What can I do to make him stop painting me black?

[Indyan]

On one hand I have to protect myself (legally, financially, emotionnally) but on the other I'd like to leave a chance for improvement.

But BPD goes on hating me for no reason.

He's not totally giving up on us though, he even arranged MC 2 weeks ago (I know that's a long time... .  )

but his attitude towards me is unchanged. No physical contact, he's very agressive, keeps threatening of anything he can think of (lawyers... .).

I'm sick and tired of all this.

Is there anything I could do to help him get out of this?

I want to say that I've worked LOADS to stop living in FOG - and it's starting to work. I'm not afraid of his threats anymore, they do make me sad though. I try not to feel obliged to do anything, for I've proposed mediation and he hasn't replied so far. And I'm certainly not guilty (anymore), as I've decided not to pay attention to his false accusations (essentially that I don't let him see his baby, which is all rubbish).

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Indyan]

A BPD friend advised me to keep my r/s with BPDh to a minimum at the moment (meaning, talking about things relating to our baby), to ease the "pressure" on him and leave him space to move forward if he wishes to.

I kept trying... .too much maybe. I'm confused. I thought that keeping our r/s to the minimum would only make him feel even more rejected.

Has anyone managed to ease the blackpainting in one way or another?

[AnnaK]

Ignore the negatives and distance out.  If you have any idea how to validate - try to validate.

I do not know what initially happened, but they can act hostile out of fear or guilt, too. And unless you say it first - they will keep denying it

[Grey Kitty]

First, off, his painting you black or painting you white is a part of his BPD. It has nothing to do with you, and therefore, you can do very little to change it.

Of course, he may decide to paint you white, and act as if you were never painted black. As I said, you have very little (if any) control over that.

Second, when it comes to your r/s, he's going to continue with the push-pull... .also a symptom of BPD. You cannot expect him to consistently work toward either breaking up or getting back together.

That leaves you--what outcome do you want? Do you want to get back together with him?

I kept trying... .too much maybe. I'm confused. I thought that keeping our r/s to the minimum would only make him feel even more rejected.

Rebuffing his attempts to contact you are probably going to be interpreted as rejection. (But don't let that be more important than your safety!)

Other forms of low contact... .not chasing after him, not trying to get him into therapy (i.e. trying to control him), and not getting in big fights with him... .those would be working against your r/s if you did them, so stepping back there can only help.

[Indyan]

Other forms of low contact... .not chasing after him, not trying to get him into therapy (i.e. trying to control him), and not getting in big fights with him... .those would be working against your r/s if you did them, so stepping back there can only help.

Yes, that's exactly what my BPD friend told me.

I'll try that then.

I kept thinking that I needed to send "I'm staying" (subtle) messages. But I can't say that it has helped much.

You cannot expect him to consistently work toward either breaking up or getting back together.

That's strange because he used to push/pull at a lower pace, like every month or so. Then, after a year into the r/s it slowed down, it was every 3 months, even less, for another 8 months. But now he seems to be painting me black almost all the time. July/August, he painted me black for about 4 weeks, then 4 days of idealizing me, then back to blackpainting for 3 weeks, then 2 days idealizing me, black again 3 weeks, white a few days and black again for the last 2 weeks.

I have enough!

[Grey Kitty]

I have enough!

You sound very frustrated. And this situation merits it. I think it is time for you to change something... .do you know what you want?

I think I'm reading both a desire to get back into a r/s with him and a desire to keep a safe distance from him.

Choose which of those fits your values and the life you want better--trying to do both at the same time will involve tradeoffs. Knowing where your limits are and what is most important will keep you centered and make you more comfortable with the difficult choices you will have to make.

[Indyan]

do you know what you want?

I think I'm reading both a desire to get back into a r/s with him and a desire to keep a safe distance from him.

Precisely. I really want the r/s to work but not at any cost.

Today the cost is huge: my D10 fears him, I'm coming out of FOG, I had to work hard to try and protect myself financially etc.

My priority is to not be FOGGED anymore. Never ever. I refuse to feel trapped in any way.

But I'd like our r/s to get better, because it used to be beautiful, even if today he paints it black too.

[formflier]

 

Indyan,

You are well on your way to employing strategies to make you r/s better.

One thing to point out... .look at the title of your thread.

"making" a pwBPD do things... is not a good strategy.

