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Author Topic: Hard day... Cont'd...  (Read 1057 times)
123Phoebe
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« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2014, 04:38:45 PM »

 I asked her that day to get together before she goes out of town for a week this weekend and she said she doesn't want to spend time with me (I think that she was getting back at me for changing my mind about the insurance), but said, "Ok, Have a good week".  I love her dearly, but don't want to be used.

Blah!  That hurts   Well, if my guy were to tell me he doesn't want to spend time with me, I'd grant him his wish.  There's only so much we can do when the other isn't willing.  I don't like feeling used either, MaroonLiquid.

There are some who might suggest sending out a message or feeler and if that's what works for them that's great; we're all different including our dynamics. 

Personally, I have a hard time going back for more if it's trampling along a boundary or value of mine.

Think I'd give her some space and go to the driving range.  Get in super good touch with yourself in the meantime...  
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« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2014, 11:28:50 PM »

 

You've got an appointment scheduled.  I'd be there.  I wouldn't remind her... .just go.

If she contacts you before then... .then respond properly.

If she goes to the MC appointment... .let things go from there.

If she doesn't show at MC... .let us know and we'll help you figure out what next step is.  My gut says schedule another one and let her know what time it is... .

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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2014, 10:42:35 AM »

You've got an appointment scheduled.  I'd be there.  I wouldn't remind her... .just go.

If she contacts you before then... .then respond properly.

If she goes to the MC appointment... .let things go from there.

If she doesn't show at MC... .let us know and we'll help you figure out what next step is.  My gut says schedule another one and let her know what time it is... .

That's what I'm going to do.  Right now, I think she believes that I will contact her before her trip on Saturday.  I won't.  She says she doesn't want to spend time with me?  Fine... .She will have the CONSTANT reminder of cutting me out of that trip, me not being there,  me not spending time with her, because of her, for days.  Not enjoying the thought of her being tormented, but honestly, it will probably be the best thing for her.  These are some of the choices she has made and needs to live them.  I'm a lot stronger and she needs to start realizing that and believe she is.  I'm just surprised she hasn't contacted me already after 7 days... .
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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2014, 12:21:04 PM »

Another thing, she has an important doctor's appointment today for a cyst she has.  Want to know what the result is... .If she wants me to know, she'll tell me.  These are the "no-win" situations I am tired of.  If I don't ask, I look insensitive, and if I do, I've caved first.
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« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2014, 03:12:50 PM »

 

You will never know "how you look" to her.   And I think you are right... .she will reach out if she needs to chat about the doctor situation.

 

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« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2014, 03:41:22 PM »

You will never know "how you look" to her.   And I think you are right... .she will reach out if she needs to chat about the doctor situation.

 

She didn't tell me the day she had a procedure to remove melanoma from her leg 2 months ago.  I think she likes to keep me out of the loop to continue the "black painting" to other people.
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« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2014, 04:45:49 PM »

 

If that is the case... .that is her decision and you can't force a change.  Just be ready to communicate appropriately if she reaches out.

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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2014, 05:37:53 PM »

If that is the case... .that is her decision and you can't force a change.  Just be ready to communicate appropriately if she reaches out.

Why is it getting harder to keep no contact?  Sometimes I feel like I'll lose her by doing this, but can't give in to that.  I hate this "stalemate" game.  I'm actually trying to make our relationship healthier by having boundaries
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« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2014, 07:36:23 PM »

Why is it getting harder to keep no contact?  

Because you want to communicate with her and heal the r/s.  Your "normal" feelings and coming out... .and those are in conflict with what you have learned in the lessons...

I encourage you to balance the feelings with the wisdom that you have gained on this site.

It's tough... .having doubts is normal... .shows you are human... .and not a robot clicking through a lessons  checklist.

The lessons make it better... ."easy" really doesn't apply... .

 

Hang in there... .find something to do for yourself... .just because...
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MissyM
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« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2014, 09:31:59 PM »

Excerpt
The lessons make it better... ."easy" really doesn't apply... .

