Any thoughts on parallel parenting?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So just had conversation with my xBPD/ND. He tells me that he is unable to co parent, despite wanting to- he just doesn't have the ability. He will have two of our three children every other weekend (S17 doesn't want to stay with him) but cannot promise to turn up at school events, show interest outside of that time or even promise to read emails from school, but he might.

He says that he feels no love or empathy towards anyone, including his children.

He says that he understands his behaviour is not how he sees himself, is wanting an outright diagnosis from his psychotherapist, cannot tell his girlfriend his thoughts as she will leave him, he suggests suicide in texts and emails to me which gets me very time, last time I rang his sister to share and let his family know as she felt necessary. Is that the Fear of FOG I am reacting to? Or obligation as the mother of his children, or guilt that I would feel if he did something? Triple whammy.

So I am looking at parallel parenting, I guess. Any suggestions of impact on children or how to explain to them why different rules in each house, which I am sure there will be? Should I try to explain his illness when they ask to S17, D15 who shows similar behaviour and S6. He has already talked of NPD and depression in front of them.

[Lmls]

So just had conversation with my xBPD/ND. He tells me that he is unable to co parent, despite wanting to- he just doesn't have the ability. He will have two of our three children every other weekend (S17 doesn't want to stay with him) but cannot promise to turn up at school events, show interest outside of that time or even promise to read emails from school, but he might.

He says that he feels no love or empathy towards anyone, including his children.

He says that he understands his behaviour is not how he sees himself, is wanting an outright diagnosis from his psychotherapist, cannot tell his girlfriend his thoughts as she will leave him, he suggests suicide in texts and emails to me which gets me very time, last time I rang his sister to share and let his family know as she felt necessary. Is that the Fear of FOG I am reacting to? Or obligation as the mother of his children, or guilt that I would feel if he did something? Triple whammy.

So I am looking at parallel parenting, I guess. Any suggestions of impact on children or how to explain to them why different rules in each house, which I am sure there will be? Should I try to explain his illness when they ask to S17, D15 who shows similar behaviour and S6. He has already talked of NPD and depression in front of them.

[momtara]

At least he has self awareness and is not going to play games with you, which is more than I can say for most.  Some of us have exes show up for events and stuff just to bother us.  It'll be better that you have most of the control.

A child psychologist might help the kids out if they get confused as to why dad doesn't care, etc... .this isn't my area of expertise but hopefully you can get good answers here.

As for the suicide, you are brave to clue other people in, rather than sweeping it under the rug like some of us would in the FOG.  He may be just trying to engage or guilt you but I would still take those threats seriously and document them in case he ever gets worse.

[Lmls]

Thanks Momtara,

I do read other posts and realise that my situation isn't so bad. The self awareness is there for my xBPD/NP but makes no difference to the outcome which I find incredibly sad and also frustrating - but I am reading a lot on this site and it does help. I feel a huge responsibility towards the children and guilty that I have not protected them more from this but I do also know that I did my best with what I knew at the time.

My D15 has similar traits to x and after threatening suicide and self harming has been under child mental health services for the last year. So there is some access to help here but it is massively underfunded and a year in little has been achieved and not sure if she is mirroring or genetic or just a teenager. Probably a little of all of them I guess.

I learned to bring the suicide suggestions into the open from my experience with her. Plus I am really out of my depth and realise that professional help is needed and the more people who know it the better. Plus if the behaviour is manipulative rather than sincere then my x knowing that other people are aware helps that situation as well.

I have got us through the last year, my S6 starting school where we knew nobody, my D15 struggling terribly with her own mental health issues and my S16 taking his GCSE exams but it has taken its toll. My confidence is low, my sleep is very poor and there are days when I am scared that I may not keep it all together.

[momtara]

I think many of us feel that way.  But your kids seem not any worse off than most families, believe it or not - I am sure you have kept it all together better than you think!  Can you give yourself a massage or good meal?  You deserve a break today.

