Hard day... Cont'd...

[MaroonLiquid]

here is my last topic... .https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=234588.msg12509700#new

Formflier, should I confront what I see as anxiety around her trip and me not going or wait for her to contact me?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

So I texted and asked if she was having anxiety about the trip using SET and brought up something she said to reflect my position.  She said, "That the comment was said at a different time (it wasn't, she lied) and said that she had none (anxiety, stress etc) at all and that she was looking forward to getting away.  Rrrrriiiiggghhttt... .Anyway, I just said, ok thanks for being honest.  I feel anxiety this afternoon.  :)idn't bring up the boundary I set regarding the insurance last night, but I want to ask her, "Help me to understand why we haven't spent any time together in 4-1/2 weeks."  She won't respond... .I'm just missing her today again.  It's like she has no feelings and emotionless!  :)oes she not miss me?  Curious as to why she has avoided my attempts to get together.

[MaroonLiquid]

We made an appointment for couples therapy in three weeks and they specialize in BPD.  She doesn't know it.

I asked if she wanted to have lunch on Friday and she said she already had plans.  I asked if she had any time this week to get together.  She asked, "for what" and I said, "so we could spend some time together."  She responded that she doesn't want to spend time with me.  I said, "Ok, suit yourself, have a good week".  Geez... .Gotta admit, I walked right into that one.  That cut, but didn't show it and stayed steady.  Amazing sometimes how deep what they say cuts.  Even when you start to get healthy and set boundaries.  Sucks... .

[formflier]

should I confront 

No... ."confrontation" and BPD don't work well together... .

Confrontation and boundaries are very different.  Boundary is when they have put something in your face... .or "done something"... .then you protect yourself.

Confrontation is like you trying to "do something" to them for some sort of misdeed or bad thought.

Boundary is making them "confront" themselves with a "well... .that didn't work to get the reaction I wanted... so what now... " internal thought.

Confrontation will most likely result in a "why is he being mean to me... ." internal thought process.

Hoping everyone sees a HUGE difference in these two ways looking at things...

[formflier]

 Geez... .Gotta admit, I walked right into that one.

You pitched her a fast ball... .and she knocked it out of the park.  STOP PITCHING

    Even when you start to get healthy and set boundaries.

I think it would be wise to step back and look at your text and emails for last several weeks.

Ask yourself... .":)oes it appear she is "being chased"... .or pursued... ."

Sometimes if a pwBPD gets that feeling... .they will "push away".  Once they stop feeling pursued... .they get some abandonment fear and they want to "pull you back in". 

I'm thinking your goal is to get her to the point where she wants to pull you back... .and then you can really work some lessons and strategies... .to help avoid and lessen the next "push away" cycle.

Make sense?  Thoughts?

[MaroonLiquid]

When I said "confront", I meant approach the subject.  I am going to step back in a major way.  When I do that, she does come around.  It makes perfect sense.  Now, as far as counseling, what can I expect in the first several sessions?   Will she try and make it all about me and my issues?  How does a therapist deal with a "high-conflict couple" usually?

[formflier]

When I said "confront", I meant approach the subject.  I am going to step back in a major way.  When I do that, she does come around.  It makes perfect sense.  Now, as far as counseling, what can I expect in the first several sessions?   Will she try and make it all about me and my issues?  How does a therapist deal with a "high-conflict couple" usually?

Have you guys done counseling before?  I wouldn't expect much... .just showing up and discussing things would be a high expectation.

Maybe a joint session or two... .then some individual... .then back together.

What "style" of therapy are you going to try?

[MaroonLiquid]

When I said "confront", I meant approach the subject.  I am going to step back in a major way.  When I do that, she does come around.  It makes perfect sense.  Now, as far as counseling, what can I expect in the first several sessions?   Will she try and make it all about me and my issues?  How does a therapist deal with a "high-conflict couple" usually?

Have you guys done counseling before?  I wouldn't expect much... .just showing up and discussing things would be a high expectation.

Maybe a joint session or two... .then some individual... .then back together.

What "style" of therapy are you going to try?

We have not done counseling together before.  I have my own therapist who specializes in PD's, but she won't see him.  Insisted on a "neutral third party".    Anyway, this therapist seems to focus on DBT style of therapy.  What do you meant "just showing up and discussing things would be a high expectation"?