Pardon my ignorance but where does it say in the lessons not to contact a BPD, when they are pushing away and painting the nonBPD black?  The therapists involved in our case said that it was important that I send loving messages, like Kids and I saw this movie today.  Love you.  Nothing trying to pin down getting together or push his behavior but to simply help him feel connected.  I was told that connection is essential for a BPD because of their lack of self.   I was also warned not to get into the power play of I won't contact him if he doesn't contact me, and that when I get into that mindset that I am just perpetuating the problem. I understand setting a boundary about behavior but I am a little confused as to the no contact.
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« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2014, 07:55:33 AM »



There is a risk of invalidation if you are sending those messages... .and they are thinking "hate".

That is why it is much better to get them on the phone... or in person... .vice text. 

In person or on phone you can say "hey... .how are you?   ... .Or "what's new"... .or other things that are extremely "neutral"... .and let them respond.  From there you can validate positive or negative emotions and hopefully build some momentum

Deciding when and how to break NC is a bit more specific to a r/s... .than to a lesson.  I think the principle is that you don't want to be perceived as chasing them around like a puppy dog just waiting to be kicked again... .

You would want to be perceived as confident... .strong... .centered... .person that is living their life... .and inviting the pwBPD to come along.  If the pwBPD pitches a fit... .the "non" proceeds with their plans... .doesn't take the "bait" of the fit being pitched.  Tomorrow is a new day... .and the cycle repeats itself.

So... to directly address the question... .I believe you are correct... .that there is no place where it says "never reach out"... . 

If there is a history of reaching out and then feeling used... .might be time for the pendulum to swing to the other side some as the "non" evaluates boundaries, values and that kind of thing.

This is tough when you are not living together.

When still living together my favorite tactic was/is to bring in a glass of water.  "Hey... .thought you may want a drink... "  Test the emotional waters and go from there.

When I was separated and not living at home... .I would wait until a business reason came up to talk.  Test the emotional waters... and go from there.  Once we started down the path of reconnecting and building a r/s back... .but before I moved back in... .I would sometimes call and just say I missed her... .but that was not often.

I'll finish off by restating my issue with text/email.  You never know what condition they will be in when they get it.  You could be a "hero"... .or a "zero"... with the exact same text/email.  Even worse... you can be a hero... .then a day or two later they can read it and you are a "zero".  They tend to keep coming back.

If it is a conversation... .and they try to restate it or paint it black... .they have no "proof" but what is in their mind... .

This went a bit longer than I intended... .but hope it helps.  I'm also open to disagreements and discussions... .this method worked for me... .but all r/s have lots of nuance.



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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2014, 08:53:57 AM »

Here is where I am at with the "no contact".  This isn't to be spiteful.  I know most of you know this story, but just recapping.  My wife and I were in this spot of, she only contacts me when she needs something (self serving even if it is physical).  It was all on her terms and when and where she wanted to.  Always on "her turf" with the kids so that she had the upper hand.  Only once did she "back down" after I set a boundary, but I think it had more to do with her needs as we hadn't seen each other in 5 weeks.  We agreed to have lunch and then were intimate.  The next day she needed some stuff down around her house and "needed my help"  She dysregulated the next evening when I wasn't giving her what she wanted (she wanted money for her bills even though they were already paid, but didn't remember because she dissociated.  She kicked my kids and I out of her house.  Then, five weeks later, we spent a whole week together and everything seemed to be going great (took her to the doctor, drew her some baths as she was in a lot of pain, took the kids to take care of what they needed while she wasn't feeling well) until she had to deal with some emotion of me not going on our "family cruise" that when she dysregulated the first time, removed me from because it would be "awkward".  Of course it would be when you tell your family lies about me.  Then, when dysregulating, she kept my laptop, tried to change my online passwords, lied about it, found that I had been searching for BPD stuff, and told her family I was having an affair.  We were texting a week and a half ago, and things seemed to be going well and she asked me if she could stay on my insurance (hers was going to be very expensive but a week prior that didn't seem to matter when she told me to take her off).  At first, I said yes, but then noticed something.  When I would try and talk about "matters of the heart" with her, there would be no response, but yet, if it was about her work, the kids, trivial things, or bills, she was "Johnny on the spot" to respond.  So I changed my mind and told her that we would need to meet to discuss some things regarding us if she was going to stay on my insurance.  I didn't do that to just "throw a curveball", but instead to find out what her true intentions actually were.  She then dysregulated.  It was that she didn't get her way and was trying to hold her accountable for not using me.  I asked her a week ago yesterday if she wanted to spend some time together and she said, "I don't want to spend time with you".  I just said, "OK.  Suit yourself.  have a good week.", and left it at that.  No contact since.  She has always projected onto me that I use her (her ex used her bad as he wouldn't work), but finding out for the last several months, she is actually using me and realizes I brought a lot more to the table than she would like to admit, and more importantly was a good dad to her kids.  Another thing, I have lived in my apartment for three months and she has agreed twice to come over (dysregulated both times the day before... .Don't think that is a coincedence).  One more thing, she met with mutual friends of ours from church (the wife) and had lunch.  The husband is having dinner with me Thursday to talk about what they discussed.  He said that my wife desires for the marriage to work and that there is hope.  We didn't get into much, but I'm curious as to what she told them.  He knows there is two sides to this.  I've talked with him before.  He said his wife was very honest with my wife about what she thought my wife needed to do and change.
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waverider
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« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2014, 04:35:28 PM »

