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Author Topic: All my fault  (Read 454 times)
Marvis
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« on: September 18, 2014, 11:29:33 AM »

We're still upset about the dented energy drink can in my house apparently.  I just got told that it's my fault we aren't talking and it's my fault for "letting him waste away" I was told to leave since he doesn't think he can control his emotions today.  Thing is, I'm not going anywhere.  A) I have nowhere to go B) this is my house too, I have every right to be here. How can I get through to him? Everything I try to say to him is taken as an attack, I'm at a loss. On one hand it's good he finally said something to me.  He could be on the upward swing of the dysregulation, I guess you could say. But it's all still so negative.  I don't know what to do.  Please help.
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sweetheart
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« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2014, 12:15:46 PM »

  

Hello Marvis, i don't have any really great advice for you, but I wanted to let you know that I can relate very much to what you have posted.

I have learnt to wait out the negativity, my dBPDh usually withdraws to our bedroom and just ignores me as he walks around,making coffee etc. I used to try and talk to him in the belief that I could make him feel better,I was wrong  Smiling (click to insert in post) it just gave him the target he needed to project his bad feelings on to.

What I have changed is that I am no longer waiting for him to speak to me, because I now know in his own time he will. As long as you are safe, staying in your own home is the right thing to do, just getting on with day to day things. I know it's hard because it's not a natural way of being with someone, but for me it has gotten easier to accept that's how things are for us.

I am sure that others will be able to give you more constructive support that can help you deal with what is happening.

Sending you love and support 
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MaybeSo
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« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2014, 12:18:22 PM »

I often leave. But if you feel safe... .stay... .but don't engage.  Give him space and do your own thing.  If it feels unsafe... .leave.  There is always somewhere to go, usually... .The mall, a walk, a drive, the corner store.  I agree he may be coming out of dysregulation but don't push it... .and carry on with your own activities.  Later I might make a cup of tea or something and bring it to my partner (but don't get into a whole talking thing, just leave it alone)... .and I would do that not like... .here please don't hurt me or don't be mad at me... .no way... .but just as a fly-by friendliness gesture.  And move along.  Just, "thought you might like some tea" and move along... .But you know your partner and I don't, my partner would respond well to a friendliness gesture like that... .for other folks it might stimulate more dysregulation and he will be off again on the dented can... .'now you give me tea! but you gave me a dented can yesterday, oh the pain!"



By the way, we of course know... .the dented can sounds small but it symbolizes something to him that IS painful.   Being given the worst or left overs or being the last or not being cared for or not feeling loved or important... .or something like that... .it definitely has a meaning to him that has history behind it whether he knows what that is or not.
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« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2014, 12:28:02 PM »

We're still upset about the dented energy drink can in my house apparently.  I just got told that it's my fault we aren't talking and it's my fault for "letting him waste away" I was told to leave since he doesn't think he can control his emotions today.

Like MaybeSo has said, what do you think is actually the problem he is having? Is it his feelings of--what? What did the dented can bring up? His accusation that you are letting him "waste away" is interesting to me... .Just what is he referencing (in his world   )? Is he expecting something you aren't doing for him, or giving to him? What is the deep down reason he is upset, sad, angry, whatever?

It would help to know that, in order to figure out how to deal with it. Have you ever read this Workshop: How do we become more empathetic to the pwBPD in our life?? It is really helpful in learning how to figure out where to start when trying to get to the bottom of our loved one's dysregulations... .

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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2014, 01:28:16 PM »

I certainly know this situation all too well.  And from my experience, there isn't much you can do except take care of yourself. I certainly understand your feelings behind points A & B, but I will offer this:  When dealing with a BPD partner, I think it's wise to always have some kind of a safety plan in place for somewhere else you can go.  For awhile, I kept a change of clothes in my car and had a standing reservation on a friend's couch.  Yep, that meant possibly leaving my house that I own and paid for.  But to me, my mental safety and peace and quiet was much more important than challenging her.  I think that is something worth considering - I know you feel like he is kicking you out of your own home.  But at the same time he is warning you of his potential to rage today.  Which is more important to you, being at home, or being away from his rage?
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Marvis
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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2014, 04:01:17 PM »

