I feel like I have hit a brick wall

[vortex of confusion]

I am feeling like I have hit a brick wall.

My husband was out of town for a couple of days. While he was gone, things were so peaceful at home. The kids didn't argue as much and I was able to relax. The kids wondered why dad had to come home so soon and asked questions like, "Is dad still going to be a jerk when he comes home?"

The more peaceful things were and the more the kids asked questions and made comments about dad, the madder I got. I wasn't mad at them. I was mad at the fact that I feel like I am doing all of this work and trying to find ways to make things more peaceful and meet my husband where he is. I have been trying to recognize his efforts and validate him. But I find myself asking the question: "Why am I doing this? What am I going to get out of this?" There is no hope of ever having any kind of real relationship with him. We were talking last night about love languages and things that each of us need. His idea of an act of service is changing the cat boxes or emptying the dishwasher. I tried to explain to him that those are not acts of service for me as much as they are things that need to be done to maintain the household. It is frustrating to feel like I am the one that is keeping up with all of the household duties because that is what grown ups do while he sees it as doing it for me. When he wasn't here, I was able to keep up with the house a lot easier because there wasn't the push/pull of him not doing anything and then saying something to me when I try to do things. When he is around, I do very little around the house because I don't want to deal with him making comments like, "I was going to do that."

Right now, I feel dysregulated and all I want is to get a divorce and live peacefully with my kids. Reading through the lessons frustrates me because it feels like it all falls on my shoulders. I feel like I am the one that is solely responsible for not setting him off, keeping my mouth shut, and basically taking whatever it is I can get from him. And, I feel like I am supposed to not get upset and not speak my mind.

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat21]

  I'm sorry, Vortex. That sucks.

Sometimes reading the lessons make me feel that way, too, and I find myself asking some of the same questions you just did. Then there are other times when I use no tools and go with my gut, and everything is great. It's confusing and tiring.

[workinprogress]

VOC, isn't it nice when they are gone for a few days?

I recall my wife going on a cruise with her mom a couple of years back.  Everything was so nice and peaceful in the house.

[maxsterling]

I've certainly seen that "brick wall".   For me its when I think of a list of obstacles to a long-term relationship, and it seems insurmountable.  There's always something, and when I see that brick wall, it feels like I am just managing for the short term rather than change for the long term.

I remember a few weeks ago when my fiancé was dysregulated and listing her grievances against me, she mentioned how I never do anything nice for her.  Certainly a valid complaint - most of the things I do for her are basic chores/household duties.  After that, I have a little time for myself, and a little time for her.  I'm in the same position as you - that I do 99% of the housework, and I would be much more efficient on my own without having to deal wither moods while I am trying to cook or clean.  The non-chores I do for her include bringing home flowers or other small gifts every few weeks, and little gestures like getting her things when I am up, and making sure the doors are unlocked when she comes home so that she doesn't have to get out her key.  No, I am not taking her out for candlelight dinners or buying her jewelry, but I am cooking her nice dinners and lighting candles around the house

But - when she mentioned that the other week, I tried to validate, and inadvertently said something she quickly picked up on, "I understand where you are coming from, we all want other to do nice things for us... ."  She quickly interpreted that as me stating she never does anything nice for me.  But, that is true.  In the year and a half we have been together, she's bought me a total of one surprise gift of any kind (a pair of pajamas on clearance).  Like you, I read the lessons and hear her complaints and I feel like it is all on me.  And then she will complain to our T that she has take the initiative on everything    I just don't see where she is coming from on that one.  It's like I will clean, and she will claim that I am only cleaning because she complained that the house was dirty.

And you know what?  As of right now the best "gift" she could give me would be to take care of her own needs.  That would be worth much more to me than anything she could get at any store

[MissyM]

Right now, I feel dysregulated and all I want is to get a divorce and live peacefully with my kids. Reading through the lessons frustrates me because it feels like it all falls on my shoulders. I feel like I am the one that is solely responsible for not setting him off, keeping my mouth shut, and basically taking whatever it is I can get from him. And, I feel like I am supposed to not get upset and not speak my mind.

