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Author Topic: Having serious trust issues / A delicate topic to discuss  (Read 844 times)
Rockylove
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« on: October 02, 2014, 07:29:23 AM »

I'm not even sure how to approach him about this!  I snooped on his computer.  He's signed up for a gay chat site.  He's got photos on it of himself in stockings and a skirt with his junk hanging out.  I'm kinda stunned.  He put himself out there as

Lookin to suck n ___

50, 5'10", 170lb, 34w, Average, Brown Hair, Some Body Hair, White, Looking for Friendship, 1-on-1 Sex, 3some/ Group Sex, Misc Fetishes, Relationship.

Like thick c*cks of any flavor. Some kink is cool too. Can travel or host sometimes, have a relationship going but like some extra , too. ___________ area.


Casual, Out Yes, Smoke Socially, Drink Socially, Zodiac Cancer.

Bottom, 6" Cut, Safe Sex Only, HIV Negative,

HAVE A RELATIONSHIP GOING?  We're married!   
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enlighten me
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 07:52:41 AM »

Hi Rocky

I don't know what to say apart from Im sorry your having to deal with this.

Whatever you decide we are here for you.

EM
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2014, 08:24:44 AM »

I am so sorry.  I hear this story a lot at my support group for spouses of sex addicts, which can be a something that BPDs have an issue with.  I just want to offer my support.
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Rockylove
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2014, 04:23:55 AM »

When I first showed it to him, he denied it was him... .said I was crazy, but we both remained really calm.  I told him that it was DEFINITELY him.  I could tell where the pictures were taken by the back ground.  They had to be several years old because we moved into this house two years ago tomorrow.  At any rate, it made for a terribly stressful day for me.  I'm working on a very challenging tile installation and I couldn't concentrate.  Packed it in after 3 hours and came home.

He was being his "normal" self.  I sat quietly in my chair watching him work on some trim he's putting around a window.  We spent several hours doing the normal routine stuff... .took the dogs out, etc.  When I brought the pups in for their dinner, my husband held me and told me that he'd never ever cheat on me.  I asked him why he put up that profile, he said "I don't know... .I get bored and I just did it to mess with people"   

I told him that was a very cruel thing to do to me and to those people and he agreed (with his head hung and sounding very much like a child).  The thing is that I REALLY believe that's the reason he did it!  He certainly does love a good mind game and that would have been one for the books!  I told him he needed a better hobby. 

Again... .I feel I'm being tested!   I said I would never cheat on him, but he said he didn't know that to be true.  I've never given him reason to suspect I would and he's given me plenty! 

We ended up with an almost adult discussion about sex.  To think we've been together 3 years and I feel like we're still stuck on conversations we should have had in the 1st 3 months.  UGH!

It appears he has taken down the profile~~or changed it so I can't find it.  As he says... .time will tell. 
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Rockylove
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2014, 06:18:49 AM »

In my last post, I spoke of my husband going on a gay dating site.  He said he gets bored and does stupid things to mess with people.  Well... .he kinda messed with me.  How do I trust him?  Or do I not?  He said he'd never cheat on me, but I feel cheated already! 
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itgirl
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2014, 06:55:35 AM »

I read your post and I do feel for you.  I would not be able to handle that very well.

If you took the word gay out.  How would you feel?  Would you still believe that he was only having fun messing with people?  Or would you think he is actually looking for something?
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Cat21
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2014, 06:56:12 AM »

Man, that's tough, Rockylove. I don't have experience with this, but my gut tells me that I'd start examining his patterns. Things like, does he disappear for long stretches, do you know where he is when he's not with you, etc. etc. Again, this is unknown territory for me, but perhaps if you start "investigating", you might come up with the truth?

I'm sorry. What a crappy, crappy situation.
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Rockylove
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2014, 07:28:15 AM »

If you took the word gay out.  How would you feel?  Would you still believe that he was only having fun messing with people?  Or would you think he is actually looking for something?

either way... .it feels bad.  I know what he wants from our intimacy... .but I suspect he has a side that wants that down and dirty stuff too.  There is no right and wrong... .he just needs to express what his needs and desires are.  Honesty goes a very long way with me.  I'd never ask him to be anything other than what he is... .gay, straight with a twist, bi-sexual.  I don't care.  As long as our life isn't disrupted by some crazy person that happens to enter into it, I'm ok.

