Picking fights at 2am in a one-room apartment and forced sleep deprivation

[nomoremommyfood]

I have several questions/issues and no idea where to start.

My dBPD boyfriend of 8 years (supposedly, 8 years of "forcing him" to date me) was evicted from his apartment at the beginning of August. He has been living in the suburbs with his parents, whom he despises. His family encourages his pathological gambling while ignoring his deteriorating mental state; he's on SSI disability and not in treatment. He has become increasingly depressed, irritable, and volatile, exemplifying "walking on eggshells."

I now only see him about every two weeks when comes to the city and stays with me. He spends the weekend compulsively betting on horses, staying at the OTB for up to 13 hours, under-sleeping, going without food and scrutinizing my every move (literally - he's attacked me for standing instead of sitting or walking to the bathroom to get a band-aid). He's admitted to taking anger out on me and I know when I'm being baited. Eventually, he either wears me down or says something so brazenly offensive that I react with "I won't engage in this conversation any further." This is his cue to begin a full-on character assassination.

At this point, it's late at night and I'm trying to sleep. I know the best thing to do is leave the room, but I live in a one-room studio apartment. At 3AM, I can't easily go take a walk and, frankly, I don't want him alone in my apartment. He can't go home until the morning (when the trains start running) and it's too late for either of us to find somewhere else to sleep. He'll "keep talking until I respond to his grievances" until I'm worn down and hysterically crying (which he sees as "schizophrenic". I'm also grieving my best friend's unexpected suicide and he's been using the death, my bereavement, and my unexplained weight gain as ammunition - listening to those insults is incredibly disturbing.

I understand my situation is unique but maybe comparable to other "captive audience" scenarios, like being stuck on a car-ride or vacation. How do people deal with BPD partners in such tiny quarters? I feel it's better to stay awake than go to bed angry - he'll pick up the next day where he left off - but should I risk it? Most important, how have people handled brutal take-downs when there's no opportunity to walk away?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Compassion14]

Hi.

I experienced one night like this, on the last night of a 3 night weekend away, in one small room - and it was absolutely awful. He attacked me verbally, incessantly and cruelly for hours, and just as I felt I was going to have a stroke with the stress, he turned over and fell asleep - able to just switch off the total stress he'd just created. I was ill with emotional pain and stress. I woke him, outraged at his abuse and then lack of concern for the total emotional destruction he'd single-handedly caused. 

I feel similar claustrophobia and stress just reading your post. Forgive me for being blunt, but if it were me, I would be considering not allowing him back in your room, ever. I would be considering ending the relationship if possible, but if that doesn't feel like an option, then definitely NO staying over. NO WAY! It's a form of torture.

You don't owe this guy a living - and he's poisoning the precious life you have.

(Oh how easy to see these things when it's not your own situation - I fully appreciate this. Easier said than done.)

I feel ill imagining what you have to go through. It's not acceptable.

Good luck.

C14

[Grey Kitty]

You cannot expect the situation to change unless you make changes.

My "solution" was to avoid situations where I would be trapped by a dysregulated fight or rage.

The only things that stopped a rage were if I left, or if I was somehow hurt so badly that my reaction was more important than her dysregulation, or perhaps if I scared her into stopping (trapped in a car, and I was driving, and my emotions started to impact my driving... .not good, and freaked her out more than what she was originally upset about)

Given the situation as you describe it, you have no way of avoiding it except refusing to have him at your apartment for overnights.

Maybe there are less drastic options? I don't know enough about the situation to see any.

[lost6891]

You cannot expect the situation to change unless you make changes.

My "solution" was to avoid situations where I would be trapped by a dysregulated fight or rage.

The only things that stopped a rage were if I left, or if I was somehow hurt so badly that my reaction was more important than her dysregulation, or perhaps if I scared her into stopping (trapped in a car, and I was driving, and my emotions started to impact my driving... .not good, and freaked her out more than what she was originally upset about)

Given the situation as you describe it, you have no way of avoiding it except refusing to have him at your apartment for overnights.

Maybe there are less drastic options? I don't know enough about the situation to see any.

