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Author Topic: is it worth setting a boundary for this?  (Read 406 times)
highroadstepmom

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« on: October 01, 2014, 05:35:07 PM »

Hi Again,

I appreciate the support on this board.

uBPD biomom signed up one of the two kids for an activity that takes place two days a week. One of the activity days is during my fiancé's custodial time.  He was fine with the activity - neutral. Then, he learned that biomom is coaching. Cool. If that's what she wants. Whatevs. All happened according to custody order. No biggie.

The second child is not participating in the activity.  He has to tag along on mom's custodial day, and on dad's custodial day to practice or game.

My fiancé started bringing a football to toss around with the second child while bio mom and first child practice. Of course, if it's a game, my fiancé watches but still tossed the football around with child two when child one wasn't actively playing, halftime, etc.

He was informed by uBPD biomom that tossing the football around with child 2 was disrespectful to child one.

Child 2, bored, wants to toss a football. "Mommy wants us to be sure to watch" my fiancé said - kindly, supportively. Fine. Okay.

the following week (I was there for this) uBPD biomom proceeded to give child 2 her coach's whistle and kept child 2 either (not playing sport) on field near her or across the field from us almost the whole game. She told him that he's coaching too. She neither greets nor speaks to us, though that's preferred to the emotional outbursts.

This week - on the day of practice that happens on my fiancé's custodial time, uBPD bio mom has shown up to practice with a referee uniform for child 2. 

Frankly, I find this weird. Regardless, I also feel like she's pushing boundaries by a) telling my fiancé what he can and can't do during his custodial time; b) keeping child 2 near her at all times during this activity even during my fiancé's custodial days (not even giving the child a choice to drift back and forth between the 2 parents) and now c) doing even more to ensure that my fiancé can't have that hour by buying a referee uniform.

Yes, it is just an hour.

My question - after a long intro - is there a way he can communicate to her via SET to create a boundary and say something like:

I appreciate that you have made the effort to keep child 2 busy and interested during child 1's activity. Because you are coaching and occupied during both practice and game times with the entire team, during my custodial days, child 2 and I plan to toss the football around, take a walk on the track, and have some special one on one time. I am also happy to keep child 2 occupied during the practice/game that happens during your custodial time, but that's your decision on your custodial day. Of course, we will watch child 1 while child 1 is on the field during games.

Or... .is it a harmless hour and we should just let her be her possessive self?

I work far away and it's almost impossible for me to get to a game more than once or twice during a season. I think this is a manifestation of a BPDs fear of abandonment - if child 2 hangs with us child 2 can't possibly love her too. And, since fiancé is all black to her, i'm sure she believes he is completely inept at/doesn't care about occupying a child for an hour.

Advice? Language? Leave it? Don't give an inch lest a chasm open?

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livednlearned
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 05:48:16 PM »

Hi highroadstepmom,

How old are the kids? It seems like this could be a good opportunity to validate how the kids feel about the situation, and see if they have a solution. Maybe have your fiance sit down with the kids and ask them how they feel. "Child 1, when you are playing a game and child 2 is there, how do you feel?" Then ask child 2 how he feels. If Child 1 is feeling hurt that no one is paying attention, ask if there is a compromise. Child 2 and you can throw the ball when child 2 isn't playing. Or you can throw the ball for 5 minutes, then watch, then throw the ball another 5 minutes. Then have child 2 talk about how he feels, what he wants to do.

That's the best way to set aside biomom's agenda while also giving the kids as many opportunities as possible to say how they feel. If your fiance sends the email, she will just impose her own narrative on the kids, and they'll either believe it or feel confused. If they know how they feel, and dad helped come up with a respectful plan that includes them, they'll trust him because he cares about how they feel.
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highroadstepmom

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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 06:15:44 PM »

Thank you. We will try that. The children are young grade-school age. They are terrific but we have been wondering how to go about keeping difficulties out in the open (when needed) and affirming them to the kids without seeming like we are disparaging their mom. The custody is 50/50 and I think as they get older it must be getting harder for them. We encourage sharing about what they did with mom and are positive but correct misinformation when it's reported by the kids. I think my fiancé and I feel that an extra child on the field is unfair to the children on the team and the othe


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livednlearned
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 08:29:41 PM »

Thank you. We will try that. The children are young grade-school age. They are terrific but we have been wondering how to go about keeping difficulties out in the open (when needed) and affirming them to the kids without seeming like we are disparaging their mom. The custody is 50/50 and I think as they get older it must be getting harder for them. We encourage sharing about what they did with mom and are positive but correct misinformation when it's reported by the kids. I think my fiancé and I feel that an extra child on the field is unfair to the children on the team and the othe

You can have the whole conversation without even mentioning biomom. It could be that Child 1 could care less what child 2 is doing. If biomom tells him that child 2 is being rude when he tosses the ball to his dad, and the kid is thinking, "it must be rude if she says it is," then he doesn't learn "I feel like it's ok when child 2 throws the ball while I'm playing. It's mom who is bothered by it, not me." All you're doing is checking to see how he feels.