[formflier]

  What do you meant "just showing up and discussing things would be a high expectation"?

First... .you should be agreeable to go... .but don't seem excited... or that it is a big or critical thing to you.

a pwBPD could exploit that... .or use it to argue.

Tons of stories on these boards about people backing out of counseling. 

I've had my wife storm out several times.  I've had her dominate a session and it be all about her feelings.

Even today... .I had a MC... .I wanted to talk about money... .we never got to that.  We talked about a misunderstanding that lead to hurt feelings this past weekend.  She had a mild dysregulation... .MC did good work redirecting...

So... priority one for you... .get her in the door.  Don't be shocked if she reschedules... gets lost... .forgot she had another appointment... .etc etc.

Don't react if it gets rescheduled.

Then... .don't feel like she must do "xyz" for it to be a good session.  Just her there participating is good.

These things build on themselves.

[MaroonLiquid]

  What do you meant "just showing up and discussing things would be a high expectation"?

First... .you should be agreeable to go... .but don't seem excited... or that it is a big or critical thing to you.

a pwBPD could exploit that... .or use it to argue.

Tons of stories on these boards about people backing out of counseling. 

I've had my wife storm out several times.  I've had her dominate a session and it be all about her feelings.

Even today... .I had a MC... .I wanted to talk about money... .we never got to that.  We talked about a misunderstanding that lead to hurt feelings this past weekend.  She had a mild dysregulation... .MC did good work redirecting...

So... priority one for you... .get her in the door.  Don't be shocked if she reschedules... gets lost... .forgot she had another appointment... .etc etc.

Don't react if it gets rescheduled.

Then... .don't feel like she must do "xyz" for it to be a good session.  Just her there participating is good.

These things build on themselves.

Thanks for the info... .I haven't put too much emphasis on it, just told her who we were seeing, and asked her what her availability was... .

Right now, silence between us after she told me she doesn't want to spend time with me (probably because I set the boundary of getting together about insurance and she knows that seeing her is important to me... .CONTROL FREAK).  I'm fine with that.  She doesn't get a rise out of me or a negative reaction anymore which I'm proud of myself for... .

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm thinking your goal is to get her to the point where she wants to pull you back... .and then you can really work some lessons and strategies... .to help avoid and lessen the next "push away" cycle.

Make sense?  [/quote]
This is exactly what I'm trying to accomplish, but it seems that when we get "too close", she dysregulates about something... .

[formflier]

This is exactly what I'm trying to accomplish, but it seems that when we get "too close", she dysregulates about something... .

My vibe... .from reading your posts is that when you get close... .there is an element of wanting to get even closer... .or she perceives "chasing"... .

Just be thinking about that.

Be more nonchalant about being close with her... .

[MaroonLiquid]

This is exactly what I'm trying to accomplish, but it seems that when we get "too close", she dysregulates about something... .

My vibe... .from reading your posts is that when you get close... .there is an element of wanting to get even closer... .or she perceives "chasing"... .

Just be thinking about that.

Be more nonchalant about being close with her... .

Explain "be more nonchalant".  Son't be so quick to make plans with her?  Not be together as much?  No intimacy?  Go home at a reasonable hour?  That kind of stuff?

[formflier]

 

To me nonchalant means you are fine with things... either way... .

[MaroonLiquid]

To me nonchalant means you are fine with things... either way... .

Thanks formflier... .That's what it means to me too.  Anyway, Day 3 of not contacting her.  I believe she will either contact me today or tomorrow.  My day today is filled with helping someone move... .Hooray... .I have so much excitement about it... .  I would rather be with my family, but oh well.  Quick question.  I worry about what my kids (her 3 by a previous marriage but they call me dad as theirs is a deadbeat and refuses to see them or take care of them. I have 3 by a previous marriage also) think about our situation.  I know she has lied to them about me.  I hate this part of it.  She is destroying them and my relationship with them through this.  I fell like she is making them believe that there is no one to trust in this world but her.  She has told me not to contact them so I don't.  Don't want to get a restraining order or be accused of something.  What do you think they think of me and our situation?

[formflier]

What do you think they think of me and our situation?

