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Author Topic: I have a problem. She wants to be adored.  (Read 1115 times)
Moselle
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« on: September 24, 2014, 03:42:26 PM »

That's what she says. She needs to be adored, and from what I hear that's pretty common around these parts.

I don't adore her

For 75% of the time, she's problematic, disagreeable, moody, hateful, abusive.

For 15% she is tolerable and

For 10% she actually an amazing person.

I don't adore her, she's hard work.

What to do with her expectation of adoration?
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LilHurt420
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2014, 03:53:02 PM »

My uBPDh says the same.  He has said that he wants to be "the poster on my wall" and feels I should adore him, kiss his a$$ and kiss the ground he walks on.

Yet the break down you gave is extremely accurate for him as well.  And after 10 years of putting up with the on and off abuse and problems he's caused it's very hard to adore someone!

I struggle with the expectations also.  On one hand we're still in these relationships, so in the past (and sometimes still) I will try to give him what he needs hoping to get something in return.  Only the more and more I make myself feel stupid for adoring someone who clearly shouldn't be adored, the more and more resentment I hold and I know it shows.  This sets off a whole new set of problems (because then he doesn't feel like I adore him enough and goes into a dysregulation since he thinks he hasn't done anything wrong within a span of time for me to not be adoring him).  It's like a catch 22.  I tried explaining it to him.  I don't think they get it though.  In his mind he feels that if he's not doing anything to me in that very moment, then I have no reason not to adore him.  In my mind... .I've made myself look stupid in the past and given in to show him all the love he wants, yet it either wasn't good enough or he did something to ruin it himself by raging over something he perceived that wasn't real.

I'm exhausted of figuring all this out now a days... .good luck to you!
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meerkat1
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2014, 03:54:36 PM »

I am the exact opposite. I try very hard to adore my wife. She simply won't let me.

I try to touch, try to hug, make a fuss over her. Compliment her. Buy flowers. etc. etc.

Most of the time I am met with a swift kick to the head (figuratively of course).

You may want to find out what 'adoration' even means to her. Maybe it is something you can do, just not what you think it is.

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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2014, 04:01:02 PM »

You may want to find out what 'adoration' even means to her. Maybe it is something you can do, just not what you think it is.

This is an excellent point! Find out what her love language is. Even if a person is trying to adore the spouse, if he/she is doing it in ways that are not in line with who the person is, then it can be fruitless. For example, my husband bought me a pair of ear rings. I was mad about it but not because I didn't like the ear rings. I thought they were beautiful. However, I don't care for jewelry so him buying me jewelry felt like a bit of a kick in the teeth because it meant that he hadn't really paid attention to who I am or what I like.
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MissyM
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2014, 05:05:31 PM »

My dBPDh used to tell me I wasn't grateful enough for him.  Thankfully, that bull has stopped in recovery.  It is wanting me to fill up that big empty hole inside of him and that just isn't possible, I will always fail at that and then he gets angry.  I am loving and affectionate, but I am not his Mommy and he isn't going to get that kind of unconditional love that he didn't get as a child.  It is the sad truth.  Thankfully, since he has stopped behaving in a way that demands I love him it has opened up more room to be loving towards him.  Before it was like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum and expecting love.
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Moselle
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2014, 02:49:17 AM »

This is an excellent point! Find out what her love language is. Even if a person is trying to adore the spouse, if he/she is doing it in ways that are not in line with who the person is, then it can be fruitless.

I know her love languages. Is that what she means by "adore her". Her first is acts of service, to do things for her,  and her second is gifts. She likes to receive things.

I know what to do. I just think the conflict dynamic has robbed me of the energy or the will to actually love her the way I should.  The resentment builds up and ironically the one thing that could bring the walls down, love is furthest from my mind.

