Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2024, 04:02:12 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Depression = 72% of members
Take the test, read about the implications, and check out the remedies.
111
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Trying not to JADE, learning to validate, feeling like a trainwreck  (Read 368 times)
gomez_addams
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Almost divorced
Posts: 284


« on: September 22, 2014, 07:30:35 PM »

Quick recap: wife is undiagnosed, but has depression/anxiety/OCD/eating disorder.  Been married two years.  I'm 40, she's 34.

After marriage counseling on Saturday, it was a 15 minute ride home of criticism.  I just stayed quiet for the most part.  I never know what to say.  We got home and I pulled up to the door instead of our parking spot, and she slammed the door and walked off, and I headed out to cool off.  She was trying to get me to scream/curse at her (as I did a month or so ago after a ride home of criticism).

Before church on Sunday I sat down next to her and told her that I know we had a rough day Saturday, and that she's hurting (eye rolling and sarcasm), and that I care about her and love her (eye rolling).  I'm not sure if I should have even done that.

At church she was visibly shaking the entire time (or majority of the service).  People came up to me and asked about it.  We got home and she was in the bedroom crying, so I sat down to talk to her.

Every single thought I had was to JADE.  I wanted to defend myself.

- I don't know how to love her

- I'm not trying hard enough

- I'm not willing to do what it takes

- I don't understand her feelings

- I don't know her at all after two years of marriage

- She sees how I am with others, and knows I'm being phony

- She wishes instead of being calm, I'd show my true self and punch a wall or punch her

I tried not to interrupt, and I tried to validate the underlying feelings.  Validation is hard.  I'm trying to have thicker skin, maintain eye contact, stay calm, and acknowledge that she's angry.

She promised to get into a residential facility immediately after her folks visit (next month, 30 days, they leave right after Thanksgiving).

I got to a point where I feel overwhelmed and didn't know what to say, so I told her I was headed to the other room.

A few minutes later she came out and told me she considered taking a handful of pills (ativan, anti-anxiety).  I asked her if she wanted to hurt herself, or if she was considering it.  She got angry that I "didn't know her" and that (for spiritual reasons) she would never harm herself.  I probably should have called 911, or tried to take her to the emergency room.  Overall it was just so overwhelming and I felt completely lost.

Within 5 minutes (she did take her meds, just not an overdose) she was bragging that it works fast, and she's "no longer a sobbing, heaving mess."  Not sure if the stuff works that fast, or a switch was flipped.

She started watching a program that we're watching together (Lost -- I've never seen it).  She puts the next episode on.  If she was trying to get me to sit with her, it worked.  Towards the end of the episode she started discussing getting the foundation poured and septic tank installed on property she owns.  From "let's sign the divorce papers now" to "I can head back home a few months before you retire and get stuff prepped for our new house!" in under an hour.  Before that she was discussing long vacations/road trips together. 

So this was yesterday.  Today was more of the same.  She got upset because I tried to help with the dishes while she cooked herself breakfast, and I get hypersensitive.  So it became an issue of me being a "big baby" and getting my feelings hurt too easily.  Then some insults about how I spend my days off.  I told her I felt stressed out because she brought up suicide yesterday.  She denied bringing up suicide, and then a rant about if I really knew her, I'd know that she'd never hurt herself.  Went and took a shower, and then talked to her as she lied down in bed crying.

More criticism.  Same stuff as yesterday.  I felt much more calm.  I tried not to be so monotone (I don't know if I really am, but she mimics me, repeating my attempts at validation).  When she told me I was condescending, I broke down and cried a little bit.  I'm working really, really hard and it's frustrating to be ineffective, whether it's on me, her, or both of us.  I told her I didn't mean to come across condescending, and I was trying to be supportive because I love her.  She interrupted with "You don't love me... ." and more criticism. 

So I left.  I told her she was abusive and we were done talking.  Maybe I should have used the word disrespectful?  Maybe I should have said "I feel... ." instead? I know I don't always word things the best way, and that can ruin a ton of sincerity.

How do I terminate a conversation when I feel I'm at the breaking point?  I sometimes need to get out, but I want to do it in the most effective way (long term).  I'll be browsing the lessons, but any advice is appreciated.

How calm should I be?  I can be very animated, but it's hard for me during the disrespect to not lash out.  I'm working hard at being calm and even, but is her criticism legit?  I want to be as effective as possible (under the circumstances).

The criticism of not being able to handle criticism.  AAAAAAAAAGH.  If there's one area where I end up JADEing like an angry Viking, it's when she criticizes me for not being able to handle criticism, when I think I'm doing decent enough job of not screaming at the top of my lungs that she's a freaking psycho.

I'm going to continue to hit up the lessons (will probably park myself on #4: surviving disrespect for a while).  I've got some good friends that care.  I've also got a 12-step program (15 years) where I can continue to work on my character defects.

And her folks will be out here in roughly 4-5 weeks, staying a month (not with us, except the last 2-3 days before they fly back).  They're aware of her condition.  MIL wanted to stage an intervention (like on TV! We'll bring all our cousins in and surround her!) over the holidays when we visited.  I'm not sure if that would have been a good idea, but I was against it, and it never happened.

Thanks for any advice.

