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Skills we were never taught
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A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
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Setting Boundaries
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Author Topic: How to manage work time vs time devoted to your pwBPD?  (Read 642 times)
jcarter4856
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« on: September 29, 2014, 07:04:03 PM »

This is a big problem in my life (and for sure caused by my failure to set proper boundaries in the past): I work in a position that demands large amounts of time, and mostly focused head-down concentrating not-being-disturbed time, to really succeed. I've been in the business for more than 30 years and for the first 15 or so I worked 16+h/day and built up my experience and skills to the point where I was at the top of the game (worked in Silicon Valley during the .com boom, with various people you'll see today on CNBC and in the tech press). When successful someone like me can make quite large amounts of money, but it takes work. Technology keeps changing so you have to constantly put in time to keep on top of your game. Not like say a lawyer where you can go all ":)enny Crane" after a point and rely on pure instinct.

So ok, pBPDw of 15+ years has always used FOG tactics with the result that I spend less time at my desk than I should. This has expanded over the years to include the nature of my job (I now run my own company) such that I won't actually get fired if I put in fewer hours than I should. My work situation has also evolved to be compatible with her desire to go on vacation 8+ times / year (vacations are basically her soothing mechanism / crack pipe).

But ultimately this puts me into a double-bind: I need to work more hours to make enough money to pay for all the vacations and other expenditures dw incurs. However the more time I spend at work the more pissed off she gets. Eventually this explodes, as happened recently. This time the explosion was on the side of me not working enough (unusual -- typically it is the other way).

Here's the thing, the FOG over the years has led me to only get around 5h/day of potential desk-time. From that you'd need to subtract time needed for various run of the mill life activities (getting haircut, grocery shopping, whatever), and all the vacation time. Plus any big event in our life tends to demand me take multiple days off work beforehand and often after (e.g. if we throw a party at our house that means I take two days off work to help prepare). This all started when our kids were very young: I noticed pretty quickly that dw would head off the rails unless I was in the house tending to the kids by 5pm. So I took up working at night which fit in with baby care (you can write code pretty nicely with a baby being bottle-fed on your lap, I found). Then as the kids became older things actually got worse because a) they don't go to sleep until around the same time I do and b) she can't deal with their school homework so now I need to be in the house by 4pm to help out with that.

Ultimately I believe I am doing rather well such that we have a household income that is more than 6x the national median yet I only work 4h/day and take 8 weeks or more off for vacation every year.

However, dw berates me about how we have to live in poverty due to my malingering ways. I'm incompetent to run a business (possibly true, but the whole business thing was done to fit in with her needs). Of course she exhibits absolutely no insight or empathy into my situation. It is completely lost on her that at the end of every day she spends a few hours on the bed watching TV while I am usually doing some sort of household or work activity until I fall asleep.

Looking at the situation objectively I can see that I absolutely need to spend more time working. I'm just not sure how to impose that boundary and maintain it. One idea I had was to have the kids come to my office to do their homework. This has worked pretty well because a) there is much less emotion and yelling at homework time, b) it is much shorter due to (a) and c) I can get some simple work tasks done and extend my work day a little at the same time.

I've considered getting up earlier to do work but as it is I am awake before 6am and have found that it takes me most of the time between then and when I need to take the kids to school doing various household chores (empty dishwasher, make kids breakfast etc).

Looking for ideas from members who have been down this path.

Thanks.



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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 09:52:15 PM »

My ex-uBPDw cost me multiple jobs over the years with her constant sense of need, endless phone calls, accusations of me having affairs with every female I worked with and even calls to my bosses.  In spite of her I continued to advance in my career, however no matter how much I made, it was never enough.  After 18 months of therapy I finally came out of the FOG last December and decided that I could not / would not live one more day like that.  Today I live in a much smaller house, and am paying off the debts she saddled us with over the years, but I am in 100% control of my life and my paycheck.

To quote my therapist, mental health costs money but freedom is priceless!

Please, please find a counselor for yourself.  Not a marital counselor, a therapist who will help you work on you.  Yes I know this cuts even more into the time that you are struggling to find enough of already.  But if not for yourself, think of the example you are currently setting for your kids - do you really want them to have a relationship that resembles what you have?

The way your post is written reminds me of myself a few years ago.  Not only was I the primary breadwinner, I cooked for the kids, did their laundry, took them to activities, etc.  The only thing this succeeded in doing was making my health worse and allowing the uBPDw to pursue even more of solo activities.
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jcarter4856
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 10:12:17 PM »

The way your post is written reminds me of myself a few years ago.  Not only was I the primary breadwinner, I cooked for the kids, did their laundry, took them to activities, etc.  The only thing this succeeded in doing was making my health worse and allowing the uBPDw to pursue even more of solo activities.

