Geez, and it was going so well...

[Depression = 72% of members]

Interesting... .

My quick take is that you can both hold fast... .or both give up.

But I would not cave in without getting what you want.

I would also make sure if she caves in... .you come through with your part.

Hmmm... .will think more on this...

What do you mean by both holding fast or both giving up?

I don't want to cave, and of course my family thinks I shouldn't speak to her again until she gives it back as I have had to withdrawal for the semester from school since my classes are all online.  My wife is the one that wanted me to go back to school and get my degree and now she is sabotaging it.  I don't know what to do.  This is tough.

[MaroonLiquid]

Interesting... .

My quick take is that you can both hold fast... .or both give up.

But I would not cave in without getting what you want.

I would also make sure if she caves in... .you come through with your part.

Hmmm... .will think more on this...

What do you mean by both holding fast or both giving up?

I don't want to cave, and of course my family thinks I shouldn't speak to her again until she gives it back as I have had to withdrawal for the semester from school since my classes are all online.  My wife is the one that wanted me to go back to school and get my degree and now she is sabotaging it.  I don't know what to do.  This is tough.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

I mean if she sticks to her guns... .you stick to yours  (that is hold fast).

If you cave in... .she will think she has "won". 

It's a power play (most likely)... .you have engaged in the powerplay by locking things down... .so now you are committed.

Sort of like enforcing a boundary.  If you try to enforce one and back down... .it will be worse than never trying at all.

Thoughts?

[MaroonLiquid]

I mean if she sticks to her guns... .you stick to yours  (that is hold fast).

If you cave in... .she will think she has "won". 

It's a power play (most likely)... .you have engaged in the powerplay by locking things down... .so now you are committed.

Sort of like enforcing a boundary.  If you try to enforce one and back down... .it will be worse than never trying at all.

Thoughts?

I didn't lock things down to get my laptop back actually (it did open a door to have some leverage and create a boundary), I locked them down to keep her from changing more of my online account passwords.  I totally agree that whe will think she has won.  Even if I contact her first.  I realize that I am just going through the "hell" of silent treatment and it is causing me to question things and miss contact.  I am working through the anxiety and fear and recognizing it for what it is.  I am getting stronger.  And this comes in the middle of letting her know she will be responsible for her own car note going forward.  She has our daughter's "family birthday cruise" (I was cut out of) coming up 9 days after her car note is due.  It's all a mess at the moment, and know she is overwhelmed.  I want her to know that I'm different and will hold my boundaries.

[MaroonLiquid]

She called me asking for the code and "then" she would give me my laptop back tonight.  I stood my ground very calmly and she dysregulated, accused me of accessing all her accounts (which is what she did to me) and went off.  Told me I was a liar (responded that I'm sorry you feel that way) and that she was going to the police.  Told me she wanted me out of her life.  Said she would see me in jail and hung up. 

I sent her a text that said, "Wife, are you afraid that by giving me my laptop that there is no longer a tie to me and that I won't "be here" for you anymore?  I'm still here.  I'm not going to hurt you and we can resolve this together.  No response.

[formflier]

 

I think that was a decent response.

Might have been better to give a problem solving solution... .rather than suggesting what she may be thinking... .

Trouble with suggesting things... .is if you are wrong... it could be invalidating.

If she thinks that... .but thinks you don't understand it... .invalidating...

You get the picture.

Problem solving is lets meet to hand over the laptop and the code at same time.

Then suggest doing sometime "together" after that... .to show that you still want her... .

Or something like that...

Thoughts?

Oh yeah... .I'm generally anti-texting.  She could read today and be fine with it.  Her feelings change tomorrow... .she reads it and it invalidates... .

[MaroonLiquid]

I think that was a decent response.

Might have been better to give a problem solving solution... .rather than suggesting what she may be thinking... .

Trouble with suggesting things... .is if you are wrong... it could be invalidating.

