their inner conflict

[ziniztar]

Today I asked bf a question: shall I spend the night with you?

He has to work until 2. I need to go to his place anyways to drop off the car.

The minute I asked that question I felt I got anxious, about getting into old patterns. Me, for letting my actions depend on his answers. And of course, his vague answer returned: 'you are always allowed to sleep here'. Which annoyed the hell out of me. Do you want me to be there or not? If not, then why should I bother? Well hell, maybe we should just split up immediately! (abandoned child talking there).

I searched for 'vague' answers on this site and read about someone's b/f that explained this state as: "It's like I have 9439 little me's in my head and I don't know who to listen to."

Then I remembered my T's explanation of BPD: like it's a big office meeting with people discussing next years budget planning, without someone to lead that meeting. Therapy is focused on strengthening the president of the meeting (the healthy adult in schema therapy).

And then it hit me.

What if the vague answers aren't about me (yeah ok I saw that one coming).

What if it's his internal dialogue that is making it impossible for him to know and say what he wants?

The detached self-soother will say: "Whatever, I don't care what you do."

The lonely child will say: "Please yes please come over!"

The abandoned child will say: "But I'm afraid you're going to leave me again anyways, so I'd rather not get attached too much."

The punitive parent will say: "No, you do not deserve this!" (don't forget the cheating a few weeks ago)

Last week I said: "Please remember I really want to see you, every day if I could, but you need to let me know you want this. Why don't you just say "I want you to come over". Then he sadly smiled, nodded and said: "That's not how my head works."

Just wanted to share this with you.

I decided to go anyways, but to leave early (enough) in the morning to not feel dependent and do my own weekend stuff.  

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[DreamFlyer99]

Aww!

Such awareness both you and he show--you're amazing in thinking through his response and your response to his response. (did I say "response" enough? )

I understand where you're coming from, wanting some sort of affirmation that he wants you to be there, and actually his statement of "you're always allowed" is pretty sweet. To me it sounds like "you're always welcome." It's not a specific time affirmation but it's a general one, an all-encompassing one as it were.

I too struggle with knowing which part of Broken Me is answering and why. There's so much overlap with Chronic PTSD and BPD that sometimes I think my T is just protecting me by not saying I have BPD. But as she says, the work is all the same. Working on integrating all the pieces of our broken selves, learning not to react out of the fear and trauma. SO HARD!

I'm so glad you shared this Ziniztar. 

[maxsterling]

Interesting.  My fiancé claims I give ambiguous answers.  I've been thinking a lot about this lately, and what I have discovered:

1) I give ambiguous answers to avoid conflict.  I've done this all my life, but probably 100x worse in my r/s with my fiancé because she WILL start a serious conflict if I give the wrong answer

2)  My fiancé asks questions that are unclear, and much of her frustration is because I am not answering the question she thinks she asked.  She doesn't realize her questions are unclear, though. 

3)  My fiancé is extremely indecisive herself, and I hear plenty of "I don't care, whatever you want" or "whatever" responses.  Last night she was trying to get wedding invitations together, and she was asking me what font to use to address the envelopes.  "Which one do you want" she would ask.  Or she would ask how the names on the envelopes should look, or how to format the addresses - leaving that all up to me. 

I think her inner turmoil is that she doesn't know who she is.  No identity, and thus the difficulty making decisions.  the only time she makes decisions is when she is dysregulated, then they are forceful decisions based upon raw emotions.  My turmoil is different.  On topics I care about, I do know what I want and who I am.  My difficulty is when I have to work with someone else on the topic at hand, and to convey my needs and wants without alienating others.

[ziniztar]

Thanks Dreamflyer

Masterxling, hope you are getting towards a decision but remember, it's not always the right time to make a decision.

I also now realize my own situation. I don't have multiple voices, I have one, and it is screaming very loudly in such a way that I can't overrule it, the one of the abandoned child. Yesterday I was on the phone with dBPDbf and he mentioned in the 2nd sentence he was on his way to his new business partner. Blond, tiny, skinny, everything I am afraid of. And she will be spending time with him on a daily basis, even on Sunday nights, and what do I get? A sleepover mid-week that will only cause me to sleep worse, hence affect my work the next day. He wants to go to hockey practice so can't be there before 23:00.

I couldn't get out of my panic mode, tried to stay calm but I couldn't tell him about my weekend away that he asked about, or anything else. My mood had just switched from happy to paralyzed in a matter of seconds and he doesn't know how to deal with it. In fact, he makes it even worse by retreating (read: abandoning) more.

Told him today that I calmed down a bit and I hope we could talk. I really don't see how the two of us could be together if we're not able to deal with each others' moods. Two inner conflicts never really lead to constructive new paths... I hope that me calming down will lure him out of his hiding. That would be a first... .but I'm really not sure if we can do this.

