Validating the unspoken

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all,

I am totally lost on how to validate a partner when she doesn't say anything. I see tons of articles and examples on how to validate in response to a partner's statement but not really anything on validating emotions when she does not speak.

Yesterday, my wife picked me up from school and I notice that she wasn't in a good mood. At first I didn't say anything because she told me multiple times before that when she is upset or angry to leave her alone (silly me for listening). Then she started to cry and said that I didn't care about her. I had a feeling that she had a bad day with a group of children where she teaches because she was coming from there when she picked me up. Anyway, I told her that I know she is feeling hurt because she felt like I just ignored her by not acknowledging her being visibly upset. So I just tried to validate and not bring up that she told me before to give her time when she is in those situations. So she wanted me to get her home as quickly as possible because she didn't want to have a meltdown in the car (you know, out in public). So there was a slower car in the right lane that I wanted to pass so it wouldn't take too long to get home. I got raged at for going in the other lane (I partially knew that it was because she may have been afraid of people seeing her cry as we passed them but figured I was going fast enough so pass the couple of cars before getting back into the right lane. Heading into the parking lot at our apartment complex, she got upset because I was going to park in range of other people that were exiting the car (ironic thing is that she would have had to gotten out of the car and be seen by them as she headed toward the complex no matter where I had parked). Needless to say not a very good night for us. I work overnight so we just left it at that.

Next morning as I was done work, sent a text saying "how are you doing?" and got a text back of "leave me the f*** alone!" Okay. Got home and didn't take and she left for work a few minutes later. Fast forward to the afternoon where she comes home, grabs the laptop (coping mechanisms of burying herself in watching shows to ignore the pain) and heads into the bedroom. So I gave her about 30 minutes of time to herself and then went in there to try and talk. I told her that I understood that she felt more hurt than anger and that she must have felt like I didn't care about her. She pulled the covers over her head in shame (the night before, she also knocked over some things in our apartment so I bet some embarassment from that as well). She didn't respond for like ten minutes and then asked me "what did I want?" and I told her that I just wanted to be there for her. After a few minutes, she said that if I didn't have anything else to say that I should leave. Now before, I would ask her what is going on inside of her/how is she feeling and she would reply that it was a stupid question or that I shouldn't try to be her therapist (I am actually a graduate student studying marriage and family therapy). So she wanted me to leave the room also because our dog was getting destructive with his attention seeking behaviors. Came back an hour later and she hid herself under the covers and I tried to just sit close by her. She didn't want me near and looking at her which I backed away and looked down at the floor (still wasn't good enough) and then I was just at a lost for what to validate since she wouldn't say anything else. In the past, whenever I would try to get her to talk, I get chastised for it or accused of not looking beneath the surface. Needless to say she was getting upset because I didn't say anything. She would accuse me of not showing love (hard to do when she constantly kicks me out the room), being silent (when half the time she tells me to stfu when trying to validate) or anything that is the opposite of what I am doing.

We apologized to each other and this night has been better. I just needed to vent and get some advice on validating the lack of verbal responses from a partner. Thanks for listening!

[Determined1]

Hi all,

I am totally lost on how to validate a partner when she doesn't say anything. I see tons of articles and examples on how to validate in response to a partner's statement but not really anything on validating emotions when she does not speak.

Yesterday, my wife picked me up from school and I notice that she wasn't in a good mood. At first I didn't say anything because she told me multiple times before that when she is upset or angry to leave her alone (silly me for listening). Then she started to cry and said that I didn't care about her. I had a feeling that she had a bad day with a group of children where she teaches because she was coming from there when she picked me up. Anyway, I told her that I know she is feeling hurt because she felt like I just ignored her by not acknowledging her being visibly upset. So I just tried to validate and not bring up that she told me before to give her time when she is in those situations. So she wanted me to get her home as quickly as possible because she didn't want to have a meltdown in the car (you know, out in public). So there was a slower car in the right lane that I wanted to pass so it wouldn't take too long to get home. I got raged at for going in the other lane (I partially knew that it was because she may have been afraid of people seeing her cry as we passed them but figured I was going fast enough so pass the couple of cars before getting back into the right lane. Heading into the parking lot at our apartment complex, she got upset because I was going to park in range of other people that were exiting the car (ironic thing is that she would have had to gotten out of the car and be seen by them as she headed toward the complex no matter where I had parked). Needless to say not a very good night for us. I work overnight so we just left it at that.