You need to focus on making wise decisions for yourself... .that will cause him to change his behavior.  We don't know exactly what he will do... .but I would be shocked it his behavior stays the same.

Can you describe how this is different from "making" him do something?

[Grey Kitty]

In your shoes, I'd focus first on physical, financial, and emotional safety for yourself and your children, and building a good life for yourself separately.

At the same time, work on avoiding things that actively harm your r/s with your H. (The biggest one is stop being invalidating / JADEing)

Once you feel like you won't get stuck in the FOG, and know you can enforce boundaries well to protect yourself and your children, then you can start working more actively on your r/s with him, if he is still interested.

[hurting300]

Just stop talking to him. Seriously, he's being triggered somehow right? Just back off for a few weeks or so and give him space.

[Indyan]

You need to focus on making wise decisions for yourself... .that will cause him to change his behavior.  We don't know exactly what he will do... .but I would be shocked it his behavior stays the same.

Can you describe how this is different from "making" him do something?

Yes, my question wasn't well formulated, I'm aware that I can't "make" him do anything.

Thanks for your reply, wise as always 

[Indyan]

In your shoes, I'd focus first on physical, financial, and emotional safety for yourself and your children, and building a good life for yourself separately.

At the same time, work on avoiding things that actively harm your r/s with your H. (The biggest one is stop being invalidating / JADEing)

Once you feel like you won't get stuck in the FOG, and know you can enforce boundaries well to protect yourself and your children, then you can start working more actively on your r/s with him, if he is still interested.

I am already concentrating on my safety, I've donne everything possible to protect the kids and I financially and legally.

And emotionnally, but that's a lot more difficult.

I have to stop "counter attacking", it's hard.

I'm seeing my T today (haven't seen him since MC), I think that may help.

Thanks Grey Kitty  

Just stop talking to him. Seriously, he's being triggered somehow right? Just back off for a few weeks or so and give him space.

I can't see how to give him EVEN MORE space. He's staying away, I don't send him messages. We don't talk on the phone.

I've stopped talking about BPD and stuff for weeks now. I haven't mentionned MC since we went there 10 days ago.

[anxiety5]

I think you should just get out. I'm about to do this myself. Mine is rapidly cycling more and more through these episodic periods and also lacks the physical contact. I love how they shun you physically. I know it's done intentionally but it's really a flaw in their attempts to manipulate. That lack of physical intimacy has made it EASIER for me to detach from this person. As time has passed, she has helped ME because she doesn't even feel like a girlfriend anymore. She's just this ranting raving lunatic who is a dormant volcano one week and Mount St. Helens the next. Without any physical contact, I don't even feel attached to her anymore. It's starting to feel like a stranger is yelling at me rather than a significant other. But I digress, I have read that these cycles of irregular behavior are sort of the end phase if you will wherein, like a sputtering engine, they eventually settle down into a full black out of you indefinitely. The way to make him stop painting you black is to stop letting it affect you.

On a side note, the transactional interaction thing, where you keep all contact to subject matter only and refuse to bite on anything else? That works. It may piss them off temporarily, but it conditions them. They eventually become less intense and less frequent. Sort of like training a puppy. You don't reward his bad behavior with the validating attention it seeks. I know this because this is exactly the way my BPD's ex husband interacted with her the entirety of our relationship. Long before I had a grasp on any of this. What a stoic guy. He NEVER bit once on her attacks. Eventually, she gave up. And delusional and for triangulation reasons (I assume) halfway into our relationship, could only say great things about him. What's amazing is the fact that she genuinely had no concept that she drove him mad. She used to suspect he was gay, because as she said "I was the perfect wife" Creeps me out even thinking about the depths of their delusion.

[Indyan]

That lack of physical intimacy has made it EASIER for me to detach from this person. As time has passed, she has helped ME because she doesn't even feel like a girlfriend anymore.

The way to make him stop painting you black is to stop letting it affect you.

I agree with both statements.

One thing though is that I feel that the day it doesn't affect me anymore at all, there won't be any chance of going back together again.

The thing that motivates me still a little bit is the little family we had built around our baby of 9mo and my D10.

If (like you?) we had no child together, I would move further away, week after week, month after month.

[AnnaK]

When I am being painted black (it regularly happens), I am like "okay, okay, personal time - and dear, it's okay that you hate me, but when you are done hating me, please come back!"

