Having serious trust issues / A delicate topic to discuss

[Rockylove]

I was thinking that the ":)an Savage" advice given by Grey Kitty was on the mark. And that the explanation sweetheart got at one point from her husband would be something similar to one that you would soon hear. But if your husband is denying he placed that ad, then what are you to do or think?

He didn't deny he placed the ad.  what he said was "that's not me" and then later that evening gave me a rather lame explanation.  The next day he said he meant it when he said that wasn't him.  That much I do believe.  He really means that it's not him... .it's someone he doesn't want to be him. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[KateCat]

Oh, that makes sense. One of those things we "wish we weren't" or can't really believe that we "are."

Would someone be able to place such a sophisticated ad without real-life experience to back it up? (I started reading Dan Savage sometime in the 1990s I think, because he was a local writer of talent and able to educate in a kind of Masters and Johnson way, and I imagine someone who read a lot could "catfish" fake an ad something like that. But you wouldn't kind of casually kick back on a drunken night and produce that without anything at all behind it, would you?)

[waverider]

Would someone be able to place such a sophisticated ad without real-life experience to back it up? (I started reading Dan Savage sometime in the 1990s I think, because he was a local writer of talent and able to educate in a kind of Masters and Johnson way, and I imagine someone who read a lot could "catfish" fake an ad something like that. But you wouldn't kind of casually kick back on a drunken night and produce that without anything at all behind it, would you?)

The ad is too 'on the mark" to have been a passing comment. It is possible this is only a cyber fantasy, but it is a well thought out one that has evolved. The only thing that might be separating fantasy from reality is opportunity.

The only truth is that you will never know the truth, it will be a balance between your suspicions and his sanitized version. The important aspect is whether you can just accept that and move on or is it going to be one of those skeletons in the cupboard that keeps rattling and threatening to fall  out.

[MissyM]

I know and have heard of people doing this for "kicks"... .most do it to actually hook up... but there are some that do it for something a little more than fantasy... .but no actual contact.

I have heard of many that say that, it can be how it begins and then escalates.  It is a testing of the waters.  There is a continuum of behavior and rarely just stops there without serious intervention.  Add to it the history of sexual abuse and there are a lot of red flags for an evaluation by a specialist.

[waverider]

Deal breaker for me is cheating or beating.  Soo complicated.

He will not be classifying this as cheating as it is something you can't provide. To him this has nothing to do with you. It is not either/or, it is just another dynamic.

[KateCat]

What would "accepting" mean for a female partner of a man placing ads like this? Is it best practice to take a full range of safe sex precautions and then set a strong boundary against any such activities in her home?

[formflier]

  I prefer honesty.

 

I'm going to second comments about him not able to be honest with you if he is not honest with himself. 

The not knowing drives me crazy.  

I hope you can avoid too much snooping.  Or somehow give it up all together.

It can become a focus or obsession... .trying to figure things out.  Then... .when things don't get found... .you look even more.

However... I think you have come across something that does need to have an eye kept on it.

Thoughts on how to balance this?

[Grey Kitty]

The next day he said he meant it when he said that wasn't him.  That much I do believe.  He really means that it's not him... .it's someone he doesn't want to be him. 

The thing I find tricky here is that "he doesn't want this to be him" means he's not quite comfortable with who he is and what he wants. (Dan Savage gets letters/calls from people like this, and offers good advice... .)

One conclusion of mine is that your H needs to work through some of this and figure out who he is, and come to peace with it. That is a rough process for somebody without BPD. It doesn't sound like he wants to examine any of this... .and I suspect he has to do most/all of it on his own, rather than with you.

One hope is that if you start following this range of topics, he might find some interest in it... .and it could be a gentle way for him to expose himself to some ideas.

[MissyM]

what he said was "that's not me" and then later that evening gave me a rather lame explanation.  The next day he said he meant it when he said that wasn't him.

In my limited understanding of this issue, based upon what I have heard in groups, is that with some people with sexual addiction or compulsion,  they reenact their original trauma and harm themselves over and over again.  This is different than being bisexual or attracted to the same sex and might explain why he says that it isn't him.  If it is something that isn't innately him, might be what he is saying.  

[hope2727]

"In my limited understanding of this issue, based upon what I have heard in groups, is that with some people with sexual addiction or compulsion,  they reenact their original trauma and harm themselves over and over again.  This is different than being bisexual or attracted to the same sex and might explain why he says that it isn't him.  If it is something that isn't innately him, might be what he is saying.  "

Wow that is interesting. Chilling but interesting. Makes me wonder about my fiancee.

[Rockylove]

what he said was "that's not me" and then later that evening gave me a rather lame explanation.  The next day he said he meant it when he said that wasn't him.

In my limited understanding of this issue, based upon what I have heard in groups, is that with some people with sexual addiction or compulsion,  they reenact their original trauma and harm themselves over and over again.  This is different than being bisexual or attracted to the same sex and might explain why he says that it isn't him.  If it is something that isn't innately him, might be what he is saying.  

You may be on to something... .

We talked again last night about all of this.  He was outraged when I asked him why he would want to hurt someone the way he'd been hurt.  He said that's not what he said yadda yadda.  He calmed rather quickly and we talked more.  It's difficult for me to repeat the sequence of events in a discussion because they usually are all over the place, but he did mention that when he was a young teen, he was taunted by gay guys.  I can only imagine that brought back some very ugly memories for him.  He said maybe he just wants to be hurt~~that somehow he deserves it.  

