Honoring commitments

[Cat21]

My uBPDh is a chameleon when it comes to social events/friends. I've read other people's accounts on this site about the same thing- the pwBPD conforms to his/her surroundings and is seemingly incapable of acting any differently outside of the present social situation.

My problem is this: my H spends a fair amount of time with one friend in particular. Whenever they get together, my H is NEVER home when he says he's going to be. Mind you, I don't ask him to be home by a certain time: he tells me. And without fail, he is never when he says he will be and about 50% of the time, doesn't call or text to say he's going to be late. This has been an issue since the beginning of our relationship, but with different friends. His pattern is: spend a lot of time with one friend (or group of friends), then a few years later, dump that group and start anew with someone else (or another group). Again, I think that's common BPD behavior.

I've voiced my concern and irritation over his disregard of time/honoring HIS timetable MANY times to no avail. Is this just something I'm going to have to get over?

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[Cat21]

Also, he usually comes home drunk after being with this friend. He came home 2 hours late tonight (no call or apologiy), drunk, and completely denying that he dud anything wrong. I'm being painted black for being upset.

[Mrs.Mclost]

Hi cat21,

Well you could look at it this way, if your H's patterns ring true, it will be a matter of time before he dumps this friend and moves on to the next,right? Don't get me wrong, not cking in is rude & not very considerate. Or you could just predict that when he is out with said friend that the likelyhood of him keeping his word on what time he'll be home is not going to be true, then sit back and wait for his time with this person to run it's course.Oh, and I hope your not trying to talk to him about this behavior when he's been drinking(that never works), sounds like he's in "only thinking about himself mode" when he does it. I wish I had some suggestions as to how to steer him away from doing things like this at all, but I don't, every situation is different... .

[waverider]

pwBPDs main motivators are impulsiveness and immediate needs.

Responsibility and obligation are very low motivators for them and are easily overridden by the former.

They are unaware of this and so will believe in their ability to fulfill their promises, hence you get let down.

Arguing about it wont get you anywhere, just make allowances for it in your plans so you are not left hanging. If something is a major issue then you decide on a boundary (not a demand)

[Cat21]

Arguing about it wont get you anywhere, just make allowances for it in your plans so you are not left hanging. If something is a major issue then you decide on a boundary (not a demand)

So basically, I just just assume that he'll always be late and go about my business, as this is likely something that will never change? I suppose that means I should not plan anything around his arrivals, as those plans are likely to be ruined. Or, have alternative plans.

It terms of coming home drunk, that's much trickier for me. If were late and sober, I would have still been irritated, but he was late and drunk. He drove home drunk. He also completely denied even being drunk. I can't wrap my head around how to deal with this- I've thought about what the boundary would be, but I really have no idea. I could use help and insight.

[formflier]

 

If this is a big issue for you... .then just be aware this may be a higher hill to climb because of what waverider described.

But not impossible.

[waverider]

So basically, I just just assume that he'll always be late and go about my business, as this is likely something that will never change? I suppose that means I should not plan anything around his arrivals, as those plans are likely to be ruined. Or, have alternative plans.

Not that he will always be late, but that you can't assume he will keep his word, and yes keep plans flexible and have a plan B.

It terms of coming home drunk, that's much trickier for me. If were late and sober, I would have still been irritated, but he was late and drunk. He drove home drunk. He also completely denied even being drunk. I can't wrap my head around how to deal with this- I've thought about what the boundary would be, but I really have no idea. I could use help and insight.

Is this a regular thing? Does he have a drink problem or is this just something that happens occasionally. Once someone has been drinking all other issues in regards to lack of consideration are accentuated. If he has a genuine drinking problem this is another issue and no amount of jumping up and down will make a difference, any boundaries will be to remove yourself from its effects rather than trying to force him to do as you would prefer.

I have had to tackle serious alcholism layered over BPD and it is a horror. However there is a difference between alcholism and simply being occasionally irresponsible when alcohol is added to the mix.

Drink added to mental illness causes a fragile grip on reality to fail completely. If you are not careful it can easily be flipped around so that the resulting drama becomes the excuse to drink.

[123Phoebe]

It terms of coming home drunk, that's much trickier for me. If were late and sober, I would have still been irritated, but he was late and drunk. He drove home drunk. He also completely denied even being drunk. I can't wrap my head around how to deal with this- I've thought about what the boundary would be, but I really have no idea. I could use help and insight.

Is there enough money stashed away in the event he gets a DUI?  Have you tried discussing this with him when he's sober?

