Does Your BPD Mom Say Stuff Like This?

[jmanvo2015]

I am living with my BPD mother and NPD stepfather for the time being, though I'm in my forties.  Now, that I'm becoming aware of what BPD is and that my mother has it and how it affects her personality, I'm noticing many things for the first time.

I'd like to know what it means when she says things like this.  Can anybody shed any insight? 

This morning, out of the blue, she said, "You know.  I want to tell you something.  I think that Mr. XX XXX is just stringing you along (a man that I've been approaching for work).  I think you should move on.  I think he is just a player and he just wants to keep you in his back pocket, but he's not going to do anything to help you... ."

My mother has been saying things like this about people in my life to me my whole life.  Everyone is a "player" or somehow trying to hurt or undermine me.  She criticizes all of my friends and family members.

What does this mean? Why does she view everyone as "players"?  What does she accomplish by talking to me this way about people?  I honestly don't understand, but it's really skewered my view of the world and people. 

[MyLifeNow]

Most likely it means she feels threatened by her place in your life. A pwBPD doesn't have the tools needed to regulate their emotions so they project them on to someone, and it sounds like you're that someone. You're like a life preserver in a stormy sea, and she's hanging on for dear life. When she makes you doubt your relationships with everyone else she gets a feeling of security, because she has you all to herself.

Have there been events in your life lately that make it seem like you're likely to move out on your own again? I've found that these behaviors become more frequent and intense when it looks like I might become less available as an emotional regulation device.

[jmanvo2015]

Hi MyLifeNow,

Thank you for sharing your insights   

Yes, I think you're right - that my mother tries to undermine my relationships in order to keep me dependent on her.  It's worked.  I'm in my forties and alone without any real, substantive or intimate relationships.  But until recently, I didn't know what my mother had done.  I didn't even really understand BPD or know for sure that my mother really is both BPD and NPD.  Sometimes, it's overwhelming because great that I have all this knowledge but now I'm too old to make friends or find a man of my own ( cue the self-pity violins here  :'( :'( :'( )

I am not planning to move out anytime soon, but I think my mother does sense that I'm not reacting to her anymore because of all the stuff I'm learning on this site and others.  I also had told her that the man she called a "player" was a very smart man and that I could learn a great deal from him, so that probably sent her "threatened" radar into high gear.

It's going to be hard to learn how to separate what's real from what my mother has told me about life and people, but now that I'm here and learning, I'm committed to doing so.

Last night I was thinking that maybe I don't have to be alone forever.  Maybe I can start to take care of foster care kids.  I imagine that many of them have or had borderline and NPD parents like mine and I'd be able to give them love and emotional support and that might fill some of the emptiness I feel as a result of my own family legacy... .

[yogibear60]

Hi MyLifeNow:  I believe she is working on keeping your self worth in the trash bin.  My mother did her very best to  belittle and pick my relationships apart.  They were fat, to egotistical, to loud, to this to that.  It kept me off balance and questioning my judgement of people in my life.  Yet, when I broke up with a guy who had a drinking problem, her comment was “you need to take what you can get, as you get older you are getting uglier”   I could never introduce her to anyone she didn't have an issue with... .   She kept me away from her friends too... .after one day out with her and her friends the comment was " so and so thinks you are very funny and easy to be with.  I can't imagine why they would think that"  Needless to say it was the last time I was asked to join her in an outing. 

Living with this type of behavior makes it extremely difficult to keep your head clear.  I understand completely.  My mother lived with me for 10 years and during that time I made no effort to reach out and develop friendships.  I never felt that I could relax in my own home.  I could never bring people home due to her possible reactions and comments.   It felt like I was shackled to her and my home.  If I worked even a couple of hours later than she expected, she was anxious and irritated when I walked in the door.  I was punished for doing my job.  It didn’t matter that there was a husband in the home and I had called to let them know I would be late.  This is a no win situtation for you.  My thoughts are with you.

[Louise7777]

I see it either projection or she´s trying to keep you under her wing (and ultimately, she will control you). Have you noticed if she´s been jealous of your friends? My uBPDs are over-critical of anybody, except their own friends (people they can use). The more isolated we are, the more we are available for them.