There is a great book about this called Power of Validation. It's the best antidote to the triangulating and invalidating and drama triangle stuff that people with emotional dysregulation issues tend to engage in, especially that toxic alienation stuff that really poisons the kids.

I also think it's ok to be really frank about stuff with kids when there is a BPD bioparent involved. The key is to do it in a way that you set your own feelings aside and let it be about the kids. That's why validating is so important to understand -- otherwise you can end up being one more adult who is invalidating the reality and feelings of the kids -- they get enough of that from the BPD parent.
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david
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 09:51:31 PM »

Your gut is telling you something is not right. Go with your gut. If you find that your gut tricked you then you learned something.

I agree that talking to the kids about it is a great idea. Going along with distorted thinking tells the kids that is "normal" when it is not. Validation is really important for young children.

My ex ran away in 2007. Our youngest was 4.5 years old at the time. He had several years of figuring things out without enough of a skill set because of his youth. I listened a lot and always addressed his issues/ideas on his level. I became a much better parent because of ex leaving and trying to create the chaos she is so good at.

If the older boy is playing an organized sport and is really focused on the game he will not be noticing much else but the game. He may not like the fact that his younger sibling is thrown into the mix. He may not mind either.

First thing is to find out what both kids are thinking and then go from there.
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Matt
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« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2014, 12:52:45 PM »

Is there a parenting coach, mediator, or attorney involved?  Any person with authority?



From:  Dad

To:  Mom

Re:  Child1's games

When you are coaching the games, it's not possible to also pay attention to Child2.  And the games are often at times when I am responsible for him.

So during C1's games I will take care of C2.



Say what you are going to do, and then do it.

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highroadstepmom

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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2014, 05:30:29 PM »

Matt,

they were ordered to co-parent counseling earlier in the year.  the second to last session ended with uBPDex screaming obscenities at my fiancé and stalking out. This most recent ended in her also leaving. At this point, we believe that the counselor will go back to the master and say it's hopeless.

My fiancé has asked for some kind of activities schedule to be added to the custody agreement. It is being pursued.

Regarding what you suggested, the ex has informed my fiancé that she has 'special permission' from the activity organization to have the non-playing child 'help' coach.

The non-playing boy says he wants to be on the field (of course he does! he was given a special referee outfit, his own whistle, authority over younger children!).  How could we speak about this with him? The ex will say that my fiancé is trying to keep the boy from doing what he wants and thus, a favorite refrain 'hurting the children'. How can we talk to him about why - on dad's day - he doesn't get to 'coach'?

Would you recommend proceeding the same way? Those boys are just getting to a point where they are aware of the negativity when the two parents are in proximity.  We model civility but it's the elephant in the room.

Thank you for the insights.  They are helpful.


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Matt
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2014, 05:52:17 PM »

Yeah, I think it's important to give the right messages to Mom, to Child1, and to Child2, separately.

All that stuff about "special permission" doesn't matter, if Dad decides to care for Child2.  He should state, "I will care for Child2." and then do it.

To explain it to Child1 I think will be pretty easy, since he will be focused on the game.  "I'm going to take care of Child2 so your mom can focus on coaching."  End of discussion - simple and clear.

To explain it to Child2, I think you (or Dad) just need to be very clear and matter-of-fact.  If you have the referee uniform, let him wear it whenever he wants, so it won't be so special.  When it's time to go to the game, either take Child2 and tell him, "Momma has to be the coach but you and I can play football til the game is over.", or maybe consider taking Child2 to another place - like to the park - and just focus on Child2 during the game.  Then go see the last part of the game, pick up Child1, and leave.

If none of that works - if Mom's manipulation is just too much - then I would certainly get the counselor involved, or talk to your lawyer, and get the court order changed.  Make the CO so clear that Mom won't have opportunities to manipulate like this.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2014, 05:59:32 PM »

Is your fiance being too passive with his son?

It's so important to make sure the kid knows what he wants, and doesn't think he wants what his mom wants. Your fiance has to figure this stuff out otherwise he'll be in a million scenarios like this. He has to work hard on validating both boys -- that means asking his son to figure out what he really wants to do. If he is torn, and wants to do both, then the two of them need to come up with a plan where they can do both. Maybe your fiance starts to wear a ref uniform too   and they can work together on keeping the younger kids in line.

Often, the issues aren't about the specifics, it's about modeling the long-term behavior -- making sure the kids know how they feel. It's going to be a lot harder for biomom to feed them a line of BS if they know what's real, and the best way to do that is practice practice practice. There is no one better to help them with this than your fiance.

"Your mom says you want to be a referee and have a uniform and blow the whistle. I can't tell. How do you feel? Is that what you want to be doing. I know your mom made this happen for you, but what do you want? What's in your heart?"
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