Took your advice. He talked,  I listened.  Everything was going fine, tears shed, lovey, making out, apologies were made, I love yous said, Then BAM! He leaves the room. I'm there confused. He went from happy to sad in a matter of minutes all the while I'm laying there, in bed, mostly naked, not understanding what just happened.  I asked him if he wanted some food he said no I just want to chill. I asked if it was ok if I laid with him, he said no, I just want to be alone. Wha Wha whaaat? I said alright ill be in the living room if you need me. I love you. Then left the room. What just happened? I feel rejected and so confused.  I'm replaying everything in my head and I swear I said nothing that could trigger him. There was no anger just instant shutdown.
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ziniztar
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2014, 04:19:59 PM »

I swear I said nothing that could trigger him

Yes, okay, in the non world that would make sense, in the BPD world it doens't. Anything can trigger a pwBPD, you don't know what it is. It might even be the fact you said 'I love you' and were overly validating so he felt invalidated.

B) this is my house too, I have every right to be here.

GOOD!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) You do! Keep that attitude up!

Excerpt
How can I get through to him?

You don't! I know this is hard to accept (why don't you check the Radical Acceptance thread on this board as well), but, you don't! There is no way to cognitively reason with an emotionally overflowing person. Logic or reason shall not pass. The only thing you can do is validate their current emotion, in order for it to pass quicker. I've tried to reason with my dBPDbf about a flat tyre that in his eyes was my mistake, and in my eyes (and anyone else's for that matter) was just a case of BAD LUCK. I said 'ok, I don't understand what you are saying, please help me... .you think I am the one that caused this?' ' YES' he replied. My dBPDbf has a strong internal monologue that is filled with punishment (the punitive parent in schema therapy). It means that either he blames himself for everything, or I am blamed for the tiniest, littlest things in life that no one could ever prepare for. I've accepted his shortcoming on this and know that when he's pointing his finger at me I shouldn't respond.

... .

I know this is hard   . It took me a few months to learn this lesson!

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Marvis
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2014, 07:15:56 PM »

I swear I said nothing that could trigger him

Yes, okay, in the non world that would make sense, in the BPD world it doens't. Anything can trigger a pwBPD, you don't know what it is. It might even be the fact you said 'I love you' and were overly validating so he felt invalidated.

B) this is my house too, I have every right to be here.

GOOD!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) You do! Keep that attitude up!

Excerpt
How can I get through to him?

You don't! I know this is hard to accept (why don't you check the Radical Acceptance thread on this board as well), but, you don't! There is no way to cognitively reason with an emotionally overflowing person. Logic or reason shall not pass. The only thing you can do is validate their current emotion, in order for it to pass quicker. I've tried to reason with my dBPDbf about a flat tyre that in his eyes was my mistake, and in my eyes (and anyone else's for that matter) was just a case of BAD LUCK. I said 'ok, I don't understand what you are saying, please help me... .you think I am the one that caused this?' ' YES' he replied. My dBPDbf has a strong internal monologue that is filled with punishment (the punitive parent in schema therapy). It means that either he blames himself for everything, or I am blamed for the tiniest, littlest things in life that no one could ever prepare for. I've accepted his shortcoming on this and know that when he's pointing his finger at me I shouldn't respond.

... .

I know this is hard   . It took me a few months to learn this lesson!

Argh! So much to remember to put in to action. It's tough stuff but I'm tough. I can do this. You guys are amazing.  Thank you
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MaybeSo
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2014, 07:45:46 PM »

Marvis... .If you were a military wife and your H was back from the front line he might hear the microwave go off, and react in a bizarre manner... .he may hide under the table or yell or scream or drag you into a room and barricade the door, and then after a while he would be fine.  You would be thinking WTH? and a psychiatrist would tell you he was triggered by the sound of the microwave, it may sound similar to equipment or alarms that signaled life threating attack that he has been through many times etc.  You would then 'get it' and know it wasn't anything you did wrong... .you would still have a problem on your hands but you would get that it's trauma responses from war.