As it has already happened many times, that I am painted and repainted, I am trying not to worry about it too much... .even he seems to be accustomed - although he seems to be quite sincere in periodically thinking that I am utterly obnoxious and impossible to live with - somewhere in the back of his mind he seems to be aware that "this too, shall pass" - and I will still be there.

[Lucky One]

Just stop talking to him. Seriously, he's being triggered somehow right? Just back off for a few weeks or so and give him space.

Agree with that. My uBPDw got triggered about something, two and a half years ago.

She's been painting me black ever since. We still live in the family home, our home,  together.

Like I've said before, I've been "learning how to change my tactics on this website" for the last month and a bit.

I try this, I try that. Support, empathy, truth, validation, listening more attentively etc.

But I DO NOT talk about or respond to her accusations. Actually I DO NOT even ask her anymore - "How are you feeling". It's only going to open up, a can of worms!.

Actually the less I talk, the better.

So after  these three months of her silent treatment, and me doing the things I'm learning on the BPD website, over the last month, she seems to be getting less agitated and anxious.

She's even started to smile  at me yesterday.

So I'm just going to carry on like this for a while, take some time out, which I really need, because my nerves are shot, talk about NOTHING SERIOUS, and be as pleasant as I can.

And TAKE NOTHING SERIOUSLY, nor PERSONALLY. Say what you like - I'm not worried, type of attitude - but I still show some interest, so long as it doesn't cross the new, UNSPOKEN boundaries, I've set.

It seems to be getting us somewhere.

As soon as I know or find out, where this somewhere is, I'll let you all know!

[formflier]

  I know it's done intentionally but it's really a flaw in their attempts to manipulate. 

A bit of a disagreement here... .we'll never know if it is "intentional" or "part of the disorder" (as in something they can't help).  So... since it is not knowable... .skip it and move on to something that you can put energy into and get results.

Like using lessons and getting yourself healthier.

The thing that is knowable is that there is generally an order to the disorder.  Learning that order will give power and hope back to those of us that are stayers... .

[Indyan]

But I DO NOT talk about or respond to her accusations. Actually I DO NOT even ask her anymore - "How are you feeling". It's only going to open up, a can of worms!. LOL



Actually the less I talk, the better.

So after  these three months of her silent treatment, and me doing the things I'm learning on the BPD website, over the last month, she seems to be getting less agitated and anxious.

She's even started to smile  at me yesterday.

So I'm just going to carry on like this for a while, take some time out, which I really need, because my nerves are shot, talk about NOTHING SERIOUS, and be as pleasant as I can.

And TAKE NOTHING SERIOUSLY, nor PERSONALLY. Say what you like - I'm not worried, type of attitude - but I still show some interest, so long as it doesn't cross the new, UNSPOKEN boundaries, I've set.

It seems to be getting us somewhere.

As soon as I know or find out, where this somewhere is, I'll let you all know!

Cool stuff, I'll do alike 

[hurting300]

But I DO NOT talk about or respond to her accusations. Actually I DO NOT even ask her anymore - "How are you feeling". It's only going to open up, a can of worms!. LOL



Actually the less I talk, the better.

So after  these three months of her silent treatment, and me doing the things I'm learning on the BPD website, over the last month, she seems to be getting less agitated and anxious.

She's even started to smile  at me yesterday.

So I'm just going to carry on like this for a while, take some time out, which I really need, because my nerves are shot, talk about NOTHING SERIOUS, and be as pleasant as I can.

And TAKE NOTHING SERIOUSLY, nor PERSONALLY. Say what you like - I'm not worried, type of attitude - but I still show some interest, so long as it doesn't cross the new, UNSPOKEN boundaries, I've set.

It seems to be getting us somewhere.

As soon as I know or find out, where this somewhere is, I'll let you all know!

Cool stuff, I'll do alike 

I know you are hurting... believe me. The people I hired are experts at this and told me flat out to not react... they said to disappear also. So I made a choice to deactivate my Facebook and change my number... I will not play this game... people with BPD are kinda like an old hound dog that loves to run away... but if you wait it out they'll come back. I feel for you, please please focus on yourself. Love is hard i know.

[Lucky One]

  I know it's done intentionally but it's really a flaw in their attempts to manipulate. 

