What can I do to make him stop painting me black?

[Indyan]

The big trouble is that apparently he doesn't just show PBD traits, but also Schizotypal, and that includes paranoia/victimisation.

Anything we say at the moment is taken as an attack. Maybe only the T can tell him things regarding his mental health, and even there I'm not sure (since he's the T THAT I CHOSE).

If he goes to the psychiatrist and hears the diagnosis, maybe then I will be able to say "this is from your paranoia (his expression)".

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Lucky One]

Waverider, my BPD does not accept any diagnosis at the moment. He needs to hear it from a respectable psychatrist I guess. Our T as advised him to see a well-known P, but I'm not even sur he'll do it.  :'(

A diagnosis is not essential, it is awareness that he has "issues'. Once you introduce the idea that the issues are not him per se, but something that is affecting him. It makes him more open to the  idea there is a problem, It is blame/responsibility they dont want to accept.

The more you learn about it the easier it is to link "symptoms", the more validating it is to them that you are "on their side"

I so agree with this.

If you confront a person with these issues, you will only become their enemy.

How do I know this? I used to do it, Not so long ago. I was ENEMY No.1

Now that, I'm CHANGING, things are improving slightly.

I'm not sure where it will end yet, but I'm going to try and use the things that I've learnt on this site, over the last month.

More and more. BUT EVERYTHING GENTLY.

[formflier]

The big trouble is that apparently he doesn't just show PBD traits, but also Schizotypal, and that includes paranoia/victimisation.

Anything we say at the moment is taken as an attack. Maybe only the T can tell him things regarding his mental health, and even there I'm not sure (since he's the T THAT I CHOSE).

If he goes to the psychiatrist and hears the diagnosis, maybe then I will be able to say "this is from your paranoia (his expression)".

Be careful thinking too much about a diagnosis.  On this site... .we teach people how to deal with behaviors... .no how to diagnose or "treat" a mental illness.  A behavior is something that is easily observable and not really debatable.  The "why" behind that behavior is usually incredibly complex.  We are not PhDs or Psychiatrists... .and so should really never try to figure out how to deal with the "diagnosis"... .we should focus on how to deal with a "behavior" or a "trait" that exist in our r/s.

I see that as a big difference.  Others may call it nuance. 

Now... .to Indyan's specific situation.  I would advise not to pin any hopes or dreams on someone saying "I accept the diagnosis of xyz... ".  Most likely there will be pushback about something being wrong for a long time. 

More important that they go to counseling and treatment... .that they participate... .than wanting the to "admit" or "accept" things... .

So... try to help get him to the psychiatrist to "work on things"... .not to get diagnosed... .

[Lucky One]

So... try to help get him to the psychiatrist to "work on things"... .not to get diagnosed... .

I Like what you write and explain.

It took me one year to help my uBPDw to see a psychiatrist and a psychologist.

She dumped the female Psychologist after three visits and the female Psychiatrist after four.

Everyone is different.

And I'm beginning to think, each person with these ailments has a unique set of circumstances, that makes them what they are.

Therefore each, has to be handled to that unique set of circumstances.

Fortunately uBPDw still uses the medication the Psychiatrist prescribed, and I'm changing instead.

In other words, I'm trying to learn that unique way to handle the day to day issues presented by uBPDw. But specific to her.

What do you think?

[waverider]

If you are perceived as trying to pin blame on them (paint them black), which is how they see trying to get them diagnosed as "mad" (as they will perceive it), they will push back.

If you are just helping them to sort out some of the issues that they are finding stressful it is easier for them to accept. Again make them the "victim" of some outer issue rather than the "problem maker".

Its like asking someone to go for a stroll in the fresh air to help feel good about themselves, rather than informing them that your goal for them is to climb Mount Everest so better start intensive training now. It takes lots of little nudges and small goals, or they will give up as its all too hard, and stressful.

They want immediate results, long term planning is not realistic, so to achieve this the results need to be small easy and achievable.

[MissyM]

If you are just helping them to sort out some of the issues that they are finding stressful it is easier for them to accept. Again make them the "victim" of some outer issue rather than the "problem maker".

Yes, I find this to be true for my dBPDh.  Since we are moving in the direction of him having childhood trauma symptoms, he is much more embracing of that than that he has BPD (which somehow places the blame upon him).  In his case, I do believe this is accurate.  According to some new theories many people with BPD traits actually are suffering from childhood trauma.  There are still subsets of people that are just born with BPD and are easily invalidated by their environment.  My dBPDh had severe abuse as a child, as well as neglect from the nonabusive parent.  He is accepting the help of his current therapist, that is taking this approach.  It has taken him a long time to build trust with this therapist and I am starting to see a shift in his thinking. 

[christoff522]

On one hand I have to protect myself (legally, financially, emotionnally) but on the other I'd like to leave a chance for improvement.

But BPD goes on hating me for no reason.

He's not totally giving up on us though, he even arranged MC 2 weeks ago (I know that's a long time... .  )

but his attitude towards me is unchanged. No physical contact, he's very agressive, keeps threatening of anything he can think of (lawyers... .).

