Not JADEing during dysregulation help

[AnnaK]

I don't see my role as teaching anyone any lessons.

I see my role as being safe and happy with him, and this is what boundaries are for - to provide the environment where I am reasonably safe and happy.

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[formflier]

I don't see my role as teaching anyone any lessons.

I see my role as being safe and happy with him, and this is what boundaries are for - to provide the environment where I am reasonably safe and happy.

We all "teach" the people around us what is and isn't OK to do around us.  Most of the time this is something that we do unconsciously.  When you start getting into complex behavior problems... .such as BPD traits... .it is very important... .VERY IMPORTANT  that we evaluate all the messages and lessons that we are sending the pwBPD. 

That evaluation is done from the point of view of how a pwBPD will normally interpret something... .not from the point of view of the person sending the message.

This is a critical concept to understand, believe... .and practice.

[AnnaK]

Yeah well. As a human, most probably I can't evaluate all the messages and lessons... .Especially if they are also unconscious for me.

Myself, I simply got relaxed and I do not perceive occasional "gestures" as violence anymore - kinda same way as you don't file a complaint against a friend who would pat you on the back - and if so, why would I worry about it? This is why I moved the boundary.

[waverider]

Yeah well. As a human, most probably I can't evaluate all the messages and lessons... .Especially if they are also unconscious for me.

Myself, I simply got relaxed and I do not perceive occasional "gestures" as violence anymore - kinda same way as you don't file a complaint against a friend who would pat you on the back - and if so, why would I worry about it? This is why I moved the boundary.

You are right in that the "messages and lessons" are just general guides that most people find most likely to produce favorable results. However, everyone and every relationship is different.

Boundaries are, as you say, protecting you and not controlling your partner. So it is not really a boundary issue you have. I dont set my boundaries around things that others probably would, only at a point I believe are past what I can tolerate without building resentment.

What areas do you believe that you struggle with that you would like to investigate further?  You don't seem to have a problem with JADE, as your earlier post indicates you can just let things wash or call a spade a spade when you need to.

Your methods of mutual sparring to work out your differences are probably worth looking into further as separate issue.

Maybe you would like to start a topic of your own to discuss this as it would be interesting to see this from all aspects. How it affects you? How it affects him? Is it helping in the long run or not, and what lessons can be learned from it. Aggression cannot always be stopped but there are many ways in which it can be diverted so that it is less destructive in the long run.

Would you be interested in doing that?

[AnnaK]

Yeah well. As a human, most probably I can't evaluate all the messages and lessons... .Especially if they are also unconscious for me.

Myself, I simply got relaxed and I do not perceive occasional "gestures" as violence anymore - kinda same way as you don't file a complaint against a friend who would pat you on the back - and if so, why would I worry about it? This is why I moved the boundary.

You are right in that the "messages and lessons" are just general guides that most people find most likely to produce favorable results. However, everyone and every relationship is different.

Boundaries are, as you say, protecting you and not controlling your partner. So it is not really a boundary issue you have. I dont set my boundaries around things that others probably would, only at a point I believe are past what I can tolerate without building resentment.

What areas do you believe that you struggle with that you would like to investigate further?  You don't seem to have a problem with JADE, as your earlier post indicates you can just let things wash or call a spade a spade when you need to.

Your methods of mutual sparring to work out your differences are probably worth looking into further as separate issue.

Maybe you would like to start a topic of your own to discuss this as it would be interesting to see this from all aspects. How it affects you? How it affects him? Is it helping in the long run or not, and what lessons can be learned from it. Aggression cannot always be stopped but there are many ways in which it can be diverted so that it is less destructive in the long run.

Would you be interested in doing that?

Well, first of all, to clarify the misunderstanding. We spar as a sport, not as a way to resolve the communication issues. It's not like who loses - goes to wash the dishes. I spar for my own pleasure, I spar in Spain just as eagerly as I spar with him (I go to gym), and I don't see myself in any way deprived - I enjoy "doing gloves", as they call it in my gym.


Then problems.

Right now I don't know, I don't seem to have any specific question. We are long-distance now, I am returning to India in 1 week.  I am indeed good at calling a spade a spade - but I suppose I lack on validation techniques. Mostly it was because when criticised, most people get on defensive or get angry (pretty much what is called JADE) - and I was no exception. That pretty much kills empathy - until the anger passes. I was not saying much, but then he'd reproach me in the "tense body posture" and rage about this issue :-) . I started to observe myself and realised that indeed... .I get a little tense when I am being criticised - and I suppose it's natural :-)

I then found a way to avoid the "tense body posture" (as I posted earlier) and as a bonus - to retain clarity of mind and my normal level of empathy. Let's see what will come next... .

