Live your life Quit expecting the BPD to like it, approve of it, or support it

[Moselle]

Yes, we can choose to live our lives. Where did I get the flawed view that I need to be enmeshed in her plans, and allow that to dominate my energy spend?

Why do my thoughts, emotions, efforts need to be spent on caretaking her/thinking about the relationship.

I choose to live my life.

But could I ask for a bit of encouragement because I don't really know how yet?  

Tomorrow is a new day right? I should be able to do it for one day? We sent someone to the moon. I can go through one day with out being enmeshed with my BPD wife.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[RebeccaN]

Moselle,

I am exactly where you are right now. I just want to take a break mentally from all of the conflict and constant obsessing over my gf and take a moment to care for myself. Like you, I haven't figured out exactly how to do this yet. I am so conditioned to react to everything my gf says and does. The only reason I am even able to clear my head enough to realize some things is because she is out of town giving me the silent treatment. Usually, she calls me several times a day. 24 hours of silence has been painful, yet oddly peaceful.

I find it helps to spend time with someone in your life who is positive and thinks positively of you. After hearing so many insults, I start believing I must really be flawed. However, when I surround myself with people who only life me up and believe in me, I remember who I am.

Good luck to you! I hope you find a way to take time for you today. Do something that makes you smile. Happy Sunday!   

[maxsterling]

About all I can say is it will be a lifelong struggle with a pwBPD.  I'm told that clear boundaries are the way to move forward, but don't count on the pwBPD to not constantly challenge those boundaries. My fiance can't stand spending time by herself, can't keep friendships for very long, and I don't expect that to change.  That means, she will probably always be looking to me to show her how to live her life.  Today, she was asking me how to get started cleaning the house   GRRR.  You find something that is dirty, find the appropriate thing to clean it with, and start cleaning!

[MissyM]

This is why I find alanon helpful, the 3 gets of alanon

Get off the addict's (BPD) back

Get out of their way

and Get on with your life

Really helps me get back on my side of the street and move on.

[Moselle]

THanks for all your comments folks. I'very woken up with a real sense of purpose about my day. Get off their back, get out of their way, get on with your life. I like that. I can do that he just for one day.

[Ceruleanblue]

Maxsterling: I was just talking to my therapist this week about how uBPDh is always challenging my boundaries, and probably always will. I actually said it feels like he is constantly trying to renegotiate. It feels like he will agree to something(like the terms I stated before I'd let him move back home when we'd separated), then he later wants to renegotiate. I think it's probably common for those with BPD, but it does get tiring.

You sound so endlessly patient with your wife/SO, and you seem to always have a good attitude. What is your secret? 

[Moselle]

This is my vision, just for today

"In the past I have made an unwise choice to hand power over to a person that exhibits traits of a serious mental disorder. I now know that this was an unhealthy choice. I will pour all of my energy and love into healing and recovering myself, and actively holding myself accountable and responsible for my own life. This includes learning to love, soothe and accept myself, becoming excited about my life and its possibilities, working hard at opportunities that I find stimulating, fathering my children and educating myself about how to act in this r/s, in the healthiest manner possible. I commit to working though a DBT process with her and the children. I recognise that I have no control, I cannot make her change. She will always have a serious mental illness. I will do my best. I or my partner may choose to end the r/s... .I know that I have chosen to be independent and healthy emotionally, that I've left nothing on the table d have no regrets about my actions."

[Moselle]

I have pre agreed that either of us has the right to raise any issue for 3 days. After that it's dead, gone cannot be brought up again. Then we have 5 days to negotiate a solution.  The principle is that we only have an 8 day back log of issues, instead of 14 years!

She has tried to get under my skin already today. I refused and said put it in an email. I'll read it tomorrow. She hit the roof and started the usual hook which keeps me in the conversation. FOG. But I refused, just kept repeating that until she angrily said "fine I'm going home to send that email right now"

Feel good, not stressed. It's going well. I'M getting on with my life today!

[ziniztar]

Backlog? Do you work in IT? 

[Moselle]

Backlog? Do you work in IT? 

Not directly, but I use IT    very awkardly

BTW, she hasn't sent her email. But she has phoned me back... .5 times.

Silly me. I thought it was about solving a problem. Nope, it's about enmeshment, and today, just for today it isn't working!

