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Author Topic: Just found a hotel receipt...  (Read 442 times)
Mr. Solo
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« on: October 15, 2014, 04:49:52 PM »

My wife and I are separated and we are supposedly working on things slowly. A few weeks ago, I let her borrow my car to travel to the mountains for a day to take pictures (she is a photographer). She was calling it a "mental day." She was supposed to come back in time to pick up the kids from school but called me shortly before it was time to pick them up to tell me she wasn't going to be back in time but she was on her way back. Where she supposedly went is about an hour away. I say supposedly because she texted me while she was up there saying she was having a great time and really needed the trip to think and relax. She talked about her taking some pictures. Well, she came back about three hours after she asked me to get the kids. It should not have taken her that long. She gave me a story about how she got lost and ended up coming back a weird way. I said nothing just to see what she would say. When she got to my home to pick up the kids from me, she was visibly upset. She had been crying. I did ask her why she was so upset. She said she didn't want to go home (because her friend next door makes her life hell). I don't know. I didn't know if I was being paranoid or what. So, while sitting there waiting on the kids to get in the car, she told me, "My phone is dead or I would show you the pictures I took." That's cool except she had her professional camera with her. Why would she be taking them with her phone? It just FELT strange. My instincts were telling me she didn't go where she said and went to see her friend, whom she had an emotional affair with, about two hours away from our town. I didn't want to accuse her of anything so I didn't say anything. I still have not said anything but I have asked to see the pictures she took on that trip a few times but she will not show me. It is odd because she normally is excited to show me. She says they aren't very good but, as I told her, she always says that and shows me anyways. She keeps stalling.

So, this past weekend, I let her borrow my car again (hers is in the shop) and she went back to the mountains for her birthday. I paid for a hotel room so she could stay overnight without returning home. She stayed the weekend and returned home. This time she showed me the pictures and everything. I felt uneasy about it. Something just didn't seem right. I really didn't know what it was. So, today, I was looking through my glove compartment and saw what looked like a traffic ticket. It turned out to be the receipt for the hotel she stayed in. As I was reading to see what it was, I saw where it read, "Guests: 2." She was supposed to be alone. She said she was alone. I asked her about it a few minutes ago and she said, "I don't know why the lady wrote that. She asked me if I was alone and I said yes. She must have misunderstood me." I admit that it entirely possible but this is the kid of stuff she would do before when she was cheating on me. It was always someone called the wrong number or sent a text to the wrong number or wrote stuff down wrong or got her mixed up with someone else. Honestly, it makes me want to call the hotel and ask about it. It is a small, local hotel so I would guess someone would remember something.

I have told her we are separated and I am not telling her what to do or not to do but I just want her to be honest. I feel like this is shady but I am not sure if it is just me being paranoid or not.
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walksoftly
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 06:11:02 PM »

Ok,

if you are separated then you both need to understand boundaries-can you both date? What was the agreement?

The best way to know if she is cheating is to check her texts in her bill. You cant see the content but you can see the number of calls and to whom they were made. Thats how I found out.

The next time she leaves you could ask where she is staying and then call the hotel or go there yourself.

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Mr. Solo
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 06:43:22 PM »

Ok,

if you are separated then you both need to understand boundaries-can you both date? What was the agreement?

The best way to know if she is cheating is to check her texts in her bill. You cant see the content but you can see the number of calls and to whom they were made. Thats how I found out.

The next time she leaves you could ask where she is staying and then call the hotel or go there yourself.

We have agreed not to date. I cannot check records or anything like that. We are separated and, over the years, she has locked me out of things like that anyways because she was unable to cover her "paper trail" effectively otherwise. Right now she has her own cell account and I don't have access. It wouldn't do any good anyways. The woman I would guess she met communicates with her constantly so nothing would stand out. A previous lover also calls and texts her (although she claims she doesn't answer/reply). I called the hotel. The woman who worked the night my wife checked in is supposed to call me tomorrow morning. LOL.
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Mr. Solo
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 06:48:47 PM »

The next time she leaves you could ask where she is staying and then call the hotel or go there yourself.

I knew where she was staying. She even sent me pictures of the hotel (sign, lobby, room, balcony, etc.).
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maxsterling
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2014, 07:38:45 PM »

You know, if I were in a r/s (BPD or not), and I had enough suspicion that my partner was cheating, I'd take my suspicion as a warning that whether she actually was cheating or not, I wouldn't be happy in the r/s going forward.   
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Mr. Solo
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2014, 11:50:03 PM »

You know, if I were in a r/s (BPD or not), and I had enough suspicion that my partner was cheating, I'd take my suspicion as a warning that whether she actually was cheating or not, I wouldn't be happy in the r/s going forward.   

I understand what you are saying. However, wonder if she isn't? Wonder if I am just being paranoid? Because of everything that has happened, I have been paranoid before. Many times my instincts were correct but there have been a few times they weren't. I understand a relationship cannot function this way and that's something I (we) have had to work on.
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formflier
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2014, 06:42:33 AM »

You know, if I were in a r/s (BPD or not), and I had enough suspicion that my partner was cheating, I'd take my suspicion as a warning that whether she actually was cheating or not, I wouldn't be happy in the r/s going forward.   