You have the right to end the marriage. It is all your choice and what you decide is healthier for you and your children.  Personally, there isn't a chance I would stay married if my dBPDh wasn't doing as much work on himself and our relationship, as I am.  It took me a long time to get to that point, 3 years of doing therapy and recovery from codependency work and he didn't fully get on board until I was very clear.   I just strongly feel it is what I deserve and what our children deserve.  I know it seems to go against the message of this board but for me staying in a relationship with a BPD that isn't heavily involved in therapy and recovery, just wouldn't be appealing.

[vortex of confusion]

Thanks for the support everyone!

I got mad while he was gone and sent him a bunch of texts saying all of the things that I can't say to him in person. I knew that he would be safe because he was with his mom and his friends. If I tried to say those things to him in person or when he was in town, all hell would break loose.

I am not sure if the break was good or bad. If he hadn't been gone, I wouldn't have seen or noticed the stark contrast between how things are when he is here versus when he is gone. Oh man, the difference was night and day.

MissyM, that is just it, he won't commit to making any kind of change. I have been asking him about why he is still on step 4 after being in the program for a year. There is always an excuse. He tells me that he is working on things but the progress is so slow that it might as well be non-existent. And, he has put me off for years when I have asked him about our relationship. I recognize that each of us has to get ourselves in order before anything can be done with regards to our relationship. However, I feel that both of us should at least be able to do basic things to maintain what little bit was left. I feel that he made no real effort to be nicer. His idea of working on things was to go to meetings and not spend as much time playing his computer games. Instead of playing games from the time he gets home until the time he goes to bed, he makes it a point to come sit on the couch with me and read.

When I told him that I felt like I was done, he suggested couples counseling. I found out that the only reason he suggested that is because he told his friends that it looks like we are heading for divorce. They told him to try couples counseling first. I was thinking what the heck is up with that. He is telling everyone that we are headed for divorce. He asked if I had been telling my family and friends that. Nope, I haven't said that to anyone. What is the point of couples counseling? Why should I go sit in a therapists office and listen to how I need to work with him and support him and try harder? I am tired.

[vortex of confusion]

And you know what?  As of right now the best "gift" she could give me would be to take care of her own needs.  That would be worth much more to me than anything she could get at any store

I know exactly what you mean here. The thing I want most is for him to take care of himself and act like a grown up.

I was telling him about the things that he has done for me over the years that meant the most to me and they were little bitty things that showed lots of thought but cost little if anything.

There was one day when there was a problem with the car. He handled it on his own without calling me. He did send me a picture of the messed up tire and went on about how proud he was of himself for taking care of the car stuff without my help or input. This is a grown man that we are talking about. It is completely absurd. Yesterday while I was at work, our A/C quit working and went on the fritz. He emails me about it so I tell him to call my dad or my brother because they know about that stuff. He is fretting and upset. We can't do anything about it until pay day. I came home to kids that were tired, hot, and hungry. I brought home food, got them to eat, and then took them for a ride in the car to cool them off. When I was emailing with him from work, I told him to take the kids for a ride so they didn't get too hot. He didn't. Heck, when I got home, I had to open more windows and turn on more fans. Then, I had to figure out how to cool the kids rooms off enough to get them to go to bed. He seemed clueless the entire time. And that sort of thing frustrates me to no end because he sets off the kids and the kids set him off and that makes me anxious and that makes it more difficult for me to navigate things and keep things together.

[meerkat1]

we tried couple counseling a while back, 10 year ago maybe. Just made it worse. Essentially the therapist separated us, told us that my wife's issues need to be addressed before we could address the relationship issues. Essentially told us her rage and anger was preventing us from having any real communication. She was depressed. She had high anxiety and etc. Very true, and very insightful from the therapist. However, this made my wife feel blamed, which she has never gotten over. Now she won't go see anyone for anything.

[vortex of confusion]

we tried couple counseling a while back, 10 year ago maybe. Just made it worse. Essentially the therapist separated us, told us that my wife's issues need to be addressed before we could address the relationship issues. Essentially told us her rage and anger was preventing us from having any real communication. She was depressed. She had high anxiety and etc. Very true, and very insightful from the therapist. However, this made my wife feel blamed, which she has never gotten over. Now she won't go see anyone for anything.