Amazing, it's almost like she sensed the shift and lack of control.

I have felt grounded, and effective, not enmeshed and scattered. I'm very proud of myself.

[MissyM]

I have felt grounded, and effective, not enmeshed and scattered. I'm very proud of myself.

Awesome!

[Moselle]

She has apparently sensed what I'm doing today, because, she is being unbelievably difficult. She insisted that we have a discussion about a money issue she raised yesterday. I just said I'm not willing to discuss that today. Please put the issue in an email. and we can discuss it tomorrow.

That takes the manipulation away, the blaming, the drama, the shifting goalposts.

I asked to speak to my three girls on skype tonight. She said  "What's wrong with me. Why don't you want to talk to me?" 

Still strong. I won't let her affect me. I got so much done today.

Thanks for all your support!

[Wrongturn1]

Way to go, Moselle!  It's inspiring the way you are intentionally making a sane day for yourself.

[maxsterling]

You sound so endlessly patient with your wife/SO, and you seem to always have a good attitude. What is your secret? 

I tend to be a patient person in general, but I think what really helps me is the years I lived by myself taking care of my own needs and discovering who I was.  It helps me not take her crap personally, and helps me not expect or need anything from her.  So if she is depressed and wants to lay around the sofa all day - it doesn't phase me so much.  I only grow tires of her endless complaints about life and no motivation to do anything  about them.

[Moselle]

Way to go, Moselle!  It's inspiring the way you are intentionally making a sane day for yourself.

To top it off I just had a 45 minute  skype session with my three girls telling knock knock joke and other silly stories. We laughed and giggled together - pure heaven. I go to sleep with a happy heart, and having stayed true to my goal. She did everything she could to ruin it, and she is dysregulated right now, but I have no anxiety towards her. Genuinely

If we/I can do it for one day, we can do it every day!

Good night all. and thanks for being with me through out the day

[Harri]

This is the best post ever!   

[tayana]

I love this post!  I"m going through this with my expwBPD.  She wants to stay in the house, so we have to live together, and I'm tired of her guilting and bullying.  I'm just gonna live my life.

[Ewing]

About all I can say is it will be a lifelong struggle with a pwBPD.  I'm told that clear boundaries are the way to move forward, but don't count on the pwBPD to not constantly challenge those boundaries. My fiance can't stand spending time by herself, can't keep friendships for very long, and I don't expect that to change.  That means, she will probably always be looking to me to show her how to live her life.  Today, she was asking me how to get started cleaning the house   GRRR.  You find something that is dirty, find the appropriate thing to clean it with, and start cleaning!

wow, did that crack me up.  thank you

[Rapt Reader]

Yes, we can choose to live our lives. Where did I get the flawed view that I need to be enmeshed in her plans, and allow that to dominate my energy spend?

Why do my thoughts, emotions, efforts need to be spent on caretaking her/thinking about the relationship.

I choose to live my life.

But could I ask for a bit of encouragement because I don't really know how yet?  

Tomorrow is a new day right? I should be able to do it for one day? We sent someone to the moon. I can go through one day with out being enmeshed with my BPD wife.

Great attitude, Moselle, and I'm glad your plan worked for you 

We have a book review of a book that my sister just loves (she is married to a BPD Husband, who is a wonderful guy, but very damaged by a horrible childhood and who is very hard to live with). She told me about it all last weekend, and told me that (along with Stop Walking on Eggshells by Randi Kreger) it has changed her life! (Yeah, with all of those exclamation points   ). She is committed to staying with him, and she said this book is helping her in a million ways... .

Here's our book review: Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist, and it's a very perceptive, easy to understand, helpful book. This is an excerpt that seems pretty applicable to this thread:

Faulty Thinking  If they feel a certain way, BP/NPs will assume that someone or something outside of themselves made them feel that way. As the closest family member, the Caretaker is usually the one who must take the blame for how the BP/NP is feeling. The BP/NP often uses the phrase, “You made me feel . . .” Since the BP/NP’s feelings actually come from his or her own emotional reactions and internal chemistry, this can feel very confusing to you. The more confused you feel, the more vulnerable you are to discounting your own judgment, believing that you really are the cause, and going along with the BP/NP to keep the peace.  If the BP/NP feels better in response to what you do, you can get caught up in thinking that you do have the power to make the BP/NP feel worse or better. You buy into his or her delusion. This can reinforce you into continuing in the role of Caretaker. But the more you believe the delusion that you are responsible for how the BP/NP feels, the worse you feel about yourself. This leads to lower and lower self-esteem, more trying on your part to fix what cannot be fixed, and more entrapment in the Caretaker role.

