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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: X2b and phone time  (Read 484 times)
whirlpoollife
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« on: September 17, 2014, 01:50:47 PM »

When we were first separated, x2bh called both kids, everyday at all times of the day and would stay on the phone. Many days two hours. He can talk hot air.

Later the custody master saw this and was appalled by this so it got narrowed down to three times with limits on the time of day and length of time for each child.

If h didn't call that kids that much and he went over the limit every now and then I wouldn't care.

But he uses all calls , if he misses a time he keeps calling , leaving voice mails even when I said not to. He will call at 7pm if he missed the 4 pm call, and then again couple hrs later

My issue is he will not get off the phone until I have to tell the kids to get off the phone. They tell there dad they have to go now and "yep, ... .yep "They are old enough to this themselves but I know his power to keep someone listening to him.  I have told them there is a limit that he he allowed for call. I have told them in so many ways but I still look bad because I am the enforcing the order.

I have told my L , he said to just take the phone and hang up but I can't do that because h already makes me look bad enough.

I am setting the boundary to speak up to say get off the phone, I think h realizes this , so that is why he is relentless on staying on the phone.  

He uses the landline phone.  I have printed out records. Kids have cell phones, which he texts them too. I don't get as good of print out records from the cell phones.

I can't stand to hear the phone  ring six times a day knowing its him and I can't stand listening to his voice on the voice mails. It wears me out. I don't see it changing ,what can I do for me to deal with it. Maybe it's me over reacting
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momtara
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 03:22:29 PM »

No, you're not overreacting.  This keeps you under control and engaged with him.  I hate to set limits on a thing like this, but it's too much.  Since someone from the court already saw there was a problem, you have a little evidence already that it's excessive.  Could you draw up an order making the time more specific?  Your kids shouldn't have to be the ones to get off the phone.  It should be regulated if he is abusing the privilege.  (Only problem is if he tries to do the same for you.)
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GaGrl
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 05:14:40 PM »

Turn the ringer off.  Turn it on slightly before the call is scheduled.  Tell the kids when it is time to get off the phone.  If they don't get off within 5 minutes, take the phone away and hang it up.  Turn the ringer off.

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"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
whirlpoollife
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 10:11:47 PM »

Both your thoughts  are appreciated. 

momtara, you are right the kids should be the ones to have to get off the phone. In the order there are certain times, there is an hour opening to make the calls. Those times were made to accommodate his schedule. The kids don't think to call him on their own and I have tried to have them call him. He usually doesn't answer and calls back later.  I do not call the kids like he does. So I have no problem following the current order. 

Gagirl  his calls are  so sporadic it's hard to shut the ringer off. Once in the beginning when he was  calling  at 11pm I had unplugged the phone. That triggered him with texts to me as I was denying access to his children.   Taking the phone away and hanging up looks like what I have to do.



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"Courage is when you know your're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." ~ Harper Lee
GaGrl
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2014, 04:49:14 AM »

If he now has scheduled times to call, can you not turn off the ringer outside those times? He may text, but that's up to you to ignore. He may go so far as to call the police for a well-check, so have a copy of your court order ready. This is so disruptive to the peace of your household... .he ends up making you walk on eggshells in your own home, divorced and not even living there!

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"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2014, 07:01:12 AM »

What does the order say regarding how he gets the calls? You said the kids have cell phones. Since it's documented that he is abusive with the phone calls could you just change your home phone number and not give it to him? He should be calling the kids on their cells anyway.

Unless you have an order saying otherwise, try to have communication about the kids only through email. So you'll be communicating, he'll be talking to the kids on their phones, and you won't have to deal with his calls to the house driving you crazy. He can say you are blocking his access to the kids all he wants but that doesn't make it true. My step kids have a BPD mom who makes her feelings into facts as well. That doesn't make it real though.