I am thinking these days that the best gift I can give her is to love and adore myself. I'm not thinking in a Narcissistic way, but in a caretaking way. I saw in a different post that you have set goals for yourself, separate to him or the family, for your own sense of achievement. I think that's an excellent way to care for yourself. The principle being the same as the oxygen mask in an airplane. They say, "Put your oxygen mask on first before helping others". Then I may be in a position to love her in her language. Agree? Disagree?

I'm in the early stages of learning/knowing how to love myself. I'm going to throw this on it's head a little bit. Knowing that her love languages are service and gifts, is it appropriate to be asking what she is doing to love  herself in those languages.

Is it also approppriate to ask what she finds adorable about herself that I should be adoring?

It strikes me that we are perhaps in a trading game. I'll love you in your language  if you love me in my language. And love does't work that way does it?
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2014, 08:17:56 AM »

I think I can do loving things for my husband without actually feeling the love. No matter how I feel about him, I still try to do nice things for him and I still try to be nice to a certain degree. It is nowhere near adoration but it is still trying to keep in mind that he is a human being.

Self love is very important but it doesn't have to be the only thing that you focus on in the course of a day. Last night, my husband and I had a conversation about our relationship.   It was frustrating because he said that he was ready to work on it. I asked him what that would entail. He said something along the lines of "I am going to try to be nicer." And I was, "Is that it? Is there anything else that you can think of to work on our relationship?" And he said, "No, I just need to be nicer to you and give you the respect that you deserve."

It kind of blew me away and pi**ed me off because I was thinking, "Why the heck did he need to be in a better place to do those things.?" Why the heck couldn't he have decided to be nicer a long time ago? Heck, I asked him if it was really that easy and he said that he thought it was that easy. Okay. Whatever.

Working on oneself and focusing on oneself shouldn't preclude doing things for your partner, especially if they are small and speak her love language.

If you see it as a trading game, then it becomes tit for tat and might build up resentments. I have been in the trading game mindset for a long time and I am trying to work my way out of it. I get so mad that I know what my spouse likes and do things for him but he can't/won't reciprocate. If I am doing anything with the hope that he will at some point love me/give to me, then I am setting myself up for failure and disappointment. I am trying to approach this stuff with the mindset that he will never change. I am not doing this stuff for some kind of reward or recognition for him.

What would get out of asking her what she adores about herself? Is that a question that is safe to ask? Would that be playing therapist a bit? Why does it matter what she adores about herself?
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Moselle
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2014, 09:12:03 AM »

What would get out of asking her what she adores about herself? Is that a question that is safe to ask? Would that be playing therapist a bit? Why does it matter what she adores about herself?

First. Awareness. I want her to become aware of how her traits affect us (me and the kids) what it does to someone when you rage. How difficult it is to adore someone who behaves that way. To empathise, stand outside her self and put herself in someone's shoes who is her SO

Second, to help her to understand this concept of self love. That it happens first, not last. She does lots of adoring now, just not to me. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  She is a regular Joan of Arc sometimes doing things for her clients (professsional photographer), friends or acquaintances, which go far beyond normal or reasonable. She has been honest with me before that she does these things to feel loved. In the hope that if she keeps up this impossible standard of perfection, that she is in some way acceptable. That they will love her back

You are right, both reasons are my wishful thinking that she might become empathetic, and love herself. I'm not her T, and that's not really my business is it?

I didn't ask her that Q BTW, but I did ask her what she meant by 'adore'. She said to be constantly around her doing things for he and showing her love... .YIKES! I didn't say that though. I asked her to please be specific and put in an email what her expectations are.
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lemon flower
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2014, 10:11:41 AM »

maybe she wants to be adored because that's a specific behaviour she is familiar with... .

remember there used to be a time when she actually adored YOU, maybe she remembers that and wants to be equally important to you as you are/used to be for her... .

since relativating and nuancing are too subtle for pwBPD they search for extreme expressions of how they feel and they expect the same of their beloved ones, and unfortunately same goes for the negative feelings as well... .
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Moselle
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2014, 10:33:48 AM »

maybe she wants to be adored because that's a specific behaviour she is familiar with... .

remember there used to be a time when she actually adored YOU, maybe she remembers that and wants to be equally important to you as you are/used to be for her... .

since relativating and nuancing are too subtle for pwBPD they search for extreme expressions of how they feel and they expect the same of their beloved ones, and unfortunately same goes for the negative feelings as well... .