[Lmls]

Hi Momtara,

I do think you are right and it helps to count my blessings and understand more. I'll get chance for a break once children are settled and sorted in a little while and I'll take the time to meditate. Thank you. I hope your day is good.

[Mutt]

Hi Lmls,

I'm sorry to hear that xBPD/NPD is unwilling to co-parent. That's heartbreaking for the kids. He has narcassitic traits. My ex has narcisstic traits as well and I agree it is sad. Her needs are above everyone else's including the kids.

Your kids are older than mine . My ex has a daughter from a previous r/s and she is 15 now. My ex is high-conflict and I saw that she was extremely difficult with her ex for several years. I chose parallel parenting after the break-up as a means to stop the bleeding and the conflict. I also laid down serious boundaries. It took time and I'm still parallel parenting and maybe I we can co-parent later, but I have softened certain boundaries and so far so good. Having said that, the FOG from my ex is still there but I'm indifferent to it.

Here is a little more information on parallel parenting and shared parenting. You should be able to find something that suits you.

TOOLS: Shared Parenting

Here are some techniques for parallel parenting from “Children’s Adjustment Following

Divorce: Risk and Resilience Perspectives” by Joan B. Kelly and Robert E. Emery

• Disengagement: Avoid situations or communications which might create conflict.
  
  –Don’t communicate unless you have to. Avoid communication about minor
  
  things.
  
  --Don’t tell the former spouse how to parent.
  
  --Avoid criticisms of the other parent’s parenting.
  
  --Avoid conflict in all communications. When your former spouse makes an
  
  accusation, don’t “set the record straight.” You will never change their mind. You will only
  
  escalate the conflict by replying with your view point.
  
  –Provide basic information only.

• Communicate by email or letter. When writing to your former spouse:
  
  -- Be factual and concise.
  
  -- Be business-like
  
  -- Avoid sarcasm.
  
  -- Don’t share your communications with the children
  
  -- Don’t ask the children to ask your former spouse something or give your former
  
  spouse a request for something. E.g. Ask your father if he wants to see you on this Sunday, or,
  
  Ask your father how you are going to be able to participate in the school play if I don’t get your
  
  child support.”
  
  --Limit non-emergency information to twice per month (more if child is under age
  
  5).

• Things to Promote:
  
  -- Ignore (rather than arguing back) when the other parent tries to
  
  tell you how to parent.
  
  -- Support different styles of parenting in order to avoid conflict. Even in happy
  
  marriages, people differ on parenting. Pick battles very carefully. Most parenting differences are
  
  not worth fighting over. E.g., bed times or cleanliness of a room or house.
  
  -- Accept that there is more than one “right way” to parent.
  
  -- Learn to be less rigid and more accepting of the child’s other parent.
  
  -- Don’t try to change how other parent does parenting job.
  
  -- Do best job of parenting during the time child is with you,
  
  without criticizing other parent. Children usually resent a parent who criticizes the other parent.
  
  -- Children are capable of being parented in two different styles.

Thanks Momtara,

I do read other posts and realise that my situation isn't so bad. The self awareness is there for my xBPD/NP but makes no difference to the outcome which I find incredibly sad and also frustrating - but I am reading a lot on this site and it does help. I feel a huge responsibility towards the children and guilty that I have not protected them more from this but I do also know that I did my best with what I knew at the time.

I understand that you come across posts from other members and see that things are not so bad. It's just as difficult for you I think because it is your situation that you have to live in. It's just as painful, that's my two cents. You're doing the right thing. Your compassionate, caring, and conscientious and your getting information on how to help your children.

I felt bad for the kids seeing mom and dad fight for several years. I can't change that but I have created a home that is emotionally stable and calmer for them now. Find it in you to forgive yourself    You're doing the right thing. I agree with momtara many of us feel that way. Take a break, you deserve it.