I know that my husband's addiction issues need to be addressed before we can move forward with anything in our relationship. I tried to ask him about some flirting that he was doing with some old classmates and he got mad at me and said, "I'd be happy to let you define my sobriety for me." I am not trying to define his sobriety nor am I trying to control things. I simply want to know what he is doing to work on his stuff. I want to have a real conversation with him with regards to what the plans are moving forward. Last year, he told me to give him a year. I don't feel like there have been any significant changes in the past year. He has made it to step 4 and has gone to three counseling sessions but that is it. As recently as June, he was making plans to meet another woman. In August, he got excited about me going to see another guy and wanted to be physical with me after not being interested for 6 weeks.

And when I questioned him about his activities while he was out of town, he assures me that he isn't lying to me and that he is telling me the truth. He has done that to me so many times only for me to find out that he was indeed lying. He can't validate why I might feel feelings of distrust. He harps on the fact that he is being honest THIS time. He doesn't understand why I might be hesitant to trust him when he says that he isn't flirting with women and looking to hook up. He justified the flirting that he did in email as, "I said those things because I know that she suffers from low self esteem." WHOA, he can build up an old friend from high school and flirt with her and tell her that she is more beautiful now than she was then and doesn't seem to see why I might question it? And the girl that he called a hottie he said that she was like a sister and that he had a crush on her in kindergarten and that I was being weird for even thinking such a thing.

[Indyan]

WOW, seems hot where you live

What you said about the video games... .I hate this too.

I know he tried to hide this addiction for 1,5 yr, as he knew he'd get hooked if he played again. But a few months ago, "he desperately needed to relax" and spent the ENTIRE week-end on a new game while I had to do EVERYTHING with a broken back. I was in so much pain and he helped me with NOTHING.

Me too I've had enough of being the strong one. I dream of a shoulder to cry on sometimes.

[vortex of confusion]

WOW, seems hot where you live

It is. I live in the South where our day time highs are still close to 90 and the overnight lows are in the 70's.

What you said about the video games... .I hate this too.

I know he tried to hide this addiction for 1,5 yr, as he knew he'd get hooked if he played again. But a few months ago, "he desperately needed to relax" and spent the ENTIRE week-end on a new game while I had to do EVERYTHING with a broken back. I was in so much pain and he helped me with NOTHING.

My husband has a problem with being compulsive no matter what it is. He will get fixated on something and will not let up until he gets what he wants. I know that is exactly why I have a problem telling him no. He does NOT let up. Even the kids make comments about dad's game playing. It is so frustrating. When he is with the kids, he will play his games. I am on the computer a lot but the kids see me cleaning and working around the house. And, I make an effort to talk to them and take an interest in what they are doing.

Me too I've had enough of being the strong one. I dream of a shoulder to cry on sometimes.

I have found a few people to talk to and listen to me since I have come out of isolation. For the longest time, I was isolated. I felt so crazy because everything seemed so unbelievably contradictory and confusing. How would I even begin to tell people about some of the stuff that has gone on for years?

I harbor resentments for things that my husband did early in our marriage. I have been thinking about why I still harbor resentments for those things that are ancient history. I think it is because I discounted those things as isolated incidents. Each time those things happened, I normalized and justified the isolated incident. As a one time thing, those incidents are fine. However, as the years added up, it became obvious that all of those isolated incidents added up to a pervasive pattern. So, it isn't so much the incidents themselves as it is the overall pattern of behavior that he hasn't really made any kind of major effort to change.

[maxsterling]

I harbor resentments for things that my husband did early in our marriage. I have been thinking about why I still harbor resentments for those things that are ancient history. I think it is because I discounted those things as isolated incidents. Each time those things happened, I normalized and justified the isolated incident. As a one time thing, those incidents are fine. However, as the years added up, it became obvious that all of those isolated incidents added up to a pervasive pattern. So, it isn't so much the incidents themselves as it is the overall pattern of behavior that he hasn't really made any kind of major effort to change.

This is a tough one for me, too.  I think in my case, it's that it does start to go away, then she brings it back up again.  Guaranteed the next dysregulation she will be bringing it all back up again.  It is a cumulative effect.  Even if you can let it roll off you and not let it hurt you so bad, it leaves a numb feeling that's also not fun.  So for me, I don't feel so hurt by the comments, I just feel this huge disappointment in that after a year and a half together she still resorts to the childish crap and has no respect for me.  It shows to me that no matter how good of a person I am, her complete inability for self soothing means I can be the brunt of anything at any time, leading to all kinds of "what's the point" feelings. 