I wouldn't spend anymore time or energy thinking about your r/s with the kids.  You don't control that... and that r/s is not the problem... .it is a side issue.  I'm not saying it is not important... .

The issue here is the primary relationship... .you and her.  If you guys work that out... .then the r/s with the kids will come along just fine.  If you guys don't work out your primary r/s (in other word... .get a divorce)... .then you will need to address access to those kids in that settlement.

That's a tough situation to be in... .but I recommend recognizing that... .and recognizing what power you have... .and don't have... and move on.

Fighting against something that you don't control will lead to frustration... .and disappointment.

[MaroonLiquid]

What do you think they think of me and our situation?

I wouldn't spend anymore time or energy thinking about your r/s with the kids.  You don't control that... and that r/s is not the problem... .it is a side issue.  I'm not saying it is not important... .

The issue here is the primary relationship... .you and her.  If you guys work that out... .then the r/s with the kids will come along just fine.  If you guys don't work out your primary r/s (in other word... .get a divorce)... .then you will need to address access to those kids in that settlement.

That's a tough situation to be in... .but I recommend recognizing that... .and recognizing what power you have... .and don't have... and move on.

Fighting against something that you don't control will lead to frustration... .and disappointment.

Good point!  Anyway, got a call from a auto shop that has always fixed our vehicles and the car she has needs $600 worth of work.  She has no car for the moment.  Surprised she hasn't called me about it.  Oh well, these are things that are happening to her that she didn't think about when she "kicked me out" 3-1/2 months ago.  I guess she needs to taste her choices.  I hate it for her, because that much with our combined incomes was not easy to adjust for, but now... .A part of me wants to text her and ask her if she needs anything, but I won't.  I don't want to enable her.  If she needs anything, she knows how to get a hold of me.  It's still hard!

[Grey Kitty]

Anyway, got a call from a auto shop that has always fixed our vehicles and the car she has needs $600 worth of work... .

Are your finances separate in a clear way right now? Is her car clearly her problem to be paid for out of her income? (If they are NOT that clear... .I highly recommend you clarify them right away)

You could send her a quick email saying that you got a call from the shop about her car, on the chance that they decided to contact you (the guy) instead of her (the owner).

A part of me wants to text her and ask her if she needs anything, but I won't.  I don't want to enable her.  If she needs anything, she knows how to get a hold of me.  It's still hard!

You got that one right!

[MaroonLiquid]

Anyway, got a call from a auto shop that has always fixed our vehicles and the car she has needs $600 worth of work... .

Are your finances separate in a clear way right now? Is her car clearly her problem to be paid for out of her income? (If they are NOT that clear... .I highly recommend you clarify them right away)

You could send her a quick email saying that you got a call from the shop about her car, on the chance that they decided to contact you (the guy) instead of her (the owner).

A part of me wants to text her and ask her if she needs anything, but I won't.  I don't want to enable her.  If she needs anything, she knows how to get a hold of me.  It's still hard!

You got that one right!

Yes, our finances are separate and clear.  Easy to be reintegrated, but definitely clear as to who is responsible.

[MaroonLiquid]

So it's been 5 days since any communication whatsoever with my wife.  Starting to miss her, but don't want to break.  I think she thinks I'll contact her first.  I am starting to hope she texts me.   . Much stronger than I used to be.  Really wonder if she is even thinking about me?... Oh well.  Can't control that.  Can only work on myself.  A part of me thinks if I would not have told her that she needed to meet me regarding insurance (told her first that I would keep her on my insurance) that she would still be talking to me... .Why am I doing this to myself?

[formflier]

.Why am I doing this to myself?

Because you care about here and the r/s... and the kids involved.

Hang in there...      

You are also strong enough now to realize that in the past... the "caring" has gotten you in trouble.  Use the wisdom that you have gained to hold to what you know is the right thing to do.