We enjoy a wonderful bond and friendship and love life, but I feel that he's hiding his true self from me out of fear of rejection.  I don't think he has the remotest idea of unconditional love. 

Granted, there are certain things that I'll not tolerate (he cannot sneak around having sex with random people) but if he's up front about his needs, I can accept that.  I'm sure that's a more progressive thought process than many of you may share, but seriously... .why fight it?  Why make him feel miserable trying to conform to a traditional relationship? 

Some of you will think I'm crazy... .some of you will not.  It doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks if what we do is consensual.  I prefer honesty.  The not knowing drives me crazy.  And maybe giving permission will lessen the desire.
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2014, 10:38:03 AM »

I think he knows he's got the best possible partner he could have (and that he's ever had). That he loves you and doesn't want to mess that up. That he knows pretty well by now that you are open-minded and accepting.

The man you've described over time on this forum has some pretty strong demons, though, so he's got a rough road in this regard--especially if he has been more successful lately in moderating his anger and alcohol consumption.

My wild guess would be that the unspoken need he actually has (and doesn't want to reveal to you) is more psychological than sexual. Especially given that he is in his late fifties. But what is it? Covert rebellion against a parental figure or a social norm? A need to punish someone or something?

Is there any possibility he was a victim of sexual abuse as a child?



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Olinda
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2014, 11:13:38 AM »

I might be very careful with unprotected sex if I were you. Whether he was on a gay or straight dating site, this spells danger for your sexual health.

Therapy as a couple would be recommended to discuss this.

This would make it very hard for me to trust my partner too, any type of dating profile. You are not alone in that. 
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2014, 01:49:04 PM »

either way... .it feels bad.  I know what he wants from our intimacy... .but I suspect he has a side that wants that down and dirty stuff too.  There is no right and wrong... .he just needs to express what his needs and desires are.  Honesty goes a very long way with me.  I'd never ask him to be anything other than what he is... .gay, straight with a twist, bi-sexual.  I don't care.  As long as our life isn't disrupted by some crazy person that happens to enter into it, I'm ok.

I know exactly what you mean. At one point in our relationship, my husband said that he thought he might be bisexual. I helped arrange for some experimentation. I don't want anybody to feel like they have to deny their true selves just to be with me.

Excerpt
We enjoy a wonderful bond and friendship and love life, but I feel that he's hiding his true self from me out of fear of rejection.  I don't think he has the remotest idea of unconditional love. 

He may not be hiding it as much as he has no clue who his true self is. He could be mired in self hatred because he has thoughts/urges etc. that are not in line with what he thinks he should be doing.

Excerpt
Granted, there are certain things that I'll not tolerate (he cannot sneak around having sex with random people) but if he's up front about his needs, I can accept that.  I'm sure that's a more progressive thought process than many of you may share, but seriously... .why fight it?  Why make him feel miserable trying to conform to a traditional relationship? 

I am with you on this too. My husband and I wanted to try an open relationship or some form of polyamory. My husband had been miserable for so long that I figured it was worth a try. The problem was that he was lying to me and the other women. He was painting me out to be some kind of horrible wife that had cut him off. I had done no such thing. I had been doing all sorts of things for him and I am the one that told him that we could do this as long as he was honest and up front about it. I didn't want any side activity to interfere with our family life though. It was an epic fail on all accounts.

Excerpt
Some of you will think I'm crazy... .some of you will not.  It doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks if what we do is consensual.  I prefer honesty.  The not knowing drives me crazy.  And maybe giving permission will lessen the desire.

When I gave mine permission, it didn't lessen the desire at all. It made him even more compulsive and it ended up feeding his sex addiction. But no, I don't think you are crazy at all. I will say that giving permission won't lessen the desire nor will it make anything better. My husband is a very unhappy person and he cannot be honest. I think it is because facing the truth about himself is entirely too scary.
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2014, 05:52:09 PM »

Please be careful. Print his post out so you have evidence. Set a clear boundary what ever that is for you. I know mine is no emotional or physical affairs of any kind period. Complete fidelity or I am gone. Now it should be noted mine has left me but I still believe that. Then get a counsellor. Please. Its not worth your life. I work in health care and I see it all the time. Its not worth the risk.
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 06:03:18 PM »

His mind is not the same as yours (as you know). He compartmentalizes this and sees it as nothing do with you, and not a threat to you. Almost as if he is just discussing another hobby he is obsessing over.