If she thinks that... .but thinks you don't understand it... .invalidating...

You get the picture.

Problem solving is lets meet to hand over the laptop and the code at same time.

Then suggest doing sometime "together" after that... .to show that you still want her... .

Or something like that...

Thoughts?

Oh yeah... .I'm generally anti-texting.  She could read today and be fine with it.  Her feelings change tomorrow... .she reads it and it invalidates... .

I gave a problem solving solution (meet me after work with the laptop and I will give you the code and she wouldn't do it) on the phone.  She wanted it only her way (code now and laptop leter) and accusing me of possibly not giving her the right code (projection as she had no intention of giving me my laptop).  I called her bluff.  If she wanted to give me the laptop, she wouldn't have minded.  That's why I sent her the text I did.  it's the only thing that makes sense.  

Another thing, she not once accused me this time of having an affair, instead, it was a threat of violating her privacy and calling the police.  She is seeing what manipulation tactic works on me and none in three months have worked.  She sees that I have changed and she isn't handling it well.  All these things she's told her family that are lies are hitting home with her because she realizes she can't bait me or blackmail me anymore.  On the phone, she also tried to hit me with "the kids are horribly inconvenienced and can't get their work done".  I told her that they have school issued laptops and I had to withdrawal from school for the semester because she had mine for the last three weeks.  Her response was, "You could have gone to the school library and done your work on their computers."  I didn't respond to that garbage, but I thought, are you effing kidding me?  Did she even hear herself?       

[MaroonLiquid]

So yesterday evening, my wife texted and made a couple of comments about the kids not having the ability to print.  I responded by telling her a time I could meet that was right around the corner from her house to exchange the laptop for the code to unlock the family computer.  I asked her if a certain time worked for her.  She told me she needed the code first to have "30 minutes to change her passwords".  I told her that she wasn't getting it until I got my laptop.  She then got angry and threatened to go to the police again.  I simply ignored it and asked, "can you help me to understand why you are having such a hard time giving me the laptop back?  She asked me why I was having a hard time giving her the code.  I told her, again, that I have emails that are timestamped to prove my passwords were being changed from both the laptop and family computer between certain time when the kids were at school (she works out of the house).   She of course denied it and told me she was changing her passwords.  I realize now, she probably freaked when I locked my laptop up and that is when she went to the family computer and tried to change one of hers (which I have confirmation of also) to try and cover it up.  I just told her this, "I have been more than patient and cooperative with you.  You need to come to the realization yourself why you are refusing to give my laptop back.  All you are looking for is a fight, and I won't participate in that any longer"  She said, "we'll see" and that was that.  She is having a lot of trouble with me holding boundaries.  She is expecting me to bend... .It won't happen

[MaroonLiquid]

Quick questions:  My wife and I have had no communication since Thursday after reinforcing my boundary of not giving up the unlock code to the computer before giving my laptop back.  This is the second time I've held a boundary with her in the last month with the first time her giving in after roughly 24 hours.  This time, she hasn't given in and it's been almost a week and a half.  How long can the standstill go on before she realizes I'm not budging?  Also, I saw a post of hers on Facebook about how "good" things are (she always tries and "responds" to my posts with hers, for instance, I posted a throwback Thursday photo of our family because I love that photo and she posts a few hours later of just her kids) which I know is projection and not the truth, but it makes me feel hopeless.  Why?

[formflier]

 

It can go on for a long time... .hopefully you can find something else to focus on... .something that you control.

I would stay away from reading to much into who posts what on different sites.

The thing is... you will never know what she meant by the post.

Or... .how she took your post.

Hang in there. 

Can you update us on the individual work that you are doing?  What have you been doing lately to get yourself stronger... more healthy.

I think you had said a while back you had lost a bunch of weight?  How much? 