[MaroonLiquid]

Have really struggled today with my emotions today.  Been an emotional wreck (grieving I guess) and had a very hard day... .Realizing Sunday's are hard because it was always a family day for us.  We would got to church, go home, watch football and take a nap as a couple.  Doing what I know is the right thing to change my relationship for the better has been difficult, but does at make this any easier.   :'(

[123Phoebe]

Have really struggled today with my emotions today.  Been an emotional wreck (grieving I guess) and had a very hard day... .Realizing Sunday's are hard because it was always a family day for us.  We would got to church, go home, watch football and take a nap as a couple.  Doing what I know is the right thing to change my relationship for the better has been difficult, but does at make this any easier.   :'(

Aw, this stuff is hard, MaroonLiquid   Our emotions can really do a number on us.

My day today is filled with helping someone move... .Hooray... .I have so much excitement about it... . 

Anything else (other than her) that gets your juices flowing?  This might be a good time to book that skydiving lesson , or learn a foreign language, break out the telescope... .  Find something that speaks to you and you alone, something that excites you that you can lose yourself with interest in

[MaroonLiquid]

Anything else (other than her) that gets your juices flowing?  This might be a good time to book that skydiving lesson , or learn a foreign language, break out the telescope... .  Find something that speaks to you and you alone, something that excites you that you can lose yourself with interest in

Really wanting to go hit the golfball again.  Love golf.  Will probably go do that later in the week.  I miss it.  My emotions are better today.  Just realizing Sundays are tough right now.  I've gotten through it.

[123Phoebe]

Anything else (other than her) that gets your juices flowing?  This might be a good time to book that skydiving lesson , or learn a foreign language, break out the telescope... .  Find something that speaks to you and you alone, something that excites you that you can lose yourself with interest in

Really wanting to go hit the golfball again.  Love golf.  Will probably go do that later in the week.  I miss it.  My emotions are better today.  Just realizing Sundays are tough right now.  I've gotten through it.

Glad to hear you're feeling better   How fun, looking forward to golf!  Yay!

[MaroonLiquid]

Yes, golf is fun!  Anyway, I'm starting to realize that pwBPD must have a box on the shelf that they stuff everything into that is too difficult to deal with.  Otherwise, how can you not talk to your husband of almost 6 years for days/weeks and not see him for weeks/months at a time.  It's ridiculous.  I'm hoping her mother being in town will do her some good.  Not expecting too much as she "doesn't want to get involved" (enabler in her life), however, my wife is an emotional wreck and maybe she will see that.

[MaroonLiquid]

So today is day 6 of no contact between us.  Not emotional today, just getting harder and harder to not contact her.  I think I'm afraid if I don't, she will think I have abandoned her, but if I do, it will continue the "control issues" she has.  Fine line here and don't want to cross either... .Want her to "taste her choices" and let her fend for herself, but not in a vindictive way... .Sorry if I'm repeating myself... .Just hard

[MissyM]

So today is day 6 of no contact between us.  Not emotional today, just getting harder and harder to not contact her.

Hmm, so wonder what the advice is for this?  When my dBPDh and I weren't really talking and he was extremely erratic (while separated), the therapists suggested I reach out to him and just say loving things.  Not chase him or try and force/control him.    He would respond to this with anger but it did seem to open the door.  What do the old-timers here suggest?

[123Phoebe]

What is the status of your relationship?  I apologize for not following completely.  I remember something about her wanting a divorce, then something about therapy?  Is there talk of possibly moving back in together?

There is something to be said for being willing to leave when our needs aren't being met and that goes both ways.  Do you know what her needs are?

[MaroonLiquid]

What is the status of your relationship?  I apologize for not following completely.  I remember something about her wanting a divorce, then something about therapy?  Is there talk of possibly moving back in together?

There is something to be said for being willing to leave when our needs aren't being met and that goes both ways.  :)o you know what her needs are?

We have been separated for almost 4 months (her choice).  She threatened divorce to get a "rise" out of me and I called her bluff.  She still has my laptop and I have kind of let that go as it is a form of control for her.  We have made an appointment with a counselor and starts the week after next.  Currently (6 days ago was last contact), she asked to remain on my insurance (hers was too expensive) and at first, I said ok, but then while texting that day, wouldn't respond to "matters of the heart" texts but was "Johnny on the spot" when discussing non-heart issues.  I feel like I am being used a lot of the time and said we would need to meet to discuss some issues before I agree to keep her on my insurance.  She got mad and said I'm double minded.  No, I just don't think it's right that she wants the benefits of a marriage but non of the responsibility, even if right now she is "confused".  That's a boundary with me.  I asked her that day to get together before she goes out of town for a week this weekend and she said she doesn't want to spend time with me (I think that she was getting back at me for changing my mind about the insurance), but said, "Ok, Have a good week".  I love her dearly, but don't want to be used.

