patience

[maxsterling]

My God this r/s requires a ton of patience.  Even Job himself would wither over time... .

Here i am, in the middle of a vacation, trying to live in the moment and enjoy myself, trying to sidestep her attempts to project into the future and live in the past without invalidating and bringing about the inevitable dysregulation.

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[KateCat]

There's an eloquent post on September 25, 2014 to one of your threads by nightmoves. (Or maybe it's by Job himself .) I hope you can read that post again. Because time is the element we old-timers would love to be able to convey to a guy who has 1.5 years of experience at this.

[christoff522]

My God this r/s requires a ton of patience.  Even Job himself would wither over time... .

When Job's wife was telling him to curse God and die, he told her she was talking foolishness.

Max, trying to validate all the time is just sacrificing yourself for the sake of peace and quiet. Just strongly tell her to stfu, don't be rude, just be completely sure of yourself. Remember that a BPD needs discipline just like any child. She may run off screaming "I hate you", but don't chase her, leave her to it. She'll be back. You can't always be validating at the diminishment of your own wants and needs.

[KateCat]

You can't always be validating at the diminishment of your own wants and needs.

You just can't.

[Grey Kitty]

... .trying to sidestep her attempts to project into the future and live in the past without invalidating and bringing about the inevitable dysregulation.

Remember, invalidating things happen, and sometimes invalidating things need to be said. You can package them for better reception (SET, for example), but sometimes you simply need to say something invalidating.

However many, many, many invalidating things don't need to be said at all, so not JADE'ing is a huge win.

I found that when I knew I had the boundaries to step out of the dysregulation, and not be subject to it, I was slowly able to tame my fear of it. That made a huge difference. I was able to support my wife, in ways other than being her emotional punching bag.

I hope the remainder of your vacation is relatively peaceful!

 GK

[flowerpath]

My God this r/s requires a ton of patience.  Even Job himself would wither over time... .

I totally, totally get that.   It’s exhausting.  Sometimes when the comments are just plain irritating - not offensive in any way, but very reflective of a mental disorder - I have to just shut my mouth and grit my teeth.  And then in my mind I shake my head and move on... . 

Hang in there, maxsterling.

[nightmoves]

Hi Max... .

I actually HAD  to go back and READ my post to you of Sept 25th (refereed to by KateCat)

Man... .it almost made ME cry... .;-)

(sad)

Hey - I feel the same if not more emphatic now.

Look - here is the thing... .I had NO idea BPD even existed.  or certainly, if even a casual reading of it in some textbook at some point... .did not really understand it nor think I needed to.

I will say something else though... .IF I had heard people talk about what they are dealing with ... .when they have a loved one with it... .I would have thought that was COMPLETELY made up. Fiction.

And to give you and idea of where it goes after years of it...

EACH day ... .that i learn and accept more and more of it... .I get a bit better... (or at LEAST able to see it clearer)

And guess what... .the HORROR of actually seeing with even slightly normalized eyes... .is astounding... .and incredibly debilitating.

Most days I just wonder... .WHY? WHY... .am I in this. What wrong door did I walk into to?

AND the most horrifying part... .WHY cant we JUST lead a normal and happy life together?

Just calm. Happy. In the moment.

Because ... .SHE CANNOT.

You HAVE to HEAR this... .no MATTER WHAT YOU DO.

HOW MUCH YOU BEND>

HOW MUCH BLAME YOU TAKE>

HOW KIND,CARING, SUPPORTIVE AND AFFECTIONATE you will be.

SHE - CANNOT FIND HER WAY TO THAT PLACE.

I realize it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to grasp.

It has been for me for many many years.

I have had about 275 people tell em "it;s NOT about you"... .but I did not believe them deep down.

Part of it is that I REFUSED to accept that the love of my life... .who I adored... .and was my match... .was disturbed.

SO the equation was... .

1. She does some incredibly irrational thing

2. I try to press for UNDERSTANDING

3, SHE RAGES AT ME!

4. I try to press for UNDERSTANDING

5. She says that I (ME) am to blame (pick any hundred reasons... .)

6. I am shocked. Hurt. upside down.

7. I then BLAME ME.

WHY?

Because I am holding FIRM that she is OK. Normal> The girl still of my dreams. The one who I was SO happy with SO ling ago.

SO - if I refuse to see her as troubled.

THEN - (equation) ... .I MUST actually be to blame or the fault reason she is acting this way.

The RAGES and ABUSE at me ... .certainly did not help.

So I am goign to share something with you... .

I DREAMED of someday going on incredible vacations together.

US, Our family... .

