Feeling like I'm raising two children and other observations

[Tired_Dad]

Just a few observations I've had and looking to see if they are shared.

1. Absolutely no sense of direction. Gets lost easily.

2. Horrible with money.

3. Doesn't understand that we don't always get what we're "entitled" to.

4. Must argue with children.

5. Gets angry that children disrespect them after being provoked by them.

6. Complains that their child "Loves you more" yet rejects their affection over the smallest percieved slight.

7. Feels the need to defend "broken" people and criticize the people trying to provide assistance.

8. Never happy with anyone in any authority position over them.

and others... .please share and comment.

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[vortex of confusion]

I have four kids and my spouse so it feels like I am raising 5 kids. 

1. Gets easily jealous of the kids so that it feels like sibling rivalry rather than a true parent/child relationship.

2. Nags as bad as or worse than the kids.

3. Picky eater.

4. Unwilling to try new things.

5. Lacks decision making abilities.

6. Seeks constant reassurance.

7. Unable to take initiative (has to be given a list of chores).

8. Needs tucked in bed (not so much any more but there was a time when I had to tuck him in bed and kiss him good night and rub his back in order for him to go to sleep).

[waverider]

We can all run off a list of "faults".

The important thing is  can you identify which of these are attributable to the same common core parts of the disorder?

Most if these are symptoms, in order to understand them and cope with them, what are the driving causes?

eg. Difficulty in prioritizing? Spatial awareness? Difficulties with handling alternatives? black and white thinking?

It would be more constructive if you could have a stab at underlying common reasons, rather than just allowing it to turn into a negative vent fest.

It would be interesting to compare how we nons perceive these observations.

[vortex of confusion]

We can all run off a list of "faults".

The important thing is  can you identify which of these are attributable to the same common core parts of the disorder?

Most if these are symptoms, in order to understand them and cope with them, what are the driving causes?

eg. Difficulty in prioritizing? Spatial awareness? Difficulties with handling alternatives? black and white thinking?

It would be more constructive if you could have a stab at underlying common reasons, rather than just allowing it to turn into a negative vent fest.

It would be interesting to compare how we nons perceive these observations.

I was having a particularly rough evening when I found this post. I had been at work all evening and had to stop at the grocery store on my way home. I got home to upset kids that still were not in bed even though one of the things that I have asked is for him to at least have the kids in bed when I get home. I was very, very frustrated, especially after getting the usual report from the kids that dad was here physically but not mentally.

I till take a stab at adding reasons to my list:


1. Gets easily jealous of the kids so that it feels like sibling rivalry rather than a true parent/child relationship. --I think this stems from a fear of abandonment. My attention to the kids makes him insecure about my love for him.

2. Nags as bad as or worse than the kids. --I think this comes from the impulsiveness. He can't wait for anything and wants things now.

3. Picky eater. --I am not sure how this relates to BPD. I think it is due to sensitivities acquired as a child. As a kid, his mother made him eat things that he didn't like and she was a terrible cook. Now, I think his pickiness is twofold. One is about control and the other is about avoiding anything and everything that might even remotely remind him of eating when he was a kid.

4. Unwilling to try new things. --I think this may be due to fear. Afraid of failure. I think it comes down to the fact that new things cause him a lot of anxiety.

5. Lacks decision making abilities. --Lacks a sense of self so is very unsure of himself. It is much easier to make decisions when coming from a place of stability. If somebody is feeling unstable in himself, then it becomes difficult to make decisions. Afraid of making the wrong decision.

6. Seeks constant reassurance. --Unstable sense of self. Fear of abandonment.

7. Unable to take initiative (has to be given a list of chores). --I think this might have to do with a bit of depression. Lack of sense of self. Unable to figure out what to do without having somebody to mirror or tell him what to do.

8. Needs tucked in bed (not so much any more but there was a time when I had to tuck him in bed and kiss him good night and rub his back in order for him to go to sleep).  --Fear of abandonment and unstable sense of self.

I am not sure if I got everything but these are the reasons that I think he does some of these things.

[maxsterling]

@tired dad - We don't have kids - but through her interaction with students and friends' kids, and our pets, I very easily can come up with examples of everything on your list except #7.  That maybe because she tends to criticize everyone eventually.  I can probably come up with two examples of each item from the past week alone.  It's just the way it is, and just illustrates the issues we must deal with as loved ones of pwBPD.