I mentioned this about sparrings just in the context of setting a boundary. I did set a boundary, I did not have to "run and hide" to set it - and it worked while I needed it.

[Marvis]

 Going on day 4 of silence. Last time this happened I tried "doing the opposite of what he says he wants" only to be met with "I can't be around you or anyone for that matter. I'll just say something bad and hurt you more." The isolation and loneliness I'm feeling is so overwhelming.  It hurts my heart. My self esteem is at an all time low. I'm not eating, sleep doesn't come easily or at all, I feel like I'm "on guard" constantly.  I'm not sure why I woke up feeling full on dread for the day. I just want him to be ok. I know there's not a whole lot I can do to help him, he has to want to help himself first but that doesn't make my love and support go away even though right now I'm sure he thinks I don't care.  I'm just so frustrated for him and his feelings and for me because I can't seem to figure out how to deal with things in an acceptable manner.  But then again,  to an uBPD, is there an acceptable for anything?

[AnnaK]

Going on day 4 of silence. Last time this happened I tried "doing the opposite of what he says he wants" only to be met with "I can't be around you or anyone for that matter. I'll just say something bad and hurt you more." The isolation and loneliness I'm feeling is so overwhelming.  It hurts my heart. My self esteem is at an all time low. I'm not eating, sleep doesn't come easily or at all, I feel like I'm "on guard" constantly.  I'm not sure why I woke up feeling full on dread for the day. I just want him to be ok. I know there's not a whole lot I can do to help him, he has to want to help himself first but that doesn't make my love and support go away even though right now I'm sure he thinks I don't care.  I'm just so frustrated for him and his feelings and for me because I can't seem to figure out how to deal with things in an acceptable manner.  But then again,  to an uBPD, is there an acceptable for anything?

Sounds like you need to start from yourself. What can make you feel better when you are stressed out? Do some sports - it increases the serotonin level in the brain and relieves the stress.

Eat bananas They also increase the serotonin level. So does ice-cream, so do eggplants.

Try to sort out your emotions. Are YOU still feeling angry at him for lashing at you?

As a last resort - try Valeriana Root pills or tea. It pretty much shuts down your emotions and gives you a break.

If you still feel angry - practice forgiveness. Repeat the mantra "I forgive you FIRSTNAME LASTNAME for everything you've done to me, no matter if you want to be forgiven or not. I forgive you and wish you all the best of health, both physical and mental" (there are other methods for forgiveness, try googling, but I like this one)

After you are done cleaning up your own emotions, you should feel better and feel capable of smiling at him without feeling any inconvenience and regardless of his mood. This is like a sign that YOUR emotions are cleaned out.

At this point, you can begin the slow re-approach. Suggest him some food, ask him if he needs something from the grocery store, if you are going there, etc. etc. - those little favours. He might snap at you - shrug and carry on. Wait out and again suggest him another small favour.

That way he'll get the message that you are trying to be friendly and not trying to reprimand him, and perhaps he'll end up letting go of his anger too. Maybe not right away - but who can do it right away?

With my uBPDbf we constantly end up in the "silent treatment" cell of the game for one reason or another (or without reason) - well, that's how we usually get out of it, just trying to minimise the losses... .

[AnnaK]

to be met with "I can't be around you or anyone for that matter. I'll just say something bad and hurt you more."

Believe him. He knows what he is saying - he WILL say something bad and most probably - it will hurt you more. He can't help it. He is in fact isolating himself out of best intentions - to spare you the pain.

So it now becomes your responsibility to learn the right techniques to control your own emotions in such a way, that you can safely be around him even when he is being a "bad guy". Your own emotions are way easier to control than those of other people - so start from there.

After he sees that you are strong enough to take whatever he is able to give (sometimes it's not something pretty), he won't be isolating that much, I suppose.

[waverider]

Marvis, as AnnaK points out you feeling touches of resentment and depression, this keeps you stuck in victim mode...

The boost, or rescue, that you feel you need, he is at least being honest and telling you he is incapable of providing.

It will be up to you to establish your own foundation to support yourself in times of need, with the help of others who are capable of giving you a boost. Isolation is a common result and needs to be avoided, as at times like this it will make everything feel so much worse.

To survive a BPD relationship you need to be a strong individual person within a relationship. The traditional grafting that occurs in relationships can cripple you, as you end up feeding through the same damaged roots. You need to be a stand alone person who is not wholly dependent on which way the wind blows him, otherwise you will always be trying to follow but always one step out of sync.

Helping him is not the same as providing what he wants, even if he interprets these wants as "needs'. They are two different things pwBPD struggle to differentiate between wants and needs.