Well, I worked my ass off for many years... .and got very lucky that one path resulted in our going on truly incredible journeys - to unbelievable places... .

And ... .the wound up being the most DIFFICULT and ACHING weeks of my life. Just painful to be in paradise... .with a wife who I truly loved... .and wanted to be close to ... .and could not.

On each of those vacations... .her BPD (did not even know it was that back then) would REAR up... .and I found myself being even MORE shut out. Would wake t preposterous ... .almost made up RAGE/Anger... .or simple irrationality.

She would rage at the family as a whole.

Lock herself in the room. It was JUST terrible.

And ... .I would remember happier days. Feel SO sad for myself. (rare for me to do that). So sad for my family.

JUST Awful.

Being not at home... .being at a wonderful place in the world... .just ACCENTUATED and put all of this in the spotlight for me.

I remember once - when we were heading away to another spot... .and she was raging at me nd doing the so often statement that I should go alone... .and then threw in and take the kids... .

I calmly had something come over me... .was not bravado... .it was like I was saying this on automatic pilot... .

I said... .:I think that is a really good idea"... .

And what happened?

She got rattled. She went - and at the beginning - was almost like things were at the start of our meeting. I was ... .boht shocked... .and a bit uneasy by it all.

But it was really nice.

But I was WARY.

So ... .I was slowly SO happy that maybe we found out way back... .to what used to be... .that I let my guard down... .

and a week later?

BOOM... .with NO provocation. NO semblance of a reason.

She one day was back to a whole other person again.

Rage. Irrationality. Craziness.


SO- I rambled here a bit... .but KateCat reminded me that you are on the edge... .and you being on vacation brought back the MOST horrible feelings and memories. (that is sad - isn't it... .)

Ok... so if you continue down this road... .let me be one of the first ones who are telling you this... .

This is NOT about YOU.

There is NOTHING you can do to change this.

THIS will NOT get better.

THIS will NOT change.

WHAT you fell for - was WHAT you wanted to fall for.

That is ok... .that is right ... .that is noble... .

I FEEL so much for you - I really do.

But what you THOUGHT was there ... .was there... .because SHE saw a PERFECT picture of what SHE wanted.

YOU WERE THAT PERSON.

SHE - however - does NOT have the tools and skills and maturity and emotional stability to HAVE THAT.

YOU will NOT be able to HAVE that with someone who CANNOT.

Look at it this way.

YOU see marriage and life with her as climbing highest peaks. You LOVE her. You want to experience those high peaks together!

SHE... .even if she DID see doing that ... .

Is UNABLE to go to high places... .

CANNOT ... .

She TRIED early on... .

But ultimately she will not ... .CANNOT... .do it.

SO - if yo are prepared to live your life without what YOU saw as together with her... .then that is a BIG necessary step.

But here is the thing... .

WHEN YOU CHANGE.

SHE WILL HATE YOU.

YOU will become - NOT PERFECT.

YOU WILL BECOME... .a "weak guy"... .a whipping post.

The more you wrap yourself in a pretzel to TRY and make this work... .

the more she will paint you black.

AND someday... .

YOU ... .yes YOU!... .wil be told that you RUINED her life.

That SHE WANTED to climnb all these HIGH PEAKS... .but YOU... .(that;s right ) YOU! kept her from doing that.

Does this read as crazy to you? Like I am making it up?

IS it simply BIZARRE?

Well - good.

Now sit down... .It is 100% factual.

And it is only but ONE of dozens of things that will seem absolutely bizarre.

And let me ask you Max.

HOW ... .after YEARS of losing yourself trying to make that marriage work... .HOW will you proceed in life THEN?

WHAT will you - do THEN?

I am SO sorry to be so Blunt.

And this may really piss you off.

But life will go by FAR faster than you can believe.

You will spend thousands of days upside down and trying SO hard.

But the end is already written.

You can simply walk out of that movie... .and across the hall ... .into ANOTHER movie ... .that has you getting to those peaks... .and everything YOU want with someone you love.

I say that - because not long ago ... .I DID simply walk out of a movie that was terrible... .and into one that I did not even know about which was wonderful.

I was surprised that it was a bit difficult to do that.

A lot of me... .I found ... .thought I should just STAY in that movie I went to. paid for it. Had indented to see it. WANTED to see it. THOUGHT I would LIKE it. I actually WATCHED some of it... .I can just get thru the 1.5 hours no matter what.

You see ... .I AM a strong guy. I am a competent and moral guy. I DO the right things. I am able to get though ANYTHING.

But you know what?

Going across the hall - to that other movie... .WAS the right thing. The movie I was in was just NOT going to be what i thought it would be. No matter HOW much I tried.