He does not see this as the same as "other women".
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2014, 06:16:21 PM »

He didn't do this to mess with people. It was an adrenalin rush. It is part of not really knowing who they are and their lack of self. Playing on the "dark side' is a way of pushing their own boundaries and trying to define themselves.

He sees this as having nothing to do with you. In his mind it is not about you nor a threat to his RS with you. Of course it is to you, but pwBPD act on what their own chain of rationalization is. If that contrasts with yours they hide it.

The world is full of "normal" people who fantasize about all sorts of strange things like this, but most people keep a grip on reality and can differentiate between fantasy and reality, pwBPD struggle to keep the two apart as their grip on reality is fragile due to their lack of self identity.
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MissyM
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2014, 10:21:56 PM »

Excerpt
I asked him why he put up that profile, he said "I don't know... .I get bored and I just did it to mess with people"  huh



That is very likely a lie.  My dBPDh is a diagnosed sex addict and he swore up and down that he had just called a couple of hookers, never met anyone.  He kept this lie up for months, until I found proof otherwise.  He was in therapy and doing recovery work for sex addiction and still lying about it.  When he had enough therapy and was faced with a lie detector test, the whole truth came out. (25 hookers over a 1.5 year period of time)   I have heard a similar responses of their husbands when caught from over 50 spouses, they just lie.  (I was just looking.  I just placed an add to see what weirdos would respond.  I just called one time.  We just exchanged emails.  Ok, I met with them but couldn't actually have sex.  They were chasing me, I didn't do anything.)

I am not saying that your husband is a sex addict but do not ignore that no one places ads like these for a kick.  They are to hook up with someone for sex.  Keep your eyes open and protect yourself.
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Rockylove
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2014, 07:07:24 AM »

He didn't do this to mess with people. It was an adrenalin rush. It is part of not really knowing who they are and their lack of self. Playing on the "dark side' is a way of pushing their own boundaries and trying to define themselves.

He sees this as having nothing to do with you. In his mind it is not about you nor a threat to his RS with you. Of course it is to you, but pwBPD act on what their own chain of rationalization is. If that contrasts with yours they hide it.

The world is full of "normal" people who fantasize about all sorts of strange things like this, but most people keep a grip on reality and can differentiate between fantasy and reality, pwBPD struggle to keep the two apart as their grip on reality is fragile due to their lack of self identity.

I can see this as a possibility.  He's been feeling (sexually) insecure lately.  Said he doesn't think he pleases me and thinks I'm bored with him.  

He broke down briefly last night and told me that he wanted to hurt them the way he was hurt (he said he was only 10 when it happened).  I felt so very sad for him.  I asked him why he never told me before and he said that it was his burden not mine and it wouldn't change what happened.  I told him that it would help me understand though.  

I feel hurt and betrayed, but I also feel such deep sadness for him.  I just don't understand why this has to happen.  Why would anyone hurt a child?  This poor little broken boy is hiding in a grown man's body and is still

struggling, crying and acting out because of it.
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Rockylove
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2014, 07:28:00 AM »

My wild guess would be that the unspoken need he actually has (and doesn't want to reveal to you) is more psychological than sexual. Especially given that he is in his late fifties. But what is it? Covert rebellion against a parental figure or a social norm? A need to punish someone or something?

Is there any possibility he was a victim of sexual abuse as a child?

Yes ^^ The 1st thing he told me about was his Aunt taunting him sexually.  He said nothing ever happened because he told her no, but then last night he told me of a minister that had done something (he didn't go into detail) when he was 10.  He said he wanted to hurt them the way he was hurt.  Of course that makes no sense to me, but his broken inner child is screaming for something~~I'm just not sure what.

I know that having an open relationship doesn't work most often and I really would doubt he'd want it anyway... .what's good for the gander would be good for the goose and he'd be way too jealous to let anyone touch me.