I agree with others that you have to stay firm with the boundary on limits to phone time. Can you tell the kids to pay attention to the time when talking to their dad? Maybe if you could give them some way to phrase getting out of the conversation that would make it easier for them. Kids generally don't like staying on the phone for that long. They may feel obligated and it's just easier to let you be the bad guy.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2014, 05:11:25 PM »

Is part of the problem that you worry your kids will think badly of you if you terminate the calls?

I can't imagine they want to be talking to their dad for that long, even if they loved him to pieces 

One thing I've learned is that my son respects me more when I have strong boundaries. Even when he doesn't like when the boundary impacts him.

Can you tell us a little about what kinds of conversations you've had with the kids about the phone calls? What do you think their reaction would be if you all discussed the boundaries, and the best way to enforce them?

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whirlpoollife
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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2014, 12:34:47 AM »

I have explained the order from the custody master concerning the calls. They made rules specifically for dad to follow, he's not following them. If it went over or a different time every once in a while  no problem but every phone call? he is an adult who can tell time.   So enjoy the talk but also watch the clock for him.

Walking on eggshells with it because he is known to grill them for information. If I say one thing against dad, it will go to the GAL , who he chummed up with .   If  anyone has a boundary he will thumb his nose at it.

I was thinking to say differently  from , time to hang up to , your dad needs to hang up now.

Yesterday , first time in months he called at the right times for right amount of time that i didn't have to say hang up. What a difference .  One gram of being normal.

Even if all calls  went to the kids cell phones  I know I would still have to enforce it.

I can  try again to have the kids call him first, but then I don't want to be telling them to call their dad when they aren't thinking about it themselves.

All the feedback helps, thank you


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"Courage is when you know your're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." ~ Harper Lee
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2014, 08:45:13 PM »

How cruel and manipulating his behaviour is, clearly knowing it is winding you up, using his phone calls to make you and the children uncomfortable and guilty. I just cant understand, from a non point of view, how a person can continue this behaviour, that they themselves dont have a guilt or remorse or self aware trigger.

One of my ex uBPDs occasional rants is that Whereas when the kids are with him he  orders them to ring me to say goodnight, I dont do this when they are with me. apparently I dont do this because I dont want to teach the kids about having respect or love for their father. At least this has been said to me in abusive text messages several times.

Sometimes I can tell when they ring me and say a curt goodnight they are doing this undr pressure... .! But anyway they dont often have to because  I ring them myself after school or in the evening to see how they are. For me that is called being a normal caring parent.

I would like to politely suggest that he makes daily phone calls to them around dinner time, whioe the kids are with me. We share about 60/40, me at least four days a week. He has to call them on cellphone. The reason I want him to call them, not the other way round, is that I think a parent should be the one to take the initiative, to show adult behaviour. To show he cares and wants to hear about their day. He should be building their self esteem not the other way round.
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2014, 09:42:26 AM »

I can totally relate to this. Although DH’s uBPDxw doesn’t do this my uNPxh does. When were first separated and were cycling we agreed that the parent with the kids would have the kids call the other parent but both parents were at liberty to call if they wanted. Based on shcedules we have always done this between say 5-7pm. After our new normal was established I realized that this wasn’t working for two reasons:

1.   I would get busy with the kids, eating, doing homework, playing, cuddling, you name it and would forget to have them call so that would in turn have him blasting me for all sorts of BS.

2.   I never knew what time he was doing something or if the call would be interrupting and since we are the adults it made the most sense for the parent without the kids to call the other parent.

This happened for a while but once I was in a relationship and he started his BS ways with my kids he stopped calling and “insisted” that I have the kids call him, UMM no you do not get to call the shots in my home. Here is what I did with the kids and the boundary.

Boundary: Dear X in matters as it relates to the telephone contact with X & Z. You are free per my agreement as well as our parenting agreement to talk to the kids once per day. The only time that is not appropriate is after 8pm. I understand that you would like for the kids to call you but when they are with me that doesn’t work. Feel free to call them any time before 8. In most instances a call to check on them and see how their day was should not last any longer than 20-30 minutes, please be respectful of this.