[Lmls]

Thanks Mutt,

Last night I got another text from x saying he had thought about it and didn't want to parent independently and despite his severe depression and anxiety would try to be there for the children. I am beyond reading and hearing what he says now without recognising that his actual actions generally fly in the face of what he declares. I sense that my acceptance of our situation and withdrawal from arguing increases his need to interact more.

However, I will never rule out the possibility of change, but am fast learning that time will tell and never to expect it to happen. I do believe that he sometimes genuinely understands that his behaviour is not how he understands he should react or even wants to react and there lies his depression yet he is still unable or unwilling to change his behaviour. Am I alone in thinking this? Am I alone in struggling to accept that even where his children are involved he consciously makes poor choices regarding them, his own needs are so imperative to his emotional survival?

On a positive note, I have just signed up for a course of non-violent communication. I am hoping it will help me restore my own home with three children to a more positive place.

It was interesting to read the info contained and some really positive suggestions are taken on board. I have just had my D15 tell me that she has texted her dad for a week and he hasn't got back in touch. She is raising a contentious issue of extra allowance and I know that contentious issues send him running or if pushed create eventual outbursts. If I comment in any way on why he may not have contacted her she accuses me of siding with him, if I contact him to ask him to respond I'll get accused of something from him for sure. Parallell parenting is really not so easy is it?

I have started stronger boundaries and kept our contact minimal so am now expecting, as soon as he is not in close vicinity to his girlfriend and feeling Ok, this will trigger more desperate messages with suicidal tones.

Mutt, I am very sorry to hear what you have gone through and am encouraged and impressed to hear how you have managed to deal with your own issues.

[Mutt]

Last night I got another text from x saying he had thought about it and didn't want to parent independently and despite his severe depression and anxiety would try to be there for the children. I am beyond reading and hearing what he says now without recognising that his actual actions generally fly in the face of what he declares. I sense that my acceptance of our situation and withdrawal from arguing increases his need to interact more.

You go it I'm speaking from my experience with my ex that has borderline traits. It's not about the kids. She likes to argue and create conflict. It is an attachment disorder. She can't self soothe. She may be experiencing negative feelings with her bf and needs to project those feelings. I may get an e-mail bomb. It's about her and not me.


Parallel parenting is effective at removing potential conflict with the co-parent. I needed court enforced boundaries with specific language as to remove ambiguity. In my case if there is ambiguity, she can interpret it differently than I and it's an opportunity to create conflict.  Parallel parenting gives me my life back with my kids.

I agree. I stopped taking my ex for her word after I arrived here and started looking at her actions. Her actions speak for themselves.  

However, I will never rule out the possibility of change, but am fast learning that time will tell and never to expect it to happen. I do believe that he sometimes genuinely understands that his behaviour is not how he understands he should react or even wants to react and there lies his depression yet he is still unable or unwilling to change his behaviour. Am I alone in thinking this?

He has to identify that there is something that is off inside. He has to be commited to do the work and get diagnosed and go to therapy.

Am I alone in struggling to accept that even where his children are involved he consciously makes poor choices regarding them, his own needs are so imperative to his emotional survival?

Yes.

On a positive note, I have just signed up for a course of non-violent communication. I am hoping it will help me restore my own home with three children to a more positive place.

I would also like to recommend validation. It's a simple and powerful tool. My kids were depressed and withdrawn after the split. The bf was introduced 3 weeks after seperation and he was sleeping over. He slept at her house and she at his with the kids. I was hurt, my kids were hurt. Having said that, I started to validate their feelings and it took a few months but each visit I saw gradual improvement. The key is to be consistent. Validate the valid. Don't validate the invalid.

Validation - Encouraging Peace in a BPD Family (52 minute video)

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

Mutt, I am very sorry to hear what you have gone through and am encouraged and impressed to hear how you have managed to deal with your own issues.