What you are seeing is relational trauma responses.  Not everyone has only war time trauma. People can have things happen, sometimes chronically over time... .when young... .that feel traumatizing around their close attachments. The reasons for this is many and complex but it does happen.  It is NO different than war trauma, but it looks weird because none of really understand how being close or a 'relationship' that is plodding along normaly or even feeling good... .can all of a sudden cause such bizzare behavior... .but believe me, it can, and for many, it does.  Being close to a loved one CAN cause trauma responses that make a person feel scared, suffocated, shamed, overwhelmed... .the whole gamut.   The mistake is to keep wondering what YOU did.  The problem is when people totally personalize it... .as though it's their fault as individuals or that it's about them specifically.   It's only about us to the extent that we ARE triggers if we are close to them, because now we bring up feelings that trigger trauma responses and very unpleasant feelings that are likely embedded in the body/mind from a long time ago, with layer upon layer of reinforcement.  Closeness is triggering to some people because of their experiences and how they are.  It just is.  We can make it worse when we don't understand and start getting dysregulated ourselves about what really isn't personal to us... .it just feels like it's personal to us.  And it does affect us personally b/c it's a problem for sure... .but it doesn't have anything to do with you as an individual.  Does that make sense?  these are largely biological fight/flight kinds of driven responses... .and logic doesn't work with that... .logic is left brain, trauma is right brain.  those two don't talk very well at all.
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Marvis
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2014, 07:59:03 PM »

Thank you MaybeSo. That does make complete sense. My bf has been diagnosed with PTSD from childhood trauma,  what exactly it was we don't know and he hasn't been back to therapy to work through it. You're right, I absolutely cannot take it personally. It has nothing to do with me. I can only be here and be strong for myself and in turn him. I think I may have handled it 'ok' by asking him specific questions like about making food and if I could lay with him. Sure, I didn't get the response I wanted but I let it go. No need to freak out. I can silently feel rejected for an hour or so, he doesn't need the guilt of that on him or the possible "attack" it could've caused.
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2014, 10:38:09 PM »

Thank you MaybeSo. That does make complete sense. My bf has been diagnosed with PTSD from childhood trauma,  what exactly it was we don't know and he hasn't been back to therapy to work through it. You're right, I absolutely cannot take it personally. It has nothing to do with me. I can only be here and be strong for myself and in turn him. I think I may have handled it 'ok' by asking him specific questions like about making food and if I could lay with him. Sure, I didn't get the response I wanted but I let it go. No need to freak out. I can silently feel rejected for an hour or so, he doesn't need the guilt of that on him or the possible "attack" it could've caused.

As you keep working through this... .and coming back to these boards to discuss what has happened... .it will gradually get better.

You will get a clearer view of the patterns in your r/s... .a better view of what needs to be validated... .and what to stay away from.

For the "it's your fault" type of attacks... .how do you respond?  Have you tried anything differently lately?

For the incident where things were going well and then he left the room... can you get really specific about what happened in the few minutes right before that?

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Marvis
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2014, 01:58:46 AM »

Thank you MaybeSo. That does make complete sense. My bf has been diagnosed with PTSD from childhood trauma,  what exactly it was we don't know and he hasn't been back to therapy to work through it. You're right, I absolutely cannot take it personally. It has nothing to do with me. I can only be here and be strong for myself and in turn him. I think I may have handled it 'ok' by asking him specific questions like about making food and if I could lay with him. Sure, I didn't get the response I wanted but I let it go. No need to freak out. I can silently feel rejected for an hour or so, he doesn't need the guilt of that on him or the possible "attack" it could've caused.

As you keep working through this... .and coming back to these boards to discuss what has happened... .it will gradually get better.

You will get a clearer view of the patterns in your r/s... .a better view of what needs to be validated... .and what to stay away from.

For the "it's your fault" type of attacks... .how do you respond?  Have you tried anything differently lately?