The thing that is knowable is that there is generally an order to the disorder.  Learning that order will give power and hope back to those of us that are stayers... .

I really like this. This is the best. "Learning that order will give power and hope"... .

That's why I've personally started doing a DBT self help course, on the Internet.

I want to know what this order to the disorder is. And put it into practice. DO IT.

Thanks Formflier - once again!

[anxiety5]

All it took for me to get her to snap out of these moods was to begin to become autonomous again. I would never text her or call her, but I would respond to her texts and pick up when she called, if that makes sense. I gave zero indication that I was desperate. And when she would say things that were intended to pick on me, I would emotionless respond with "why are you saying this right now?" Or if I knew she was triangulating me by being all giddy telling me a story about her ex, I would laugh with her, ask questions about the story and say "that's awesome" It was funny, she would end up annoyed that I liked the story. My point is, I would shut down all of her attempts to pick fights, I'd occupy my time. Start planning stuff with friends, etc When she started to see me begin doing my own thing, she would stop all the bad behavior and come back to her other self again.  Obviously this is not ideal or sustainable, just sharing ways I made the painting black stop. Many of these people have a sadistic side to them, so when you latch on, become clingy, cry, etc they almost attack more. You are empowering them.  To take that power away, stand up for yourself without fighting back. If they are rude say something with dumbed down language. Something short and direct like "I don't think you are being nice right now. I'm going to leave. If you want to hang out and not say mean things to me, give me a call" And leave. If they need space, give it to them. And don't hover waiting for them. Just move on doing things yourself. It's a win win because it will cause them to snap out of it, and worst case if they don't you already have a head start doing healthy things to get your own life back.

[formflier]

 

For me... .I found this site helpful when I first started learning... .but I sort of had a "take it or leave it attitude"... .sort of thought I'd try it out and see.  I still thought "logic" was the best way to deal with my r/s issues.

Well... luckily I learned about boundaries and extinction bursts.

I learned that I shouldn't try a boundary until I knew I could hold it.  Well... I finally tried one... .about passwords for computer and phone.  I had read about extinction bursts... .so I knew it would get worse... .before better.

Well... it played out exactly like the lessons and the senior people this board said it would.  Exactly!

It ended by her playing like it was never a big deal to her in the first place.  I didn't challenge this assumption... .I just moved along.

After that... .I started re-reading everything... .I think became a "devotee" of the lessons and methods taught on this site.

They don't guarantee an outcome... .but they do guarantee that it will be better that ignoring the lessons and invalidating a pwBPD.

And... .better... is... .well... .it's better.  Improvement gives hope for the future... .

[hurting300]

Yeah I shouldn't have to learn how to deal with someone. I told her what I thought was wrong straight up. Maybe that's why she left.

[Indyan]

Yeah I shouldn't have to learn how to deal with someone. I told her what I thought was wrong straight up. Maybe that's why she left.

I can tell you that's why MY BPD left.

Because I told him he was ill, and because he had somehow to "punish" me when admitting he had a problem.

[formflier]

My wife had similar reaction to any suggestion that it was her.

She is ok with working on herself and being worked on individually for the good of the r/s.  But... anytime it gets anywhere close to you (my wife) have a problem... .she gets prickly.

If she has a problem "because of me... "... then that is ok.

[hurting300]

Yeah I shouldn't have to learn how to deal with someone. I told her what I thought was wrong straight up. Maybe that's why she left.

I can tell you that's why MY BPD left.

Because I told him he was ill, and because he had somehow to "punish" me when admitting he had a problem.

I never told her she was mentally ill. But I did call her a liar, user and cheat. I did not validate bad behavior. I even ask her if we both could go to counseling to work on things. She told me she didn't need it.

[Lucky One]

Yeah I shouldn't have to learn how to deal with someone. I told her what I thought was wrong straight up. Maybe that's why she left.

I can tell you that's why MY BPD left.

Because I told him he was ill, and because he had somehow to "punish" me when admitting he had a problem.

I never told her she was mentally ill. But I did call her a liar, user and cheat. I did not validate bad behavior. I even ask her if we both could go to counseling to work on things. She told me she didn't need it.

When she asked what I was studying when she saw me reading some of the BPD Family articles, I told her I was working on myself. To make myself a better person. It's true, as well. That's all - no further discussion. She liked that.