Based on my experience with this book, and my sister's real-life applying of its information and advice to her own life and marriage, I highly recommend it 

[Moselle]

Great attitude, Moselle, and I'm glad your plan worked for you 

We have a book review of a book that my sister just loves (she is married to a BPD Husband, who is a wonderful guy, but very damaged by a horrible childhood and who is very hard to live with). She told me about it all last weekend, and told me that (along with Stop Walking on Eggshells by Randi Kreger) it has changed her life! (Yeah, with all of those exclamation points   ). She is committed to staying with him, and she said this book is helping her in a million ways... .

Here's our book review: Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist, and it's a very perceptive, easy to understand, helpful book. This is an excerpt that seems pretty applicable to this thread:

Faulty Thinking  If they feel a certain way, BP/NPs will assume that someone or something outside of themselves made them feel that way. As the closest family member, the Caretaker is usually the one who must take the blame for how the BP/NP is feeling. The BP/NP often uses the phrase, “You made me feel . . .” Since the BP/NP’s feelings actually come from his or her own emotional reactions and internal chemistry, this can feel very confusing to you. The more confused you feel, the more vulnerable you are to discounting your own judgment, believing that you really are the cause, and going along with the BP/NP to keep the peace.  If the BP/NP feels better in response to what you do, you can get caught up in thinking that you do have the power to make the BP/NP feel worse or better. You buy into his or her delusion. This can reinforce you into continuing in the role of Caretaker. But the more you believe the delusion that you are responsible for how the BP/NP feels, the worse you feel about yourself. This leads to lower and lower self-esteem, more trying on your part to fix what cannot be fixed, and more entrapment in the Caretaker role.

Based on my experience with this book, and my sister's real-life applying of its information and advice to her own life and marriage, I highly recommend it 

:-) Rapt, I've had the "stop caretaking" book for 2 months now. I can agree with your sister. It is life changing. I have alot of respect for her deciding to stay. That take's a huge commitment.

Just now, my wife is in a splitting me black and she's in an "I'm divorcing you" phase. That may be the ultimate outcome, but I'm at peace with it. That book has helped me break the cycle of co-dependence with her. To realise that enmeshment or not, is actually my choice, just as much a choice as what to wear in the morning, where to eat for lunch. as your quote says. No-one makes anyone feel or be anything.

I still need to get the 'walking on eggshells' book.

It's amazing how our speech or what we write reflects our mindset. A friend wrote to me yesterday after seeing some of the fish I caught. He said "You have to teach me how to fish!". My reply "No I don't have to, but if you want to join me it'd be great to have you along"

[Olinda]

Loving this thread. Have not posted in a while but am feeling much like Moselle, living my life, being happy with my offerings and staying true to me.

Recognizing my part of believing the hook (You make me feel... .) and understanding that just because she feels a certain way does not mean that I am to blame. That was key from my own therapy. 

Couples therapy has not worked for us. Except as a way to 'therapize' my partner under the auspices of couples therapy. Now she has her own therapist and is also seeing a life coach. I am staying out of it, for the most part.

I am also in school and so have limited time now for her which has caused issues, but I am being clear about intentional time set aside for her. She is not happy with my boundaries and availability, but that is her right.

The more I have stayed out of her emotions and caretaking, the better things have been. I'm hopeful right now that the outbursts will be fewer and farther between.

Keep up the inspiration on here, all! Thanks for inspiring words and ways to take care of ourselves!

[RebeccaN]

Wow, two years later and this thread still struck a chord with me. I truly needed to read this today. ❤️

[Moselle]

Wow.  Thanks for raising it again RebeccaN.

I just read the thread again. Some powerful messages in it.

Whats news with your relationship?

[RebeccaN]

Hi Moselle!