They have told me that daddy has told them that they have to call him…so my convo with the kids D11, S6 went like this. I know that daddy says that you have to call him because he wants to talk to you. Sometimes you might think about calling him and you are absolutely free to do so but sometimes you might forget because you are busy, in cases like that if daddy wants to talk to you he is 100% allowed to call. I also made sure to say to the ex, in front of the kids, that he is free to call them whenever he wants and that if for some reason we don’t answer we will call him back shortly.

They felt sad that they were “instructed” by him to be the ones to call. I had to explain to them that it isn’t their responsibility to be responsible for his needs, in an age appropriate way of course. And you know what, they see it. They see that he is being unreasonable and controlling, WOW the things my daughter sees about her dad at the sweet age on 11 is astounding.

If our actions are completely opposite than the bulls**t  they are hearing from the BPDs and NPs eventually they will understand and see those people for who they are. And sometimes the kids might even believe the bulls**t but eventually our good, healthy actions will outshine the bad vomit they the BPDs and NPs are spewing. And it can be so hard and sad to watch your children suffer from it but in the end they will be healthier and deal with things in a much healthier way. But if we give in to the toxic bulls**t, live up to it and/or disengage from the kids, they are only left to assume that bulls**t might have been true

Much of what I learned in therapy is that we cannot eliminate those toxic people from our children’s lives, we can only keep the focus on the kids and help them learn to deal with the parent they have. In some cases you can push to have the kids taken from the toxic parent but that is only a short term fix for a long term problem. Maybe they stop seeing mom/dad and grow up in a healthy way but one day they will start to wonder why that parent so easily walked away or maybe they blame us for making it happen, then it is just another set of problems that are much harder to deal with as an adult than learning to deal and cope as a child in a healthy, non-destructive way.

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whirlpoollife
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2014, 09:00:19 AM »

I can  try again to have the kids call him first, but then I don't want to be telling them to call their dad when they aren't thinking about it

Strike that, not a good idea to make kids call him.

Cmjo, Swiggle, thank you for sharing your experience and insight with this.

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livednlearned
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2014, 12:32:22 PM »

I can  try again to have the kids call him first, but then I don't want to be telling them to call their dad when they aren't thinking about it

Strike that, not a good idea to make kids call him.

Cmjo, Swiggle, thank you for sharing your experience and insight with this.

My L insisted that N/BPDx had to do all the calling. If for some reason S couldn't take the call (clubs, activities, friend, etc.), then he was supposed to text his dad to rearrange a time. I still got lambasted, and I did find myself texting N/BPDx to let him know, "S is at a friend's house tonight in case he doesn't pick up. Please arrange a time with him to call back."

But my ex is different than yours, Whirlpool, and my son is different than your kids. N/BPDx didn't like the schedule, even though he fought for it. And S is not a big conversationalist, so their conversations were stiff and ended quickly.

I think the only thing you can really do is to help your kids figure out how to deal with their dad. "You missed going to the movies with friends because dad kept you on the phone. Does that make you sad? Mad?"

They need a good catchphrase to say to their dad so they can get off the phone with him. My T had to help me with this too. I tended to be someone who could never end a conversation, even if there was going to be a consequence like an expired parking meter or being late for something. My T told me to start off the conversation saying, "I only have 20 minutes because I have to xyz." She also helped me get better at looking at my watch, or at the clock, when I was talking to someone. I don't know why I found that so hard to do, but it's embarrassing to admit I needed help in therapy with this.

Maybe a simple skill like that will help your kids? ":)ad, it's good to hear your voice. I have to leave in 20 minutes so I can't talk for an hour like we usually do." Then in 10 minutes, a reminder. ":)ad, just want to remind you I have to go in 10 minutes." When 10 minutes are up, ":)ad, can you call me back tomorrow at such and such a time so we can finish talking about this? Like I was saying earlier, I have this thing right now and I have to go."
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