I started a new study yesterday on the DBT self help site of Marsha Linehan, and read a few articles about pwBPD, by properly qualified (academic) and experienced (research tested) PhD's. BPD family website is spot on - 100 %. Actually it was through them, that I found this other site. So this is a great site, as far as I am concerned.

And, I believe the people who run this site, are amazingly courageous, and truly concerned for the mental health welfare of others. Many, many THANKS for that!

We, those still learning, all just need to take note, that BPD is a truly, horrific, real, genuine sickness. Life threatening sometimes, to the person with it.  And most probably really damaging and severely painful emotionally, to those staying in the relationship with the pwBPD. Sometimes confusing and frustrating, as well.

So, that we, are trying to find a way to continue to live with our pwBPD, says "SOMETHING" about our STRENGTH and CHARACTER. This we should NOT let slip past, our awareness.





 

[waverider]

You dont need head on conflict to stay out of the FOG.

If he has illogical nonsense going on in his head than openly trying make sense out of it can be felt as undermining, by highlighting it as nonsense.

I find I make most headway not by saying, or inferring the problem is "you", the problem is the disorder. As much as possible i try to make it obvious the I dont believe she is a "borderline", but rather she is a person who suffers with "borderline personality disorder". Ie she is not the disorder. If you make the disorder the "bully" and the person a "victim" then that is more palatable and fits in with BPD thinking.

Being clear, consistent and not reactionary while they are fluctuating in chaos around you will help YOU feel better if nothing else. If you feel better than you are less likely to be triggering unecessarily

[Indyan]

Waverider, my BPD does not accept any diagnosis at the moment. He needs to hear it from a respectable psychatrist I guess. Our T as advised him to see a well-known P, but I'm not even sur he'll do it.  :'(

[waverider]

Waverider, my BPD does not accept any diagnosis at the moment. He needs to hear it from a respectable psychatrist I guess. Our T as advised him to see a well-known P, but I'm not even sur he'll do it.  :'(

A diagnosis is not essential, it is awareness that he has "issues'. Once you introduce the idea that the issues are not him per se, but something that is affecting him. It makes him more open to the  idea there is a problem, It is blame/responsibility they dont want to accept.

The more you learn about it the easier it is to link "symptoms", the more validating it is to them that you are "on their side"

[Indyan]

The big trouble is that apparently he doesn't just show PBD traits, but also Schizotypal, and that includes paranoia/victimisation.

Anything we say at the moment is taken as an attack. Maybe only the T can tell him things regarding his mental health, and even there I'm not sure (since he's the T THAT I CHOSE).

If he goes to the psychiatrist and hears the diagnosis, maybe then I will be able to say "this is from your paranoia (his expression)".

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lucky One]

Waverider, my BPD does not accept any diagnosis at the moment. He needs to hear it from a respectable psychatrist I guess. Our T as advised him to see a well-known P, but I'm not even sur he'll do it.  :'(

A diagnosis is not essential, it is awareness that he has "issues'. Once you introduce the idea that the issues are not him per se, but something that is affecting him. It makes him more open to the  idea there is a problem, It is blame/responsibility they dont want to accept.

The more you learn about it the easier it is to link "symptoms", the more validating it is to them that you are "on their side"

I so agree with this.

If you confront a person with these issues, you will only become their enemy.

How do I know this? I used to do it, Not so long ago. I was ENEMY No.1

Now that, I'm CHANGING, things are improving slightly.

I'm not sure where it will end yet, but I'm going to try and use the things that I've learnt on this site, over the last month.

More and more. BUT EVERYTHING GENTLY.

[formflier]

The big trouble is that apparently he doesn't just show PBD traits, but also Schizotypal, and that includes paranoia/victimisation.

Anything we say at the moment is taken as an attack. Maybe only the T can tell him things regarding his mental health, and even there I'm not sure (since he's the T THAT I CHOSE).

If he goes to the psychiatrist and hears the diagnosis, maybe then I will be able to say "this is from your paranoia (his expression)".

Be careful thinking too much about a diagnosis.  On this site... .we teach people how to deal with behaviors... .no how to diagnose or "treat" a mental illness.  A behavior is something that is easily observable and not really debatable.  The "why" behind that behavior is usually incredibly complex.  We are not PhDs or Psychiatrists... .and so should really never try to figure out how to deal with the "diagnosis"... .we should focus on how to deal with a "behavior" or a "trait" that exist in our r/s.