[123Phoebe]

 I asked her that day to get together before she goes out of town for a week this weekend and she said she doesn't want to spend time with me (I think that she was getting back at me for changing my mind about the insurance), but said, "Ok, Have a good week".  I love her dearly, but don't want to be used.

Blah!  That hurts   Well, if my guy were to tell me he doesn't want to spend time with me, I'd grant him his wish.  There's only so much we can do when the other isn't willing.  I don't like feeling used either, MaroonLiquid.

There are some who might suggest sending out a message or feeler and if that's what works for them that's great; we're all different including our dynamics. 

Personally, I have a hard time going back for more if it's trampling along a boundary or value of mine.

Think I'd give her some space and go to the driving range.  Get in super good touch with yourself in the meantime...  

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

You've got an appointment scheduled.  I'd be there.  I wouldn't remind her... .just go.

If she contacts you before then... .then respond properly.

If she goes to the MC appointment... .let things go from there.

If she doesn't show at MC... .let us know and we'll help you figure out what next step is.  My gut says schedule another one and let her know what time it is... .

[MaroonLiquid]

You've got an appointment scheduled.  I'd be there.  I wouldn't remind her... .just go.

If she contacts you before then... .then respond properly.

If she goes to the MC appointment... .let things go from there.

If she doesn't show at MC... .let us know and we'll help you figure out what next step is.  My gut says schedule another one and let her know what time it is... .

That's what I'm going to do.  Right now, I think she believes that I will contact her before her trip on Saturday.  I won't.  She says she doesn't want to spend time with me?  Fine... .She will have the CONSTANT reminder of cutting me out of that trip, me not being there,  me not spending time with her, because of her, for days.  Not enjoying the thought of her being tormented, but honestly, it will probably be the best thing for her.  These are some of the choices she has made and needs to live them.  I'm a lot stronger and she needs to start realizing that and believe she is.  I'm just surprised she hasn't contacted me already after 7 days... .

[MaroonLiquid]

Another thing, she has an important doctor's appointment today for a cyst she has.  Want to know what the result is... .If she wants me to know, she'll tell me.  These are the "no-win" situations I am tired of.  If I don't ask, I look insensitive, and if I do, I've caved first.

[formflier]

 

You will never know "how you look" to her.   And I think you are right... .she will reach out if she needs to chat about the doctor situation.

 

[MaroonLiquid]

You will never know "how you look" to her.   And I think you are right... .she will reach out if she needs to chat about the doctor situation.

 

She didn't tell me the day she had a procedure to remove melanoma from her leg 2 months ago.  I think she likes to keep me out of the loop to continue the "black painting" to other people.

[formflier]

 

If that is the case... .that is her decision and you can't force a change.  Just be ready to communicate appropriately if she reaches out.

[MaroonLiquid]

If that is the case... .that is her decision and you can't force a change.  Just be ready to communicate appropriately if she reaches out.

Why is it getting harder to keep no contact?  Sometimes I feel like I'll lose her by doing this, but can't give in to that.  I hate this "stalemate" game.  I'm actually trying to make our relationship healthier by having boundaries

[formflier]

Why is it getting harder to keep no contact?  

Because you want to communicate with her and heal the r/s.  Your "normal" feelings and coming out... .and those are in conflict with what you have learned in the lessons...

I encourage you to balance the feelings with the wisdom that you have gained on this site.

It's tough... .having doubts is normal... .shows you are human... .and not a robot clicking through a lessons  checklist.

The lessons make it better... ."easy" really doesn't apply... .

 

Hang in there... .find something to do for yourself... .just because...

[MissyM]

The lessons make it better... ."easy" really doesn't apply... .