Max... .10 years from now... .when your FAMILY and KIDS are in that movie with you... .AND... .yo have BUILT that movie... .and the house and life you are in... .

No matter HOW strong you are... .BECAUSE OF HOW STRONG YOU ARE... .I will bet you will find it impossible to walk across the hall.

SO... .think HARD now. FEEL now. BELIEVE yourself NOW.

LOVE yourself NOW.

And the vacation? Go ... .by yourself ... .for a walk... .take in wherever you are. Be HAPPY in that.

Because if you keep down this path... .you will need to be.

[Grey Kitty]

Max (& others),

I read this synopsis:

Part of it is that I REFUSED to accept that the love of my life... .who I adored... .and was my match... .was disturbed.

SO the equation was... .

1. She does some incredibly irrational thing

2. I try to press for UNDERSTANDING

3, SHE RAGES AT ME!

4. I try to press for UNDERSTANDING

5. She says that I (ME) am to blame (pick any hundred reasons... .)

6. I am shocked. Hurt. upside down.

7. I then BLAME ME.

I see this as two people doing something that doesn't work. And you have power to change your responses in this sort of pattern. (Steps #2, #4, #6, and #7)

If you cannot change your role, the pattern won't change, as it is working for the pwBPD... .at least as well as anything else they have done... .

I changed my role. If you follow the lessons here and change your role, it will force your partner to change. Exactly what change is up to your partner. I've seen three general versions so far:

• The pwBPD works things out and recovers. (I count myself very lucky that my wife did so as quickly as she did!)



• The pwBPD's rages go away pretty completely, but the disorder stays.



• The pwBPD cannot handle this, and ends the r/s... .often with as much drama as they can muster.

[maxsterling]

Well, heading home today.  Thanks for the advice, everyone.  Ive been spending the week biting my tongue and avoiding any potential dysregulation while on vacation.  This is not the time or the place.  There was one incident where she blamed the gps giving wrong directions on me.  I nearly asked to be let out of the car in a very industrial area.   It was far from the perfect vacation, but not as bad as i feared.  I learned many of her issues are foo related-her whole family is loud and mean and yells at each other.

[nightmoves]

Max.

I am genuinely glad the vaca went better than you thought it would.

I really am.

I also (and believe me I get this) believe that you are wanting this so bad - we are but white noise.

I truly get that. Been there done that.

[Wrongturn1]

Max... .10 years from now... .when your FAMILY and KIDS are in that movie with you... .AND... .yo have BUILT that movie... .and the house and life you are in... .

No matter HOW strong you are... .BECAUSE OF HOW STRONG YOU ARE... .I will bet you will find it impossible to walk across the hall.

SO... .think HARD now. FEEL now. BELIEVE yourself NOW.

LOVE yourself NOW.

Nightmoves: What an awesome post - thanks for taking the time to write this.  You are 100% spot-on based on my experience of 17 years of marriage to uBPDw.  Hoping Max will go back and re-read your post and that it will become more than just white noise.  At the same time, I realize there are some lessons that can only be taught by the school of hard knocks.

[nightmoves]

Thanks WrongTurn... .

(by the way... .such a powerfully ironic forum name... .;-)

I have followed Max's threads. posts, plight for some time now sporadically.

I truely feel for you Max.

I think so many of us on here do.

I was surprised at the long post to you myself... .but you "trigger" in me so much empathy for you ... .and

you represent a moment in time that SO MANY of us non;s here can never ever have again.

WE cannot go back.

The terrible reality is... .that IF I were you back then... .and had someone like ME writing you all this and TRYING to illustrate it... .I TOO would turn it into white noise.

Remember the movie Alien? Sigourny Weaver? DAMN!... .WHO could resist HER in her panties... .huh?

IF ... .I KNEW that she would soon after you get married - have an ALIEN tearing out of her rib cage - and at YOU ... .

I am pretty sure you would think that is CRAZY... .

(and also sure you would be thinking ... .panties... .Sigourney... .alien?... .worth the risk anyway... .;-)

SO - I get it.

And like Wrong turn - I am SO aware that there is REALLY NO WAY... .this board and articles and books aside... .that anyone can REALLY understand or even BELIEVE this stuff - unless they have had to deal with it first hand.

SO many times I catch myself reading yet another painful and incredible post... .FILLED with pain and fury and absurd and horrifying happenings - and find myself COMPLETELY believing what years ago I would have thought were COMPLETELY made up... .

SO... .anyway... .I want you to udnerstand that It is with GREAT empathy... .and GREAT compassion... .that I write you.

I WANT you to find and have your own Sigourney Weaver in your life. I found and have the same.

