When to step out? What if you can not go?

[dog_star]

Another deregulation tonight right be for she went to her T appointment. Not surprising as I imagine that she was stressed out about going back. First I would just like to say what happed.

She is laying on the couch talking about her Mom (who is also very ill) and the some of the abuse she suffered in her "care." The dog has just been let out of the kennel after being punished because he did not do what she wanted. Anyway he starts rubbing by her looking for attention. She snaps at him a little, he does it again not getting the hint. And she full on hits him making a, thwack sound. To which I say don't hit the dog there is no need for that. Pop she is gone. She denies hitting him. And then say how wrong the dog is. And how messed up I am for standing up for the dog. Why don't I stand up for her ever.

Would people recommend that one should step out of the house at this point and let her rage? That is sure what I felt like doing and tried to do. But I could not because my son was not cooperating. He wants to me to stay and talk her down. And I am trapped. I have to watch the kid or she cannot go to her T appointment. The kid will not come with me without acting out, which I fear will just make everything worse. Maybe I should have just gone and let my hope of her going back to the T's go?

Yes I have talked to my son about how he is not responsible for the fighting and can not fix it but he still attempts to do so. Maybe I should have a talk with him about just letting her rage run its course?

There are other time when it is had to get away from her. Like when she starts to rage at the grocery store and we only have one car in the lot outside.

How do people handle the situation when it is hard to get away from their pwBPD?

She did make her T appointment in the end. But it was bad my boundaries did not hold up. And I feel bad because I was not fully true to myself.

Thanks for any input... .

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[Grey Kitty]

Leaving a kid with a dysregulated pwBPD is not a choice you want to make. Ugh. Neither is sticking around for it. Double-Uhg.

Plan ahead and look for techniques that could prevent you from being stuck that way.

Can you work out ways to get the kid to step out with you? Perhaps with prior coaching? (Depends on age of kid and how much you've said about the BPD behaviors already.)

Same deal about being stuck in a car--plan ahead, either by having other transportation options, or by not driving with her if needed.

One other thought. Your starting point "There's no need to hit the dog, stop it" was invalidating. Therefore likely to set her off. (armchair hindsight is 20/20!) Perhaps you could have dealt with it another way, like taking the dog out for a walk right then.

[waverider]

To which I say don't hit the dog there is no need for that.

This is a demand when she is edgy,how else do you perceive she may have answered this?


Removing the dog out of her way would have prevented her continuing to do this and would have been supporting. Remonstrating that it was inappropriate could have been left until some other time.

If a pwBPD is edgy, telling them not to do something is an autotrigger and best avoided unless you have a clear and definite "out" action plan/route in place.

[123Phoebe]

Before I could begin to seriously implement change, I had to get in touch with what my values even were.  I was reacting to his moods and behaviors, trying to fix him I suppose, as if I were stuck in this relationship for the rest of my life and needed to change things fast.

I value animals' rights, so a boundary of mine is absolutely no abuse or ill-treatment towards animals.  He's not abusive to animals, so this isn't one of our issues.  But, knowing that this is a value of mine that I hold near and dear, if he were to ever haul off and hit my dog or any animal, he'd be gone for good.  That's how strongly I feel about this.

I value a peaceful house.  So, if things aren't peaceful in the house, I know there's an issue that needs to be dealt with.  How can I keep a peaceful house, without bending over backwards to keep the peace?  

These are just examples of things to think about, questions to ask yourself and ways to get in touch with what's important to you, while taking the focus off of her.  When you know who you are and what's important to you, it makes it easier to implement the change needed to go forward, respectfully.

You may have already read up on Boundaries and Values:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

It doesn't hurt to read it over and over again, to really let it sink in.  We are the other half of the relationship and are the ones who are seriously working towards change for the better.

It can get better!

[AnnaK]

It's quite simple actually. "Yeah well... .maybe... .  but now I feel like having a cup of tea" - retreat to the kitchen to make a cup of tea.

Suggest her a cup of tea. Ask how much sugar she wants and if she wants any cookies with her tea. Call the dog to the kitchen and hand him out a piece of something tasty.

In small cases it is sometimes sufficient to give them only several minutes alone, to make them drop the accusations (deep in her mind, she probably understands why you never blame the dog ) )

[takingandsending]

Hi dogstar.

I feel for you - unfair to the dog, to you and your son. And yes, there are going to be times when we do get stuck with a dysregulating partner. I agree with the hindsight calls not to correct her for hitting the dog. You may have already been a little elevated yourself because she was already on edge and had already been taking it out on the dog before resorting to physical hitting. If you were, and you have awareness that your patience is thin(ning), it might be good to practice some self soothing right at that moment of awareness.

I find for myself that I now think more about when I am in good shape or poor shape to deal with my uBPDw's emotional dysregulation. When I am not, I round up the kids to play in another room or head out the door. If I still had a dog, I'd take him, too.    When I ignore my own feelings or don't acknowledge my own exhaustion or low coping capacity, that's when I invalidate, JADE or otherwise add fuel to what was just coals moments before.

Regarding the car, sometimes you can only ride it out until you can enforce a boundary. It doesn't make you weak or wrong, just practical. Give yourself some credit for doing a pretty good job in a bad situation, and next time, it will likely go a little better. 