I told him that regardless of why this happened, he crossed a line and we cannot do things that are hurtful to ourselves or each other.  He said "you don't do anything to hurt me" and I said, then please don't do things that hurt me.  

One last thing... .he's mentioned this before... .he's jealous that his brother got to see a therapist when they were young and he didn't.  Apparently his brother set off the fire alarm/sprinkler system at school.  I think my husband wanted to go to therapy to talk about the molestation.  He said he couldn't tell anybody back then, that they wouldn't believe him.  I asked him about seeing a therapist later in his life and he said they'd just take his money and tell him he was f'd up.  I told him that I had several different therapists until I found one that was helpful.  I opened the door... .if he walks through it, great... .if not, we ride the roller coaster.

[MissyM]

Wow that is interesting. Chilling but interesting. Makes me wonder about my fiancee.

He said maybe he just wants to be hurt~~that somehow he deserves it. 

It is very sad and seems to go along with the BPD issue of self harm.  A CSAT (certified sex addiction therapist) that also deals treats BPD, seems to be the only therapists I know of that deal with this issue.  As I said, sex addiction can be on a continuum and in different stages.  It may still be more of a compulsion and not full blown into addiction, yet.

[Rockylove]

Thank you all for the insights.  I have read and re-read your posts several times now and each time I get a bit more from this discussion.  My h has brought up the subject several times now and each time is more enlightening than the last.  In a way, he seems very relieved to have told me... .he said he's never told anyone about it before (I'm not so sure I buy that, but ok). 

At any rate... .I talked to him about the anger, sadness and guilt he feels and perhaps channel that energy into his music.  He's been up late every night since playing the guitar.  Perhaps that will quiet the gremlin for a while and give him some peace.

[KateCat]

Have you found out what you needed to about this incident in order to have peace? (I think I would feel the need for some honesty about the who-where-when aspects of the ad he placed.)

[formflier]

Have you found out what you needed to about this incident in order to have peace? (I think I would feel the need for some honesty about the who-where-when aspects of the ad he placed.)

I think I would have similar feelings to Kate on this... .want some detail.  I would be more interested in how this would get dealt with professionally... with a T.  How does this coming to light get worked on so he and the r/s is more healthy

[Rockylove]

Have you found out what you needed to about this incident in order to have peace? (I think I would feel the need for some honesty about the who-where-when aspects of the ad he placed.)

I think I would have similar feelings to Kate on this... .want some detail.  I would be more interested in how this would get dealt with professionally... with a T.  How does this coming to light get worked on so he and the r/s is more healthy

From the conversations we've had, I'm satisfied that this is an issue I can understand, set a boundary on and keep it.  He knows how I feel about what he's done.  I don't need to beat a dead horse.

He has brought the subject up several times.  I've not.  It's better that way.  If I bring it up, he feels attacked... .if he does, it opens a door.  I still think there is more to say, but I'll let him lead that discussion... .no sense in me getting tangled in his mess.  He has to either deal with his feelings about his abuse or not.  I can't make him do it.  I can just love him and let him know that out of respect for our relationship, this can't be part of it.  I've made no threats or given ultimatums.  I've let him know that it doesn't enhance our relationship for him to do things that are harmful to himself, me or others.  He has to be a big boy and deal with it.  If not, he can chalk it up to another failure, but it's not mine.

[formflier]

 

Might be helpful... .if he brings it up... to ask his feelings on discussing it with someone other than you.

I think you are right not to give ultimatum... .but this has obviously had a big impact on his life...

[Rockylove]

I've sort of opened that door, formlier.  He has often said he doesn't want to be psycho-analyzed or told he's f'd in the head, etc., yet he's told me several times now that he was jealous that his brother got to see a "shrink" when they were young.  I think he wants it but is afraid. 

[KateCat]

Do I understand correctly that your husband has not actually been having sexual encounters with men?

[Rockylove]

Do I understand correctly that your husband has not actually been having sexual encounters with men?

Not to the best of my knowledge, KateCat.  I can only go by what I know for sure and what he tells me, but it seems more of a mind game for him.  His head was screwed with when he was a child and now he's lashing out at gay men.  We had a conversation about the difference between being gay and being a pedophile.  He seemed to be connecting the two somehow.  He was not only molested by a minister, but in his teens, he was tormented by some gay guys.  It may all just be blending together in his mind.

[KateCat]

rocky,

I see from your other thread that you have worked as an advocate for children in the court system. (Thank you for your service. My sister is a CASA as well. ) You seem at peace now with this particular situation, so I should STFU. Still, I wonder if it isn't dangerous to feel that you are now advocating for your husband in a similar way (as I think you also said in your other thread.) Can't this have the paradoxical effect of turning his anger and frustration on you?

[Rockylove]

rocky,

Can't this have the paradoxical effect of turning his anger and frustration on you?

Maybe... .but I'm ok with it.  If he wants to run from a genuine love, I cannot stop him.  If he wants to take out all of his frustrations on me, so be it.  I have made it clear that I will not be a punching bag.  Whatever happens in this life, I will survive.  I've no intention of letting anyone force me into being any way I don't want to be again.  [/quote]