The arguing with children  - I don't understand this.  She's a 3rd grade teacher, and it's quite shocking to hear her get so worked up over what a student did during the day and have her come home and refer to one of her students as an "ass hole".   And talking of getting married - she said she wants to invite her friend but not her friend's 4 year old daughter.  Taking this attitude toward other adults I can relate to (not nearly to this extreme), but with children?  If I am involved with a child who has behavioral issues, I never ever go to the place of labeling the child as a "jerk" or worse - instead I think of the child as wild, hyper, or think about the child's upbringing and parents.  But she genuinely will get mad at the child and paint the child black, as if an 8 year old is deliberately and maliciously out to ruin her life.   I'm not sure what this has to do with the disorder, but I suspect that it has to do with their own childhood issues and early coping mechanisms that are still in place.   

[vortex of confusion]

The arguing with children  - I don't understand this.  She's a 3rd grade teacher, and it's quite shocking to hear her get so worked up over what a student did during the day and have her come home and refer to one of her students as an "ass hole".   And talking of getting married - she said she wants to invite her friend but not her friend's 4 year old daughter.  Taking this attitude toward other adults I can relate to (not nearly to this extreme), but with children?  If I am involved with a child who has behavioral issues, I never ever go to the place of labeling the child as a "jerk" or worse - instead I think of the child as wild, hyper, or think about the child's upbringing and parents.  But she genuinely will get mad at the child and paint the child black, as if an 8 year old is deliberately and maliciously out to ruin her life.   I'm not sure what this has to do with the disorder, but I suspect that it has to do with their own childhood issues and early coping mechanisms that are still in place.   

Mine argues with the kids too. I think part of the reason is that it is about control. While poking around, I found an article that has a section about BPD as a parent. The article is "Why We Struggle In Our Relationships". https://bpdfamily.com/content/why-we-struggle-in-relationships

This passage from the article says a lot:

It is interesting to note what is most likely to occur when the borderline becomes a parent. Typically, a borderline adult gets exactly what they feel they have always needed when they have a baby. That is, while it has proven almost impossible to merge with another adult, while simultaneously maintaining control over the relationship, with a baby that is exactly what the borderline achieves. The situation is, at first, tantalizingly perfect. The borderline wants perfect recognition of their own independence and that is what they perceive within their merger with the infant. As long as they respond to the child's biological needs in the first few months, the child is very likely to seem to be giving perfect recognition of the borderline's independence. To the borderline, the fact that they are now a parent, seems like individuation. To the baby, the soothing the borderline can accomplish makes them gaze contentedly into the glow of the borderline's eyes, thus giving recognition of the borderline's independence.

Predictably, however, as soon as the baby has independent striving, the borderline parent experiences abandonment at the hands of their very own child. Such abandonment or individuation is impossible for the borderline to tolerate and thus they react to their own child with distaste, anger, ignoring behavior, and they use any other means necessary to thwart their child's independence. The child learns that independence and individuation is horrifying to the parent, on whom the child absolutely depends for everything. The child then adapts to the parent's needs by maintaining some level of merger with the parent, and denying their own need for recognition of their true nature and/or independence. The behavior developed by the child is only the behavior that is pleasing to the parent, and thus does not reflect what is specifically special in the child.

I think some of these same concepts could be applied to the student/teacher relationship. A student that is asserting his/her independence is seen as a threat. Students are pretty reliant on teachers when at school and often times (depending on the grade level) teachers do serve as a sort of surrogate parent.

And too, this passage highlights why my husband was so great when the kids were really little. The older they get, the more they separate from us, which kicks in those fears of abandonment.

[Tired_Dad]

Thank you for your responses.

I've been trying to parse out from my wife's behaviors what is a result of her having BPD and what is the result of her suffering from a TBI and the possibility of overlaping symptoms.

Spatial awareness is a key one that I am attempting to find out if there is commonality.

I often wonder if it has to do with the inability to commit or make a decision and to a lack of impulse control.