[vortex of confusion]

This is a tough one for me, too.  I think in my case, it's that it does start to go away, then she brings it back up again.  Guaranteed the next dysregulation she will be bringing it all back up again.  It is a cumulative effect.  Even if you can let it roll off you and not let it hurt you so bad, it leaves a numb feeling that's also not fun.  So for me, I don't feel so hurt by the comments, I just feel this huge disappointment in that after a year and a half together she still resorts to the childish crap and has no respect for me.  It shows to me that no matter how good of a person I am, her complete inability for self soothing means I can be the brunt of anything at any time, leading to all kinds of "what's the point" feelings. 

It isn't the comments for me. It is the actions.

My husband will say everything that I want to hear but will then behave in ways that show that he is still operating under the same basic behavior patterns. Because he is continuing the pattern, I bring it up and then it feels like I am the one that keeps bringing up ancient history. If I bring up something that happened recently, he will try to tell me that he isn't doing those things now. I try to validate that but then I fall into the whole thing where I will tell him, "No, you are not doing it today but here are all of the times that you have done it before." I am not trying to beat him over the head with this stuff but am trying to get him to understand why NOT doing something for a couple of days or even a couple of weeks is not enough. He wants to be able to do things for a week or two and have me believe that he has changed and that everything is all better. I have fallen into that trap before. He will put on a good show for a while and will then get lazy and the next thing I know we are right back where we started.

He has accused me of being impatient. At one point I told him, I have been working with you for 16 years. For 16 years, there has been excuses for the grumpiness, the compulsions, the sex addiction, and not stepping up as a dad. For 16 years, it has been one excuse after another. When I was having kids and had 4 kids under 7, I didn't really pay much attention to what he was or wasn't doing. I didn't have the energy to push for anything better. He pretty much did whatever he wanted. I do think he was great when the girls were babies. I think the grumpiness has ramped up as our kids have gotten older because they are asserting themselves and challenging him (typical kid stuff) and that makes him very uncomfortable. He can't seem to handle normal kid behavior.

It was so relaxing for me and the kids to not have him around for a couple of days that it has me questioning everything. And, when I tell him how I feel, I get stuff like this, "Basically, if you think we're at the point of no return, then we are. If you're burned out, then why continue? We should just make the best of it until we are financially solvent enough to afford 2 households."

[MissyM]

My husband will say everything that I want to hear but will then behave in ways that show that he is still operating under the same basic behavior patterns.

Always go by the behavior.  I am going to tell you something that a COSA member told me a year ago, your husband isn't in recovery.  He is going to meetings but he isn't really in recovery.  It is very common for people to stop at the 4th step, that is when the s@@@ gets real.  It took a relapse for my dBPDh to get serious about recovery and for me setting really clear boundaries.  Maybe your husband will push through but without a strong sponsor and/or a good CSAT, that will take a miracle.  What are you doing for yourself?  Maybe try a COSA or S-anon meeting.  There you will find ladies that understand, support and some good referrals for therapy.  The BPD behavior is bad enough to deal with but the sex addiction is soul crushing.

[vortex of confusion]

Always go by the behavior.  I am going to tell you something that a COSA member told me a year ago, your husband isn't in recovery.  He is going to meetings but he isn't really in recovery.  It is very common for people to stop at the 4th step, that is when the s@@@ gets real.  It took a relapse for my dBPDh to get serious about recovery and for me setting really clear boundaries.  Maybe your husband will push through but without a strong sponsor and/or a good CSAT, that will take a miracle.  What are you doing for yourself?  Maybe try a COSA or S-anon meeting.  There you will find ladies that understand, support and some good referrals for therapy.  The BPD behavior is bad enough to deal with but the sex addiction is soul crushing.

I know he isn't really in recovery. He says otherwise. Tonight, we had a discussion. I snooped in his messages and saw that he was flirting with a girl from high school. He admitted that he felt something for her and that there was tension between them when he saw her at the high school reunion. He snooped in my messages and saw that I am still talking to my male friend.