BUT... .there are many Sigourneys out there... .I am MORE wanting you to pick one WITHOUT the ALIEN inside her.

Luckily... .and rare... .you have TWO inportant things going for you.

ONE. The alien in her ... .messed up and showed herself early.

TWO. You have found your way to this board - filled with info as to what you are dealing with... .AND warhorses like myself an Wrongturn ... .who made the Sigourny/panty choice/dilemma once and have been dealing with the alien for years now... .

I honestly think you come to this board when things get crazy... .and you then struggle to ameliorate all you hear.

Get it... .been there... .done that.

Just know what you are seeing is real. What we are saying is honest.

And ... .Sigourney ... .panties or no panties... .sure as hell did not look to good when the alien showed up... .

... .and he my freind ... .did not don panties hot panties anymore... .(but that is a whole other story... .;-)

[Wrongturn1]

Luckily... .and rare... .you have TWO inportant things going for you.

ONE. The alien in her ... .messed up and showed herself early.

TWO. You have found your way to this board - filled with info as to what you are dealing with... .AND warhorses like myself an Wrongturn ... .who made the Sigourny/panty choice/dilemma once and have been dealing with the alien for years now... .

Another epic post by Nightmoves here - great analogy about Sigourney and the inner alien. 

While we are doing movie analogies, the quote above about how Max has two important things going for him reminded me of the movie Good Will Hunting, where Ben Affleck tells Will Hunting that he is holding a winning lottery ticket but is too much of a p**** to cash it in, and that the best part of his day is the 10 minutes before he picks up Will Hunting every morning to go to their construction worker jobs and he is hoping that Will would not be there, having cashed his figurative lotto ticket (in this case his rare intellect) and left town.

So to close the loop on the movie analogy, I see Max as a Will Hunting type character.  He possesses a gift that essentially none of the rest of us have (knowledge of BPD prior to making a life-long commitment), and the fact that he is holding off on using that gift is excruciating for the rest of us to watch.

Max is at a crucial juncture, armed with knowledge that could set him free.  That knowledge is as valuable as a winning lottery ticket... .but unless you cash it, it's just a worthless piece of paper.

[nightmoves]

Brilliant WrongTurn.

That is EXACTLY how I feel each time I see a post from Max pop up.

I am indeed hoping we pull up one day and he has "cashed his ticket in"... .

You know... .the really sad thing is how FAST time goes by when dealing with this stuff... .

One seems to be just tryign to find a day of peace... .one week of normality... .

And BOOM 10 years of that have passed.

Then 15... .then... .?

And before you know it... .you gave been working at the construction site for your whole life... .

CASH THE TICKET IN WILL!... .er... .Max... .

As an aside... .someone told me to go read NMMNG ... .I did... .and  could not put it down until I read it page by page cover to cover all at once... .(covered in sweat).

I was reading my life in some ways.

WAS pretty shook up.

The BIGGEST feeling was... .WHY did I not figure this out WAY BACK THEN?

And the reality that ... .the lottery ticket that I did not even KNOW I had... .now that i found it... .is worth FAR less to me now ... .then it would have been then... .

And to cash it now... .may lose more than it gains... .

[KateCat]

I just can't see how to spare Max from next appearing in Shawshank Redemption.

[nightmoves]

Oh MAN... .KateCat... .

I am wondering WHICH person he plays... .;-)

[KateCat]

Now that is one thing that has not yet come to me in a vision.

[hope2727]

"I changed my role. If you follow the lessons here and change your role, it will force your partner to change. Exactly what change is up to your partner. I've seen three general versions so far:

The pwBPD works things out and recovers. (I count myself very lucky that my wife did so as quickly as she did!)

The pwBPD's rages go away pretty completely, but the disorder stays.

The pwBPD cannot handle this, and ends the r/s... .often with as much drama as they can muster.

"

So helpful thank you.

I read all the boards and try to learn from everyone's experiences. But I can't thank you enough for this post. Somehow it sums it up so nicely.

I keep trying to better myself but today I want to reach out to him and cry. Useless I know. He will enjoy that. He did last time. Best to leave him alone to his own journey and keep on mine. If we are meant to meet again we will.

Meanwhile I pray for him. many many many prayers.

[tinkerbellsmom]

Nightmoves post hit me so hard because this is the same way I feel about my daughter, only instead of the "the girl of my dreams" i see her as my precious little angel.  I can't deal with her being "disturbed" (or defective) so it must be something I did.  I think about the fact that she was so perfect and innocent the day I got her.  This is why it is so difficult for me.  It's amazing how similar the feelings are for a child as and for a partner.  The big difference is I really can't divorce my daughter.