Am I taking on traits of BPD?

[Ceruleanblue]

I'm feeling really down tonight. I'm beginning to feel like I'm taking on some BPD type traits, just because I've been around it so much, and because I'm so tired and worn down. I'm doing better than I was a while back, but I've lost patience in dealing with it. I've re-established my boundaries, and I'm way less willing to overlook all the crap and verbal abuse. This of course creates it's own set of problems.

Tonight, uBPDh came home, and he started right off by pointing out something my teen son had done. Not a big deal, but I took offense because uBPDh has four grown kids, three of whom hate me, and he has allowed tons of crap in regards to this. I'm sick of the double standards, and I'm sick of him sniping at my kid. I let him vent to me about my kid, heck I do that myself, but there is just always a negative, mean outlook coming from uBPDh.

So, as my therapist suggested, when uBPDh is dysregulating, I basically got into doing my own thing, which happened to be watching something online. uBPDh got upset because I wouldn't engage, and he stormed off(we'd agreed if he needed cool down time, he'd at least tell me he's leaving) without telling me. Then when I tried to call him, to see what was up, he ignored my calls(just last week he promised to at least answer), and I just got upset and packed him car up. Now, this is all very unlike me. I don't do "breaks" in marriage, I don't believe in them, but nearly two months ago, I actually did give him the break he was always threatening(along with him giving me divorce threats).

I don't think I'm doing it to scare him, or play games with him(he says this), like he did to me for three years. I just think I'm worn out, and looking at the years ahead of living with his condition. I think he waited so long to get help, and by that time I'd done so much negotiating, cheer leading, and fighting for our marriage, that NOW, I feel worn out. And if when he'd come home, seen his car packed up, if he'd apologized, taken any responsibility, or tried to have a rationale conversation, that would have been great. He promised if I let him in to get a couple things, he wouldn't be mean. He was, of course. He even asked me for the debit card, and told me he'd cancel me off.

He left, but I ended up calling him. I unloaded, and told him that I fought for our marriage for so long, and even took him back after our separation, when I wasn't really ready for him to be back, and yet he always just so easily walks or drives away. He did this with his ex for 24 years! I told him early into our dating, that I thought that was crappy, and that done means done for me. Now look, here we are!

Plus, I knew he'd been lying to me about stuff. He asked repeatedly to come home, and I relented. I want our marriage to work, but part of me just wants to be done. I am so sick of the drama, anger, blame, and disrespectful ways he treats me. And when he came home I kept asking him about the thing I had the gut feeling he had been lying about. Yep, he finally admitted after continuing to lie for 20 minutes, that he'd lied to me. He never stops lying. His likely BPD(or some other PD) daughter, had a baby well over a week ago, and I knew something was up, because uBPDh hasn't seen the baby. His three grown girls all hate me, and all are likely BPD. Come to find out, she said she doesn't want me holding the baby, or really being around the baby. Her sisters each have pulled this same crap, so I don't know why uBPDh is surprised by this. Yeah, we thought things were going "okay" with this girl, but this is typical of them: you think everything is fine, and then they make crap up.

It's all just soo much to deal with. uBPDh has let his kids create huge trouble in our marriage, they exclude me for no reason, uBPDh is recently on medication and his anger has gotten some better, but I'm just tired of it all. With his issues, and his kids driving a wedge, I just don't know. uBPDh lacks any empathy for me. He does think his daughter doing this is wrong, but he can't relate to why I don't like his daughters. Zero empathy.

How do I stop wanting to throw his crap in the car? I feel like I'm making false threats, but I really do mean them when I do them. I'm still not so sure I'm happy he came back. I want our marriage, but this price is so high. His moods, his anger, his projection, his blame, his lying, his secrecy... .it's all so much. He can be so cruel to me, and I wonder why I'm staying.

I don't want to become like him, but I feel I've reached the end of my rope. I took him back with conditions, but he's barely meeting them. He keeps reverting, and having episodes. I expected some, of course, but not this many. I expected him to be more apologetic when he hurts me, more attuned, more "normal". It still feels like he wants to be here with me, but totally on HIS terms still.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ceruleanblue]

I did tell him that I carried this relationship for so long. That I was the cheerleader, and had faith in us, and in HIM. I waited for him to get help, in fact I thought he might never get help, and I'm proud that he did. That alone though didn't give ME more strength or reserves to keep putting up with all this.

I feel like a marathon runner who gave their all, ran flat out, and just collapses. Therapy is helping me see how unfair so much of this has been, and that I've put up with way too much. I know I have to expect set backs, but the set backs are just so ugly still. I get fed up now very quickly. I call him out of his abuse. He still tells me to shut up, or "know when to shut your mouth". See why I get so upset? He's totally disrespectful, and hateful. I'd never treat him that way!