Thank you, your response was most helpful. I was beginning to feel that I was just whining!

For now I do not see a viable option to get a therapist/councilor for myself due to the cost and my inability to perform financial transactions that are not visible to her. Perhaps in time I can figure that out.

In the meantime I'm here and doing some additional reading. I have begun to set some boundaries regarding money and our financial plans. I keep trying to employ "WWRPD" (What Would a Regular Person Do?) whenever I find myself about to do something driven by her FOG. This has proven fairly effective in breaking the double-binds.

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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2014, 03:18:35 AM »

I'm in the same field as you. I'm plagued by a guilty conscience when at work, hampering much of what I could do. It started when our first kid was born, I felt terrible going to work when she was (seemingly) struggling at home, and I never knew what mood she'd be in when I got home. I often needed to leave work at 3 p.m. because I couldn't stand it anymore. She demanded that the house be spotless. When the tables turned and I was home with the kids, she'd be in a foul mood because she needed to work (and guess who had to do all the tidying up then).

FOG has kept me trying to do as much as I possibly can to relieve her. Coming in late for work after doing household chores in the morning and then leaving the kids at school. Leaving work fairly early to make dinner and take the kids to activities. I often feel that there would in total be much less household work for me, had we separated and had the kids every other week. And I would have been able to focus a lot more on work, I think. Also, the time I spend alone with the kids is of better quality than when my wife is around.

Researching how to deal with this also has taken a lot of work time, I'm sorry to say.

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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2014, 07:32:18 AM »

The problem is that it is a disability she has, so you are playing the role of carer to one degree or another. Hence you have two jobs, both demanding. Which is the more important to you?

Do you want the RS to be the best it can be, or is it more important to be as "successful" as possible at work? To attempt both is probably to compromise both.

Which is more important? It is unlikely you can have the best of both

Which will give you the most enjoyable life?

Do you have time to just be you, relax, neither the RS nor work?

Her judgement of whether you are a good provider or not makes no difference, that is just a standard of neediness that has been set
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2014, 10:42:00 AM »

 

Waverider is right about making choices.

I was similar.  I was a Naval Officer with a successful side business of real estate. 

Things started getting weird with the r/s as accusations started to fly about money I was hiding... .what I was doing with tenants in various houses... .(very creative imagination she had... )

I am very lucky to be in a position financially that likelihood of a "personal" crisis (no food... .no house... .that kind of thing)... .is very remote.

So... .my financial problems are simply business problems... .easier to give up for the sake of a r/s.

One... .I need to spend more time on r/s... .so less time for business... .and there are less things to argue about... .or be accused of.

Most of our talk in MC today was about finances... .she grabbed control a while back and now is grumpy about all the work... .yet doesn't want to hand control back
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jcarter4856
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 11:40:01 AM »

Most of our talk in MC today was about finances... .she grabbed control a while back and now is grumpy about all the work... .yet doesn't want to hand control back

Same situation here unfortunately. She took over the running of both our personal and business finances. Then began to complain that it was a terrible strain and she "needed help" from me. Each time I sat down with her and asked where the problem was, it turned out the only problem we had was spending too much! (you can guess who drives most of the spending). So the only real help I can provide is to say "spend less already". Needless to say that wasn't perceived as helping. Any attempt to impose budgets, long-term plans, discussion as to whether to spend money on A OR B (rather than A AND B AND C... .) was met with various push back tactics.

After the latest blow up I have come to realize that I need to maintain some control and understanding of the finances because the information I was being given was in most cases entirely inaccurate. Essentially due to FOG tactics I had enabled the entire process.

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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 01:40:56 PM »

 

Almost exactly what is happening here.

Luckily money is a self limiting thing... .if she feels she should be able to buy something in the checkout line... .but doesn't have the funds... .the has bumped the limit.

I'm seeing my job as staying out of the middle of it.

As long as I can make sure that family needs are truely met.

My version of need and hers are totally different... .
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LilHurt420
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 02:16:32 PM »

I can relate.  Thankfully my job is salary so no matter how many hours I put in I still get paid the same amount.  Though my quality of work has definitely gone down in the last few years.  It's either because of coming in late after having to deal with uBPDh's breakdown in the morning, having him call my work phone over and over and arguing with him throughout the day, having to leave early to soothe whatever situation he has going on at that time, taking days off to make up for the damage he's done, and not being able to focus 100% on my job because I'm researching what's wrong with him or just feeling depressed from the things he's done to me.  It never ends.  Even when things are calm my mind is still going constantly about everything and it's hard for me to concentrate on my work (which requires attention to small details).