Thank you. It was tough before I got here. It got better after I got bpdfamily and I can cope and manage. Parenting with a personality disordered person can be extremely difficult. It is educating yourself, asking questions with other parents in the same situation, knowing what works for you and avoiding the pitfalls. It's taking control of your life back, I like things being quiet and peaceful at home. It was hard at first because she kept testing my boundaries and I kept defending them, eventually she got the picture. I couldn't imagine perpetual conflict but I put serious boundaries down and my ex knows I mean business.

Parallel parenting works for me but my kids are young and they're not teenagers. Your D15 could be playing both parents perhaps? The downside to parallel parenting is that sometimes I feel isolated with parenting as a single parent. I don't have support from her. I come here and ask.

[Turkish]

After reading that list, I realize that I do more parallel parenting than not, perpendicular parenting in some things.

[Lmls]

Hi Turkish,

What do you mean by perpendicular? Did you have a sort of plan for parenting or has it evolved?

[livednlearned]

Hi Lmls,

Apologies for peppering you with questions, but what is the custody order like? How recently have you been following the orders? Were you able to come to relative agreement about the order when it worked its way through court? I'm also wondering if your ex's suicidal tendencies are documented.

I agree with Mutt that your situation is painful and challenging no matter what other families are going through. Having a child who experiences suicidal ideations must be extremely difficult for you, and for your other children too. Do they know that their dad struggles with mental illness?

One of the things I realized with my ex is that, on some level, he knows he is not fit to parent. He sabotaged himself so many times I could only assume he was somehow trying to relieve himself of the burden of being a fit parent. Perhaps not intentionally in a conscious way, but somehow driven to thwart himself. Your ex may begin to negotiate the terms of the custody order so that he doesn't see them as much. If he is severely depressed, he will have a hard time just getting out of bed and going through the motions of life, much less care for the kids. If you drop the kids off and it doesn't seem safe, would you change the schedule? Would your ex be motivated to get a lawyer?

Parallel parenting is treating each household separately -- you don't try to coordinate or cooperate about the kids' schedules or doctor appointments or discuss what they are doing for extracurricular activities. Parallel parenting is not about letting go of the kids' safety and well-being. It's mainly to minimize communication and contact since there is a documented inability to work together.

I guess I just want you to feel confidence that you can put your needs and well-being first, as well as the kids. Your ex is a very ill man who is not in good shape. You have a D who struggle with mental illness to. She may need to be a priority above what your ex says or does.

And like Mutt said, the emotional/psychological technique of validation is going to be critical to the health and healing of your kids. The book Power of Validation changed my life. As early as age 8, my son talked about not wanting to live. Validation was perhaps the single most important tool. It was like magic fairy dust -- he was so thirsty for validation and I didn't realize how my own parenting style was fanning the flames of his deep sadness. I kept trying to comfort him and tell him it was going to be ok, or fixing it for him, instead of recognizing that he just needed to know that someone was listening, someone heard what he was saying. Someone believed his feelings were real and painful, and that his being was validated.

Really hard stuff to do in practice, but absolutely crucial to do in families where there is BPD.

[Turkish]

Hi Turkish,

What do you mean by perpendicular? Did you have a sort of plan for parenting or has it evolved?

I made that up. Lame geometry joke. What I really mean is that sometimes I'm going to flat out contradict what their mom teaches them and go off in another direction. She and I see eye to eye on many things, but morally in some things, or how to teach them to handle certain situations, it's going to be vastly different. With my kids so young, and the split not even a year, it's evolving.

[Lmls]

Hi livednlearned,

Please don't apologise.

For the first year that we separated my partner stayed with a mutual friend so to encourage contact with the children I would leave the house one night a week and every other weekend and he would return. He kept saying he would get his own place but never did and after a year I refused to continue leaving our home and he moved in with his girlfriend who doesn't want anything to do with the children. He didn't tell me had left our friends house and when I asked him he refused to tell me where he had moved, saying that he would only tell the children directly. I eventually found out from another mum at school after he told her during a children's party.