[Harri]

Hi Jamn!  I agree with the others that your mother is projecting her fears and thoughts about people and life onto you.  Might I suggest that the next time she starts saying stuff like that that you, in your head, remind yourself that she is unwittingly giving you a glimpse into her sad world view?  Be a mirror and just reflect it back to her, either in your head or, if you think it is wise, say something like "I feel sad that you view the world this way Mom."  Usually it is not wise to say that out loud as it will just elicit more frenzied attempts to get you to accept her version of the world but I know some who have used it successfully to get them to shut up, but you can certainly say it to her in your own head.  It gives you perspective and you can use the words and imagery you build to set up a sort of barrier between her stuff and yours.  I think it is important to sort of build a shield around such people... .a clear shield so you can still see them but their crap bounces off of you.

You are in a tough position Jman.  I am glad you are posting here as it is an outlet but you can also use some tools that will help you to deal in the moment when she is projecting. 

Are you able to plan outings and such so that you can get a daily break from the oppressive atmosphere of home?  A gym membership, going to a coffee shop to get some alone time, maybe the library (I am trying to think of low cost options... .not that I should be talking about such things cuz I am not walking the walk i this area of my life   )  Volunteer work teaching adults to read or study for their GED... . 

It is good to see you here and being so proactive in terms of taking care of yourself.  Be well Jman!   

[jmanvo2015]

I just want to thank everyone for sharing your experiences and insights.  I'm still in that face where I'm just overwhelmed realizing that, yes, my mother is a BPD and now processing all of what that means about not only how she views the world, but also how she taught me to view the world.  Wow, it's really overwhelming to begin to understand the degree of her mental illness and the tools I'll need to use to cope with it.  I feel like I must say that my mother is not all bad. She has many good qualities that I love and adore, but that part of her that is BPD is really horrid and difficult and sometimes, just downright unfair!   :'(  I am really relating to what everyone on here has said about the High Conflict Personality and being baited into unwinable circular arguments.  Realizing this is making a gazillion light bulbs go off in my head 

I didn't realize until I got here just how negative my mother is about other people and how are comments (probably more subconsciously than consciously) are aimed at keeping me insecure and dependent on her - but it really is true! 

After I read these comments, I was listening to my mother talk to my uncle on the phone.  My uncle just lost his wife, who he was with for 18 years.  He's also an alcoholic and he's dependent on my NPD father for his job.  My parents have done a lot for him and so they feel that he owes them.  They very strongly believe that since his wife died 2 months ago he should be "getting on with it" now.  They don't have much sympathy or understanding for him. 

My mother has always been a "therapist" to all of her friends, and to me, too.  It's just that I didn't realize until I found this site what a really lousy therapist she is!    I thought the advice she gave me about life and people was the way the world is.  But now I'm realizing that I've been experiencing the world through my mother's filter of mental illness.  My mother is mentally ill.  God, that explains so much just to finally realize that.

These are some of the comments she was making on the phone to my uncle.  Reading them now is so eye-opening now that I have heard what all of you said about BPD and negativity and keeping us dependent on them and undermining our self esteem. It's like my mother has always painted the world as an enemy and her as my heroine so that I have to keep going back to her, keep being dependent on her.  Wow, I have really been naive.  :'(

NPD Mother's "Advice" overheard on the phone tonight

   "She's a manipulator. She's a con artist. She's a user.  Don't worry about who likes you.  Let them respect you.  Three strikes and you're out.  Don't tell anybody your business.  They'll just use it against you. ... .She get's what she wants with that act.  That's a dangerous person.  Those kind of people I stay away from... ."  

How negative and skewered is all of that? Oy.

[Panda39]

NPD Mother's "Advice" overheard on the phone tonight

   "She's a manipulator. She's a con artist. She's a user.  Don't worry about who likes you.  Let them respect you.  Three strikes and you're out.  Don't tell anybody your business.  They'll just use it against you. ... .She get's what she wants with that act.  That's a dangerous person.  Those kind of people I stay away from... ."

Sounds like your uBPDmom is projecting her feelings about herself on to others in this conversation and it also sounds like she's discouraging your uncle from seeking help from anyone but her... .only she can be trusted to help   

Your just beginning to understand your uBPDmom and your own relationship with her.  Looking beyond your relationship, how does she interact with others close to her?  I see things in the interaction between her and your uncle.

She seems to be doing her best to control your uncle. To make him listen to her and do what she wishes  and it sounds like he is dependent on alcohol, dependent on your dad for work, just lost his wife who I'm sure he was also dependent on and is grieving so he should be very susceptible to being dependent on your mother too (what does your mother gain from her relationship with him?) Does she use him?... .