[wilsonian]

dogstar... .when I was stuck and no where to go with my dBPDw in the past I did the same thing... I reacted to the situation or should I say to my emotions... .back then it was mostly JADE by that point... what I have learned is to stop and just listen and sort of just go into my own thoughts and not really tune her out but just listen and process it and learn from it about how not to get her to this point about this trigger anymore... again my saying are becoming... .stop... look... listen... .and sometimes the best reaction is no reaction... .just my way of how its made my life and hers allot more peaceful and rages have pretty much stopped... .now we just have little things pop up like (normal) couples... don't get me wrong will she rage again... ?... .certainly but then again I will not react on my emotion and think to myself how to avoid that trigger when it happens... .God Bless

[dog_star]

One other thought. Your starting point "There's no need to hit the dog, stop it" was invalidating. Therefore likely to set her off. (armchair hindsight is 20/20!) Perhaps you could have dealt with it another way, like taking the dog out for a walk right then.

hmmmmm... .but if this is invalidating then how do I let her know that I am not ok with her hitting the dog. I guess I don't get it.

[takingandsending]

Dog Star, I think what's being said is that she had already hit the dog, so nothing you could add at that moment was going to change that. If she was repeatedly striking the dog or looking as if she might strike the poor thing again, then intervene by removing the dog who is a total innocent bystander. But somewhere in the rebuke, you are maybe missing that her behavior was triggering you (understandably so), and that's the point we have a choice to engage or disengage. No one here is going to say validate the invalid - you shouldn't. But if you want to reduce conflict, it's important to step back when you find yourself getting elevated and see how to care for your own needs in that moment.

There's no perfect solution to these rough situations. Give yourself kudos for speaking out against behavior you find crossed the line. Be as loving to yourself as possible and perhaps try SET or another tool if she isn't already too edgy to receive it.

[Grey Kitty]

One other thought. Your starting point "There's no need to hit the dog, stop it" was invalidating. Therefore likely to set her off. (armchair hindsight is 20/20!) Perhaps you could have dealt with it another way, like taking the dog out for a walk right then.

hmmmmm... .but if this is invalidating then how do I let her know that I am not ok with her hitting the dog. I guess I don't get it.

Well... .letting her know that you are not OK with her doing something is intrinsicly invalidating. You can't change that. And sometimes you do need to do something like that. Here are my thoughts for you:

1. Learn when you say something invalidating, or what you are about to say is invalidating. So you think twice before you do it. In *many* cases, it is completely unnecessary. (For example, just shut up instead of JADE'ing) If she flys off the handle after you say something, there is a good chance that you just said something invalidating, and will figure it out later.

It will take some time to get this, but you will start catching it earlier, eventually before you speak.

2. If you do need to communicate something invalidating, there are communication techniques you can use which will increase the chances of you getting your message across instead of just having a dysregulated rage. SET is one of those tools--we use it because the Truth part of it is invalidating, and won't be well received on its own.

3. In this case, I would suggest that you wanted to protect the dog, far more than you wanted to tell her that it isn't OK to hit the dog. (Have you already told her this? She's not dumb, she is dysregulated. Her "knowing" this probably won't stop it.)

If you skip the statement and just grab the dog for a walk, you can avoid the invalidation and protect the dog at the same time. I'd suggest that approach here.

[dog_star]

Well... .letting her know that you are not OK with her doing something is intrinsicly invalidating... .

3. In this case, I would suggest that you wanted to protect the dog, far more than you wanted to tell her that it isn't OK to hit .the dog. (Have you already told her this? She's not dumb, she is dysregulated. Her "knowing" this probably won't stop it.)

If you skip the statement and just grab the dog for a walk, you can avoid the invalidation and protect the dog at the same time. I'd suggest that approach here.

ok I see the point. I did what to keep the dog safe in that moment. I think I speak up because I feel like justice needs to be done. but that led to a full deregulation which puts the house into chaos. this actually made things worse for the dog (along with everyone else) and he went and hid in his kennel until she departed. thanks gray kitty for taking the time to point that out.

[Grey Kitty]

You got it. My mantra I kept saying to myself in my head went like this:

"If I do (X), nothing good will come of it." or simply "Nothing good will come of this."

I don't think I ever said it out loud to my wife--it would have come out invalidating to her, I'm sure.

There were loads of things I really really wanted to do, that would have been right, just, good, etc. That I really felt like doing. However I came to learn that if I did something like that... .it was 99% certain to make the situation worse for all involved, like you said, including the dog!

This was my motivation to step out and avoid a fight... .to not JADE even when I was being unjustly accused of something I didn't do... .to just not say something invalidating.

[formflier]

 

Try to think of your responses and choices as good, better, best... .

pwBPD and their behaviors are complex... .and there can be many choices on how to respond... .

invalidating them is not even on the good, better, best spectrum... .stay way if at all possible.

If not possible... .then think about Grey Kitty advice... .lots of SE... .then a little bit of T.

If you feel you must say  something... .make sure it is soft... .reduces conflict... .doesn't create a hard line.

Personal favorite is "Help me understand... ."... .say away from using the word "why"... .

Taking the dog for a walk is good... .but could trigger abandonment...

Maybe "best" is taking the dog for a walk with an announcement of timeframe... .

What would have happened if there had been no response at all?

[dog_star]

Maybe "best" is taking the dog for a walk with an announcement of timeframe... .

OK next time 

What would have happened if there had been no response at all?

Good question. Maybe she would have settled down hard to say. The dog was out of there anyway so that trigger was gone. But I think what was setting her off was remembering her childhood with her mom. The dog was just a convent outlet imo.