I agree, there is a great message in this. I find it an empowering reminder that we still have control over one thing: ourselves. I have been so consumed with my on and off relationship that I have almost lost myself. I find reading other's stories and venting really helps to feel less alone. However, this thread is a little different because to me it is about taking a positive action for ourselves. It seems most of us spend so much time care taking we completely forget to care for ourselves. I read the advice about al anon, and I never even thought of it as something that would apply to this situation. I think I am going to give it a try.

I am very committed to my relationship, even though it's unstable. Right now I am getting the silent treatment and have been told by others I'm no longer in a relationship, but my partner hadn't actually said those words to me. This happens every so often and lasts for a few weeks or months. At this point something inside me reminds me it isn't truly done. But it still hurts being in limbo and not knowing.

I feel like I spend every waking moment thinking about this relationship. Now I have a weekend off and I'm alone and I'm almost frozen. I have to ask myself, "what would make you happy?" "What would you like to do today?" I think learning to live again needs to be my priority because I can't do anything to fix anyone but me.

I think many of us have put our feelings aside for so long. I'm aloud to feel. My thoughts, feelings, and emotions are important and valid too. And it's ok to be happy. I don't have to feel guilty for having a positive outlook on life. As you said before... ."just for today."

[Moselle]

Yes, it is a positive message for any time.

They are masters at getting our attention and we are masters at giving it to them. It really is a bit of a toxic soup if we play by the borline's rules. Break them and live,

What do you think you can do during this silent teatment episode to let him know things have changed?

I remember how painful the silent treatments were. I learned a trick.  As soon as it started I did fun things for me. Fishing, connecting with old friends, movies. Before long I was looking forward to the silences  It was my trigger to self care. What do you you think his reasons are for giving you the silent treatment?

[waverider]

I found I had to force my new "me'. I was surprised it worked, but it did. The reason i believe is simply because my wife has no fixed beliefs as to her own values, but rather just objects to change. This objection is going to be raised no matter the change. If i am committed enough to my change, eventually she accepts this new me as easily as any other.

As a result the deciding factor really is who do I want to be, and to make that a reality rather than just a hope. I am the tractor and my wife is the trailer, not viz versa. She gets lost as a driver, but can adapt to being carried along, just as long as she sees it as an option not as domination. Leading not pushing.

The difference between thrive and survive is how you set your default action.

[Notwendy]

This objection is going to be raised no matter the change. If i am committed enough to my change, eventually she accepts this new me as easily as any other.

This makes so much sense. I married, assuming we would work things out as a team. However, just about any idea is met with a negative response. Sometimes, a bit later, my H might present the same idea as "his". It didn't seem to matter what the topic was. The response would be a "No". However, if he happened to hear the same idea, he might think about it before saying yes or no.

The "no" would be most likely if it was something I wanted to do on my own, which would trigger a fear. A new hobby could provoke a meltdown or lecture about why I should not do it, eventually leading to " you might meet someone (male) who shares that interest and run off with him". I have many friends who take short trips " with the girls"- to do something fun- like go to a major city to see a play,  but those were out of the question " it is unfair for you to get to do something that fun while I have to stay home and work" Yet, I had no problem if he wanted to go somewhere on a guy trip- fishing, whatever.

When we married we both had many friends. I really wanted my marriage to work, and I believed in team work. So, I took these negative responses seriously. Why would I want to do things that upset my H? Years later, we have virtually no couple friends and not being able to do things "with the girls" resulted in having almost no other friends.

It was our MC who urged me to attend co-dependency 12 step meetings. Right in front of my H, she urged me to go- really had to urge me since I had gotten used to not rocking the boat.  This was a change. They were in the evening. My H liked me home in the evenings. But I went, and now he is used to that. I have also added activities which have helped me make friends. These changes were met with resistance at first, but this is my new normal.

One very big consideration was the children. Since he didn't help much with them, my ability to do things was very limited. Couples with children need to consider that first. Since my mother has BPD, and I recall how things were if we were alone with her, I was very sensitive to that. My H is thankfully a good father to the kids. I was the object of his rages and resentment. Yet, I feared that if I wasn't, they might have been. So, I was protective of that. Now, they are older and fine on their own if I do an activity.