... ."She's a manipulator. She's a con artist. She's a user.  Don't worry about who likes you.  Let them respect you.  Three strikes and you're out.  Don't tell anybody your business.  They'll just use it against you. ... .She get's what she wants with that act.  That's a dangerous person.  Those kind of people I stay away from... ."

I'm trying to point out that her behaviors are not directed only at you.  She is mentally ill and acts the way she acts with those closest to her.  I have often found that the people closest to the pwBPD see it but others not so close miss it.

jmanvo2015,  I'm really glad you found this site.  I have been dating my SO for 4 years he has 2 daughters and an uBPDexw.  I am always looking for the perspective of children of BPD parents so that I can be sensitive to my SO's children.  Both girls D18 & D14 have also just begun to understand their mother's issues.  They are where you are... .trying to understand mental illness, loving their mother in spite of it, trying to negotiate their way through difficult interactions with her, wanting to trust her even when they can't, trying to be themselves even as she tries to control them and trying to be independent even as she clings to them.

I know you will find knowledge, support and understanding on these boards.  Read the posts here, read books about BPD, and if you can get yourself a therapist.  You have just stepped on the road of understanding... .BPD... .your mother... .your family... .yourself. 

Wishing you well.   

[yogibear60]

Oh dear, I so get it.  I do have one more thought.  It took me many lumps to figure this one out.  Don't ever revel your true feelings.  I thought that the more transparent I was the more honest the relationship.  All I did was fuel her ability to slam me against the wall.  She took every that I shared and used it against me.  I know it is a terrible thing to say... .no one should have to warned about their mother but The more I tried to find common ground the more she took that ground and threw it in my face.  If I shared with her what I liked, say food, or things I liked to do, the more she would take the opposite stance.  I had to shut down and never started conversations and only gave out as little information as possible when asked a question.

Gosh, there is so much and it must make your head want to spin around and around.  I am learning to take in all this a little at a time.

[Turkish]

Most likely it means she feels threatened by her place in your life. 

That's a lot of it: fear of abandonment.

I could never talk about anyone I admired, because my mom would find a way to slam them. I remember talking about my 11th and 12th grade history, then government and econ teacher. He was really smart. Tough but fair. I made an offhand comment that he sometimes mumbled though. My mom said, "people who mumble are hiding something." Instant invalidation.

He and my 12 grade English teacher were the ones who recruited me into the academic decathalon team, and were our coaches. He found out that I was taking band 12th grade instead of his honors class. They convinced me to drop band and get into his class (thankfully... .the other class taught by the basketball coach was horrible the two days I was in it)... of course, when I cleaned up medal-wise in my GPA segment in multiple competitions in the tri-county decathalon, my mom took no end of pride in that, though she had nothing to do with it. I was always an underachiever, so I wouldn't have done as well competing with the 3.5-4.0s, but I would have done ok.

At the end of senior year, it was this same teacher "with something to hide" who got together with our counselor and got me to sign up for various scholarships which helped pay for my first semester at community college. My mom kept telling me what to do without helping. My "fun" mother (so my mom said to slam her... ."fun" mother didn't have to deal with the "real" Turkish, who apparently was an [insert swear word]), my best friend's mom, was also helpful, if nothing other than giving me direction.

[MyLifeNow]

when I cleaned up medal-wise in my GPA segment in multiple competitions in the tri-county decathalon, my mom took no end of pride in that, though she had nothing to do with it

Oh god was my dad ever the same way. He sabotaged me at every opportunity, and then when I succeed he goes on about how glad he was that he supported me and how proud he is. For the longest time I just couldn't reconcile these things, so I chose to forget all the mean and nasty things that were done to hold be back. It took me a long time to recognize what was going on.

[Turkish]

when I cleaned up medal-wise in my GPA segment in multiple competitions in the tri-county decathalon, my mom took no end of pride in that, though she had nothing to do with it

Oh god was my dad ever the same way. He sabotaged me at every opportunity, and then when I succeed he goes on about how glad he was that he supported me and how proud he is. For the longest time I just couldn't reconcile these things, so I chose to forget all the mean and nasty things that were done to hold be back. It took me a long time to recognize what was going on.

This type of splitting is hard. In private, we're split black; publicly, split white.

[jmanvo2015]

These comments are very insightful for me.  Realizing that the way my mother speaks about other people is based on her mental illness is a huge awakening for me.

It's both good and bad.  The bad part is realizing how much her distorted thinking has shaped my world view and probably contributed to the feelings of loneliness and isolation I grapple so much with  :'(  I mean, after all, how could I not have these feelings when my mom, essentially, taught me that everyone in the world was evil except her.  And, I was an only child without much family - so there were no other parental figures in my life who could tell me or show me otherwise.