Yes, this makes so much sense, she used to split me white, and she wants that reciprocated

Idealization and adoration are the same thing! The honeymoon phase. She wants that back. Fascinating.

And if I go back, get recycled,  the phases will start again. Honeymoon, posessiveness, then hatred.

Unless... .?
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2014, 11:13:19 AM »

Reminds me of this quote... .

“I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.”

― Marilyn Monroe
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Moselle
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2014, 11:37:02 AM »

Reminds me of this quote... .

“I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.”

― Marilyn Monroe

Brilliant. When you marry Marilyn Monroe, you certainly know what you're getting.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2014, 11:57:02 AM »

I didn't ask her that Q BTW, but I did ask her what she meant by 'adore'. She said to be constantly around her doing things for he and showing her love... .YIKES! I didn't say that though. I asked her to please be specific and put in an email what her expectations are.

Yikes is right!

I was thinking about this while driving around today. I remember that there was a time when my husband and I were having a similar discussion. He said something about not feeling special. This was a conversation about 6 or 8 months ago. I asked him what more I could do for him. I tried to enumerate all of the stuff that I do. I asked him if I wasn't nice enough or something along those lines. His response was, "But you are nice to everyone." So all of my efforts were pretty much brushed off as I am nice to everyone. I honestly had no idea what more I could do for him because at one point several years ago, I was making notes of all of the good things that he did. If he cooked me dinner, I would post about it on social media. I would publicly gush over him yet he dismissed that as "I do that for everyone." What the heck? Seriously?

Be careful about asking her what you can do, she may come back with a list of stuff that is more than you can handle. I guess that is why I have tried to stop gushing over him. The more I did, it seemed like the more he wanted. Now, I still try to do nice things for him and surprise him but I try to check with myself and make sure that I am not going to feel resentful and I try to make sure that I am doing it without any kind of expectation at all. It can be tough because it sometimes feels like it is never enough.

My husband still splits me white. He cannot or will not find anything wrong with me. He cannot or will not tell me what I can do to help him. He has said, "You have always been a saint." Okay, whatever, I cannot return that or else I would be lying. Everyone has both good and bad.
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MissyM
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2014, 12:27:17 PM »

Excerpt
Brilliant. When you marry Marilyn Monroe, you certainly know what you're getting.

LOL!  She certainly seemed to meet the BPD criteria.  Sad that they do really want to be their worst with us to make us prove we love them, since they feel unlovable.
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2014, 12:58:30 PM »

Well, what she really means is she wants to "feel" that you adore her.  That's subjective and may or may not be actually based upon anything you can do.  She is controlling the rules here, and that means a moving target and moving goal posts.  If she "feels" adored, you are okay.  If she doesn't feel "adored", you are on the trash heap.  But... .you can't do anything about her feelings, because those feelings are unlikely to be based on anything concrete or in the present.

My advice?  Treat her with respect as to how you would want to be treated, and whether she considers that being "adored" is up to her.  I agree with others you can ask her to clarify specific things she wants you to do, but usually when I try to ask about those things I don't get a clear answer.  So she may complain that I don't care about her.  I then may say I don't understand, I do this and that and the other thing that I feel shows tremendous care, and ask what more she wants me to do.  She almost never has an answer.  And if she does something that I can easily do, I may do it, and she is still miserable.  Lesson learned - don't live my life trying to satisfy her concerns.
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Moselle
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« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2014, 01:46:33 PM »

Sad that they do really want to be their worst with us to make us prove we love them, since they feel unlovable.