I honestly agree with Grey Kitty on this one; if it gets too bad, then it may be best to not allow him in your apartment anymore. I think you may need to set up boundaries on what's acceptable behavior; especially since he's at your place for the night; he should be respectful. Don't be afraid to put your foot down and be honest with him about what you can and cannot tolerate. I know it's terrifying sometimes to deal with our SO's anger; especially when there's no way to escape; and I'm starting to learn this myself that things won't change unless you're willing change how you deal with the situation (since the other party; BPD SO; won't change their behavior). I hope this helps.

[Evalon]

This has happened to me many times with my husband.  It's torture.    My advice is to leave the situation if possible.  That is the only thing that works in my experience.  I have three little kids now but I wish I had understood earlier what was happening in these situations.  My husband has "held me hostage" in this way in hotel rooms with our kids there, on vacation with other family members in other rooms and only one car, so there was no way to leave, on car rides, in the hospital right after I had my last baby, and many other times.  The hostage situation usually arises from a combination of physical impediments to leaving (e.g. only one car on vacation) and guilt trips from my husband.  He will, for example, accuse me of refusing to "communicate," refusing to let him tell me how he feels (that is, him verbally and emotionally abusing me), or causing damage to the kids if I leave. 

If you don't have kids, please leave.  Even if it's the middle of the night, get in your car and drive somewhere.  When kids are involved, it becomes even more complicated because they become another reason for him to force you to stay, blame you for scaring them, and make horrible accusations about what effect it has on them when you leave.  You are damned if you stay and damned if you leave. 

If my kids are around and it's during the day, I either take them with me and we go on some outing or if they have to stay at home for some reason, I tell them when I'll be back and I tell him to remind them of when I'll be back (usually later in the evening).  That way, he can't accuse me of "abandoning them." I have never left for the night but I wish I had before we had kids.  In your case, I would not allow him to spend the night.  You are in a good position because it's your apartment and you are not dependent on him.

[meerkat1]

nomoremommyfood - So sorry to hear of you situation.

I noticed a pattern in the responses here that I have been part of too. Vacations!

Seems our partners are highly prone to have episodes on vacation. We become situational hostages. I can't tell you how many times I just stopped the car on the side of the highway and just started walking. I could simply could not take the abuse anymore.  I think an 8 hour trip this past summer took us 13 hours due to her emotional outbursts. It actually became dangerous as she started to send the kids after me!

Anyone have a 'plan' or methods that have worked for these situational hostage crises?

I know avoid the situation in the first place, right? but that is not always possible for those 'staying'.

I wish we could just not go on vacation or refuse to go with them. Maybe after the past episodes it would be possible to suggest. I don't know.

I am afraid to even go on vacation without her. If we have a good time without her (which we would), I can't imagine the emotions she may have.

[ColdEthyl]

This is a toughy. I have a similar situation, where my husband tends to dysregulate in the evening, when the kids are asleep and we are in our bedroom. I could leave, but I'm not comfortable doing that since the children are mine from a previous marriage, and I imagine he would end up trashing the house.

I've had a lot of success diffusing the bombs lately before they go into full rage-mode, but there are times where I feel like I must sit there and let him yell for hours on end while I watch the time on the clock go by before I need to go to work, and honestly I wouldn't be sleeping anyways with that sort of nonsense going on. My own emotions are in turmoil if there's tension or fighting.

I don't have a good answer on that one. Still working on it myself. Right now, I put up with it. Luckily, those episodes are starting to get further and further apart.

[nomoremommyfood]

Guys, sorry for disappearing for a while after posting - I've been working more hours, revamping my apartment, and exercising constantly.

Fortunately, about 75% of the time, his freakouts occur the first night he stays and, by the second night, he's pulled himself together. Still, the first night is so brutal that I'm miserable and depressed the next day. Double-confusing, he'll spend most of his first night forcing me to stay awake until 4AM (or else I'm "avoiding an important conversation" while he tells me how he has no feelings for me and has wanted to break up with me for 8 years, if I'd only "let him." Last time, I finally told him I wanted to break up, too - but didn't want to make that decision when angry and sleep-deprived (again, "running away from our problems".