Tonight was one of the most sane conversations that we have had in a long, long, long time. We both agreed that working towards a divorce is probably going to be the best solution for both of us. He isn't working fast enough for me and I am tired and exhausted and don't feel like I have much energy left to worry about our relationship. Even if he was in recovery and doing everything he is supposed to be doing, I don't know that I would want to stay with him. The more I read and process and allow myself to feel things, the more I am coming to the realization that I just don't know how I can continue this forever. Our plan is to get on better financial footing so we can split amicably and try not to interrupt the kids' lives too much. It is a relief but part of me wonders if he is going to change his mind tomorrow. Part of me wonders if he is talking like this and agreeing to part ways in the next couple of years because of the feelings he felt for his class mate. I know how he is so I am not putting much stock in anything. He is already telling people that we are heading for a divorce. I found out that he told his mom not to be surprised if we ended up divorced. I haven't said anything to anyone about any of it yet he seems to already be spreading the word. UGH! I think I need to move over to the leaving board.

[MissyM]

I think I need to move over to the leaving board.

Hope you make the right decision for you!  Think the leaving board has good info, if that is the direction you plan on going.

[vortex of confusion]

I think I need to move over to the leaving board.

Hope you make the right decision for you!  Think the leaving board has good info, if that is the direction you plan on going.

Thanks MissyM!

Today, he completely changed his story. Last night, we agreed that we should both go our separate ways and work towards financial solvency. I started telling him the steps we would need to take like both of us getting separate accounts and figuring out who is going to pay the different bills. He started telling his friends that we were going to move towards divorce.

This morning before he went to work, I was very honest and up front with him and he sat and listened to me cry and talk without getting mad or upset or saying anything mean or horrible. Usually, when I try to be that open and honest with him, get starts in with the self hatred talk and will gas light me. He admitted to being unwilling or unable to recognize how bad things have been between us. I have tried to lobby him to do basic things around the house. Until recently, I paid all of the bills, did all of the housework, arranged for house repairs (or did them myself), and kept up with all of the kids needs. Today, he called a repairman and took off work early to be there to make sure that it didn't interfere with me being able to get to work on time. And now, he is telling me that he hopes that we can turn things around.

And I am still at the brick wall because I felt a bunch of relief when we both agreed that we both deserve better than what we are getting from each other. He actually let me own my part of the things that I have done (taken too good of care, kept silent about important things, not pushed him to be more responsible). And, now, I feel like I am back at wanting to stay for the kids but not having a single clue how I am going to ride this out and maintain some sort of sanity. To go from him being resigned to divorce and being cold and almost excited about the prospect of a fresh start for both of us to him now hoping that things can bounce back between us.

He told his class mate that we were going to seek a divorce and she came back with a very short reply. I think her lack of reply is what prompted him to change his tune. My gut tells me that he was hoping to start something with his friend but it didn't quite work the way he had expected.

[MissyM]

He told his class mate that we were going to seek a divorce and she came back with a very short reply. I think her lack of reply is what prompted him to change his tune. My gut tells me that he was hoping to start something with his friend but it didn't quite work the way he had expected.

You are probably right, trust the gut.  However, he would not have lasted in that relationship either.  Sparkly and new sounds fun and then they find that their problems are still there (the wherever you go, there you are problem).

And, now, I feel like I am back at wanting to stay for the kids but not having a single clue how I am going to ride this out and maintain some sort of sanity. To go from him being resigned to divorce and being cold and almost excited about the prospect of a fresh start for both of us to him now hoping that things can bounce back between us.

I have been there many, many times.  We actually got divorced.  I just try not to react to the threats, any more.  It is very hard but I know that a divorce is probably only going to happen if I am ready for it.  He will vacillate a 1,000 times.

Today my dBPDh was very dysregulated.  He gets this way when he talks to his family.  He was giving me the excuse that he wasn't going to go to his 12 step meeting and group therapy because our daughter has a game.  I told him that didn't hold with me, it isn't really about our daughter having one game and that I am worried if he doesn't follow his recovery plan.  (He missed plenty of things for her and my son while busy acting out but I didn't tell him this).  This really set him off but I would not bite.  Now he is sulky and angry but going to his meetings.  I know that if he goes to his group, he will get some emotional support and it won't have to be me bearing the brunt of his feelings.  That is why I really wanted him to go, better someone else deal with his dysregulation.