I understand what you are saying. However, wonder if she isn't? Wonder if I am just being paranoid? Because of everything that has happened, I have been paranoid before. Many times my instincts were correct but there have been a few times they weren't. I understand a relationship cannot function this way and that's something I (we) have had to work on.

Since they are your feelings... .I would put this in the primarily you working on your feelings.

First... .do you want to be separated or together?  Then make sure that you maximize the signals that you send to her that line up with what you want to do.

Understand that the more "extras" that you add to each decision... .  Such as I want to be separated... but I want you to be honest with me... .  add complications.  Adding complication and nuance to a r/s where a person displays traits of BPD... .adds even more complication... .

So... hopefully now you can follow why I suggest figuring out first what you want... and pour all of your energy into that.

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Mr. Solo
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2014, 10:58:55 AM »

You know, if I were in a r/s (BPD or not), and I had enough suspicion that my partner was cheating, I'd take my suspicion as a warning that whether she actually was cheating or not, I wouldn't be happy in the r/s going forward.   

I understand what you are saying. However, wonder if she isn't? Wonder if I am just being paranoid? Because of everything that has happened, I have been paranoid before. Many times my instincts were correct but there have been a few times they weren't. I understand a relationship cannot function this way and that's something I (we) have had to work on.

Since they are your feelings... .I would put this in the primarily you working on your feelings.

First... .do you want to be separated or together?  Then make sure that you maximize the signals that you send to her that line up with what you want to do.

Understand that the more "extras" that you add to each decision... .  Such as I want to be separated... but I want you to be honest with me... .  add complications.  Adding complication and nuance to a r/s where a person displays traits of BPD... .adds even more complication... .

So... hopefully now you can follow why I suggest figuring out first what you want... and pour all of your energy into that.

I do not want to be separated. I have made this very clear.
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formflier
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2014, 11:47:31 AM »

I do not want to be separated. I have made this very clear.

Good... .so then I would figure out how to say that in a positive light... .without using a "negative" (not)... .

So... I want to be married to you and live with you... .have a loving... .caring relationship with you.

If you can make the vast majority of your actions and words and thoughts line up behind that... .then that message should come through loud and clear to her.  Whether she reciprocates is on here... .your responsibility is to send the correct message and to make sure your actions and words are consistent with that.

Bringing up things on a receipt or appearing to conduct investigations into your wife's whereabouts could be construed by her as an inconsistent message about wanting to be with her. 

I'm not saying it is... .just that it could be... .and you should be clear in your mind about what signals you want to be sending.

If it is more important that she "be honest" with you that if you guys are together... .then make sure that the signals you send her reflect that decision.

Final note:  pwBPD traits will sometimes ignore or challenge crystal clear signals... .that is on them... .not you.  Just be prepared for a statement or challenge that you aren't being clear... .when you actually are.  If this happens... don't take the bait... .

Just say... "I'm sorry you feel that way... ."  "help me understand the part that is not clear... ."  etc etc

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MissyM
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2014, 12:13:50 PM »

Excerpt
Bringing up things on a receipt or appearing to conduct investigations into your wife's whereabouts could be construed by her as an inconsistent message about wanting to be with her. 

I have had a lot of experience with infidelity and BPD, although my husband is a diagnosed sex addict.  In my opinion, confrontation at this point would not be helpful.  However, finding the information out for yourself and validating your own reality is a normal,healthy coping mechanism.  Thought has kind of changed on that in the therapeutic community over the last couple of years, it is only a problem when it becomes obsessive checking.  When traumatized by a spouses infidelity, trying to figure out what is going on is a normal response. The issue comes in because BPDs lie about what they are doing and it is a mind game that can leave a spouse feeling confused and vulnerable. 
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2014, 01:49:21 PM »

  However, finding the information out for yourself and validating your own reality is a normal,healthy coping mechanism.  

I completely agree... .just to be clear.  Having information... .getting information about "the truth" is great.  Letting your pwBPD know that you have it... .or being discovered while snooping for it... should be avoided.
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Mr. Solo
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2014, 01:59:48 PM »

Excerpt
Bringing up things on a receipt or appearing to conduct investigations into your wife's whereabouts could be construed by her as an inconsistent message about wanting to be with her. 

I have had a lot of experience with infidelity and BPD, although my husband is a diagnosed sex addict.  In my opinion, confrontation at this point would not be helpful.  However, finding the information out for yourself and validating your own reality is a normal,healthy coping mechanism.  Thought has kind of changed on that in the therapeutic community over the last couple of years, it is only a problem when it becomes obsessive checking.  When traumatized by a spouses infidelity, trying to figure out what is going on is a normal response. The issue comes in because BPDs lie about what they are doing and it is a mind game that can leave a spouse feeling confused and vulnerable. 