I must say he has a knack for dropping bombs on me.  When he told me about his Aunt (about 2 years ago) I was shocked and kind of disgusted.  Not with him~~with her and I let him know that I thought it was a terrible thing to do to a child.  He dismissed it by saying that she was just going through some weird head stuff or something.  Anyway... .I thought that was the extent of the abuse... .I was wrong.
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Rockylove
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2014, 07:37:27 AM »

His mind is not the same as yours (as you know). He compartmentalizes this and sees it as nothing do with you, and not a threat to you. Almost as if he is just discussing another hobby he is obsessing over.

He does not see this as the same as "other women".

Very strange thing, waverider... .he brought up the subject last night and said that he meant it when he said it wasn't him.  Yes... .it was him. I wish I could recall the words he used, but the essence of what he was saying was that he was not that person.  I think he's acting out a role~~not that he has a split personality, but perhaps that angry, hurt child haunts him and it's part of himself that he can't make peace with.  I sure wish I knew how to help him with that.
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2014, 10:16:29 AM »

  no one places ads like these for a kick.  

I know and have heard of people doing this for "kicks"... .most do it to actually hook up... but there are some that do it for something a little more than fantasy... .but no actual contact.
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2014, 10:35:29 AM »

Rocky,

Don't some disturbed men do this to lure gay men to a beating?

I'm coming up short in trying to think of a way this doesn't pose a threat to you. (Health threat, financial threat, violence threat, and all that.)



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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2014, 10:41:30 AM »

Rocky,

Don't some disturbed men do this to lure gay men to a beating?

I'm coming up short in trying to think of a way this doesn't pose a threat to you. (Health threat, financial threat, violence threat, and all that.)

Good point Kate.  Certainly a thorough health check up is in order... .just to be sure.  And think through safe sex issues... .
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2014, 10:58:10 AM »

Rocky,

Don't some disturbed men do this to lure gay men to a beating?

Bit extreme for just a wind up

  He's got photos on it of himself in stockings and a skirt with his junk hanging out. 

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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2014, 11:31:23 AM »

The recent comment that he "wanted to hurt them the way they hurt him" is concerning, though.   


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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2014, 11:55:46 PM »

Wow. Read both threads... .

I've got a few thoughts... .one is that he cannot tell you truthfully and directly what he will not admit to himself... .and it sounds like there is a significant part of this.

Second is that what he posted on a gay dating site probably does mean "something" even if he won't acknowledge it to you. I also would suggest you do not jump to conclusions about exactly what it is about this that means something to him--there are many aspects of it, and he certainly is confused and not very self-aware in this, that much I am sure of.

One story--my wife and I started talking about the possibility of some sort of err, sexual adventure, not very well defined... .we looked at "couple seeking" type ads online, and actually tried looking for something wild, perhaps swinging. We didn't really find much, and didn't do much of that... .My wife later (after some healing from BPD-ish stuff on her part) did admit that she was actually looking for something she could do that would be hurting herself sexually... .because she felt that she somehow deserved it.

So when I say there is "something" it might be well removed from the direct stuff you could guess.

I think he's acting out a role~~not that he has a split personality, but perhaps that angry, hurt child haunts him and it's part of himself that he can't make peace with.  I sure wish I knew how to help him with that.

I don't think there is much you can do except accept him as he is, and take care of yourself too. You can stand by him while he goes through the work and does it himself.

One thing that might help you (and perhaps him!) understand is to explore alternate sexuality. I don't mean in practice, I mean just learn about it. Dan Savage's column (Savage Love) and podcast (Savage Lovecast) is one good option--His advice usually involves good stuff like boundaries being well employed 'tho he doesn't use those words... .and will educate you to sexual orientations/identities you may not have heard of and fetishes I'm pretty sure you haven't heard of.
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« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2014, 04:31:45 AM »

Hello Rockylove,

I just want to echo a lot of what a Grey Kitty has said. I want to say that for my dBPDh when he was in his teens and through his twenties he has spoken about a lot of confusion around what sex rather than his sexuality meant for him. He linked this confusion to lack of confidence with woman and the ease with which he could engage in brief dangerous unprotected sexual encounters with men. He actively sought out liaisons with strangers in public places enjoying the associated risk, and spoke about needing to feel 'abused' in a passive role with a man hoping that he would be hurt, contract an STI or worse. He has a very confused relationship with his father who physically and verbally abused in from when he was a toddler. For him these two things are linked, I am not suggesting that for anyone else the links are the same.