Pardon my ignorance but where does it say in the lessons not to contact a BPD, when they are pushing away and painting the nonBPD black?  The therapists involved in our case said that it was important that I send loving messages, like Kids and I saw this movie today.  Love you.  Nothing trying to pin down getting together or push his behavior but to simply help him feel connected.  I was told that connection is essential for a BPD because of their lack of self.   I was also warned not to get into the power play of I won't contact him if he doesn't contact me, and that when I get into that mindset that I am just perpetuating the problem. I understand setting a boundary about behavior but I am a little confused as to the no contact.

[formflier]

There is a risk of invalidation if you are sending those messages... .and they are thinking "hate".

That is why it is much better to get them on the phone... or in person... .vice text. 

In person or on phone you can say "hey... .how are you?   ... .Or "what's new"... .or other things that are extremely "neutral"... .and let them respond.  From there you can validate positive or negative emotions and hopefully build some momentum

Deciding when and how to break NC is a bit more specific to a r/s... .than to a lesson.  I think the principle is that you don't want to be perceived as chasing them around like a puppy dog just waiting to be kicked again... .

You would want to be perceived as confident... .strong... .centered... .person that is living their life... .and inviting the pwBPD to come along.  If the pwBPD pitches a fit... .the "non" proceeds with their plans... .doesn't take the "bait" of the fit being pitched.  Tomorrow is a new day... .and the cycle repeats itself.

So... to directly address the question... .I believe you are correct... .that there is no place where it says "never reach out"... . 

If there is a history of reaching out and then feeling used... .might be time for the pendulum to swing to the other side some as the "non" evaluates boundaries, values and that kind of thing.

This is tough when you are not living together.

When still living together my favorite tactic was/is to bring in a glass of water.  "Hey... .thought you may want a drink... "  Test the emotional waters and go from there.

When I was separated and not living at home... .I would wait until a business reason came up to talk.  Test the emotional waters... and go from there.  Once we started down the path of reconnecting and building a r/s back... .but before I moved back in... .I would sometimes call and just say I missed her... .but that was not often.

I'll finish off by restating my issue with text/email.  You never know what condition they will be in when they get it.  You could be a "hero"... .or a "zero"... with the exact same text/email.  Even worse... you can be a hero... .then a day or two later they can read it and you are a "zero".  They tend to keep coming back.

If it is a conversation... .and they try to restate it or paint it black... .they have no "proof" but what is in their mind... .

This went a bit longer than I intended... .but hope it helps.  I'm also open to disagreements and discussions... .this method worked for me... .but all r/s have lots of nuance.

[MaroonLiquid]

Here is where I am at with the "no contact".  This isn't to be spiteful.  I know most of you know this story, but just recapping.  My wife and I were in this spot of, she only contacts me when she needs something (self serving even if it is physical).  It was all on her terms and when and where she wanted to.  Always on "her turf" with the kids so that she had the upper hand.  Only once did she "back down" after I set a boundary, but I think it had more to do with her needs as we hadn't seen each other in 5 weeks.  We agreed to have lunch and then were intimate.  The next day she needed some stuff down around her house and "needed my help"  She dysregulated the next evening when I wasn't giving her what she wanted (she wanted money for her bills even though they were already paid, but didn't remember because she dissociated.  She kicked my kids and I out of her house.  Then, five weeks later, we spent a whole week together and everything seemed to be going great (took her to the doctor, drew her some baths as she was in a lot of pain, took the kids to take care of what they needed while she wasn't feeling well) until she had to deal with some emotion of me not going on our "family cruise" that when she dysregulated the first time, removed me from because it would be "awkward".  Of course it would be when you tell your family lies about me.  Then, when dysregulating, she kept my laptop, tried to change my online passwords, lied about it, found that I had been searching for BPD stuff, and told her family I was having an affair.  We were texting a week and a half ago, and things seemed to be going well and she asked me if she could stay on my insurance (hers was going to be very expensive but a week prior that didn't seem to matter when she told me to take her off).  At first, I said yes, but then noticed something.  When I would try and talk about "matters of the heart" with her, there would be no response, but yet, if it was about her work, the kids, trivial things, or bills, she was "Johnny on the spot" to respond.  So I changed my mind and told her that we would need to meet to discuss some things regarding us if she was going to stay on my insurance.  I didn't do that to just "throw a curveball", but instead to find out what her true intentions actually were.  She then dysregulated.  It was that she didn't get her way and was trying to hold her accountable for not using me.  I asked her a week ago yesterday if she wanted to spend some time together and she said, "I don't want to spend time with you".  I just said, "OK.  Suit yourself.  have a good week.", and left it at that.  No contact since.  She has always projected onto me that I use her (her ex used her bad as he wouldn't work), but finding out for the last several months, she is actually using me and realizes I brought a lot more to the table than she would like to admit, and more importantly was a good dad to her kids.  Another thing, I have lived in my apartment for three months and she has agreed twice to come over (dysregulated both times the day before... .Don't think that is a coincedence).  One more thing, she met with mutual friends of ours from church (the wife) and had lunch.  The husband is having dinner with me Thursday to talk about what they discussed.  He said that my wife desires for the marriage to work and that there is hope.  We didn't get into much, but I'm curious as to what she told them.  He knows there is two sides to this.  I've talked with him before.  He said his wife was very honest with my wife about what she thought my wife needed to do and change.