I'm sick and tired of all this.

Is there anything I could do to help him get out of this?

I want to say that I've worked LOADS to stop living in FOG - and it's starting to work. I'm not afraid of his threats anymore, they do make me sad though. I try not to feel obliged to do anything, for I've proposed mediation and he hasn't replied so far. And I'm certainly not guilty (anymore), as I've decided not to pay attention to his false accusations (essentially that I don't let him see his baby, which is all rubbish).

First thing, keep your distance, if needs be don't speak to him all day. You could try saying this "I know you need space honey/babe, so I'm going to give it to you, speak to me when you're ready. I love you".

Then just don't have any contact. If you're living together then just let him do his thing. Sleep in the same bed but just don't apply any pressure. Give it a few days, he's probably just deregulating.

Anyway it sounds like you're apart. The best way of dealing with it is distance, just let him know you're there for him and you're not going anywhere. He doesn't hate you, it may seem that way but it's not true, he's just in an emotional slump.

[Indyan]

Thanks to all for your replies.

I stopped reacting to his provocations... .and yes, his behaviour has changed enormously.

A little summary of his provocations:

- 8 days ago, when I learnt he sent a notice letter to the landlord, I didn't react with anger to him. I dealt with the landlord (reassuring him, explaining that the letter with only one signature had no legal value). I phoned BPD's dad while BPD was at work, and explained calmly what I thought of the situation.

- 6 days ago, I mentionned "mediation" and he answered "he wasn't into mediation but court order". I answered calmly that judges like mediation and communicative people.

2 days later he sent me a very courteous message asking whether he could come to see baby, and what day suited me etc.

I don't know whether it was because "judges like communicative people" or if it was a reaction to my non-reaction.

Then for 2 consecutive days he texted me late in the evening (11:30PM and 10:30PM), asking for a copy of the family certificate (of course this stresses me, as he needs it for his lawyer I guess). I didn't answer until late in the morning, saying he already had a copy (which is true).

He came visiting today, and appeared a lot calmer. He spoke politely, asking about when I'd be back in the afternoon etc. Needless to say I was suprised.

He did insist on having a copy of the family book, I gave him a copy. His behaviour flipped again to M. Cold when he spoke about those documents... .

It still breaks my heart to see him like this. He avoids looking in my eyes when talking. At first he looked depressed and confused, and after a few hours with baby he looked cold and in a hurry to go.

Another thing that was a result of my absence of reaction I think, is that he "suggested" to come and stay from 12AM until 7PM (which is a bit long), and I made no comment, just said "ok".

I have to say again that he's on a crusade "to see his baby" (paranoid and victimised - STPD traits) and in the end he arrived at 1PM and left at 4:30PM 

I don't get it really.

If he sends us to court, what does he want to get? I can't make any sense of all this.

[waverider]

A fire ultimately extinguishes itself when there is no more fuel being added.

11th hour withdrawals are common behavior for pwBPD

[Indyan]

11th hour withdrawals are common behavior for pwBPD

Yes, but wouldn't he say something about it?

I mean, he told me he would ask his lawyer about mediation but wasn't into mediation anymore (confusing statement), and in the end says nothing about mediation nor judge.

I didn't ask, there's no point.

I can't help wondering why that obession with the family certificate, as if he needed it urgently. He insisted it be in digital format, as if he needed to send it to someone (lawyer?).

[waverider]

I didn't ask, there's no point.

An answer couldn't be relied on anyway.

What will happen will happen, trying to second guess it will drive you nuts.

[Indyan]

An answer couldn't be relied on anyway.

What will happen will happen, trying to second guess it will drive you nuts.

Absolutely.

[formflier]

I didn't ask, there's no point.

Indyan,

Just wanted to take a few minutes and commend your personal growth... and your growth in knowledge of how to deal with the BPD traits that are causing issues in your r/s.

You are correct that there is no point in asking... .but there is a very important point (goal) in not asking... .can you elaborate on that point (goal)?

[Indyan]

... .but there is a very important point (goal) in not asking... .can you elaborate on that point (goal)?

For me it is feeling and showing no fear. And not giving him the opportunity to projet his negative emotions onto me.

On the other hand, it's accepting that he doesn't function like other people, and giving up the idea of real dialogue.

It feels more like giving up on this right now than like a positive choice on my part.

[christoff522]

... .but there is a very important point (goal) in not asking... .can you elaborate on that point (goal)?

For me it is feeling and showing no fear. And not giving him the opportunity to projet his negative emotions onto me.

On the other hand, it's accepting that he doesn't function like other people, and giving up the idea of real dialogue.

It feels more like giving up on this right now than like a positive choice on my part.

I'll just say this, can you imagine you two sitting on a porch together watching the sun set, when you're old and gray? Can you imagine you two sharing every challenge that life throws at you and growing together in love and trust? I'm not saying fantasise about it, but look at the situation as it really is... can you see that as a viable outcome?