[vortex of confusion]

You are probably right, trust the gut.  However, he would not have lasted in that relationship either.  Sparkly and new sounds fun and then they find that their problems are still there (the wherever you go, there you are problem).

In reflecting on stuff over the last year, it is quite interesting to note that when he and I were both posting ads and comparing notes, he could not get anybody to talk to him for any length of time unless he lied to them or all they wanted was something physical. He would get so jealous and so mad that I had people to talk to that I could have real conversations with. In hindsight, I suspect that most of them were just like my husband and were simply being nice because they wanted to get something from me. When they saw that I wasn't going to go there, they would quit talking to me. But, it did show me that I am not that crazy and it helped me stop being so isolated. I shouldn't have gotten involved in my husband's craziness because I was pretty much feeding his addiction. I had become so isolated that my entire perspective was completely skewed and completely thrown off. I don't know how anybody could normalize the things that I normalized.

I have been there many, many times.  We actually got divorced.  I just try not to react to the threats, any more.  It is very hard but I know that a divorce is probably only going to happen if I am ready for it.  He will vacillate a 1,000 times.

I feel like I am ready for it on an emotional level, I just don't know if I can do it while my kids are so young. They love and hate their dad all at the same time. Really, I think they want him to stay because they keep holding out hopes that maybe some day he will act like a dad is supposed to act.

Today my dBPDh was very dysregulated.  He gets this way when he talks to his family.  He was giving me the excuse that he wasn't going to go to his 12 step meeting and group therapy because our daughter has a game.  I told him that didn't hold with me, it isn't really about our daughter having one game and that I am worried if he doesn't follow his recovery plan.  (He missed plenty of things for her and my son while busy acting out but I didn't tell him this).  This really set him off but I would not bite.  Now he is sulky and angry but going to his meetings.  I know that if he goes to his group, he will get some emotional support and it won't have to be me bearing the brunt of his feelings.  That is why I really wanted him to go, better someone else deal with his dysregulation.

I never know whether or not to tell him to go to a meeting or not. I feel like he will look to me for answers. I can't tell you the number of times that he has asked me on Saturdays, ":)o you think I should go?" I have been telling him that it is up to him to make that decision. One of the things that he has done over the years is badger me to tell him what to do and make his decisions for him.

When he was upset with me over the texts that I sent him, he made some kind of remark about how I was the one that wanted him to go to the reunion in the first place. That wasn't the case at all. I sat down with him and helped him figure out the pros and cons of going. Personally, I have no interest in going to reunions so the decision was entirely up to him. Him and his mom made all of the plans and arrangements. I was left out of it almost completely yet he tried to tell me that I am the one that wanted him to go. Baffling!

[MissyM]

I never know whether or not to tell him to go to a meeting or not. I feel like he will look to me for answers. I can't tell you the number of times that he has asked me on Saturdays, ":)o you think I should go?" I have been telling him that it is up to him to make that decision. One of the things that he has done over the years is badger me to tell him what to do and make his decisions for him.

I didn't actually say that I wanted him to go to his meetings.  I said it really concerns me that he isn't following his recovery plan, the last couple of weeks.  He will not be able to go to any meetings this weekend and didn't go to but 1 last week and no group therapy last week.  He came up with his recovery plan with his therapist and it includes 2 meetings a week, 1 group therapy, 1 individual therapy and working with a sponsor.  So, I am not really telling him to go but that I am not ok with him not following his plan.  Of course to him this was coercion, for me it was saying how I felt about an agreement that has been in place.   My main reason was that he is dysregulated because of his family and I do not ant to be the person he takes it out on.  He can go there and talk it out with others, not my job.

When he was upset with me over the texts that I sent him, he made some kind of remark about how I was the one that wanted him to go to the reunion in the first place.

I hate that!  Placing all of the responsibility on the Non.

I feel like I am ready for it on an emotional level, I just don't know if I can do it while my kids are so young. They love and hate their dad all at the same time. Really, I think they want him to stay because they keep holding out hopes that maybe some day he will act like a dad is supposed to act.

It is hard to know what is best with young kids.  I feel that it is best for mine for us to stay married, as long as he is working on himself.  The kids have a therapist and she is pretty clear that when it comes to their emotional safety, I must put their welfare first.