For the incident where things were going well and then he left the room... can you get really specific about what happened in the few minutes right before that?

Formflier... .With this recent attack I responded by validating his feelings of abandonment,  how upset he still was about the g.d. energy drink, and everything else he brought up.  It made him even angrier. He wanted me to leave, I stood my ground and said I wasn't going to leave my home. He then temper tantrum ed because he didn't get his way. He went to hide. I let him hide for 5 minutes or so then I quietly went into the bedroom and laid on the floor next to the bed. He then jokingly threw a pillow at me and told me to get in to bed. We talked, cried, and had a general sense of understanding of each other. We were laying there just hugging each other, calm, almost asleep then he pushed me away and left the room. THAT'S where I got confused.  What happened?  Nothing was said. We were both calm and sending good "juju" to each other.  He slept until around the time I had to get up for work. I said hi to him, happily, asked him how he was. He curtly said fine. Then I asked if was off tonight, since I didn't know. He said yes, got up, and went and hid again. I kissed his forehead before I took my shower which he cringed while I did it and told me to just stop.  I told him I loved him, showered, got dressed, kissed him goodbye(cringed again) and now I'm at work. I hope whatever is bothering him passes soon but I know it's not me and I know only he can work through it. I'm trying to be the positive influence for him.
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2014, 06:16:03 AM »

Formflier... .With this recent attack I responded by validating his feelings of abandonment,  how upset he still was about the g.d. energy drink, and everything else he brought up.  It made him even angrier. He wanted me to leave, I stood my ground and said I wasn't going to leave my home. He then temper tantrum ed because he didn't get his way. He went to hide. I let him hide for 5 minutes or so then I quietly went into the bedroom and laid on the floor next to the bed. He then jokingly threw a pillow at me and told me to get in to bed. We talked, cried, and had a general sense of understanding of each other. We were laying there just hugging each other, calm, almost asleep then he pushed me away and left the room. THAT'S where I got confused.  What happened?  Nothing was said. We were both calm and sending good "juju" to each other.  He slept until around the time I had to get up for work. I said hi to him, happily, asked him how he was. He curtly said fine. Then I asked if was off tonight, since I didn't know. He said yes, got up, and went and hid again. I kissed his forehead before I took my shower which he cringed while I did it and told me to just stop.  I told him I loved him, showered, got dressed, kissed him goodbye(cringed again) and now I'm at work. I hope whatever is bothering him passes soon but I know it's not me and I know only he can work through it. I'm trying to be the positive influence for him.

I think you are doing ok at this.  Don't change tactics. 

Here is my take... .you are changing the dance... .and that is freaking him out a bit.  That is why his behavior seems a bit more erratic... .he is trying to get back to what is "normal" for him. 

DO NOT turn back... .keep up the validating.

Make sure there is not a hint of smart ass in there.

Next time he tries to blame... .try a soft gentle "Help me understand xyz... ."... .stay away from using "why".  This keeps him talking and keeps you from accepting or rejecting blame... .you need help understanding.

The key is that while he is talking you are trying to listen for the "kernel" of truth... .or the emotional issue that needs to be validated... .

Or ... .at a minimum... .figure out what NOT to invalidate.



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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2014, 08:08:26 AM »

leaving is not always the right thing to do, some pwBPD react very badly to that, as you are giving them the feeling of abandoning them.   

when I had an argument with my ex, or just needed to cool down myself, or left the bedroom because I felt unsafe, he would trace me behind everywhere, even onto the bathroom... .he wouldn't rest until I came back to bed, so we spent hours sitting in the living room in the middle of the night, both to stubborn to return to go to sleep, so awful :-(

in a couple of extreme cases, I fled to my office in town and slept on the floor under my desk  :'(

never again will I allow myself to get drown so deep in a r/s!

when I look back to it, I would now prefer to just hold on for a while until things get more quiet, just put on the tv, make a cup of tea, and wait until we both calm down, and then go back to sleep.

but ofcourse this is an example of a crisis, in a long-term situation it's more about sharing the place while trying to concentrate on your own things and let him do his stuff I guess.
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