So far I've been able to "hide" it and still make it by (my manager happens to love me), but I know that the quality of my work has definitely gone downhill and I've lost my "spark" for my job.
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2014, 04:04:53 AM »

Most of our talk in MC today was about finances... .she grabbed control a while back and now is grumpy about all the work... .yet doesn't want to hand control back

Same situation here unfortunately. She took over the running of both our personal and business finances. Then began to complain that it was a terrible strain and she "needed help" from me. Each time I sat down with her and asked where the problem was, it turned out the only problem we had was spending too much! (you can guess who drives most of the spending). So the only real help I can provide is to say "spend less already". Needless to say that wasn't perceived as helping. Any attempt to impose budgets, long-term plans, discussion as to whether to spend money on A OR B (rather than A AND B AND C... .) was met with various push back tactics.

After the latest blow up I have come to realize that I need to maintain some control and understanding of the finances because the information I was being given was in most cases entirely inaccurate. Essentially due to FOG tactics I had enabled the entire process.

Weird how similar it can be. A few years back my wife had total control of our personal finances as well as a joint business. I've managed to take back some of that control over the years, but it's still a very difficult topic to discuss.

What's been working for me is to make payments of certain household bills by electronic invoice - that way she won't even see the envelope for things like electricity (since they are in my name). We no longer have a joint business, nor will I ever start one with her again (she's made some suggestions lately).

And she does most of the spending!

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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2014, 08:18:20 AM »

  We no longer have a joint business, nor will I ever start one with her again (she's made some suggestions lately).

Exactly!  Unfortunately business issues have become one more place for us to argue... .or for me to be accused... .etc etc
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2014, 10:23:09 AM »

jcarter: Sounds like a difficult situation.  While I do not own my own business, I can definitely relate in that my uBPDw has negatively affected my work quantity and quality over the years.

I noticed you indicated therapy for you is not an option since your wife would know about it.  Is there a reason you would need to keep it a secret that you were starting therapy?
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jcarter4856
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 11:10:04 AM »

I noticed you indicated therapy for you is not an option since your wife would know about it.  Is there a reason you would need to keep it a secret that you were starting therapy?

The reason is to do with the cost. I can't use "shared" money to pay for therapy, and honestly I'm not sure I can justify the cost to myself. If I had a secret stash of my own money that she didn't know about then I'd consider using that for therapy for myself. Mind you, if I had said stash of thousands, if I just gave it to her it would likely improve things more than therapy Smiling (click to insert in post)

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jcarter4856
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2014, 11:14:17 AM »

I noticed you indicated therapy for you is not an option since your wife would know about it.  Is there a reason you would need to keep it a secret that you were starting therapy?

The reason is to do with the cost. I can't use "shared" money to pay for therapy, and honestly I'm not sure I can justify the cost to myself. If I had a secret stash of my own money that she didn't know about then I'd consider using that for therapy for myself. Mind you, if I had said stash of thousands, if I just gave it to her it would likely improve things more than therapy Smiling (click to insert in post)

Should also say that I did go to a therapist one time and she knows about that. Based on my experience with that one therapy session I concluded that the chances of finding a useful therapist were quite low, and the cost very high (and you have to pay just to discover that they're not helpful). So to me therapy seems like it is only useful for either a) extremely wealthy people or b) people in real danger of hurting others or themselves (hence the state will pay for the therapy in order to improve public safety). The notion that if the "non" gets into therapy, the pwBPD will follow I think is flawed in that there is a very high chance of "therapist capture" by the pwBPD. If that happens the outcome is worse than if there were no therapist!

Reading books and using sites like this to me appear a much better value proposition.



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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2014, 02:31:40 PM »

 

Taking on the task in front of you without your own therapist... .is not a good plan.

You need someone to help you get stronger... .figure out your own stuff... .that will help the r/s.

Need someone separate to help with the r/s... .like a MC.

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jcarter4856
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2014, 03:24:02 PM »

Taking on the task in front of you without your own therapist... .is not a good plan.

You need someone to help you get stronger... .figure out your own stuff... .that will help the r/s.

Need someone separate to help with the r/s... .like a MC.

How do you guys pay for that service? Seriously -- I could buy a second home or a very large boat with the same money!
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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2014, 03:31:54 PM »

 

Insurance... .copays... .all sorts of ways.

I'm curious... .how much are they quoting you?
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jcarter4856
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2014, 04:10:22 PM »

Insurance... .copays... .all sorts of ways.

I'm curious... .how much are they quoting you?

We have (very expensive) insurance but it didn't work for therapy. They require a clinical diagnosis (Therapist indicated she might be willing to invent one to satisfy them, but I don't want a made-up clinical diagnosis on my medical record), and they require a two-month plan to meet explicit goals to resolve whatever problem you have been diagnosed with.

Therapy sessions (1h) are $150 around here (not with a real PhD mind you).

Good to hear that some of you have insurance that works.

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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2014, 04:15:25 PM »

Insurance... .copays... .all sorts of ways.