[MaroonLiquid]

I have lost 75 lbs over about 16 months. Went from 290 down to 215.  I think that became a trigger for her due to her not being able to lose (self-mytilation IMO).  Anyway, I read up on the stuff all the time, just having a real hard time as I said previously on validation.  Don't know when to do it and I don't know if it helps in the middle of her silent treatment or being angry at me from setting a boundary.  Don't want to be the first to break as I always was the one to apologize first.  Trying to get myself healthy and make better choices.

[formflier]

I have lost 75 lbs over about 16 months. Went from 290 down to 215.  I think that became a trigger for her due to her not being able to lose (self-mytilation IMO).  Anyway, I read up on the stuff all the time, just having a real hard time as I said previously on validation.  Don't know when to do it and I don't know if it helps in the middle of her silent treatment or being angry at me from setting a boundary.  Don't want to be the first to break as I always was the one to apologize first.  Trying to get myself healthy and make better choices.

Validate when you detect an emotion from her.  Doesn't apply to silence... .as you have no idea what the emotion really is.

Lesson #1 in validation is don't invalidate.  Listen first for that... then see if there is something you can validate.

Breaking silent treatment.  The key is to have communication be about something nonchalant... .don't bring up the NC.

She may or may not be angry about a boundary... .don't read into that.  Just do the boundary and move along.

You can validate the emotion she expresses... .but you may never know whey she is expressing it.  So... when validating... .don't validate being angry because of the boundary... .just validate anger.  Stay away from the why... .

Because that brings up that you may be the why... .  Better to just focus on the emotion...

[MaroonLiquid]

I have lost 75 lbs over about 16 months. Went from 290 down to 215.  I think that became a trigger for her due to her not being able to lose (self-mytilation IMO).  Anyway, I read up on the stuff all the time, just having a real hard time as I said previously on validation.  Don't know when to do it and I don't know if it helps in the middle of her silent treatment or being angry at me from setting a boundary.  Don't want to be the first to break as I always was the one to apologize first.  Trying to get myself healthy and make better choices.

Validate when you detect an emotion from her.  Doesn't apply to silence... .as you have no idea what the emotion really is.

Lesson #1 in validation is don't invalidate.  Listen first for that... then see if there is something you can validate.

Breaking silent treatment.  The key is to have communication be about something nonchalant... .don't bring up the NC.

She may or may not be angry about a boundary... .don't read into that.  Just do the boundary and move along.

You can validate the emotion she expresses... .but you may never know whey she is expressing it.  So... when validating... .don't validate being angry because of the boundary... .just validate anger.  Stay away from the why... .

Because that brings up that you may be the why... .  Better to just focus on the emotion...

Ok, the main thing I'm having a problem with is her wanting control in every situation it seems.  Like keeping my laptop, and wanting communication always being on her terms.  This time, I'm showing im different by not being the one to break first.  She thinks she can dish out whatever and I'll take it, but not anymore.  She expects me to break first.  She knows that withholding communication and affection from me was always my weak spot.  Again, not anymore.  I'm kind of at an impasse because I don't want to revert to old behavior

[formflier]

 Not really an impasse... .you are just doing your new thing.

Live your life and your values.  She will do... what she will do.

I'm assuming you are still not making the car payment... .?  Any other bill issues out there that you know about... ?

[MaroonLiquid]

Not really an impasse... .you are just doing your new thing.

Live your life and your values.  She will do... what she will do.

I'm assuming you are still not making the car payment... .?  Any other bill issues out there that you know about... ?

I'm not paying the car note and will let her know that on Friday afternoon in an email.  No other real bills after that except for my work insurance is up for re-enrollment next month for next year.  Not real sure what to do about that yet.  Praying and asking God for direction.  On that, I feel she wanted the separation, so she needs to get it through her work, and if/when we get back together, I can put them back on mine for the following year.  That will take a chunk out of her check, but not my problem.  What I've really noticed the last couple of days is that she is low on money.  She has the vacation coming up in less than three weeks and doesn't have any spending money (what I figure), and will only get worse since she will be responsible for her car note next week.  A part of me feels bad (FOG, I know), but know that she chose this route without thinking through things, getting counseling first and was completely emotional regarding every decision she's made since July 1st.  What I've learned is when you do that, you end up paying a far bigger price.  I believe God is trying to get her attention to turn her life around, but she is too scared and doesn't want to have to eat her words to all the people that she's lied on me to... .Much easier to continue painting me black.   