The next day, it was like the fight (wait... ."discussion" hadn't even occurred.

Judging from the reactions on here, I'm screwed. I don't feel right ending an eight-year relationship after a few months of unusual conditions (i.e., while he's temporarily in mentally distressing living conditions; I'm also not supposed to make major decisions until at least six months to a year after my bff's suicide). Neither of us have a car, which makes leaving in the middle of the night very difficult.

Last time, I actually tried to sleep in my bathtub - it didn't work so well. Here are some things I've considered:

- First, addressing this issue with him before he's dysregulated, if possible

- I can usually gauge his mood from phone calls before he arrives. If he sounds too volatile, he needs to wait until another day to visit

- If it seems like an attack is on the horizon, I can take measures to at least remove myself from the situation, if not the room, via working on some "pertinent, last-minute" work assignment that needs my totally concentration, via:

- Wearing headphones (and, if necessary, using them to take dictation)

- Moving to a different area of the apartment to work on my computer "without disturbing him"

- I'd previously been considering re-arranging my apartment to add a pull-out chair or chaise in the blocked-off desk area. Perhaps I could make this project a priority as it would give me another place to sleep or "work until I pass out."

I hope this doesn't sound crazy!

[Grey Kitty]

I hope this doesn't sound crazy!

I wouldn't say crazy... .but I also wouldn't say it sounds likely to give you peace and good weekend visits with him... .or avoid this sort of fight.

NOTHING you can do will prevent him from picking the fight with you. That is his choice, not yours.

All you can do is refuse to engage with him in it, and if you are unwilling to leave your apartment or make him leave your apartment, your options there are pretty limited.

[nomoremommyfood]

I'm sorry for bumping up this old topic. Actually, this is mostly a rant to work through the details of what just happened. I'm willing to try creative options and maybe give it one final shot, but I'm stuck between a.) how am I supposed to continue a relationship with someone who wreaks havoc every two weeks with no end in sight and b.) how am I supposed to leave an 8 year relationship (and because of living circumstances)?

A while ago, I told him I wanted to break up if things didn't improve; something I've never suggested. For about a month, it really seemed like he was trying to control his emotions (with all his relationships) and defuse blow-out fights. He stopped gambling on weekends when he sees me so he's less irritable. He started seeing another friend when he first arrives in the city so he has time to calm down after being with his parents before seeing me. He's been arranging two different "going home" dates, one if he's irritable and a later date if we're getting along. Before he arrived, for one of the first times ever, we went over "what do we do if a fight starts escalating?" He said "I won't let it happen" and I insisted we needed a plan, anyway.

All you can do is refuse to engage with him in it

Those were his exact words! He told me "you have to disengage," "you have to refuse to respond," "you have to ignore what I say." I told him the insults were really painful and that I thought it would be better if he both put on headphones and tuned out, but I'd do it and remind him of our agreement.

After four days of relative calm, I made an elaborate dinner for his last night. Apparently, he was worried about launching one of his band's videos

(he didn't tell me about the launch, but I still "should have figured it out" and ended up snapping at me over a cat's toy, snapping at him when I opened my computer instead of continuing the cat toy fight, and snapping at me for being "screen-obsessed," as demonstrated by "forcing him" into a conversation about soup an hour ago... .while we were eating soup. And who would want to date a woman who only talks about food?

The food thing is a dig - I've been counting calories and exercising heavily due to rapid, unexplained weight gain that doctors can't seem to diagnose. As usual, sensitive subjects are always the first target. Still, I disengaged! I told him the conversation was getting heated and I wouldn't participate as per our prior agreement. He hurled insults while I went on the fire escape, played with the cat, cleaned the kitchen, repeating "I told you, I'm not going to engage in this discussion. You and I both decided I wouldn't participate." He finally went into the bathroom for a while, then went to sleep. Success! I didn't engage and he eventually calmed down.

The next morning, I get up, ask if he wants coffee, and he won't speak. Apparently, I "don't want to hear what he things." I screamed at him to get out of my house and pushed him out. I have apologized for that and only that, because I don't think I should have to "take responsibility for my role" when he can't even tell what I did wrong. I haven't name-called, but have since been accused of "forcing" him to have sex, told "it'll be easy to find a drug-addicted schizophrenic to replace you," and, after eight years, I'm "expired milk."