He still sees the children every other weekend but only from 9-5.

Via solicitors he stated two childcare options- that he would have the children either 50% of the time (this meant he would not have to pay any child maintenance) or otherwise only every other weekend and three weeks holiday a year. He had also made it clear that he wouldn't be available if they were ill or not at school and that my youngest would have to go to breakfast and after school club when he had them and during some holidays. We agreed to every other weekend as I believed that was the only way forward and the best option for the children.

Shortly after moving in with his girlfriend his narcistic rage of the previous year ended when he left her and begged to come home and for support. I did offer some support but didn't let him return, although he spent more time with the children. Within a few weeks he had got back with his girlfriend, starting to demand weekends free again when he is due to have the children.

He has just bought an apartment, but is terrified of living alone and from October is due to have D15 and S6 stay there every other weekend. my S16 doesn't want to stay there.

It seems to me that much of our recent conflict is about parenting. He has promised the children to do things but then just doesn't, he knows our agreement and has eventually signed legal separation documents regarding time with the children but then tries to renege on that. I think it is pressure from his family to keep the agreement.

I agree with your own situation in that he recognises his inability to follow through. He certainly self sabotages. His relationship with my D15 has been very strained and although she has left him messages he has not returned her calls for the past 4 days. The older two children know that he is depressed but not to what extent. My S16 sums up his dad's efforts  to connect by saying "he wasn't interested in me when he lived here, why is he pretending to be now?" It made me realise how much I buffered their relationships with their dad when we were together and I found it very hard to stop doing that and there have been consequences for them I am sure.

I have texts and emails that intonate his suicidal thoughts. He has also worried that he may lose it with the children but he has had OCD thoughts like this before and I have taken professional advice that this is all they are likely to be, although I have asked him if he feels this to be real to inform his parents who can call me at any time.

It is strange, he tells me these things but says that he cannot tell his girlfriend as she thinks him too needy and would leave him. He tells me that he can barely get out of bed but continues to work, is going on holiday this week and planning things for next year. When I point this out he says that this is because his girlfriend wants to and he just goes along with it.  I really don't know if he is playing me or being honest when he tells me how he feels.

I do understand and am compassionate to how he must feel but we cannot carry on as we have over the past 17 months- it has taken too much of a toll on me and this in turn affects my ability to,parent as well as possible.

I watched the validation video and will order the book. It was incredibly interesting and I'll try to implement it.

That is where my priorities lie just now. Certainly disengaging from my ex calms me enough to put that energy into rebuilding our lives. I just need to work out the best way!

[livednlearned]

That's a lot to go through, Lmls. It sounds like you are tired of having him set the pace, and he is not consistent and has very little follow through. It's reassuring to an extent that specialists think his suicidal ideation is part of his OCD and not something he is likely to act on. You are hanging on to this documentation, and that's good -- in the event he has some kind of episode, you'll have a pattern of behavior to point to if needed.

Some people believe that a year of parallel parenting during the first year is helpful in high-conflict divorce, to establish very clear boundaries and to heal from the relationship. This is often good for the kids -- they can really feel the stress and tension, often much more than we give them credit for. A lot of times, we ourselves are so accustomed to the conflict and hostility that it's hard to remember what a peaceful calm home even feels like.

It's great that you ordered a copy of Power of Validation. I fell into the habit of not discussing my ex when I was parallel parenting, and I think this hurt my son a lot. He thought that we didn't talk about his dad, but he really needed to help make sense of his dad's behavior and when he came home, he didn't have me to talk to  :'(  I finally figured it out, but it was a few years before I realized it.

Your kids are going to feel that you've pulled back from engagement with their dad, but they may need to talk through how it is for them, and that will, to an extent, engage you in the dynamic. Use validation techniques to help them manage their feelings, and keep a good handle on your own boundaries so you don't get sucked into the issues.

It's a fine line and can be very difficult. I'm glad you're posting here and getting support. It really helps to have people who care and understand what you're going through.