Is there a point at which you are willing to let go? Until you define or acknowledge that point it is hard to get a benchmark for your actions, and no real structure to your strategy. This leaves you in a needy limbo.

As long as this is obvious all decisons and responsibility is on her plate and she will bounce around like a pin ball in constant indecision. Too many options overwhelm a pwBPD as they cant choose, they cant project long term consequences to their choices. It becomes one knee jerk reaction after the other, with you running around slapping band aids on to hold it together the best you can. Meanwhile the whole thing slowly bleeds to death and you are left with many scars.

Does your wife believe that, if you choose to, you have every right and capability of pulling the rug from under her? Sticking by her is your choice, not your obligation.

Maybe stop applying band aids, go do your own thing and leave her to work out, and realize, the reality of the potential permanence this course of action can result in.

That is when she says she "doesn't want to be with you", she is thinking in the now, until she can equate that to the reality of what "ever again" really means it wont really hit home what she is saying.
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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2014, 06:07:25 PM »

I haven't contacted her for eight days because I'm at the point of "done being used" and "letting go".  She needs to taste her choices. That was my point of my last post.  Why would you say I was "using band-aids"?  I'm trying to change my r/s with my wife and not react to her crap.
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« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2014, 07:21:17 PM »

I haven't contacted her for eight days because I'm at the point of "done being used" and "letting go". 

Does she know this? Does she know that this is your considered choice? Or are you hoping it is inferred by you not contacting her. Does she know that the choice can be taken away from her. She will not be viewing it from your side of the street.
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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2014, 07:19:32 AM »

I haven't contacted her for eight days because I'm at the point of "done being used" and "letting go". 

Does she know this? Does she know that this is your considered choice? Or are you hoping it is inferred by you not contacting her. Does she know that the choice can be taken away from her. She will not be viewing it from your side of the street.

Yes, I sent her an email about three weeks ago that stated that if she couldn't treat me a certain way (stated it very clearly) and stop the behaviors that were detrimental to us (stated them very clearly), that I would "be done", she would be "on her own" and that I would not contact her in any way, nor do I want it from her.  When she told me that she didn't want to spend time with me, that was my line.  This is still hard, but I think she thinks I'll crack, and honestly, almost have several times.  I know there is no "time table" for this sort of thing, and she still may not, but wish she would make contact.  I miss my wife terribly.  She is leaving on our "family trip" Saturday and I realize I'm a little angry still about being cut out of it and not going.
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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2014, 11:46:52 AM »

So my wife texted me and asked me if I had a charger to our camera.  i responded and said, "I don't think so, but I will check tonight."  she said, "ok thank you", and I just said, "You're welcome".
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« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2014, 12:29:11 PM »

So my wife texted me and asked me if I had a charger to our camera.  i responded and said, "I don't think so, but I will check tonight."  she said, "ok thank you", and I just said, "You're welcome".

Find one... .buy it if you have to.  Set up a time to meet and hand it over... .be ready to spend extra time together over coffee... .

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« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2014, 12:55:00 PM »

So my wife texted me and asked me if I had a charger to our camera.  i responded and said, "I don't think so, but I will check tonight."  she said, "ok thank you", and I just said, "You're welcome".

Find one... .buy it if you have to.  Set up a time to meet and hand it over... .be ready to spend extra time together over coffee... .