[formflier]

 

Not sure why you have picked a time to let her know.

Just don't pay it.  If she asks... .set up a time to meet to discuss finances... .if no meeting... .no discussion and no money...

Remember... .you are happy to meet and work on her concerns... .just not happy to do it via text, email or phone...

[MaroonLiquid]

Not sure why you have picked a time to let her know.

Just don't pay it.  If she asks... .set up a time to meet to discuss finances... .if no meeting... .no discussion and no money...

Remember... .you are happy to meet and work on her concerns... .just not happy to do it via text, email or phone...

Part of it, is I feel it is an integrity issue on my part and the right thing.  Right now, I don't trust with the state she's in that she isn't looking for any reason to call the cops on me as that has been threatened.  Also, she'll use it as another reason to continue painting me black... .Also, In another thread, you said to not set demands.  Wouldn't my issue with not giving the code to her in exchange for my laptop fall under the demand category and not a boundary?  I don't think so, just getting your take... .

[formflier]

 

Explain the integrity part... .

Trying to "outthink" a pwBPD so they don't call cops on you in not a good plan.  If they want to... .they will.

They don't do that because of a plan... .it's their emotions getting the best of them... .then they can't think straight.

You are not putting pressure on her... .you need to stop saving her from pressure she has put on herself... .

don't save her from her choices... .

[sweetheart]

Hello maroonliquid,

I have just read this thread through to formfliers last response. I am sorry that you are and have been having such a difficult time of late. It must be exhausting and upsetting to be in this situation with someone you clearly still love.

I have a couple of questions running around my head now I have finished reading which are,

- would you be stopping the car money in this way if the laptop situation hadn't occurred?

- is it possible to hold off on any decisions outside the laptop situation until some kind of resolution has been reached, maybe until after the vacation?

I don't know the answers to these questions but your situation has in my opinion moved beyond an enforcement of boundaries. I think you are right it does feel like this is a stand off which to someone with BPD is a situation which they will only react negatively to, in that it keeps triggering them.

I wonder with support from here could you explore alternative ways in which to resolve this situation without you feeling like you have had to 'give in' and that allows your wife a different way to respond that helps her feel validated?

Again I don't have the answer but I am aware that the situation is escalating negatively and it maybe that as the person without BPD we could explore different options.

[MaroonLiquid]

She just called and asked for a divorce.  Went through the "too much water under the bridge" (of course she caused all of it) BS and after a few minutes of telling her that this isn't right, and then her telling me that I impose my will over our family, she hung up, I called her back and said I disagree with your direction, that we can agree to disagree, but you have free will and if that is what you want, OK.  She said, "I'm glad you came around to this and in a few days, you will see that this is right.  Have a nice life husband" and hung up on me.  I refuse to fight any longer.  I think she tried to use this to put me on the defensive again after holding a boundary and put me in a no win situation.

[MaroonLiquid]

She texted and said, "Thank you for listening and not getting mad this morning.  I truly want this to go as smoothly as possible for us. 

Don't know how to respond!

[formflier]

Do not agree to a divorce.  If she wants one... .she can get it.  You can't stop it.  If you want to stay... .then make her own this issue.

If she says she wants a divorce... just say... .sorry you feel that way.

Move along to other subjects.

She knows where you are.  If she files... .she files.

If you give her words that make it seem like you want it... .or agree... .it will make it easier for her.