The good part, though, is realizing it now because I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off of me.  You mean people aren't all evil, manipulative users who are out to get me?      You mean I might actually have a shot at meeting some decent people? 

I'm pretty sure my mom won't like this one bit.  She's kind of empathic and I think she's already sensing me pulling away as the result of what I'm learning in this site and also the things my new therapist is telling me.

That scares me a little bit because it means that a rage is coming at me.  Any day now, she'll find some reason to hit me with a tirade full of resentment about how much she does for me and how ungrateful and selfish I am. Sigh.   :'(

On a positive note, I love all these little emoticons.  They make me smile and I sure do need that right now!   

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Jmanvo!

I'm so glad you are posting here with us at this site! Everyone is offering such good empathy and understanding and advice, and look at how many friends you have here already! So don't worry that you feel like you are alone and isolated because you are not. We've got your back!

I want to commend you on your courage to move back home. The difference this time is that you have had the blinders drop and you are aware. What a huge accomplishment that is! It is hard, overwhelming, head spinning, and often more than we can handle when the blinders drop but take it one step at a time. One of the first things my T told me I needed to do when I said I was ready to start working on my childhood issues related to my uBPDmom:  he wanted the names of 7 to 10 people who would be my support network. They didn't necessarily need to be people who I verbally vomited on the story of my life. They needed to be safe people. Someone whom I could laugh with, go to a movie or meal with, take a walk with, knit with, receive support from, share some of my story with, whomever.  I was 49, and how in the world was I going to find 7 to 10 people because I didn't have that many friends who I felt comfortable with? I began scraping together some names over the next few weeks, and I think I came up with 5, maybe 6 names for him but they weren't my closest friends because I didn't have any close friends.  (You know, the whole 'you can't trust anyone' philosophy we believed because we learned it to the core of our being!)  He was so wise though, for truly they have become my solid "I'll help you get through this" type of friends. Without them I wouldn't be where I am today. All of this I share with you (and I am married) to show that it's possible to start over when you are your age. My husband is not on my list of safe people, so I had to look elsewhere. I didn't realize until the time I began in T that I had chosen a spouse who is much like my uBPD mom. So I find healthy things to do outside of our home and marriage to build me up and help me get stronger. You can do it too! Baby steps, just like we've each taken, one at a time.

Can you look at a library or bookstore for a book club? Do you have any crafts or hobbies you enjoy? Exercise group? All of these things are possible sources for a new friend or resurrecting an old friend and becoming reacquainted. One of the great skills most of us survivors developed is resilience and creativity. You have a lot more inner strength already than you realize because you've made it this far!  So keep going, keep learning, and don't let your mom determine your life and enjoyment any longer.

Sorry, I think I'm getting off my soap box now and putting it back in the corner... .

Oh, also my take on what your mom is saying: it's a tactic to isolate you and cause you to be more or continually dependent on her, even as the other posters have said, including her abandonment issues. I mean, how dare you consider that you can think for yourself and not take her advice?    You can though!  As you reach out to others, you are still there for her, but you are reaching out and receiving and expanding your world without her.

Woolspinner

[jmanvo2015]

Woolspinner - the advice you have passed on that your therapist gave you is really good advice.  I am already starting to think on what "friends" can go from being casual acquaintances to people that I allow greater access to who I really am. It's not that I don't have friends - gosh, I have a ton of those.  It's just that there aren't any that I'll let close to me.  I had cancer in 2008 and was so disappointed by so many people in my life that afterwards I kept everyone at an arm's length distance. I realized at that time that I'm a co-dependent.  I'm the enabler and so many of my friendships were about other people manipulating and using me for various things.  Makes sense, right?  Since that's what my mom did!  

Since that time, I've made great strides in terms of quickly blocking out people that are emotional manipulators and I've grown so much in terms of both self-knowledge and also awareness of others' motives and intentions.  So, all that said, it's probably time to start selectively getting close to people again.

I'm going to speak about your advice to my new T and use it as an example of the kind of coping strategies I'm hoping she can also help me develop.  I chose her because she said she had experience with BPD and also practiced CBT so I'm going to push her to help me make changes in my life, rather than sit in her office and cry about my abusive upbringing for an hour.  I spent many years in therapy doing that and it did me no good whatsoever.

Thank you again for the sound advice