Heard!   Smiling (click to insert in post)  I will start looking for one now... .Why would you say be ready to spend extra time together though?  You think she wants to see me?
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MissyM
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« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2014, 02:28:13 PM »

Excerpt
Yes, I sent her an email about three weeks ago that stated that if she couldn't treat me a certain way (stated it very clearly) and stop the behaviors that were detrimental to us (stated them very clearly), that I would "be done", she would be "on her own" and that I would not contact her in any way, nor do I want it from her.  When she told me that she didn't want to spend time with me, that was my line. 

Ah, I didn't realize that you had set no contact out as the way you would respond if she crossed this boundary.  Although I see that you told her you didn't want to hear from her either.  Did you not mean that part?
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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2014, 02:51:47 PM »

Excerpt
Yes, I sent her an email about three weeks ago that stated that if she couldn't treat me a certain way (stated it very clearly) and stop the behaviors that were detrimental to us (stated them very clearly), that I would "be done", she would be "on her own" and that I would not contact her in any way, nor do I want it from her.  When she told me that she didn't want to spend time with me, that was my line. 

Ah, I didn't realize that you had set no contact out as the way you would respond if she crossed this boundary.  Although I see that you told her you didn't want to hear from her either.  Did you not mean that part?

I didn't put that the right way.  In fact don't know why I typed that at all.  I did put the no contact as a boundary if she crossed, but not that I didn't want to hear from her.  Sorry.  She just asked me about the insurance thing again.  Told her I was in a meeting until later and would contact her afterwards.
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« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2014, 05:20:12 PM »

Here is where I am at with the "no contact"

... .

At first, I said yes, but then noticed something.  When I would try and talk about "matters of the heart" with her, there would be no response, but yet, if it was about her work, the kids, trivial things, or bills, she was "Johnny on the spot" to respond.

... .

Besides this, I think there are two issues you are in conflict with her over right now.

She took your laptop, and you locked her out of it plus her computer until she gave it back. (still unresolved, I think)

Whether to put her on your insurance, which would be cheaper than hers.

I'm not sure quite how it all fits together for you.

The two conflicts seem like ones where you are making a reasonable choice to not let her take advantage of you.

The choice of no contact (really low contact) because she won't respond to "matters of the heart" seems like a different situation; I am not sure that your actions here are really working toward what you say you want.

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« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2014, 05:40:24 PM »

I just texted and said that I have the charger (bought one), and we can meet tomorrow over lunch and discuss the insurance also.  She responded with, ":)rop the charger on my doorstep by 8PM tomorrow and give me an answer on the insurance."  I want to respond with, "If you want the charger and you want to remain on my insurance, then you will meet with me."  What do you guys think?  What did you mean Grey Kitty about the low contact not solving anything?  And yes, she still has my laptop.  I don't bring it up anymore. She is looking for an outlet as I didn't give her one for almost 10 days... .
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« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2014, 06:52:11 PM »

 

Here is my recommendation. 

Let her know where you will be so she can come and "discuss" insurance.

Not "give an answer"... .there is lots to talk about.  The issue is not yes or no.

You need to go to a relaxing place so you can "talk about this properly... "  a doorstep is not that kind of place.

Someplace neutral... .corner of a coffee shop is great.  It's public... but you are not right up against people...

Be prepared to give her several options... just not on her turf... .not on your turf... .

Thoughts on this? 

Try to do this on the phone... not text... be very relaxed... .nonchalant. 

If she backs out... .don't react
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« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2014, 07:08:38 PM »

Thanks for asking. I'm still feeling a little muddy, but I feel like I'm getting closer to something:

I think of nc/lc as a boundary enforcement activity.

Enforcing boundaries works wonders to protect yourself from another's actions. (i.e. verbal or physical abuse.) They do not and cannot make another take the action you desire.

Her choice to avoid you/blow off requests to see her is a choice she can make. Nothing you do will force her to choose otherwise.

Other tools are more effective to get willing compliance.




I do see the pattern that she wants financial support from you, but no other contact from you. Ugh.

That's a tough one. First, I'm wondering what your legal obligations are for financial support. (I think you mentioned kids; I don't recall whether they your children, your step-children, or how long you had been living with them)

Second, if she doesn't want anything else from you, how long will you stick around and hope for a change... .and how much time and money are you willing to invest in hoping for change?
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« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2014, 01:55:21 PM »

Staff only

This thread has been closed due to reaching its post limit. The conversation continues on this thread: Hard Day... .Part 3

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