Next morning as I was done work, sent a text saying "how are you doing?" and got a text back of "leave me the f*** alone!" Okay. Got home and didn't take and she left for work a few minutes later. Fast forward to the afternoon where she comes home, grabs the laptop (coping mechanisms of burying herself in watching shows to ignore the pain) and heads into the bedroom. So I gave her about 30 minutes of time to herself and then went in there to try and talk. I told her that I understood that she felt more hurt than anger and that she must have felt like I didn't care about her. She pulled the covers over her head in shame (the night before, she also knocked over some things in our apartment so I bet some embarassment from that as well). She didn't respond for like ten minutes and then asked me "what did I want?" and I told her that I just wanted to be there for her. After a few minutes, she said that if I didn't have anything else to say that I should leave. Now before, I would ask her what is going on inside of her/how is she feeling and she would reply that it was a stupid question or that I shouldn't try to be her therapist (I am actually a graduate student studying marriage and family therapy). So she wanted me to leave the room also because our dog was getting destructive with his attention seeking behaviors. Came back an hour later and she hid herself under the covers and I tried to just sit close by her. She didn't want me near and looking at her which I backed away and looked down at the floor (still wasn't good enough) and then I was just at a lost for what to validate since she wouldn't say anything else. In the past, whenever I would try to get her to talk, I get chastised for it or accused of not looking beneath the surface. Needless to say she was getting upset because I didn't say anything. She would accuse me of not showing love (hard to do when she constantly kicks me out the room), being silent (when half the time she tells me to stfu when trying to validate) or anything that is the opposite of what I am doing.

We apologized to each other and this night has been better. I just needed to vent and get some advice on validating the lack of verbal responses from a partner. Thanks for listening!

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[takingandsending]

Hi Determined1.

I am sorry that you and your wife are going through such a tough time. It sounds like you are caught in the push/pull of BPD. Come closer, get away. I once posted a description from a woman who was recovering from BPD, and as she described it, her utter lack of boundaries to define a self caused her to painfully long for someone to define her and then react in absolute fear that that person was coming too close. The description is here: www.heretohelp.bc.ca/visions/borderline-personality-disorder-vol7/recurring-themes-BPD-recovery

I hope this might help you to understand what is going on when your wife does that, and maybe that can be a starting place for empathy and validation. Maybe something simple like, "I can see you are really afraid right now, and if I felt alone and that you couldn't understand me, I would feel afraid too. I'd like to hear about your day when you are able." Then disengage. Don't expect anything from her. She has to choose to want to lower her conflict, but you have done your part to reach out. If she attacks or say stfu, just offer a simple validation like, "I can see you are in pain." Whatever you do, don't Justify Argue Defend Explain, as that will only heighten her sense of being invalidated.

I really feel for you. I have been and sometimes still am where you are right now. It's very lonely and helpless feeling. It is really wonderful that you have so much compassion and caring for your wife. I will admit that over the years of being shut down, raged at and blamed, I have tightened the grip on my caring and watched it dry up. I pray that you don't make the same mistake. So, right now, it is really, really important for you to start understanding your own role in your RS - how you came to be in the RS, what your needs are and where they are and are not being met, and how you feel during your wife's dysregulations about yourself.

Reading your history, you have gone through some pretty intense episodes, so can I ask you, do you feel in some ways responsible for your wife? What do you do to take care of yourself when she shuts you out or lashes out at you? There are a lot of great tools in the Lessons on this page. I have yet to wade through them in entirety, but even the small amount that I have applied is helping me to gain some understanding of my role and how I can be much more loving to myself and in turn to my uBPDw.

Hang in there, and keep posting. And don't give up. As you improve your role in the dynamic, it may lighten up some of the pervasive difficulty that is so common in relationships with pwBPD. 

[AnnaK]

I am still new to this validation technique (but it's already making a lot of difference), but I would validate the upset silence like this: "you look hurt." (no judgement, no emotion, same tone as you'd say "this is a tree".

It would open a way to discussion

Also once I validated the "go out of my room!" like this: "I am not going because you don't want me to go".

[Determined1]

Sorry that it took me a while to respond. Thank you so much for your responses! I just needed some venting and unfortunately for me, this is one of the few resources that I have. Nonetheless, it is a great one and I really need to start posting more often. I am trying to break the habit of doing and dealing with everything myself. I am slowly but surely learning that the hard way.

To answer your question, yes in some ways I feel responsible for her. More like my part and role in the relationship but sometimes it can get to where I feel more responsible than I really need to be. I am sure that in a way, it probably enables her actions because of inconsistent boundaries. To take care of myself, I do a lot of reminding that it is not personal and self validation.

[takingandsending]

Determined1,

I have been working through Randi Kreger's "Stop Walking On Eggshells" workbook, and for a non-BP a common response is to feel like you can heal your partner's illness through learning about it and knowing what to do better. The good thing about the resources in this site is that they instruct us to focus on ourselves because that's where we can make changes. The rest is out of our control.

I do encourage you to be an advocate and supportive husband for your wife, but most importantly, to become familiar with your own needs and emotions as you are navigating these waters. Losing that compass makes everything much less workable.

Please keep posting and let us know how things are going for you.

[Determined1]

Thanks takingandsending! I have read that book a while ago along with "I Hate You Don't Leave Me" and "How To Love Someone With Borderline Personality Disorder". I do get stuck in the FOG and that sabotages the time that could be spent on myself. It is hard not to just throw in the towel sometimes. I am just tired of feeling stuck.