Yes it is sad. I realise that's what her mother says about her father. So the apple doesn't fall far from the tree!

How miserable. "I'm going to really screw this person over as hard as I can. If he stays, he loves me. If he leaves, he's the abuser, and abandoner"

Wacky thing - BPD

Well, what she really means is she wants to "feel" that you adore her.  

My advice?  Treat her with respect as to how you would want to be treated, and whether she considers that being "adored" is up to her. 

Lesson learned - don't live my life trying to satisfy her concerns.

How can this person ever feel adored, if they don't feel adorable in the first place?

Thanks I'll do that  - treat her with respect

Agreed! Throwing emotion down a black hole. Been there, got that T shirt

His response was, "But you are nice to everyone." So all of my efforts were pretty much brushed off as I am nice to everyone. I honestly had no idea what more I could do for him.

Be careful about asking her what you can do, she may come back with a list of stuff that is more than you can handle.

My husband still splits me white. He cannot or will not find anything wrong with me. He cannot or will not tell me what I can do to help him. He has said, "You have always been a saint." Okay, whatever, I cannot return that or else I would be lying. Everyone has both good and bad.

It's clear we will never ever satisfy them. I like Maxsterling's advice. Respect them, be happy with our offering, and get busy with our lives.

Splitting white is just as wrong as splitting black, perhaps even more insidious, because it builds the expectation that we are perfect.

Thanks for comments all. I'm learning fast from all of you!
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« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2014, 01:48:25 PM »

Splitting white is just as wrong as splitting black, perhaps even more insidious, because it builds the expectation that we are perfect.

Very insightful.  I've never thought about it that way, but I think you are right.
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2014, 01:12:58 PM »

Unless, no until you break the cycle. 

It took lots of time and effort for my BPDh and I to come to where right now... .but I'd say, we began to avoid these cyclic behaviours about the time he started T and I stopped caring about what he wanted or needed, and let him know. 

It was hard work, because I had to constantly remind him that I cared about him but that what he wanted or needed was no longer my concern.  I'd tell him he was a big boy and could figure things out for himself.  I'd tell him that if I had to go without what I needed, than he had no right to demand that I fullfill his needs or wants. 

I would, well, reward good behaviours with a sprinkle of adoration - something specific, like a comment on his great physique or strong hands, but would become stone cold when he would demand or request, or even hint for it.  It sounds awful to say, but honestly, eventually it began to work!

He knows I will never leave him, which took many years for him to believe, yet that I think helped a lot thru this phase, but yea, stop feeding the cycle - do things different.

Everyone is different, but thought I might share our situation.

And it looked like everyone else ran from your question!   Smiling (click to insert in post)

 

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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2014, 01:18:50 PM »

oops didn't read page two 

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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2014, 08:39:12 PM »

That's what she says. She needs to be adored, and from what I hear that's pretty common around these parts.

I don't adore her

For 75% of the time, she's problematic, disagreeable, moody, hateful, abusive.

For 15% she is tolerable and

For 10% she actually an amazing person.

I don't adore her, she's hard work.

What to do with her expectation of adoration?

I learned something interesting in a marriage class.  The success of the marriage depends on whether the wife feels cherished by her husband.  That may sound like the whole burden is on the husband, but a husband isn't going to cherish a wife who doesn't make her self "cherishable".   So the wife needs to make herself cherishable and the husband needs to make her feel cherished.  He's not going to do that if she doesn't make herself cherishable.   A BPDw is very hard to cherish.
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Moselle
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« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2014, 06:51:26 AM »

A BPDw is very hard to cherish.

Perhaps you're right  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I think our job is to cherish her reasonably well, and HELP HER FEEL emotionally safe by listening to and validating her opinions. When we have done this, we should be proud of our offering. It will probably not be acknowledged, but I'm sure it will be appreciated.

We cannot MAKE her feel anything. It is entirely her choice to feel cherished or not, emotionally safe or not.



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