I see that as a big difference.  Others may call it nuance. 

Now... .to Indyan's specific situation.  I would advise not to pin any hopes or dreams on someone saying "I accept the diagnosis of xyz... ".  Most likely there will be pushback about something being wrong for a long time. 

More important that they go to counseling and treatment... .that they participate... .than wanting the to "admit" or "accept" things... .

So... try to help get him to the psychiatrist to "work on things"... .not to get diagnosed... .

[Lucky One]

So... try to help get him to the psychiatrist to "work on things"... .not to get diagnosed... .

I Like what you write and explain.

It took me one year to help my uBPDw to see a psychiatrist and a psychologist.

She dumped the female Psychologist after three visits and the female Psychiatrist after four.

Everyone is different.

And I'm beginning to think, each person with these ailments has a unique set of circumstances, that makes them what they are.

Therefore each, has to be handled to that unique set of circumstances.

Fortunately uBPDw still uses the medication the Psychiatrist prescribed, and I'm changing instead.

In other words, I'm trying to learn that unique way to handle the day to day issues presented by uBPDw. But specific to her.

What do you think?

[waverider]

If you are perceived as trying to pin blame on them (paint them black), which is how they see trying to get them diagnosed as "mad" (as they will perceive it), they will push back.

If you are just helping them to sort out some of the issues that they are finding stressful it is easier for them to accept. Again make them the "victim" of some outer issue rather than the "problem maker".

Its like asking someone to go for a stroll in the fresh air to help feel good about themselves, rather than informing them that your goal for them is to climb Mount Everest so better start intensive training now. It takes lots of little nudges and small goals, or they will give up as its all too hard, and stressful.

They want immediate results, long term planning is not realistic, so to achieve this the results need to be small easy and achievable.

[MissyM]

If you are just helping them to sort out some of the issues that they are finding stressful it is easier for them to accept. Again make them the "victim" of some outer issue rather than the "problem maker".

Yes, I find this to be true for my dBPDh.  Since we are moving in the direction of him having childhood trauma symptoms, he is much more embracing of that than that he has BPD (which somehow places the blame upon him).  In his case, I do believe this is accurate.  According to some new theories many people with BPD traits actually are suffering from childhood trauma.  There are still subsets of people that are just born with BPD and are easily invalidated by their environment.  My dBPDh had severe abuse as a child, as well as neglect from the nonabusive parent.  He is accepting the help of his current therapist, that is taking this approach.  It has taken him a long time to build trust with this therapist and I am starting to see a shift in his thinking. 

[christoff522]

On one hand I have to protect myself (legally, financially, emotionnally) but on the other I'd like to leave a chance for improvement.

But BPD goes on hating me for no reason.

He's not totally giving up on us though, he even arranged MC 2 weeks ago (I know that's a long time... .  )

but his attitude towards me is unchanged. No physical contact, he's very agressive, keeps threatening of anything he can think of (lawyers... .).

I'm sick and tired of all this.

Is there anything I could do to help him get out of this?

I want to say that I've worked LOADS to stop living in FOG - and it's starting to work. I'm not afraid of his threats anymore, they do make me sad though. I try not to feel obliged to do anything, for I've proposed mediation and he hasn't replied so far. And I'm certainly not guilty (anymore), as I've decided not to pay attention to his false accusations (essentially that I don't let him see his baby, which is all rubbish).

First thing, keep your distance, if needs be don't speak to him all day. You could try saying this "I know you need space honey/babe, so I'm going to give it to you, speak to me when you're ready. I love you".

Then just don't have any contact. If you're living together then just let him do his thing. Sleep in the same bed but just don't apply any pressure. Give it a few days, he's probably just deregulating.

Anyway it sounds like you're apart. The best way of dealing with it is distance, just let him know you're there for him and you're not going anywhere. He doesn't hate you, it may seem that way but it's not true, he's just in an emotional slump.

[Indyan]

Thanks to all for your replies.

I stopped reacting to his provocations... .and yes, his behaviour has changed enormously.

A little summary of his provocations:

- 8 days ago, when I learnt he sent a notice letter to the landlord, I didn't react with anger to him. I dealt with the landlord (reassuring him, explaining that the letter with only one signature had no legal value). I phoned BPD's dad while BPD was at work, and explained calmly what I thought of the situation.