Logged
PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES
This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

Rapt Reader
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3626



WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2014, 09:12:30 PM »

You are certainly trying very hard to communicate better with your wife, gomez_addams, and I want you to know that it isn't terribly easy "get it" right away, and studying the Lessons here is the best thing to do  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  It's always touch and go, and quite confusing and tentative at first, but don't give up... .Have you read any books yet? We have many good ones to recommend at this link: Book Reviews, and I recommend each one of them. They are all incredibly good and helpful, and the wealth of knowledge to be gleaned is amazing. Please don't beat yourself up for not knowing already exactly what you need to do; you will get there because you want to, and you are trying... .

I do think it's great that your wife is thinking of admitting herself to a RTC; it's really a huge hurdle for her to have jumped--even only now and then--to be willing to admit that she has a problem and should get help for it. It's also good that her parents are aware of her problems and supportive of you. One thing that might help you is to know that, though she will talk about divorce and maybe even not loving you, one moment, her feelings are likely to turn on a dime and she will be over her dysregulation and back to being in love with you and wanting to work on the relationship and have a future with you, the next moment.

Just know that when she is dysregulated, it is the BPD talking; my hunch is that the "real her" is the one who loves you and wants to have a happy marriage. If you can learn how to detach from taking what she says when dysregulated personally, you will find the need to JADE fade away, and the ability to validate, use S.E.T. and the other communication techniques, will come easier. It's just much easier to be sympathetic and empathetic--and to react in that manner--if you can keep reminding yourself that it's really not all about you and your behaviors; it's about her and her feelings. And if you can keep remembering that, during a dysregulation, you can separate yourself from the hurtful things she says and listen to what she says. And figuring out what her feelings are behind her words can really help you with validation and empathy.

Besides the Lessons, this Workshop is also helpful: How do we become more empathetic to the pwBPD in our life? I know it really changed the way I understood my BPD loved ones, and made things easier for me... .

Logged

formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2014, 11:43:38 PM »

 

gomez_addams,

We can help you get this situation much... .much better.

You really are light years ahead of where many other people are at... .

Big concept:  Once an episode is over... .many pwBPD forget it and move on.

This is very hard for nons to do.  But it is critical to understand... .and practice.

Not saying never bring up the past... .but focus more on the right now... .the emotion of the moment.

I'll try to come back and write more... .
Logged

waverider
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married 8 yrs, together 16yrs
Posts: 7405


If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 06:49:22 AM »

When she is rambling, it is better often to just listen and not try to provide an answer or even validation all the time. As formflier says that they state something, then its over and they move on while you are left in their wake still trying to validate the state they were just in but they are now in a different mood. You being out sync, getting confused  and sounding patronizing and superficial.

Validate important issues and just treat the rest as passing traffic noise. It does take a while to spot the difference, just keep an ear open for reoccurring themes.

They dont always want to communicate, they just want to expunge what is on their mind. A response is not always required or wanted, you can end up stealing their "airtime".
Logged

  Reality is shared and open to debate, feelings are individual and real
takingandsending
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, 15 years; together 18 years
Posts: 1121



« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2014, 02:07:58 PM »

Hi gomez_addams.

I will echo what the others have posted, saying you are doing a really tremendous job of the S and E of SET, even when being attacked.

And I am going to reinforce waverider's comments. Some helpful person on the forum advised that validation and SET are of limited effectiveness during SO's dysregulation (think that was you, waverider). It won't hurt, but it doesn't reduce the conflict. So my thoughts for you are to check in with yourself during those moments you feel attacked.

I am finding it is far more important to stay with myself, parent myself, care for myself in these moments, so that when my wife comes back down, I can be there for her without  resentment. Believe me, I, too, often think "... .because you are crazy" after my every attempt at validation when she is lashing out. I don't like being that judgmental. So I am working on stronger boundaries around respectful communication. I can validate and let her vent when it's not too aggressive and I am in a strong enough place for it. Otherwise, I just let my wife know that I do want to discuss things with her when we are both more calm. Sometimes, I let her know that I am feeling anger and upset and am detaching so that I won't make things worse. Either way, your needs are important here, too. Unless you have superpowers, I imagine it might be upsetting when she mocks your attempts at being a decent human being.

And, like waverider says, you start to develop a filter of what are the basic issues of BPD and what may be something that you can actually work on together. I wish it were easier for you. Sounds like you handled it very well, for the most part. Hang in there.  
Logged

gomez_addams
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Almost divorced
Posts: 284


« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 03:33:03 PM »

Thanks, everyone.

It's really stressful, but I think I'm hanging in there.

I'm reading up on the emotional blackmail, too.

So much stuff to learn/practice... .One day at a time!
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 07:07:35 PM »

Thanks, everyone.

It's really stressful, but I think I'm hanging in there.

I'm reading up on the emotional blackmail, too.

So much stuff to learn/practice... .One day at a time!

Yes there is... .focus on one or two things and try to implement those... .for the rest... .keep reading and posting... sucking in knowledge.

You can do this!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
Logged

waverider
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married 8 yrs, together 16yrs
Posts: 7405


If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2014, 11:58:10 PM »

Having direction, even if you feel like you are not making much headway, is progress in itself. It is a start towards addressing the confusion.
Logged

  Reality is shared and open to debate, feelings are individual and real
gomez_addams
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Almost divorced
Posts: 284


« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2014, 12:57:22 AM »

I've also learned -- as with anything difficult in life -- bounce back from mistakes. She still gets me with random passive-aggressive zingers when I'm least expecting.

I just have to admit to myself that I don't always seem them coming, and it hurts.

But tomorrow is another day, and today (while horrible) was much, much better than the last three. 
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!