from it. Aggression cannot always be stopped but there are many ways in which it can be diverted so that it is less destructive in the long run.

Would you be interested in doing that?
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AnnaK
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« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2014, 12:05:59 PM »

Yeah well. As a human, most probably I can't evaluate all the messages and lessons... .Especially if they are also unconscious for me.

Myself, I simply got relaxed and I do not perceive occasional "gestures" as violence anymore - kinda same way as you don't file a complaint against a friend who would pat you on the back - and if so, why would I worry about it? This is why I moved the boundary.

You are right in that the "messages and lessons" are just general guides that most people find most likely to produce favorable results. However, everyone and every relationship is different.

Boundaries are, as you say, protecting you and not controlling your partner. So it is not really a boundary issue you have. I dont set my boundaries around things that others probably would, only at a point I believe are past what I can tolerate without building resentment.

What areas do you believe that you struggle with that you would like to investigate further?  You don't seem to have a problem with JADE, as your earlier post indicates you can just let things wash or call a spade a spade when you need to.

Your methods of mutual sparring to work out your differences are probably worth looking into further as separate issue.

Maybe you would like to start a topic of your own to discuss this as it would be interesting to see this from all aspects. How it affects you? How it affects him? Is it helping in the long run or not, and what lessons can be learned from it. Aggression cannot always be stopped but there are many ways in which it can be diverted so that it is less destructive in the long run.

Would you be interested in doing that?

Well, first of all, to clarify the misunderstanding. We spar as a sport, not as a way to resolve the communication issues. It's not like who loses - goes to wash the dishes. I spar for my own pleasure, I spar in Spain just as eagerly as I spar with him (I go to gym), and I don't see myself in any way deprived - I enjoy "doing gloves", as they call it in my gym.


Then problems.

Right now I don't know, I don't seem to have any specific question. We are long-distance now, I am returning to India in 1 week.  I am indeed good at calling a spade a spade - but I suppose I lack on validation techniques. Mostly it was because when criticised, most people get on defensive or get angry (pretty much what is called JADE) - and I was no exception. That pretty much kills empathy - until the anger passes. I was not saying much, but then he'd reproach me in the "tense body posture" and rage about this issue :-) . I started to observe myself and realised that indeed... .I get a little tense when I am being criticised - and I suppose it's natural :-)

I then found a way to avoid the "tense body posture" (as I posted earlier) and as a bonus - to retain clarity of mind and my normal level of empathy. Let's see what will come next... .

I mentioned this about sparrings just in the context of setting a boundary. I did set a boundary, I did not have to "run and hide" to set it - and it worked while I needed it.
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Marvis
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« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2014, 02:22:44 PM »

 Going on day 4 of silence. Last time this happened I tried "doing the opposite of what he says he wants" only to be met with "I can't be around you or anyone for that matter. I'll just say something bad and hurt you more." The isolation and loneliness I'm feeling is so overwhelming.  It hurts my heart. My self esteem is at an all time low. I'm not eating, sleep doesn't come easily or at all, I feel like I'm "on guard" constantly.  I'm not sure why I woke up feeling full on dread for the day. I just want him to be ok. I know there's not a whole lot I can do to help him, he has to want to help himself first but that doesn't make my love and support go away even though right now I'm sure he thinks I don't care.  I'm just so frustrated for him and his feelings and for me because I can't seem to figure out how to deal with things in an acceptable manner.  But then again,  to an uBPD, is there an acceptable for anything?
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AnnaK
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« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2014, 03:45:20 PM »

Going on day 4 of silence. Last time this happened I tried "doing the opposite of what he says he wants" only to be met with "I can't be around you or anyone for that matter. I'll just say something bad and hurt you more." The isolation and loneliness I'm feeling is so overwhelming.  It hurts my heart. My self esteem is at an all time low. I'm not eating, sleep doesn't come easily or at all, I feel like I'm "on guard" constantly.  I'm not sure why I woke up feeling full on dread for the day. I just want him to be ok. I know there's not a whole lot I can do to help him, he has to want to help himself first but that doesn't make my love and support go away even though right now I'm sure he thinks I don't care.  I'm just so frustrated for him and his feelings and for me because I can't seem to figure out how to deal with things in an acceptable manner.  But then again,  to an uBPD, is there an acceptable for anything?

Sounds like you need to start from yourself. What can make you feel better when you are stressed out? Do some sports - it increases the serotonin level in the brain and relieves the stress.

Eat bananas Smiling (click to insert in post) They also increase the serotonin level. So does ice-cream, so do eggplants.

Try to sort out your emotions. Are YOU still feeling angry at him for lashing at you?

As a last resort - try Valeriana Root pills or tea. It pretty much shuts down your emotions and gives you a break.

If you still feel angry - practice forgiveness. Repeat the mantra "I forgive you FIRSTNAME LASTNAME for everything you've done to me, no matter if you want to be forgiven or not. I forgive you and wish you all the best of health, both physical and mental" (there are other methods for forgiveness, try googling, but I like this one)

After you are done cleaning up your own emotions, you should feel better and feel capable of smiling at him without feeling any inconvenience and regardless of his mood. This is like a sign that YOUR emotions are cleaned out.

At this point, you can begin the slow re-approach. Suggest him some food, ask him if he needs something from the grocery store, if you are going there, etc. etc. - those little favours. He might snap at you - shrug and carry on. Wait out and again suggest him another small favour.

That way he'll get the message that you are trying to be friendly and not trying to reprimand him, and perhaps he'll end up letting go of his anger too. Maybe not right away - but who can do it right away?

With my uBPDbf we constantly end up in the "silent treatment" cell of the game for one reason or another (or without reason) - well, that's how we usually get out of it, just trying to minimise the losses... .
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AnnaK
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« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2014, 03:53:47 PM »

to be met with "I can't be around you or anyone for that matter. I'll just say something bad and hurt you more."

Believe him. He knows what he is saying - he WILL say something bad and most probably - it will hurt you more. He can't help it. He is in fact isolating himself out of best intentions - to spare you the pain.

So it now becomes your responsibility to learn the right techniques to control your own emotions in such a way, that you can safely be around him even when he is being a "bad guy". Your own emotions are way easier to control than those of other people - so start from there.

After he sees that you are strong enough to take whatever he is able to give (sometimes it's not something pretty), he won't be isolating that much, I suppose.
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waverider
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If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2014, 05:52:07 PM »

Marvis, as AnnaK points out you feeling touches of resentment and depression, this keeps you stuck in victim mode...

The boost, or rescue, that you feel you need, he is at least being honest and telling you he is incapable of providing.

It will be up to you to establish your own foundation to support yourself in times of need, with the help of others who are capable of giving you a boost. Isolation is a common result and needs to be avoided, as at times like this it will make everything feel so much worse.

To survive a BPD relationship you need to be a strong individual person within a relationship. The traditional grafting that occurs in relationships can cripple you, as you end up feeding through the same damaged roots. You need to be a stand alone person who is not wholly dependent on which way the wind blows him, otherwise you will always be trying to follow but always one step out of sync.

Helping him is not the same as providing what he wants, even if he interprets these wants as "needs'. They are two different things pwBPD struggle to differentiate between wants and needs.
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