For me such behaviours like the ad your husband placed seem linked to many many other things some of which we can never fully understand. 
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Rockylove
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« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2014, 05:04:00 PM »

The recent comment that he "wanted to hurt them the way they hurt him" is concerning, though.   

KateCat... .I tend to agree but he'd been drinking and doubt he would have been very clear at that point.  He kept saying (through tears) that he was only 10 over and again.  I would hope he was hurting and wanting to lash out, but he knows he can't get away with doing it to me any more.  I just don't subscribe to that philosophy and he got the memo.  We've had round about discussions through the weekend.  A friend of ours was here and he seems to ground my husband.  I don't care all that much about WHY he did what he did as much as having him know that he crossed the line and that is something that will NOT enhance our relationship. 

My one fear is that he's got so much built up hurt and anger that he needs an outlet, but can't find one that isn't destructive to himself or our marriage.
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« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2014, 05:32:35 PM »

Hello Rockylove,

I just want to echo a lot of what a Grey Kitty has said. I want to say that for my dBPDh when he was in his teens and through his twenties he has spoken about a lot of confusion around what sex rather than his sexuality meant for him... .

For me such behaviours like the ad your husband placed seem linked to many many other things some of which we can never fully understand. 

This is truly complicated, sweetheart.  My husband expressed from the beginning that he could never have sex with someone he didn't care about so with that in mind, he would not equate what he was doing to having sex... .it would be in that realm of that which I don't understand.  We have a fingertip touch (like E.T.) that is our signal to each other that we are on a plane that no one else is or ever will be.  He's said it over and again that he'd never ever cheat on me and I believe him.  I know he loves me and I love him.  Trust is a huge issue with me since I've had many reasons not to trust him, but I've given him NO reason not to trust me.  He says he doesn't know that I won't cheat on him because I may get bored with him.  Deal breaker for me is cheating or beating.  Soo complicated.

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« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2014, 05:56:44 PM »

I was thinking that the ":)an Savage" advice given by Grey Kitty was on the mark. And that the explanation sweetheart got at one point from her husband would be something similar to one that you would soon hear. But if your husband is denying he placed that ad, then what are you to do or think?


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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2014, 06:21:06 PM »

I'm not even sure how to approach him about this!  I snooped on his computer.  He's signed up for a gay chat site.  He's got photos on it of himself in stockings and a skirt with his junk hanging out.  I'm kinda stunned.  He put himself out there as

Lookin to suck n ___

50, 5'10", 170lb, 34w, Average, Brown Hair, Some Body Hair, White, Looking for Friendship, 1-on-1 Sex, 3some/ Group Sex, Misc Fetishes, Relationship.

Like thick c*cks of any flavor. Some kink is cool too. Can travel or host sometimes, have a relationship going but like some extra , too. ___________ area.


Casual, Out Yes, Smoke Socially, Drink Socially, Zodiac Cancer.

Bottom, 6" Cut, Safe Sex Only, HIV Negative,

HAVE A RELATIONSHIP GOING?  We're married!   

ummmmmmmm if he has BPD IMHO he might not qualify as having a sexual identity but he's clearly MSM* and sounds like he's VERY high* risk for STD's.

www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/
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ropend
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Single
Posts: 86



« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2014, 06:24:54 PM »

I'm not even sure how to approach him about this!  I snooped on his computer.  He's signed up for a gay chat site.  He's got photos on it of himself in stockings and a skirt with his junk hanging out.  I'm kinda stunned.  He put himself out there as

Lookin to suck n ___

50, 5'10", 170lb, 34w, Average, Brown Hair, Some Body Hair, White, Looking for Friendship, 1-on-1 Sex, 3some/ Group Sex, Misc Fetishes, Relationship.

Like thick c*cks of any flavor. Some kink is cool too. Can travel or host sometimes, have a relationship going but like some extra , too. ___________ area.


Casual, Out Yes, Smoke Socially, Drink Socially, Zodiac Cancer.

Bottom, 6" Cut, Safe Sex Only, HIV Negative,

HAVE A RELATIONSHIP GOING?  We're married!   

ummmmmmmm if he has BPD IMHO he might not qualify as having a sexual identity but he's clearly MSM* and sounds like he's VERY high* risk for STD's.

www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/

I may be wrong.

It's possible he's just looking to injure the sorts of people who would be into this sort of thing.
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