"Honey, it's important to maintain friendships and I want you to know that I support that 100%, I want you to have a good time with so and so.  I have to be honest, I am scared to death about driving while under the influence; it would break my heart if anything happened to you, to us, to anybody.  They are cracking down on that stuff hard!  I would be more than willing and happy to pick you up after having a few."

"I wasn't drunk.  You don't know what you're talking about.  You're delusional."

"I love you and want you to be safe."

Then see where it goes from there?  

As far as him not honoring his time commitment, I don't know.  There have been plenty of times that I've gotten caught up in the frenzy of fun and time has escaped me.  I'd be annoyed with someone breathing down my neck about "my" time  (not that you are, it might feel that way to him, tho)  Guess that's partly why I prefer living alone

[formflier]

 

You can also ask him how an "alcohol related incident" will work in the military... .

That is a bit less that an DUI...

Good chance of being kicked out for a DUI... .not for sure... .but it is possible.

[123Phoebe]

You can also ask him how an "alcohol related incident" will work in the military... .

Absolutely!  There are so many ramifications involved... .  Not something to take lightly or fool around with, that's for sure.

[Cat21]

Thanks for weighing in; this is helpful. No, he doesn't have a drinking problem. In fact, he just recently started drinking again after 5-6 weeks of almost nothing. So in terms of this incident, I'd say it's more of an irresponsibility issue. However, coming home drunk, whether he drove or not, is not unusual when this particular friend is involved. He does not drive home drunk every time they hang out, but he has driven home while intoxicated before. I have offered to pick him up several times- his friend's wife even drove him home once.

I've certainly expressed my concern when this happened before, saying things like, "I'm terribly worried that you could hurt yourself or someone else. I love you and don't want to see you get hurt or arrested." He assures me I'm overreacting (of course) and that I have nothing to worry about. He once told me that he's too smart to be pulled over. He's also well aware of what happens in terms of military action- a former friend and co-worker of his got a DUI several years ago and almost lost his job.

He did apologize to me today for being late and worrying me last night claiming that he "will not do it again. Promise. Totally my fault." He said nothing about driving drunk, however. I wanted to talk to him about it tonight, but I am very tired and just don't have the energy to have a civil, calm talk that could potentially last a long time or turn into an argument. So, I'll talk to him about it tomorrow.

Lastly, as far as the time issue goes: I never ask him to come home by a certain time. He tells me what time he'll be home on his own. I don't question it or remind him, but I become concerned if he's late and hasn't called. I always hope that if I lead by example, it might make a difference. So, if I'm out with friends without him, I tell him when I'll be home and I stick to it. And if I don't know when I'll be home, I keep him in the loop throughout the night and I always call when I'm actually headed home. If he did the same for me, I could care less how late he stayed out. (OK, maybe that's an exaggeration.)

[formflier]

  No, he doesn't have a drinking problem. In fact, he just recently started drinking again after 5-6 weeks of almost nothing.

He may not be an alcoholic... .but his relationship with alcohol is causing issues.  ":)rinking problem" means lots of things to lots of different people. 

I would take some time to make sure you clearly do or don't believe that the behavior with alcohol is or isn't a problem.  Then communicate that to him and stand firm. 

You can't decide his alcohol relationship issues for him... .I'm more interested in making sure you don't enable bad behavior with alcohol.

I've personally heard many of the same statements from guys that have ended up all crossed up with the military justice system... because they thought they were too smart or it couldn't happen to him.

Don't blow this out of proportion either... .

I recommend spending time thinking through your values first on this... .he will most likely push and prod at them if he is not happy with your values.

[Cat21]

  No, he doesn't have a drinking problem. In fact, he just recently started drinking again after 5-6 weeks of almost nothing.

I would take some time to make sure you clearly do or don't believe that the behavior with alcohol is or isn't a problem.  Then communicate that to him and stand firm. 

You can't decide his alcohol relationship issues for him... .I'm more interested in making sure you don't enable bad behavior with alcohol.

I recommend spending time thinking through your values first on this... .he will most likely push and prod at them if he is not happy with your values.

I do believe he has a problem with alcohol, yes. He's not an alcoholic, but he goes through periods where I believe he drinks too much. Maybe to some, 3 drinks/night isn't too much, but in my opinion, it is. So, I'd say yes- I do think he has a problem. I have talked to him about it before, several times, in fact. I've expressed my concern and have been told, "I'm fine. I don't have a problem, I can stop drinking anytime I want to." And sometimes, he does. I've been careful NEVER to accuse him of being addicted, because I know he's not. But, I also know that he uses it to help soothe stress.