[waverider]

Is there a point at which you are willing to let go? Until you define or acknowledge that point it is hard to get a benchmark for your actions, and no real structure to your strategy. This leaves you in a needy limbo.

As long as this is obvious all decisons and responsibility is on her plate and she will bounce around like a pin ball in constant indecision. Too many options overwhelm a pwBPD as they cant choose, they cant project long term consequences to their choices. It becomes one knee jerk reaction after the other, with you running around slapping band aids on to hold it together the best you can. Meanwhile the whole thing slowly bleeds to death and you are left with many scars.

Does your wife believe that, if you choose to, you have every right and capability of pulling the rug from under her? Sticking by her is your choice, not your obligation.

Maybe stop applying band aids, go do your own thing and leave her to work out, and realize, the reality of the potential permanence this course of action can result in.

That is when she says she "doesn't want to be with you", she is thinking in the now, until she can equate that to the reality of what "ever again" really means it wont really hit home what she is saying.

[MaroonLiquid]

I haven't contacted her for eight days because I'm at the point of "done being used" and "letting go".  She needs to taste her choices. That was my point of my last post.  Why would you say I was "using band-aids"?  I'm trying to change my r/s with my wife and not react to her crap.

[waverider]

I haven't contacted her for eight days because I'm at the point of "done being used" and "letting go". 

Does she know this? Does she know that this is your considered choice? Or are you hoping it is inferred by you not contacting her. Does she know that the choice can be taken away from her. She will not be viewing it from your side of the street.

[MaroonLiquid]

I haven't contacted her for eight days because I'm at the point of "done being used" and "letting go". 

Does she know this? Does she know that this is your considered choice? Or are you hoping it is inferred by you not contacting her. Does she know that the choice can be taken away from her. She will not be viewing it from your side of the street.

Yes, I sent her an email about three weeks ago that stated that if she couldn't treat me a certain way (stated it very clearly) and stop the behaviors that were detrimental to us (stated them very clearly), that I would "be done", she would be "on her own" and that I would not contact her in any way, nor do I want it from her.  When she told me that she didn't want to spend time with me, that was my line.  This is still hard, but I think she thinks I'll crack, and honestly, almost have several times.  I know there is no "time table" for this sort of thing, and she still may not, but wish she would make contact.  I miss my wife terribly.  She is leaving on our "family trip" Saturday and I realize I'm a little angry still about being cut out of it and not going.

[MaroonLiquid]

So my wife texted me and asked me if I had a charger to our camera.  i responded and said, "I don't think so, but I will check tonight."  she said, "ok thank you", and I just said, "You're welcome".

[formflier]

So my wife texted me and asked me if I had a charger to our camera.  i responded and said, "I don't think so, but I will check tonight."  she said, "ok thank you", and I just said, "You're welcome".

Find one... .buy it if you have to.  Set up a time to meet and hand it over... .be ready to spend extra time together over coffee... .

[MaroonLiquid]

So my wife texted me and asked me if I had a charger to our camera.  i responded and said, "I don't think so, but I will check tonight."  she said, "ok thank you", and I just said, "You're welcome".

Find one... .buy it if you have to.  Set up a time to meet and hand it over... .be ready to spend extra time together over coffee... .

Heard!     I will start looking for one now... .Why would you say be ready to spend extra time together though?  You think she wants to see me?