I don't know where to go from here. I'm not only dealing with such a bad year, but having to hear the material played back in the cruelest way possible. Disengaging doesn't work - it becomes a fight topic on its own. Here's the worst part - I've been sitting this out while waiting on him to move out of his parent's house and return to the city and I don't think that's happening any time soon. He was supposed to be there a few months at most, then find a roommate and return. Now, he insists he needs to win something like $40,000 betting on horses to pay for an apartment. I didn't believe him until he actually won a sizable sum and it wasn't enough. I think he's just accumulating disability checks while alternately living off me and his parents. When fighting, I told him he might need to be able to come stay with me, anymore. He wasn't upset - his first response was to think of other people who might let him stay on their couch!

I'm sorry this is so long - I'm so heartbroken, I don't know what to do (or if we're even still together), and - if he's as easily over me as he says - what if he's just been using me?

[Indyan]

Hi,

For the last 3 months, my BF too has been telling me, his family and the T (everyone then) that "he was forced into the r/s". He didn't say that I forced him to have sex, but that I forced him to have a baby (I did hear him say he was forced to have sex with his ex).

In the case of my BF, it turned out that he's suffering from paranoia and persecution. He has been able to decide on NOTHING, I'm controlling everything and he's a victim.

For the therapist we saw several times, this is schizophrenia, or schizotypal PD, and only a treatment could stop his delusions.

There's a time where you must stop tilting at windmills and either let professionals/him deal with his delirium.

[Grey Kitty]

Before he arrived, for one of the first times ever, we went over "what do we do if a fight starts escalating?" He said "I won't let it happen" and I insisted we needed a plan, anyway.

All you can do is refuse to engage with him in it

Those were his exact words! He told me "you have to disengage," "you have to refuse to respond," "you have to ignore what I say." I told him the insults were really painful and that I thought it would be better if he both put on headphones and tuned out, but I'd do it and remind him of our agreement.

I screamed at him to get out of my house and pushed him out. I have apologized for that and only that,

As I said, the options of kicking him out or leaving your apartment when he's there are more workable ways to disengage.

If you just "try not to engage" and "try not to get upset" when he says hurtful stuff... .he can keep turning the hurtfulness up until you hit your limit. The way his disorder works, he's trying to get a reaction out of you, and will keep at it until he does.

Honestly... .I don't think you should even apologize for kicking him out. He completely deserved it. I think it was the right thing to do even.

Physically pushing him out and screaming you can apologize for. If you ask him to leave before you are THAT upset, you have a better chance of doing it gently.

I'm sorry this is so long - I'm so heartbroken, I don't know what to do (or if we're even still together), and - if he's as easily over me as he says - what if he's just been using me?

Yes it is heartbreaking.   

When it comes to questions like "what if he's just been using me?" ... .A good friend of mine said : There is no cheese at the end of that maze.

[nomoremommyfood]

He has been able to decide on NOTHING, I'm controlling everything and he's a victim.

Does he also accuse you of "always playing the victim" while simultaneously complaining of being "forced" to date you? In truth, the situations seem very close - though mine refuses therapy because he has so many problems, there's no way he can be "happy." This drives me completely insane - how can someone complain so constantly of being depressed/suicidal/etc., yet refuse any efforts to help unrelated to "get me a gun" [hearing this a week after my best friend's suicide... .a pure delight] or get me a million dollars [for gambling]." His family also believes he'll cheer up as long as he's winning at the horse track.

The man is on freakin' disability, has good healthy insurance, and vehemently refuses to use it, yet so many people would die (literally!) for that kind of access to care! Is it even legal to receive disability for mental illness without being in some sort of treatment?

As I said, the options of kicking him out or leaving your apartment when he's there are more workable ways to disengage.

This is true, as is everything else you wrote, but honestly not feasible. Kicking him out in the daytime is fine and I'm glad I did but, at night, he'd have to wander a dangerously cold city until daybreak. I'd leave, but I don't trust him alone in my apartment, particularly with my landlord on the other side of the wall.