- 6 days ago, I mentionned "mediation" and he answered "he wasn't into mediation but court order". I answered calmly that judges like mediation and communicative people.

2 days later he sent me a very courteous message asking whether he could come to see baby, and what day suited me etc.

I don't know whether it was because "judges like communicative people" or if it was a reaction to my non-reaction.

Then for 2 consecutive days he texted me late in the evening (11:30PM and 10:30PM), asking for a copy of the family certificate (of course this stresses me, as he needs it for his lawyer I guess). I didn't answer until late in the morning, saying he already had a copy (which is true).

He came visiting today, and appeared a lot calmer. He spoke politely, asking about when I'd be back in the afternoon etc. Needless to say I was suprised.

He did insist on having a copy of the family book, I gave him a copy. His behaviour flipped again to M. Cold when he spoke about those documents... .

It still breaks my heart to see him like this. He avoids looking in my eyes when talking. At first he looked depressed and confused, and after a few hours with baby he looked cold and in a hurry to go.

Another thing that was a result of my absence of reaction I think, is that he "suggested" to come and stay from 12AM until 7PM (which is a bit long), and I made no comment, just said "ok".

I have to say again that he's on a crusade "to see his baby" (paranoid and victimised - STPD traits) and in the end he arrived at 1PM and left at 4:30PM 

I don't get it really.

If he sends us to court, what does he want to get? I can't make any sense of all this.

[waverider]

A fire ultimately extinguishes itself when there is no more fuel being added.

11th hour withdrawals are common behavior for pwBPD

[Indyan]

11th hour withdrawals are common behavior for pwBPD

Yes, but wouldn't he say something about it?

I mean, he told me he would ask his lawyer about mediation but wasn't into mediation anymore (confusing statement), and in the end says nothing about mediation nor judge.

I didn't ask, there's no point.

I can't help wondering why that obession with the family certificate, as if he needed it urgently. He insisted it be in digital format, as if he needed to send it to someone (lawyer?).

[waverider]

I didn't ask, there's no point.

An answer couldn't be relied on anyway.

What will happen will happen, trying to second guess it will drive you nuts.

[Indyan]

An answer couldn't be relied on anyway.

What will happen will happen, trying to second guess it will drive you nuts.

Absolutely.

[formflier]

I didn't ask, there's no point.

Indyan,

Just wanted to take a few minutes and commend your personal growth... and your growth in knowledge of how to deal with the BPD traits that are causing issues in your r/s.

You are correct that there is no point in asking... .but there is a very important point (goal) in not asking... .can you elaborate on that point (goal)?

[Indyan]

... .but there is a very important point (goal) in not asking... .can you elaborate on that point (goal)?

For me it is feeling and showing no fear. And not giving him the opportunity to projet his negative emotions onto me.

On the other hand, it's accepting that he doesn't function like other people, and giving up the idea of real dialogue.

It feels more like giving up on this right now than like a positive choice on my part.

[christoff522]

... .but there is a very important point (goal) in not asking... .can you elaborate on that point (goal)?

For me it is feeling and showing no fear. And not giving him the opportunity to projet his negative emotions onto me.

On the other hand, it's accepting that he doesn't function like other people, and giving up the idea of real dialogue.

It feels more like giving up on this right now than like a positive choice on my part.

I'll just say this, can you imagine you two sitting on a porch together watching the sun set, when you're old and gray? Can you imagine you two sharing every challenge that life throws at you and growing together in love and trust? I'm not saying fantasise about it, but look at the situation as it really is... can you see that as a viable outcome?

If yes, then continue, if not... you need to question the reality of whether it is giving up, or is in fact you coming to understand the truth of where you currently are.

[waverider]

I'll just say this, can you imagine you two sitting on a porch together watching the sun set, when you're old and gray? Can you imagine you two sharing every challenge that life throws at you and growing together in love and trust? I'm not saying fantasise about it, but look at the situation as it really is... can you see that as a viable outcome?

Funny I went through this very same visualization. We even have a couple of figurine of an old man and an old lady in rocker chairs, and i often thought could that be us, is that realistic?

For a long time it was hard to visualize, but now it seems inevitable.

When you are at the height of drama it is hard to visualize anything other than surviving the immediate crisis. You almost have to be at a stage where you can focus the bigger picture, rather than what is on your plate today, in order to visualize anything.