I told him that HE is going to have to be the one carrying this marriage for a while. HE blew it up, HE did damage, and I gave all I had to give, and I need to regroup. Is that wrong of me? Is there any chance he can step up?

[Rockylove]

I told him that HE is going to have to be the one carrying this marriage for a while. HE blew it up, HE did damage, and I gave all I had to give, and I need to regroup. Is that wrong of me? Is there any chance he can step up?

I'm sorry it's been so rough for you... .living with BPD isn't easy~~EVER! 

I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but I wonder if he blew up because he doesn't know what you mean by "... .be the one carrying this marriage... ."  What exactly does that mean to you?  What is it that you expect him to do to carry the marriage?  What was his response?  I know you said he blew up, but what did he say?

I know the feeling of being disrespected and being told to shut up.  My husband wants to spew his garbage at me and I'm supposed to listen to it and not respond.  Ultimately, he wants to be heard and understood.  I usually let him rant without retort as long as he's not cussing me out.  It also helps if I show empathy for whatever it is he's raging over and this helps dissipate his anger.  His rages are NEVER about what he's spewing at the moment~~it's always something deeper. 

Most recently, we had friends spend the weekend and we were all having a good time.  They were planning their wedding and at first it was going to be a simple ceremony in our yard with me as their officiate.  As the conversation went on, I could tell that the bride-to-be was wanting more.  Our house is still undergoing renovations and we wouldn't be done in time for a big whoopty-do and I told them that.  My husband didn't say a word.  While I was at work that Monday, he was blowing my phone up about how the "bride" was (insert every nasty word you can think of) because she stole his ($1.59 Bic) lighter!  Of course it wasn't about the lighter~~it was about him not being able to get the house ready in time, but he wouldn't say that.  I canceled the plans with our friends and everything was fine.

Life isn't perfect all the time, mind you, but being empathetic helps ME more than I could ever imagine!  I don't take it as personally and my self esteem is still in tact when he calms down. 

Wishing you better days ahead!

[sweetheart]

Hello Ceruleanblue,

I'm sorry your having such a hard time. What I'm going to say may seem like I'm giving you a hard time too, it's just that you are giving your husband mixed messages, which in BPD world creates even more chaos for you and will give your husband permission to carry on with his behaviour.

Think about setting boundaries with a child around naughty behaviour, we do 3 strikes and then there is a consequence, no TV, no playing out after school, or whatever. If we get to the third strike which is rare and my s6 has a tantrum and I say ok we'll go to a fourth strike. The next time his behaviour would escalate and so on. ultimately what a pwBPD really needs is someone who is consistent. So if you're gonna pack up his car and ask him to leave make sure you really really want to follow through with this, because if you can't, change your boundary.

I know how tough living with someone who is negative and in your face all the time can be, it's exhausting, really exhausting. It's hard to not just give up and enter the rant with them, you did so great with watching your TV programme, maybe next time just kindly excuse yourself and go watch it in another room.

I can hear how important your marriage is to you, and if you are going to survive this, being consistent with your behaviour is key. I realise I won't have written anything youre not already aware of, but sometimes in the midst of their chaos all our resilience just leaves us and we are just fire-fighting.

And Ceruleanblue of course you're not taking on traits of BPD 

( look up intermittent reinforcement )

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, I get that I do need to be consistent. The time I told him he could have his "break", I meant it, and I meant it last night too. The only thing that change was that I called him, last time I didn't. I've never wanted to have to take a break, but I just get pushed past my breaking point.

When I say I carried the marriage, I'm sure uBPDh knows what I mean by this. I explained it to him, and he does seem to understand. I was the one putting up, cheerleading, letting my boundaries get knocked down to suit his desires, it was all me molding myself to suit him and not set off his crazy behaviors. I'm still learning, and reading, and I'm still trying not to make him worse, but I can't have zero boundaries, and he's still fighting for that.

When I told him he is going to have to "carry the marriage" for a bit, I explained that to him too. I'm not the most stable right now, but I'm getting stronger pretty fast due to therapy. It's funny but therapy is confirming so much of what I already knew, but had started to question. I've been really straightforward with uBPDh, and told him exactly what I expect. I can't do it all anymore, and I can't keep being blamed, and I can't keep being his verbal punching bag. By "carry the marriage" it means doing HIS part to get better, and allowing me to have feelings. Stop arguing and fighting with me about MY feelings. I've accepted him for who and what he is, he needs to do the same for me.

He's trying, I see that, but he keeps slipping into wanting me to be as accommodating as I used to be: Which was actually ENABLING him to continue to get worse. I'm fine with forward progress, it's just his slips ups are huge.