To illustrate, Before I was deployed and before I knew what BPD even was I was working in out of state for the Army. My spouse was driving up to see me and was on the correct north/south state route heading towards me. She then calls me telling me that she is unsure of where she is and then after listing off some landmarks I reassure her that she is on the correct road. After which she tells me that it doesn't feel right and while on the phone with me turns off the road onto a road I didn't know and then asks me what to do now. I then had to tell her that I don't know where she is anymore and to turn around and get back on the road she was on to which she replies the she didn't know how to... .at that point she lost signal/phone died/rage threw it I never did find out but the call ended and I didn't make an attempt to call her because she was an adult and she was within 3miles of me in a populated area with a low crime rate.

She did end up finding me, but that event has always stood out in my mind as a window into her psyche.

[waverider]

Thank you for your responses.

I've been trying to parse out from my wife's behaviors what is a result of her having BPD and what is the result of her suffering from a TBI and the possibility of overlaping symptoms.

Spatial awareness is a key one that I am attempting to find out if there is commonality.

I often wonder if it has to do with the inability to commit or make a decision and to a lack of impulse control.

To illustrate, Before I was deployed and before I knew what BPD even was I was working in out of state for the Army. My spouse was driving up to see me and was on the correct north/south state route heading towards me. She then calls me telling me that she is unsure of where she is and then after listing off some landmarks I reassure her that she is on the correct road. After which she tells me that it doesn't feel right and while on the phone with me turns off the road onto a road I didn't know and then asks me what to do now. I then had to tell her that I don't know where she is anymore and to turn around and get back on the road she was on to which she replies the she didn't know how to... .at that point she lost signal/phone died/rage threw it I never did find out but the call ended and I didn't make an attempt to call her because she was an adult and she was within 3miles of me in a populated area with a low crime rate.

She did end up finding me, but that event has always stood out in my mind as a window into her psyche.

I have heard it said that common difference between the sexes is that male mind converts journeys into map form, whereas the female mind stays on a the linear road view of turning left /right etc at recognizable points. Dont know how general this rule is, but I have noticed how some can do this and others cant. If you convert to map form then it is easier to correct, or find alternative routes as you have a better geographical sense.

My partner can be can be half a mile from home on a road we have been on hundreds of times. She recognises the road but has no idea if its north/west/south or east of home. She doesn't drive so she doesn't care enough

Sometimes a pwBPD is so wrapped up in what they are thinking they are not curious enough about where they are, or how to get to places, that is somebody else's job to do for them. ie off loading curiosity along with responsibility. ie no need to know=no interest in knowing> leads to not learning and unworldliness. Black and white thinking.

This principle can lead to other huge gaps in lack of knowledge about things that leave you thinking "how could you not be aware of that?"

[Tired_Dad]

This principle can lead to other huge gaps in lack of knowledge about things that leave you thinking "how could you not be aware of that?"

This quote hits home so hard for me. My dBPDw has her Masters in Art Therapy (and would be a LICSW if she wasn't so afraid of taking the test) and works primarily with children and by all accounts she is excellent at her job... .then she get's home and the simplest developmental challenges and empathy towards our son or to me seem to be lost... .I often find myself shouting in my head (sometimes out loud) "You have a DEGREE in this... .How can you not be aware of what your child is doing and why?" She will then reply that she's not going to be like me and analyze everyone and everything (I do this. Not in the paranoid way, but in the I've been in the Army way to long kind of way and have to always have a plan for every situation way.) that she just wants to "be"... .sigh

She is not only suffering from BPD but is actually actively supressing skills that could help her and our family get through this.

[MissyM]

I don't think spacial awareness is a symptom of BPD, if it were many of us would be considered BPD!  I have been told that my lack of a compass is a form of directional dyslexia.  It is the oddest thing, I can get out of the same elevator I have been in 100s of times and have no idea which way to go.  Of my 3 children, 2 are this way.  One (that is female) has a built in compass and knows N, S, E & W, wherever she is. 

Now, my dBPDh is a highly educated man but he cannot manage simple things.  I have always attributed this to being an intellect and kind of an absent minded professor person.  Is this common with BPDs?

[waverider]

Now, my dBPDh is a highly educated man but he cannot manage simple things.  I have always attributed this to being an intellect and kind of an absent minded professor person.  Is this common with BPDs?

Some of this is lack of mindfulness and not being fully aware of ones surroundings, stuck in a kind of goal orientated tunnel vision if you like. Which is common with pwBPD. pwBPD are not stupid it is just the structure, direction and priorities are often out of wack. It is the application of the intellect that causes most of their problems.