If yes, then continue, if not... you need to question the reality of whether it is giving up, or is in fact you coming to understand the truth of where you currently are.

[waverider]

I'll just say this, can you imagine you two sitting on a porch together watching the sun set, when you're old and gray? Can you imagine you two sharing every challenge that life throws at you and growing together in love and trust? I'm not saying fantasise about it, but look at the situation as it really is... can you see that as a viable outcome?

Funny I went through this very same visualization. We even have a couple of figurine of an old man and an old lady in rocker chairs, and i often thought could that be us, is that realistic?

For a long time it was hard to visualize, but now it seems inevitable.

When you are at the height of drama it is hard to visualize anything other than surviving the immediate crisis. You almost have to be at a stage where you can focus the bigger picture, rather than what is on your plate today, in order to visualize anything.

Until you do find a certain amount of clarity it is hard to distinguish between realistic plans and escapist delusions.

[Indyan]

Funny I went through this very same visualization. We even have a couple of figurine of an old man and an old lady in rocker chairs, and i often thought could that be us, is that realistic?

For a long time it was hard to visualize, but now it seems inevitable.

When you are at the height of drama it is hard to visualize anything other than surviving the immediate crisis. You almost have to be at a stage where you can focus the bigger picture, rather than what is on your plate today, in order to visualize anything.

Until you do find a certain amount of clarity it is hard to distinguish between realistic plans and escapist delusions.

I agree with this.

I can't picture anything anymore - How could I picture anything anyway with someone who has gone crazy?

At the moment I just feel I'm stuck and things are slowly decaying. There's nothing I can do (or so it feels) about this. As my D10 puts it "he's moving further and further away."

[MaroonLiquid]

As my D10 puts it "he's moving further and further away."

I know it seems that way, as that is they way I feel sometimes.  Don't look at how you "feel", as feelings are like waves and will mislead you.  Instead, just focus on what you can focus on... .Yesterday, my feelings were difficult to deal with, but didn't let them "lead my actions".  Instead, just dealing with the emotions of the situation.  Those too shall pass... .

[Indyan]

Those too shall pass... .

I can't help thinking about all this all day. When I wake up it falls on me within seconds. I recall the T telling me BPD/STPD needs treatment urgently.

[MaroonLiquid]

Those too shall pass... .

I can't help thinking about all this all day. When I wake up it falls on me within seconds. I recall the T telling me BPD/STPD needs treatment urgently.

I know what you mean.  And now I know why they say on this site to focus on yourself during that time.  The painting black is an outward expression of their inward storm.  You can't change it, but you can choose how you respond to it.  I found not responding or defending yourself is better than anything.  I believe part of the painting black is "response driven".  It's almost like they want you to start going to all these people and try and make them look bad, and all it does is make you crazy (defending the truth) and look crazy.  I tried once with my MIL when all this first started and she said, "I don't want to get involved", but then asked me if what my wife said was true.  I said, "No", but her mind was already made up.  My wife has painted me black to all of her family and a few of her "close friends" (who she always complained about).  The sad thing is, the things she has accused me of, they know me well enough that I wouldn't do those things.  Yet, no calls to see what my side is.  The way I look at it, there are two sides to every story, and most people aren't interested in both sides... .Especially since they're her friends and family.  It's easier to go along with her than be responsible for trying to find out the truth as that would make them responsible for it. 

[Indyan]

Yes Maroon, you're very right. They are not interested in hearing both sides.

But here they're gonna have to because I can't be the only one who knows that he has a BIG problem, namely that he might be schizophrenic. I've sent a message to his sister, she replied that she'll call me next week, when she's back from holidays.

I can't do more than I've done.

Anyway, following my change in attitude (i.e no reaction), he became very "polite" last week.

But this week, NOTHING.

Ok, it feels good not to be harassed but nothing worries me.

He normally starts asking for news on Tuesdays or saying he needs to get organized for visiting baby at the week end. But I got nothing since his visit on Saturday.

This week his parents are away, so he's alone at their house. I've no idea whether this has an effect on him.

I guess his chauffeur (his dad) is not available to come this week-end... .but one way or another, he could have told me... .

[hurting300]

Yes Maroon, you're very right. They are not interested in hearing both sides.

But here they're gonna have to because I can't be the only one who knows that he has a BIG problem, namely that he might be schizophrenic. I've sent a message to his sister, she replied that she'll call me next week, when she's back from holidays.

I can't do more than I've done.

Anyway, following my change in attitude (i.e no reaction), he became very "polite" last week.

But this week, NOTHING.

Ok, it feels good not to be harassed but nothing worries me.

He normally starts asking for news on Tuesdays or saying he needs to get organized for visiting baby at the week end. But I got nothing since his visit on Saturday.

This week his parents are away, so he's alone at their house. I've no idea whether this has an effect on him.

I guess his chauffeur (his dad) is not available to come this week-end... .but one way or another, he could have told me... .

I hope everything works out for you.

[Indyan]

I hope everything works out for you.

Thanks, the same goes to you