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Author Topic: BPD and the aversion to apologizing  (Read 431 times)
nightmoves
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« on: September 25, 2014, 11:26:27 PM »

Does anyone know if a pwBPD typically find it almost impossible to apologize?

My BPDw - seems almost incapable of apologizing and certainly doing anthing she can to avoid looking at herself.

Why/what is the reason for this?
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Lucky One
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2014, 05:55:04 AM »

Hi There Nightmoves,

If you type in: "BPD & Apologising" in the search block / site above, you'll get your answer. Just too many things for me to quote here.

Amazing site this - I'm sure you'll agree.

Feel free to check out my story under my profile. Also no apologies received!

Good luck with your search.
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nightmoves
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2014, 10:35:57 AM »

Thank you Lucky One... .

The threads were very helpful and illuminating

Here is the thing though... .IF ... .the pwBPD never apologizes to the Non... .do they EVER then feel any remorse? Do they ever feel they were out of line regarding their actions or behaviors?

IF the answer is no.

THEN - how would the behavior... .ever... .stop?

AND... .if they behavior is not abated... .or at a minimum ... .not acknowledged or a feeling of remorse is not shown... .(even IF apology not given)... .

Then HOW does a non (like ME)... .DEAL with that.


Admittedly... .I have "taken" WAY more than my fair share of attacks, verbal abuse, critiques, blame - and many times via true RAGE.

If have delved into the some of  the steps of "dealing" with this situation and as such spent many many hours  educating oneself to BPD... .(done that in volumes)... .learning the tools to reduce the chaos and triggers  (again... .in volumes)AND trying to protect my own self worth along the way (probably one of the toughest steps actually)... .

So MAYBE... .two things are happenning.

1. I have gotten actually BETTER at not providing any triggers. AND when I see her going down a "road" toward BPD dysreulation... .I have learned how to not get caught in the web - and to let her be on that road by herself... .(do not mean I leave... .just do not try to help/engage/ be a target... etc... .)

AND then CURIOUSLY

2. By combination of maintaining some distance... .AND... .avoiding becoming an easy target... .The attack on me has to be even MORE ridiculous... .MORE implausible... .MORE nonsensical... .They now less get me wounded as I am TRULY more "watching a strange sci-fi movie... .and the jaw dropping double takes are more of what I feel myself doing rather than being wounded by the statements.

AND EVEN WITH THE ABOVE... .I am supportive enough... .love her for real enough... .that I am JUST needing her to acknowledge and feel a bit badly (apology would be wonderful too... .but... .) for what she said and the fury.

So when even THAT is not forthcoming... .I feel something new.

Anger.

That she could treat me this bad... .when there is NO ... .NONE... .NOT A THREAD... .of "reason" and I feel NO blame for the issue.

Hurt.

That simply hearing me recount how that contempt and treatment makes me feel does not seem to even MATTER to her.

(I COULD NOT ... .do that ... .even IF I felt genuinely right... .the way my spouse was left to feel by my actions/behaviors would trump that )

Confused

SO ... .KNOWING ... .how finally angry and hurt and upset I am over the behavior... .it seems that there is NO angst by her over it... .SO... .what does THAT mean? She is ... .OK... .with all that? How/WHY?  WHO could expect a person to go on... .being treated this way? And if they do not really... .then ... .does it even matter the them if we are HERE?

The absolute resistance to even CONSIDER the spouse ... means WHAT?

I have read... .all the posts ... .that a non should not EVER expect an apology... .

SO - how do others even rationalize all that means... .?
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Infern0
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2014, 09:53:32 PM »

In my experience although they don't apologize they do feel guilt on some level.

It's a different level to you and me but you get admissions from them about hurting people etc. Mine said "I know I'm hurting you" and she was genuinely upset when she said it. I told her stop doing it then and she said she couldn't and didn't know why.

They are confused about their behaviour as much as we are.  Their brains just don't process like ours.

A genuine apology is virtually impossible
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flowerpath
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2014, 03:22:31 AM »

Hi, nightmoves. 

Sometimes it can feel as though we were caught in an awfully dirty trick. 

Early in marriage with my husband, I was dumbfounded at how he felt that apologizing was unnecessary.  I recall discussions about that.  He actually rejected apologies from me.  Over time, I realized that he felt justified in his behavior no matter how wrong it was, so basically before I knew that there was any such thing as BPD, I learned to never expect an apology. 