[takingandsending]

Determined, have you used the SWOE workbook, or just read the book? My T recommended just the workbook. She felt that getting in touch with stuff that I had been pushing down for so long and allowing to build resentment was essential, whether I chose to stay in the RS or leave. I am sorry that you are feeling the effects of the FOG. It's terrible. I had to fight off heading into a FOG with my wife tonight. It's tiring being on point for so long. So try to take care of yourself in this process of learning and changing. You are worth it.

[Determined1]

Oh I was unaware that there was even an SWOE workbook. I just read the main book. Yes the FOG is so debilitating and difficult to fight off. The buried emotions and resentment is constantly creeping up trying to take over. I will definitely check out the workbook as I know it is important to get my own life on track if I go going to be consistent in trying to help her. Thanks takingandsending!

[nightmoves]

Taking/sending... .

Read your posts on this thread a couple times. Very poignant.

I am in a very similar situation to Determined and yourself.

I was struck by you comment that SWOE book showcased that many non's in dealing with BPD in thier spiuses feel that they are the repsonsible party to help effect a great change - and that IF ... .just IF... .we can leaern more and more aboutthe disorder ... .we can then unlock the riddles and thus showcase the path and all will be fine.

I too - find that has been my misguided approach. Like Determined... .for SO long... .I hadb NO idea about BPD ... .nor... .was aware what the HECK was even going on. The rages, irrationality, hate, anger... .etc...

was like a terrible nightmare.

When someone suggested to learn or read about BPD... .it was a watershed moment. SO MANY riddles and mysteries were unlocked. It was as though I was reading about MY situation on the pages. I remember a chill came over me.

So... now... .here I am. Have dug into learning - working - reading - using skills... .for over a year now.

And ... .while it has helped me in may ways... .the reality of BPD has stayed.

I trigger -  far less. I am affected by the irrationality - far less. I accept the blame - far less.

I have NOT lost the tremendous empathy and compassion and love for my wife.

BUT - I find I am empty. Sad. Maybe a bit depressed.

Because I haev found, read, understood... .that THIS may be all I get.

That the BPD is likely to ALWAYS be here.

THat it is VERY hard to see it changed.

It is IMPOSSIBLE... .without HER seeing it and wanting it to change.

And... .like SO many others... .she REFUSES to even TALK about her role.

She REFUSES to be introspective.

Her path is ... .to simply ... .have me there. Wants me there.

OVER there... .

I am either TOO close... .or not far enough AWAY.

There is almost NO affection.

NO -sharing. NO planing. NO connection.

Has the tenor and tone in the home changed? Has her rages lessened?

Yes. But that is ONLY because of SO much that I have learned and do to create a pathway ... .that she is not triggered... .AND when she is... .I am VERY attuned to seeing it coming... and make VERY sure that I am NOT the target... .and I do NOT run to engage and "try and help".

The strange thing is... .in an odd way... .I then become further and further invisible. Alone. Empty.

I think it is because I want SO much more., And ultimately ... .perhaps THiS is all she wants. Or all she can do.

Sorry to be a bit morose.

But the thread struck a nerve

[Determined1]

I feel your pain nightmoves. It can be really scary to think if this is the best your relationship can do. You want improvement and she may be stuck with limited growth. Your happiness is important also and it's hard to evaluate a relationship and wonder what else can be done without her participation.

[nightmoves]

EXACTLY Determined.

EXACTLY.

I wonder WHY is it that a pwBPD SO OFTEN just REFUSES to haev a dialog with a partner?

Why?

There is a willing - positive - supportive spouse or partner almost begging to discuss and better UNDERSTAND... .

yet they REFUSE.

WHY would they? WHY would anyone?

When I ask - it is usually when I have reached the maximum or turning the other cheek, beign crapped upon, disrespected.

It is when the CONTEMPT is coming at me just from sayin g "good morning"... .

My ONLY want at that point ... .is to UNDERSTAND what is driving this SIMPLY so I can NOT live in this negative and dismissive place.

BUT ... .nothing... .no talk... .no explanation... .jut continuation of the ugliness... .and ADD TO IT... .the ANGER for me WANTING TO TALK... .

[Determined1]

I am currently in this type of situation for the past week. I am currently at B&N taking a temporary break as she was out of control with hitting me. Before that, I was accused of being just like her parents in leaving her alone and ignoring her. Despite my attempts to talk to her daily, greeting her when I see her (she ignored), asked multiple times what was going on (refusal to speak), maintaining a friendly attitude towards her and respecting her wishes for alone time.

Idk, I still think it is extreme shame and embarrassment for them to talk about it. It just reminds them of their behavior, intentions and feelings. I have never (maybe once or twice in times of rock bottom weakness) criticize my wife's feelings, intentions and I understood her behavior (although I don't condone or accept it). I know there are periods when we would talk about certain things and then she would not want to talk about it anymore because it makes her feel terrible or that she is about to cry. It is kind of like a waiting game for them to have the courage and willingness to face their feelings and discuss them openly.