[Lmls]

Livednlearned,

Please no need to apologise... .

For the first year that we separated my partner stayed with a mutual friend so to encourage contact with the children I would leave the house one night a week and every other weekend and he would return and stay over. He kept saying he would get his own place but never did and after a year I refused to continue leaving our home and he shortly after moved in with his girlfriend who doesn't want anything to do with the children. He didn't tell me had left our friends house and when I asked him he refused to tell me where he had moved, saying that he would only tell the children directly. I eventually found out from another mum at school after he told her during a children's party.

He still sees the children every other weekend but only from 9-5.

Via solicitors he stated two childcare options- that he would have the children either 50% of the time (this meant he would not have to pay any child maintenance) or otherwise only every other weekend and three weeks holiday a year. He had also made it clear that he wouldn't be available if they were ill or not at school and that my youngest would have to go to breakfast and after school club when he had them and during some holidays. We agreed to every other weekend as I believed that was the only way forward and the best option for the children.

Over this time he gave me a list of 10 weekends when he had plans and couldn't see the children.

Shortly after moving in with his girlfriend his narcistic rage of the previous year ended, he left her and begged to come home and for my support. I did offer some support, we talked, it was difficult, but I didn't let him return, although he did spend more time with the children, promising to stick to his every other weekend without fail.

Within a few weeks he had got back with his girlfriend, and started to demand a couple of weekends free again when he is due to have the children.

He has just bought an apartment, but is terrified of living alone and from October is due to have D15 and S6 stay there every other weekend. My S16 doesn't want to stay there.

It seems to me that much of our recent conflict is about parenting. He has promised the children to do things but then just doesn't, swimming once a week, repairing bikes, simple enough stuff.

He knows our agreement and eventually signed legal separation documents regarding time with the children but then tries to renege on that. I think it is pressure from his family to keep the agreement that has kept him in check recently.

I agree with your own situation in that he recognises his inability to follow through with what he says he wants.

He certainly self sabotages. His relationship with my D15 has been very strained and although she has left him messages he has not returned her calls for the past 4 days.

The older two children know that he is depressed but not to what extent. My S16 sums up his dad's efforts  to connect by saying "he wasn't interested in me when he lived here, why is he pretending to be now?"

It made me realise how much I buffered their relationships with their dad when we were together and I found it incredibly hard to stop doing that - there have definitely been consequences for them all.

I do have texts and emails that intonate his suicidal thoughts. He has also worried that he may lose it with the children but he has had OCD thoughts like this before and I have taken professional advice that this is all they are likely to be, although I have asked him if he feels this to be real to inform his parents who can call me at any time. I just have to trust my informed judgement though it does at times scare me to make that call.

It is strange, he tells me these things but says that he cannot tell his girlfriend as she thinks him too needy and would leave him. He tells me that he can barely get out of bed but continues to work, is going on holiday this week and planning things for next year. When I point this out he says that this is because his girlfriend wants to and he just goes along with it.  I really don't know if he is playing me or being honest when he tells me how he feels.

If it is true I would always understand and be compassionate to how he must feel but we cannot carry on as we have over the past 17 months- it has taken too much of a toll on me and this in turn affects my ability to parent as well as possible.

I watched the validation video and will order the book. It was incredibly interesting and I'll try to implement it.

That is where my priorities lie just now. Certainly disengaging from my ex calms me enough to put that energy into rebuilding our lives. I just need to work out the best way to do it.

[Lmls]

Thanks Livednlearned.

This site has and the replies and advice given has certainly helped. It stops the sometimes constant thought process as I try to figure out what is the motivation behind his behaviour, my reaction to it and the best way to move forward. I am very tired of living so much in my head!

Despite being somebody who meditated for years I really struggled to keep my practice going, switching to a moving meditation instead for a while. Since posting over the last few days my meditation is improving so the benefit of taking part is clear to me.

This can only help me focus more on the children.