I just waited too long I think. I should have stood up for myself when I had more patience and tolerance for his moods, and acting out. Now I just feel like a raw nerve.

I think I am pretty consistent at this point, which is why I think we battle. He wants things to be back to how I was, where he could treat me any way he wanted.  :'(

[Ceruleanblue]

Oh, and what started all this last night was that I was following my therapists advice: ignore his attitude, and do my own thing(one of the posters above nicely suggested that too). Well, uBPDh took exception to that, and left without telling me. We'd just had a conversation about him at least always answering his phone, and he didn't pick up when I called to see where he was. I'm fine with him going to cool off, but I'd like the common courtesy of him at least telling me. He ignored my phone call. No agreement we ever reach gets honored. At least it seems that way. His anger overrides anything he can agree to when "sane".

He swears he just didn't feel his phone vibrate. Why would I believe him? He lies constantly, and he's very passive aggressive. He's done so much damage in so many areas, that I feel I'm living in a fog. I know what FOG stands for, and how apt is that?

So taking the therapists advice, while sound, didn't work great for me last night. I think it's because uBPDh always tries to suck me in, or hurt me, when one way isn't working. How much can we just ignore? The more I ignore, the more outrageous he seems to get. I distanced when he was mad, so he "got even" by breaking our agreement, and punished me with no contact. It's all just so petty and meanspirited. I'm just so sick of what feels like games he is playing with me... .

That's just it! I feel like I'm married to a 6 or 7 year old emotionally.

[MaybeSo]

Sounds like you both took space.

That's the way it works.

the alternative is staying and fighting. what's the point?

maybe he didn't notice the phone vibrating, maybe he chose not to answer... possibly exercising his own right to peace or a short break as a boundary... .

I have had to learn to sooth myself through these kinds of events. my pwBPD is not really the best person to assist me with my emotional states... .he barely has a handle on his own.

I don't like it but thems the cold hard facts... .

[Rapt Reader]

Oh, and what started all this last night was that I was following my therapists advice: ignore his attitude, and do my own thing(one of the posters above nicely suggested that too). Well, uBPDh took exception to that, and left without telling me.

I can sincerely tell you that ignoring my Husband (and even my BPD son) when dysregulated, would never help the situation. My son (who is in several Therapies and now in the recovery process) has explained to me that if I don't at least listen to his complaints or feelings, and give at least facial expressions that show I hear him and understand his distress, then he feels invalidated and that infuriates him more. I'm sure my Husband feels the same way, though he isn't in Therapy and is not as articulate 

My son told me this during one of his few dysregulations right after getting out of the Dual Diagnosis Center where he got his BPD diagnosis, and I've remembered it ever since, applying this knowledge to him and my Husband. I can tell you that just being quietly empathetic (when I can't figure out what to say) with my facial expressions and body language has derailed many escalating situations with both of them.

[MaybeSo]

I can sincerely tell you that ignoring my Husband (and even my BPD son) when dysregulated, would never help the situation.

A validating response, if you can provide it, can be very calming and can increase likelihood of de-escalation. That can include showing curiosity, making noises or giving signals that you are listening and interested, etc.

However, if it’s gone too far and either person is already too dysregulated…space needs to be taken, eg.,   Distance is usually taken with the caveat that a problem can be addressed later when things calm down. 

Ignoring as in showing or expressing disdain or being dismissive of your partner, would generally heighten anyones negative affect.  That includes eye rolls, flippant gestures, giving ’the hand’ , pretending you don’t hear them…

and what started all this last night was that I was following my therapists advice: ignore his attitude, and do my own thing(one of the posters above nicely suggested that too). Well, uBPDh took exception to that, and left without telling me.

Not everything we do or try is going to work like magic or in the way we imagine it might.  If it diverted a huge fight, that’s a success. This is a person who you feared might again get physical with you because his anger is so out of control at times.  His leaving temporarily until things cool down is not necessarily a bad thing.

Not knowing exactly what was said by your therapist…or what her intention was in her communication... it sounds like she was advising you to ignore or not take-in or absorb your husbands negative attitude…as in…. you don’t have to absorb his negativity and become reactive to it …you can work on keeping your own balance and stay your own course…even if that means you need some space to calm down.  The more you can do that…the more you have a chance at staying calm and validating him if possible.

Either of you taking distance when you need it is a good thing.  It tends to work best when we feel assured that the person is leaving for a while but is coming back.  I’m sure it was triggering to have him just exit without telling you. That would bother most people. So we recover and when things are calm again…we do our best to lay out some ground rules. 

All of this takes a long time; people take a really long time to change their patterns even a little bit.