It's moot though, because we're now in silent treatment mode. He "wins", I guess.

[Grey Kitty]

It's moot though, because we're now in silent treatment mode. He "wins", I guess.

Nobody really wins at this "game."

but, at night, he'd have to wander a dangerously cold city until daybreak. I'd leave, but I don't trust him alone in my apartment, particularly with my landlord on the other side of the wall.

If you let yourself be put in a box where you cannot or will not do anything but accept his verbal abuse, you lose.

He has proven multiple times, that this situation (him staying the night in your apartment) is not safe for you.

There are no easy answers for you. I believe that we make better choices when our eyes are open.

[Indyan]

Does he also accuse you of "always playing the victim" while simultaneously complaining of being "forced" to date you?

The man is on freakin' disability, has good healthy insurance, and vehemently refuses to use it, yet so many people would die (literally!) for that kind of access to care!

He did mention a few times that I complained too much! (when he's the one who complains all the time... .)

How come is on disability?

[nomoremommyfood]

If you let yourself be put in a box where you cannot or will not do anything but accept his verbal abuse, you lose.

He has proven multiple times, that this situation (him staying the night in your apartment) is not safe for you.

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly, but I don't think it's fair to count living in a "box" studio apartment toward my "lose." Rentals are costly and difficult to obtain in my city. It might be a box, but it's the best housing I could afford and, considering the amenities, something of a "rare gem." I also signed a lease prior to him unexpectedly being kicked out of his nearby apartment with 3-days notice.

I do agree that him staying here is not a good idea - particularly for multi-day periods. I've also realized that (and I know I'll get flack for this), time outs have never really worked for us, as he just stews in anger until we speak again. I've had more success with SET and turning on the calm voice as soon as possible. However, I think the real issue is his continuing to live with his parents and not look for an apartment. This was supposed to be temporary but I think he's getting comfortable with his enabling, gambling-addicted family.

How come is on disability?

He's actually on disability for BPD! I really think he's supposed to be in some sort of treatment, though.

[Grey Kitty]

By "box" I wasn't referring to your physical studio apartment, and did not intend to criticize your choice of living arrangements. Please accept my apology for not being clear.

What I meant by a "box" was that you were putting yourself in a box where your own choices left you vulnerable to his abuse.

You choose not to kick him out of your apartment at night. (And I get your explanation!)

You choose not to leave him in your apartment and go elsewhere for the night. (And I get your explanation here too!)

And more importantly, you choose to invite him to stay in your apartment overnight knowing that you had made those two choices.

Those are the walls to the "box" I'm talking about.

It isn't my place to tell you that one (or all!) of those choices are wrong, and I won't do that.

He's proven to you what will happen if you make that set of choices together. Maybe not every time. But way too often.

[ColdEthyl]

I'm sorry sorry you are going through this  I've had similar experiences before I got married to my dBPDh.

They say the most hurtful things they can come up with. If they know it's worked before, they will most certainly use it again when they are dysregulating. The gambling is a huge issue, and needs to be addressed.

How are you feeling about this relationship? Is this something you want to keep working on?

I'm sorry for bumping up this old topic. Actually, this is mostly a rant to work through the details of what just happened. I'm willing to try creative options and maybe give it one final shot, but I'm stuck between a.) how am I supposed to continue a relationship with someone who wreaks havoc every two weeks with no end in sight and b.) how am I supposed to leave an 8 year relationship (and because of living circumstances)?

A while ago, I told him I wanted to break up if things didn't improve; something I've never suggested. For about a month, it really seemed like he was trying to control his emotions (with all his relationships) and defuse blow-out fights. He stopped gambling on weekends when he sees me so he's less irritable. He started seeing another friend when he first arrives in the city so he has time to calm down after being with his parents before seeing me. He's been arranging two different "going home" dates, one if he's irritable and a later date if we're getting along. Before he arrived, for one of the first times ever, we went over "what do we do if a fight starts escalating?" He said "I won't let it happen" and I insisted we needed a plan, anyway.