So, my addition to WW's idea is to set your new normal - but take care of the children first- however that may be- either get a sitter, send them to family to visit, take them with you. You may need to put some things on hold till they get a bit older,  but be the leader of your own life.

[Cat Familiar]

I was the total placater in my first marriage and I dealt with rages frequently. I took a lot of abuse before I finally drew boundaries that were deal breakers and then realized I needed to call it quits because he was never going to be the nice person he pretended to be at the beginning. After I got out of that marriage, one of my friends said, "You couldn't even go to the store by yourself." It was true. Even if he didn't want to go in, he would wait for me in the car. It was more like a prison sentence than a marriage.

With that history, I was determined not to make the same mistake twice. But then I married another pwBPD!    This one is a lot nicer and I've been my own person throughout the marriage. I did have the mistaken belief in teamwork--doing projects together, hiking, horseback riding, gardening.

Nope! None of that is of any interest to him. So I do the things I enjoy with my friends and he grouses about how he's not as important as my animals. He doesn't like my friends. Too bad. He's missing out on a lot of fun.

[Notwendy]

My H is a great father to our kids. The issues between us have basically been between us and on the spectrum, my H is probably more traits with my BPD mom being on the other extreme. Yet, my reactivity to anything resembling BPD was well established in my childhood- appease, soothe, give in, to any kind of disapproval or distress or else. Even though I know better now, I still feel flooded if someone yells at me: I freeze, can't think, get rattled.

I love being a team player. I don't like to be a "my way or the highway" person, but when there was a disagreement, this was the choice my H proposed. His way and I would give in. It was a slow progression with my H. He knew better than to appear to be a controlling guy, but my reactivity to anyone's moods made me such an easy person to manipulate. Eventually, I didn't even consider that I could go out in the evenings, do things with friends. Some of the things I missed out on just make me shake my head. Didn't see a rock singer I liked since somehow my H convinced me that liking this singer was cheating on him ( as if the singer had any clue about the fans in the audience, but his argument was because I had met him and gotten his autograph that it was a"relationship" ), missed a high school reunion and more.

I never imagined this behavior was any sign of insecurity. He always seemed so confident. If anyone had the potential to cheat, it was my H. There was even a woman at his job who was after him and many more possibilities. I was with the kids constantly. I have no desire to cheat, but couldn't imagine how anyone would have made a pass at a woman with kids in tow. Yet if I expressed any concern about women chasing him, he would accuse me of being jealous. On the other hand, he even accused me of somehow betraying him by dating people before we even met.

Sometimes, if I go somewhere, he still asks me "who was there" ( ie men). Once I was late coming home from a 12 step meeting because of bad weather and that started it. I have never cheated and don't wish to even go there.

We do agree on may important things- but it is often a more parallel relationship than team negotiation. Fortunately many of our values align together. When we go out together it is just us or as a family. Socializing with others together seems to be a stressful situation for some reason so we don't socialize as a pair with other people. He has his friends and interests and I have mine. The difference is once, I didn't have mine. He did his thing, I stayed home. Now I do my own thing too and I am quite happy pursuing my interests.

[SingOn]

Notwendy, I have gone through/am still dealing with so many of the things you describe! I am a musician, and that is the one thing I pursued despite my H's objections (which boiled down to the unfairness of my doing something fulfilling while he dutifully did the "real" work (it didn't matter that I only took paying jobs, bc he'd argue he made so much more) and that I was with people I enjoyed being with "more" than him, including and especially men.)) The one big regret I do have is leaving the children with him, but that is the subject for a different thread... .

At any rate, the pattern continues. I pick and choose things that are super important to me and let the rest go. But what about the rest of those things? I love biking, and have gone on organized rides with my woman friends where men are also present. H hates this and I have stopped doing it.  I know without a shadow of a doubt that I would never start anything with any of the men, so one part of me feels sure it's ok to do this, especially because my good friends go without any flack from their H's. Another part of me can see why he would get bent out of shape thinking about this. And so I naturally go back to my pattern of giving in, not in a healthy 'We're a team" kind of way, although the pattern may have started that way, but somewhat resentfully. It's so hard for me to figure out what's reasonable, sometimes. Yes, I want to live my own life, but at what point do you compromise? Because that's what marriage is about, compromising. But as we all know, that whole process gets skewed with pwBPD.