[Haye]

ziniztar, your boyfriend sounds a lot like my SO. Most of the time he doesn't give a straight answer, because he can't. Trying to get a real answer only causes anxiety. I think i've gotten similar type "i'm sorry, but my head just doesn't work like that" in trying to get him to say if he wants me to be with him more (we live together, but do not necesserily spend nights together).  It's a chaos in there.

[ziniztar]

Haye, how did you arrange your way of living together?

I had one of the worst days in history, completely in panic about yesterday. Texted him too much this morning, called for an hour an blamed him for not working hard enough to see each other. That he has to show he wants this and that I'm not seeing it.

Not very nice of me. He got really evasive, said "I don't know" to nearly all my questions. I even heard him asking his roommates if someone could feed him dinner because he felt his brain was boiling. A few things went different after that conversation than before. I called him 2 hours later.

> He picked up the phone!

> I apologized for my behavior.

> He didn't expect that, was silent. Went ahead and asked other stuff about my day in a normal voice.

> It was the first time he accepted that what happened today, was my thing. My irrational behaviour. I don't know for how long I've tried to make him see that, that not EVERYTHING that happens is his fault.

He said 'we'll always have discussions like an hour ago, that will never change. You will say that you're disappointed with how much time we're spending and I will say I can't change it. That conversation will never change. (Which triggered me to think of the high conflict couple book). I don't think that will ever change. I do think we can be a couple, you and me. But that you have to look at the time we spend together, not the time we're not together!

I was able to give an example of a crying kid in the supermarket that lost his mother, and how in that scenario the mother is the only one that can soothe the child. And that I don't expect him to soothe me - because I should learn this myself - but that it would help if he could say 'girly it's okay, we'll see each other in two days'.

What I still don't like is that he stays 100% sure he won't be able to change. That stings a little - why the hell is he going to therapy?

[waverider]

It was a vague answer to a vague question.

If you had said "I would like to spend the night here unless that doesn't suit you?" that might have been better

As it was you were asking him to tell you what you should do, not asking him if he is ok with your preferred option. Black and white thinkers need black and white questions.

Using a couple of analogies:

"I want salad for dinner, would you like that to?"(yes/no/alternative option answer) vs "what do you want me to make for dinner"(dunno can't be bothered thinking answer/confusion or not caring what you want).

Provide a default action that he has the option to object to, rather giving him the responsibility to make your decisions for you.

Its easier to push a boulder down hill towards someone than encourage them to push it up the hill to you. To move forward you need momentum that does not require a pwBPD to initiate.

[ziniztar]

Thanks waverider, that helps.

It does cause a lot of resentment, 'normal' people would be able to deal with such a question. I hate it that I have to think through everything I do in order to get a normal response from him.

I'm still not sure if I'm up for this, although I do like the dynamics that are changing between us when I change my behaviour. I'm just really scared all the effort I put in is not going to matter, and that he will cheat on me in the future another time, and I will be forced to leave.

I already feel very, very, very weak for staying. Why the hell would I believe in him if he can't?

[waverider]

I'm just really scared all the effort I put in is not going to matter, and that he will cheat on me in the future another time, and I will be forced to leave.

It will matter because you are improving you. Even if this RS fails you will have learned so much about you and how to interact more healthier with people

This is as much about recovering you as it is about the RS

[Haye]

Haye, how did you arrange your way of living together?

Er, we live in a big house, with own rooms for both of us. 

Lately i have been spending more nights in his bed, even though he has been distant and preferred to stay up much later than me gaming etc. I know he likes to have me in the same bed, he sees quite bad nightmares and likes to hug me (or such) if he wakes up to one of them. Mostly i don't mind the arrangement, it allows him to control how much cuddle time he wishes to spend quite easily.

[ziniztar]

This is as much about recovering you as it is about the RS

Then still, I could also quit the r/s and work on the issues myself, without all this drama. I've told close friends that I'm actually using him as a study object, as I can't make the same progress in therapy without a r/s. So I'd rather stick with him, so I have good real life examples, and see whatever happens if things improve.

It feels wrong for some reason.

[waverider]

This is as much about recovering you as it is about the RS

Then still, I could also quit the r/s and work on the issues myself, without all this drama. I've told close friends that I'm actually using him as a study object, as I can't make the same progress in therapy without a r/s. So I'd rather stick with him, so I have good real life examples, and see whatever happens if things improve.

It feels wrong for some reason.

We can do a lot to self improve but it is human nature not to, unless we have to. A pwBPD is like the drill sergeant at bootcamp, they do not allow you to slack off without being punished and making life harder