I'm curious... .how much are they quoting you?

We have (very expensive) insurance but it didn't work for therapy. They require a clinical diagnosis (Therapist indicated she might be willing to invent one to satisfy them, but I don't want a made-up clinical diagnosis on my medical record), and they require a two-month plan to meet explicit goals to resolve whatever problem you have been diagnosed with.

Therapy sessions (1h) are $150 around here (not with a real PhD mind you).

Good to hear that some of you have insurance that works.

I would encourage you to go to PhD type and get a full eval... .to see if there is a diagnosis... .

Usually... .if they just need time they will use "adjustment disorder"

Look it up... .very catch all thing.

You can have "adjustment disorder" ... .because you are having trouble dealing with your wifes BPD traits...

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« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2014, 05:30:55 PM »

One small step at a time.

Reading books and using sites like this to me appear a much better value proposition.

This is a good place to start and you will get as much out of it as you put in. Even if you do use therapy you will get more out of it if you have used resources like this to start the untangling.

The idea is not to use therapy and the like so they will follow your example. It is to make your side of the fence less stressful. That can create an environment that makes it possible for your partner to start untangling their part, but that is no guarantee.



Mind you, if I had said stash of thousands, if I just gave it to her it would likely improve things more than therapy Smiling (click to insert in post)

Unlikely, you would just raise the neediness benchmark
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« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2014, 08:09:40 PM »

Unlikely, you would just raise the neediness benchmark

Exactly what I was thinking... .
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« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2014, 02:36:44 AM »

Regarding work hours and self-employment. I had a regular employment that worked OK for me up until we had kids. Like you @jcarter I then found that I no longer could work full time, as my wife was struggling at home.

My solution was to start my own company hoping to work fewer hours as a consultant. I also felt a very strong need for freedom. It worked OK when the kids were small. It's always been easier for me to get along with my wife if there is a clear problem at hand that needs to be addressed.

Now when the kids are older (and have less sick days) it's not so clear that this employment situation is the best for me anymore. I don't feel any of the freedom anyway as I can't so easily work from home - my wife is home a lot and I get the impression she wants to discuss our failing marriage at any time we're alone together. Not too easy to relax with that hanging over me. I'm actually trying to spend more time at work now to avoid just that. But it's taking its toll, I need alone time to recharge.

I'm considering going back to a regular employment as I'm not sure the cost-benefit is in my favor anymore.

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« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2014, 05:07:00 AM »

I'm considering going back to a regular employment as I'm not sure the cost-benefit is in my favor anymore.

Not to mention the mental benefit.
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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2014, 05:41:37 AM »

I'm considering going back to a regular employment as I'm not sure the cost-benefit is in my favor anymore.

Not to mention the mental benefit.

Yes, actually when all is weighted together life would be easier right now by a regular employment. But it's hard to let go of that dream, and the freedom of not feeling pressured to work more hours (at least not by a boss). I guess I need to feel free is some area of life - but the thought itself might be an indicator that I've managed to break out of some codependency in the relationship, and feel slightly more free there.
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« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2014, 06:08:14 AM »

It can also be hard to work under someones eagle eye once you have had it all your own way for a while.

I could not ever do it again.

Is there a middle place? But I guess that would be hard to explain.
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« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2014, 06:15:09 AM »

It can also be hard to work under someones eagle eye once you have had it all your own way for a while.

I could not ever do it again.

My current assignment is starting to feel more and more like an employment... .and I could make it into an employment today if I wanted to. But I sure would feel more "trapped" by doing so. The other alternative is to find some other place, but that would surely mean more hours.

Is there a middle place? But I guess that would be hard to explain.

Could be... .have some ideas for products I could do on the side, while having the employment. But do I have the time or energy? Not sure.
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« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2014, 08:46:30 PM »

I'm considering going back to a regular employment as I'm not sure the cost-benefit is in my favor anymore.

Very similar situation for sure. Nice to hear from others in the same "boat".

In my case for the past 10+ years being self-employed/business owner I constantly dreamed of going back to being a regular employee. However since I somehow managed to make 2x as much money being self employed, that really wasn't a realistic option. Eventually I came to realize that pursuing entrepreneurship was in reality uBPDw's "dream", in that it produced the kind of risky chaos in our lives that she needs. Me being a boring employee would not satisfy either financially nor in terms of excitement and risk. Meanwhile of course what she told me was how much I sucked in business. I literally had to dig out our tax filings every year and look at the total to convince myself that I did not in fact suck! Having come to terms that I had built a business essentially driven by BPD, to be honest I have come to like the idea on its own merits. It made a huge difference to get the picture straight regarding how I got there though and I have to filter out at least 80% of what she says to me about my business and work activities. Inner Validation -- that's the thing! Not going to get any of that from your pwBPD Smiling (click to insert in post)



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