Communicate about this... .don't fight... .tell her your desire is to heal... .not divorce... .but you validate her emotions... and her opinion.  You just have a different one.

[MaroonLiquid]

I told her I didn't agree with it and made it extremely clear, but knew she has choice, and told her I couldn't stop her and that I would continue to stand for the marriage.  Here is my response that I may send... .

I understand you are where you are at this moment and you feel "too much has happened".  That's normal to feel that way in a marriage at times.  Things between us are tough, but I know nothing is too big for God and He always makes a way of escape if we allow it.  

[MaroonLiquid]

She responded a couple of more times about her going on her own insurance and meeting with the laptop and pin code.  I told her we can meet tonight at 7:30PM to exchange.  No response yet.  I'm not touching on the other subjects as I don't feel led to over text.

[MaroonLiquid]

Do not agree to a divorce.  If she wants one... .she can get it.  You can't stop it.  If you want to stay... .then make her own this issue.

If she says she wants a divorce... just say... .sorry you feel that way.

Move along to other subjects.

She knows where you are.  If she files... .she files.

If you give her words that make it seem like you want it... .or agree... .it will make it easier for her.

Communicate about this... .don't fight... .tell her your desire is to heal... .not divorce... .but you validate her emotions... and her opinion.  You just have a different one.

What do you mean "make her own this issue"?  I thought I did that by telling her I don't want this.

[formflier]

 

Sort of... .but that is a bit close to a "yes and no" argument.

Also... .don't draw a line in the sand and say "if you want it... .you must file"... .she knows this... .don't "challenge" her.

Did you "validate" lot of water under the bridge...

[MaroonLiquid]

No,  didn't and feel bad for that.  She didn't respond to my meeting tonight for laptop/pin code and instead changed the subject to bills... .I think she is messing with me

[formflier]

No,  didn't and feel bad for that.  She didn't respond to my meeting tonight for laptop/pin code and instead changed the subject to bills... .I think she is messing with me

don't feel bad for it... .just decide to try and do better next time.

All you can do is the best you can... .we hope on this site to get you stronger and able to have your best be a bit better.

Also... I would get away from deciding if she is serious or messing with you... .you need to detach a little more... .evaluate the action/communication that she takes... .and figure out a best response from the lessons.

Hang in there... .divorce threats stink... .I lost count over the years of how many I've gotten.  I've even answered the phone at my house when a lawyer was calling her back.  She could have been "messing with me"... .or I just chanced into it.

Either way... .if she wants a divorce... she knows where to find me and serve me.  Most pwBPD don't like to take responsibility for their actions and their life... .them filing for divorce would mean they are being responsible... .

So... .not saying to "not worry"... .but trying to put it in perspective for you.

Hang tough... .

[formflier]

No,  didn't and feel bad for that.  She didn't respond to my meeting tonight for laptop/pin code and instead changed the subject to bills... .I think she is messing with me

A meeting about bills is just as good... .as a meeting for another reason.  The point is to establish some personal contact where you can validate... .use tools and lessons.

[MaroonLiquid]

No,  didn't and feel bad for that.  She didn't respond to my meeting tonight for laptop/pin code and instead changed the subject to bills... .I think she is messing with me

A meeting about bills is just as good... .as a meeting for another reason.  The point is to establish some personal contact where you can validate... .use tools and lessons.

I sent her this... .Earlier you said that too much has happened between us.  It is normal to feel that way in any marriage, especially with all we've been through and have had to deal with.  Things between us are tough in this moment, but I know nothing is too big for God and He always makes a way of escape if we allow it.  I desire God's best with healing and restoration, not divorce.  We can get through this.

I then sent her a text telling her we can discuss bills when we meet.  She responded with, "I have decided to keep the property where it is until the divorce is final."  I responded with, "ok".  I won't let her bother me.  She is trying to mess with me.

[Rapt Reader]

This thread has been locked due to reaching its post limit... .It is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the discussion. Thanks for your understanding.