All you can do is refuse to engage with him in it

Those were his exact words! He told me "you have to disengage," "you have to refuse to respond," "you have to ignore what I say." I told him the insults were really painful and that I thought it would be better if he both put on headphones and tuned out, but I'd do it and remind him of our agreement.

After four days of relative calm, I made an elaborate dinner for his last night. Apparently, he was worried about launching one of his band's videos

(he didn't tell me about the launch, but I still "should have figured it out" and ended up snapping at me over a cat's toy, snapping at him when I opened my computer instead of continuing the cat toy fight, and snapping at me for being "screen-obsessed," as demonstrated by "forcing him" into a conversation about soup an hour ago... .while we were eating soup. And who would want to date a woman who only talks about food?

The food thing is a dig - I've been counting calories and exercising heavily due to rapid, unexplained weight gain that doctors can't seem to diagnose. As usual, sensitive subjects are always the first target. Still, I disengaged! I told him the conversation was getting heated and I wouldn't participate as per our prior agreement. He hurled insults while I went on the fire escape, played with the cat, cleaned the kitchen, repeating "I told you, I'm not going to engage in this discussion. You and I both decided I wouldn't participate." He finally went into the bathroom for a while, then went to sleep. Success! I didn't engage and he eventually calmed down.

The next morning, I get up, ask if he wants coffee, and he won't speak. Apparently, I "don't want to hear what he things." I screamed at him to get out of my house and pushed him out. I have apologized for that and only that, because I don't think I should have to "take responsibility for my role" when he can't even tell what I did wrong. I haven't name-called, but have since been accused of "forcing" him to have sex, told "it'll be easy to find a drug-addicted schizophrenic to replace you," and, after eight years, I'm "expired milk."

I don't know where to go from here. I'm not only dealing with such a bad year, but having to hear the material played back in the cruelest way possible. Disengaging doesn't work - it becomes a fight topic on its own. Here's the worst part - I've been sitting this out while waiting on him to move out of his parent's house and return to the city and I don't think that's happening any time soon. He was supposed to be there a few months at most, then find a roommate and return. Now, he insists he needs to win something like $40,000 betting on horses to pay for an apartment. I didn't believe him until he actually won a sizable sum and it wasn't enough. I think he's just accumulating disability checks while alternately living off me and his parents. When fighting, I told him he might need to be able to come stay with me, anymore. He wasn't upset - his first response was to think of other people who might let him stay on their couch!

I'm sorry this is so long - I'm so heartbroken, I don't know what to do (or if we're even still together), and - if he's as easily over me as he says - what if he's just been using me?

[ugghh]

NoMore, I am sorry for the pain and confusion that you going through.  Might I suggest that you consider posting on the Undecided board instead of the Staying board?  If you don't want to that's fine, it is just that Undecided seems to more accurately fit your current state of mind and you may find more relevant help over there.    Me, I have left my pwBPD, but I skip around to all the boards trying to help where I can.

First and foremost, let me encourage you to hold the line on on refusing to engage.  As you may may know boundaries mean little to pwBPD and learning to set and hold your own is critical to maintaining your sanity.

When I first began to question my marriage of 25 years to a uBPDw, I would at times go to my therapist somewhat frustrated at my inability to take action despite the obviously harmful behavior of my uBPDw.  Like many of the people on this board, I was stuck.  He would very patiently assure me that my logic in assessing the craziness of the situation was usually correct, and he would also tell me that choosing not to make a life altering decision at that particular time was indeed a decision and it was okay to say I am not sure.

A fire breaks out in your home. You stand before the flames.

“Should I get the fire extinguisher and fight it? Or should I grab my photo album and run?”

You may want to visit the section on Choosing a Path / Decision Making guidelines https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111890.0

From the first line of that link

A fire breaks out in your home. You stand before the flames.

“Should I get the fire extinguisher and fight it? Or should I grab my photo album and run?”

In your situation you apartment, which you clearly treasure as a safe space has room for 1 person.  Pretend it is the middle of winter and you only have room for 1- who is leaving you or the BF?

[Indyan]

“Should I get the fire extinguisher and fight it? Or should I grab my photo album and run?”

I'm in a situation where I have to do both at the same time    :'(