[MissyM]

Yes, I sent her an email about three weeks ago that stated that if she couldn't treat me a certain way (stated it very clearly) and stop the behaviors that were detrimental to us (stated them very clearly), that I would "be done", she would be "on her own" and that I would not contact her in any way, nor do I want it from her.  When she told me that she didn't want to spend time with me, that was my line. 

Ah, I didn't realize that you had set no contact out as the way you would respond if she crossed this boundary.  Although I see that you told her you didn't want to hear from her either.  Did you not mean that part?

[MaroonLiquid]

Yes, I sent her an email about three weeks ago that stated that if she couldn't treat me a certain way (stated it very clearly) and stop the behaviors that were detrimental to us (stated them very clearly), that I would "be done", she would be "on her own" and that I would not contact her in any way, nor do I want it from her.  When she told me that she didn't want to spend time with me, that was my line. 

Ah, I didn't realize that you had set no contact out as the way you would respond if she crossed this boundary.  Although I see that you told her you didn't want to hear from her either.  Did you not mean that part?

I didn't put that the right way.  In fact don't know why I typed that at all.  I did put the no contact as a boundary if she crossed, but not that I didn't want to hear from her.  Sorry.  She just asked me about the insurance thing again.  Told her I was in a meeting until later and would contact her afterwards.

[Grey Kitty]

Here is where I am at with the "no contact"

... .

At first, I said yes, but then noticed something.  When I would try and talk about "matters of the heart" with her, there would be no response, but yet, if it was about her work, the kids, trivial things, or bills, she was "Johnny on the spot" to respond.

... .

Besides this, I think there are two issues you are in conflict with her over right now.

She took your laptop, and you locked her out of it plus her computer until she gave it back. (still unresolved, I think)

Whether to put her on your insurance, which would be cheaper than hers.

I'm not sure quite how it all fits together for you.

The two conflicts seem like ones where you are making a reasonable choice to not let her take advantage of you.

The choice of no contact (really low contact) because she won't respond to "matters of the heart" seems like a different situation; I am not sure that your actions here are really working toward what you say you want.

[MaroonLiquid]

I just texted and said that I have the charger (bought one), and we can meet tomorrow over lunch and discuss the insurance also.  She responded with, ":)rop the charger on my doorstep by 8PM tomorrow and give me an answer on the insurance."  I want to respond with, "If you want the charger and you want to remain on my insurance, then you will meet with me."  What do you guys think?  What did you mean Grey Kitty about the low contact not solving anything?  And yes, she still has my laptop.  I don't bring it up anymore. She is looking for an outlet as I didn't give her one for almost 10 days... .

[formflier]

 

Here is my recommendation. 

Let her know where you will be so she can come and "discuss" insurance.

Not "give an answer"... .there is lots to talk about.  The issue is not yes or no.

You need to go to a relaxing place so you can "talk about this properly... "  a doorstep is not that kind of place.

Someplace neutral... .corner of a coffee shop is great.  It's public... but you are not right up against people...

Be prepared to give her several options... just not on her turf... .not on your turf... .

Thoughts on this? 

Try to do this on the phone... not text... be very relaxed... .nonchalant. 

If she backs out... .don't react

[Grey Kitty]

Thanks for asking. I'm still feeling a little muddy, but I feel like I'm getting closer to something:

I think of nc/lc as a boundary enforcement activity.

Enforcing boundaries works wonders to protect yourself from another's actions. (i.e. verbal or physical abuse.) They do not and cannot make another take the action you desire.

Her choice to avoid you/blow off requests to see her is a choice she can make. Nothing you do will force her to choose otherwise.

Other tools are more effective to get willing compliance.



I do see the pattern that she wants financial support from you, but no other contact from you. Ugh.

That's a tough one. First, I'm wondering what your legal obligations are for financial support. (I think you mentioned kids; I don't recall whether they your children, your step-children, or how long you had been living with them)

Second, if she doesn't want anything else from you, how long will you stick around and hope for a change... .and how much time and money are you willing to invest in hoping for change?

[Rapt Reader]

This thread has been closed due to reaching its post limit. The conversation continues on this thread: Hard Day... .Part 3