How would I be an enabler in regards to alcohol? Maybe I'm not understanding my role.

[formflier]

  And sometimes, he does. I've been careful NEVER to accuse him of being addicted, because I know he's not. But, I also know that he uses it to help soothe stress.

How would I be an enabler in regards to alcohol? Maybe I'm not understanding my role.

Just be clear that you consider this dangerous... .an alcohol problem and that he is the only one that can deal with it.

Using alcohol to soothe stress is fine... .just don't drive. 

This is a good segway to talk about therapy.  Individual or MC.  or both.

Why spend a lot of time focusing on treating a symptom... ."stress"... .when it is a much better use of resources to prevent stress in first place.

Basically your role is not to let him off the hook... .also don't want to persecute either... .can be a bit of a fine line.

A good tactic could be to have several choices you are fine with... .go to IC... .go to MC... .go to evaluation for alcohol issues... etc etc...

There has been a dangerous incident... .what is the healthy way to deal with this? 

If he has promised to not do this again in the past... .and backed out... .then don't accept that promise.

If this is the first... I'lll never do that again promise... .then maybe you go with that... .

Thoughts?

[waverider]

An alcohol problem is one where it impairs other more important judgement, in particular when the absence of it cause the person to think about it, or seek it, above other priorities.

Its possible to have a problem with alcohol without being an alcoholic.

I never had a problem with not drinking, but once on a roll usually stayed too late and at times was inconsiderate. It created problems, but I never craved it. There is always an excuse, and it causes "excuse creep". Boundaries get tested and moved.

You cant stop him or change him.

Your job is to help him join the dots between interlinking issues and consequences, and also to prevent yourself being messed up as a result of his actions. This includes driving yourself nuts trying to get explanations out of him or counting his drinks.

[formflier]

 

And... full disclosure here... .I've tied a few on in my day as well.

Inconsiderate is exactly the word to describe telling you he will be right there... .and yet stay to keep on drinking.

An alternate tactic... .might be to support him in this area... .if he supports you in other areas.  So... .maybe you drive and handle the safety aspect... .that is what he wants.  And he makes some changes in the r/s that you want.

However... ."dealmaking" with pwBPD can be problematic.  Don't be too specific about the results or actions you want in return.  More on broad changes.

[Cat21]

Inconsiderate is exactly the word to describe telling you he will be right there... .and yet stay to keep on drinking.

An alternate tactic... .might be to support him in this area... .if he supports you in other areas.  So... .maybe you drive and handle the safety aspect... .that is what he wants.  And he makes some changes in the r/s that you want.

Thanks for the feedback. I've been meaning to talk to him about the drinking and driving for the last few nights, but I've been in bed super early. Totally exhausted this week. I'm planning to talk to him about it tonight. Apparently, he admitted to his friend (the one he was drinking with) that he was drunk and shouldn't have driven home. He didn't admit this to me, but perhaps he will when we talk tonight.

If we go out together, I almost always drive. I'd rather know that I'm responsible for getting us home safely than drink as much as I like.

My T has a few MC recs for me and I'm working on gathering a list. In addition to talking about the drinking and driving, I'm going to bring up going to MC again tonight. Here's hoping it's a productive conversation that doesn't lead to an argument... .

[waverider]

Inconsiderate is exactly the word to describe telling you he will be right there... .and yet stay to keep on drinking.

An alternate tactic... .might be to support him in this area... .if he supports you in other areas.  So... .maybe you drive and handle the safety aspect... .that is what he wants.  And he makes some changes in the r/s that you want.

Thanks for the feedback. I've been meaning to talk to him about the drinking and driving for the last few nights, but I've been in bed super early. Totally exhausted this week. I'm planning to talk to him about it tonight. Apparently, he admitted to his friend (the one he was drinking with) that he was drunk and shouldn't have driven home. He didn't admit this to me, but perhaps he will when we talk tonight.

If we go out together, I almost always drive. I'd rather know that I'm responsible for getting us home safely than drink as much as I like.

My T has a few MC recs for me and I'm working on gathering a list. In addition to talking about the drinking and driving, I'm going to bring up going to MC again tonight. Here's hoping it's a productive conversation that doesn't lead to an argument... .

Focus on how you can get around it potentially happening again rather than trying to extract a confession or apology out of him for past behavior.

[Rapt Reader]

Focus on how you can get around it potentially happening again rather than trying to extract a confession or apology out of him for past behavior.

Yes! This ^^^^^^^^

A much more satisfying, attainable goal in the long run... .