Until you do find a certain amount of clarity it is hard to distinguish between realistic plans and escapist delusions.

[Indyan]

Funny I went through this very same visualization. We even have a couple of figurine of an old man and an old lady in rocker chairs, and i often thought could that be us, is that realistic?

For a long time it was hard to visualize, but now it seems inevitable.

When you are at the height of drama it is hard to visualize anything other than surviving the immediate crisis. You almost have to be at a stage where you can focus the bigger picture, rather than what is on your plate today, in order to visualize anything.

Until you do find a certain amount of clarity it is hard to distinguish between realistic plans and escapist delusions.

I agree with this.

I can't picture anything anymore - How could I picture anything anyway with someone who has gone crazy?

At the moment I just feel I'm stuck and things are slowly decaying. There's nothing I can do (or so it feels) about this. As my D10 puts it "he's moving further and further away."

[MaroonLiquid]

As my D10 puts it "he's moving further and further away."

I know it seems that way, as that is they way I feel sometimes.  Don't look at how you "feel", as feelings are like waves and will mislead you.  Instead, just focus on what you can focus on... .Yesterday, my feelings were difficult to deal with, but didn't let them "lead my actions".  Instead, just dealing with the emotions of the situation.  Those too shall pass... .

[Indyan]

Those too shall pass... .

I can't help thinking about all this all day. When I wake up it falls on me within seconds. I recall the T telling me BPD/STPD needs treatment urgently.

[MaroonLiquid]

Those too shall pass... .

I can't help thinking about all this all day. When I wake up it falls on me within seconds. I recall the T telling me BPD/STPD needs treatment urgently.

I know what you mean.  And now I know why they say on this site to focus on yourself during that time.  The painting black is an outward expression of their inward storm.  You can't change it, but you can choose how you respond to it.  I found not responding or defending yourself is better than anything.  I believe part of the painting black is "response driven".  It's almost like they want you to start going to all these people and try and make them look bad, and all it does is make you crazy (defending the truth) and look crazy.  I tried once with my MIL when all this first started and she said, "I don't want to get involved", but then asked me if what my wife said was true.  I said, "No", but her mind was already made up.  My wife has painted me black to all of her family and a few of her "close friends" (who she always complained about).  The sad thing is, the things she has accused me of, they know me well enough that I wouldn't do those things.  Yet, no calls to see what my side is.  The way I look at it, there are two sides to every story, and most people aren't interested in both sides... .Especially since they're her friends and family.  It's easier to go along with her than be responsible for trying to find out the truth as that would make them responsible for it. 

[Indyan]

Yes Maroon, you're very right. They are not interested in hearing both sides.

But here they're gonna have to because I can't be the only one who knows that he has a BIG problem, namely that he might be schizophrenic. I've sent a message to his sister, she replied that she'll call me next week, when she's back from holidays.

I can't do more than I've done.

Anyway, following my change in attitude (i.e no reaction), he became very "polite" last week.

But this week, NOTHING.

Ok, it feels good not to be harassed but nothing worries me.

He normally starts asking for news on Tuesdays or saying he needs to get organized for visiting baby at the week end. But I got nothing since his visit on Saturday.

This week his parents are away, so he's alone at their house. I've no idea whether this has an effect on him.

I guess his chauffeur (his dad) is not available to come this week-end... .but one way or another, he could have told me... .

[hurting300]

Yes Maroon, you're very right. They are not interested in hearing both sides.

But here they're gonna have to because I can't be the only one who knows that he has a BIG problem, namely that he might be schizophrenic. I've sent a message to his sister, she replied that she'll call me next week, when she's back from holidays.

I can't do more than I've done.

Anyway, following my change in attitude (i.e no reaction), he became very "polite" last week.

But this week, NOTHING.

Ok, it feels good not to be harassed but nothing worries me.

He normally starts asking for news on Tuesdays or saying he needs to get organized for visiting baby at the week end. But I got nothing since his visit on Saturday.

This week his parents are away, so he's alone at their house. I've no idea whether this has an effect on him.

I guess his chauffeur (his dad) is not available to come this week-end... .but one way or another, he could have told me... .

I hope everything works out for you.

[Indyan]

I hope everything works out for you.

Thanks, the same goes to you