Excerpt
... .do they EVER then feel any remorse? Do they ever feel they were out of line regarding their actions or behaviors?

Even if they do feel remorse, it may not necessarily be expressed.   I have seen my husband apologize to our kids, and at this point in my life, that matters more than an apology to me.  Though he has not apologized directly to me for his hurtful behaviors toward me, he has stated regret about bad choices.  That regret had more to do with how his choices have negatively impacted him and what he has accomplished in life, but the bad choices have also impacted our family as a whole, so I feel that the statement of regret, though not an apology, is a positive thing.

Excerpt
... .if their behavior is not abated... .or at a minimum ... .not acknowledged or a feeling of remorse is not shown... .(even IF apology not given)... .

Then HOW does a non (like ME)... .DEAL with that.

I deal with it just as you said - by looking out for myself.  I am careful not to invalidate, which is the primary thing that triggers my husband’s reactions.  It’s hard, because simple facts that would go right past a nonBPD and are not intended as any kind of criticism can hurt his feelings.   I pay attention to his words, his tone of voice, his body language, and try to figure out what his perspective is on a situation.   I try to keep those nine categories of BPD characteristics in my mind to try to make sense of it and not take it personally.  If I put the behavior where it belongs, recognize the source, and let it bounce off me like I have some kind of invisible shield around me, then that keeps me from expecting an apology.  Sometimes I fail, but I do see a difference in the quality of life here at home as a result of changing my own behavior and my own thinking.

Excerpt
I feel something new.   

Anger…   

Hurt…. 

Confused…

SO - how do others even rationalize all that means... .?

Here’s how I put this together.  The bottom line is that life is different for us because BPD is a disorder.  It’s easy to recognize intellectual disabilities, physical disabilities, hearing and vision impairments, speech and language impairments, etc.  Think of how families respond to and help family members with those kinds of disabilities.  BPD is an emotional impairment – a mental illness - that is incredibly complex. In the mind of a pwBPD, our feelings may always be on the back burner... .or never even on their radar.   We get to choose whether we will accept that it is what it is and put these tools to work or not.  I just accept the fact that simply because of the nature of BPD, expecting an apology is unrealistic, so I focus on something else. 

Learning as much as I can about this, and putting the pain of the past into the perspective of a BPD framework, has helped to ease my resentment.  It’s helped me to focus on what kinds of behaviors I do want to see (the kinds of behaviors for which no apology is needed) instead of focusing on the kinds of unpleasant behaviors I have seen in the past or don’t want to see in the future.   

My heart goes out to you.   It takes a certain kind of strong to be the spouse of a pwBPD, doesn’t it?   

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Hawk Ridge
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2014, 10:01:46 AM »

My ex,when in her devaluation period, would jump down my back if I apologized, would call me co-dependent if I said I missed her, accused me of 'over-communicating' if I tried to work with her to fix things, but then after she brutally and abruptly left me after our contact was diminishing... .she then apologized. She refused to go to couples counseling as it was 'too late.'  I was powerless to have any contribution in our relationship  In contact since, I have kept my self-disclosure minimal as I didn't want to set myself up for her critical and inconsistent responses. I have been kind and supportive with minimal verbal contribution, cautious that anything I say or do would push me into blackness so... .no apologies from my end.  Weird and hard to understand
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Lucky One
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« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2014, 02:32:22 AM »

Hi Nightmoves,

I’m glad the “Apologising” threads were of assistance to you.

The way I see it:

The biggest and main defence mechanism of a BPD is:

1.)   Their denial, and

2.)   Their blame shifting

So how can they apologise, when it’s NOT their fault.

If we are to stay in the relationship we just need to fully realize, what we are living with, and take care of ourselves.

This is where I am at the moment.

Things will never be normal, unless my uBPDw makes a commitment to take responsibility for her actions. And, face the consequences!

Until then, if ever that point is reached, because in my understanding only a few BPD’s ever make the choice to change, I have to be the one who “ducks & dives” to keep things going.

And this is extremely hard and really painful to do, on a continuous basis – every day. That’s the REALITY for me.

Surely, one is allowed to ENJOY living!

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