Right. At this point, I am not going to confront her with it. I called the hotel and they said they don't remember. I won't mention it again since I do not know what really happened. I was only trying to find out because I do not want to be used. We are separated but I still pay some of her bills and stuff like that. If she is not being honest with me about us working things out, and especially if she is seeing someone behind my back, I don't want to be putting forth the effort to work things out only for her to be dragging me along for the ride until she doesn't need me any longer.

I do not check up on her like I did when we were together. I take her word for things and only investigate if something doesn't seem kosher. It has been very rare since we separated. Now, when we were still together, yes, I was checking everything I could after the affair in 2010 but I had even gotten beyond that the last year or so before she left. I usually knew when something was off with her because she would start hiding her phone when she slept, hiding her laptop screen from me while she was online, using cash to buy things instead of using our debit card, stuff like that. She made me feel paranoid, and I was somewhat, but I had plenty of reasons to be. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Mr. Solo
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2014, 02:03:04 PM »

  However, finding the information out for yourself and validating your own reality is a normal,healthy coping mechanism.  

I completely agree... .just to be clear.  Having information... .getting information about "the truth" is great.  Letting your pwBPD know that you have it... .or being discovered while snooping for it... should be avoided.

Right. I asked her about it once and that is it. I didn't even let her know what I was thinking overall. She didn't know I called. All she knows is I found the receipt looking in my glove compartment and I noticed it said there were two guests.
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Indyan
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2014, 02:49:40 PM »

I do not want to be separated. I have made this very clear.

We're in more or less similar situations.

May I ask... .has your wife also made clear that she doesn't want to be separated?

How long have you been living apart?

Here, it's hard. BPD's staying at his parents'. He's just told me he's visiting an appartment tomorrow... .

I've no idea what he wants. We went to MC 10 days ago, but right afterwards he said he wanted our r/s to be over.

I find it hard to make things clear on my part too. I feel like I'm sending contradicting signals. "I don't want to separate" and "tell me when you come visit" (he scared my D10, so I need to get organized for her to be away as much as possible); "we need to improve our communication and our r/s" and "don't contact me before mediation" (after verbal abuse).

I don't know how to make it clear while giving him the space to make his own decisions... .

How do you manage?
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walksoftly
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2014, 03:00:05 PM »

I always suspected my ex was cheating on me... she seemed so attracted and sometimes infatuated with other men. I was always taken aback when we would go to dinner party's and her work mates (that I didnt know) would talk to her for long stretches at a time... these were all older men who had absolutely no interest in speaking with me. It made me wonder what kind of signals she was sending out.  If I became jealous she would accuse me of being controlling and if I didnt become jealous then she would continue to test me.

Its incredibly easy to find out if she is cheating. You have a right to know if this is happening and I would suggest following her next time. This is not stalking, you just dont want to be made into a fool.Try not to become obsessed with it- but you do need to know one way or the other. If you are constantly worrying about it then just ask her and try to have a discussion.

I found out mine was cheating and she denied it... I realized later that she had several romantic affairs prior to leaving me for her current partner.
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Indyan
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2014, 03:10:26 PM »

I would suggest following her next time.

That's pretty complicated when someone goes to the mountains.

Smiling (click to insert in post)
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yeeter
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 08:37:55 AM »

Im not a big advocate of following people, or hiring detectives, or snooping around to learn if a partner is 'cheating' or not.  Because Im not sure it matters to me.

Instead, it matters to me if I feel a sense of trust with that person.  And whether they care about our mutual trust.  If not, then its not much of a relationship and I have to question whether its something I want to get into (or be in).

Besides, if you start the detective bit then its kinda saying that as long as I dont catch you, then whatever you are doing is fair game.

Thats not how it works for me.  Even if my partner is NOT doing something, if I feel they might be then it needs to be discussed and the air cleared, to both our satisfaction.

And I know this doesnt really work if there is history to mistrust.  But in that case, the partner needs to do everything possible (within reason) to make the other person feel ok about it.  Because there is high chance of the pattern repeating.  Turning it around though, this side is where many of us fail, because we start doing 'unreasonable' things just to satisfy our partners emotions.  A balance needs struck and family/friends can help ground it.

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LilHurt420
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2014, 12:17:32 PM »

My uBPDh cheated for years and I only found out the extent of it after we got married.  He is faithful now, but I too always get suspicions when things don't add up.  I never know if it's just me thinking about how things were in the past, or if it's truly something I should act on.

I understand how you feel... .but don't any advice. Sorry!
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2014, 07:40:13 PM »

OK, let me see if I understand your situation correctly:

You and your wife are separated, but both agreed not to date.

You would like to get back together.

You really don't know what she wants, it may vary from day to day... .but today she seems to be keeping a lot of distance from you.

And now you have suspicions that she might be cheating on you, but don't know.

I understand what you are saying. However, wonder if she isn't? Wonder if I am just being paranoid? Because of everything that has happened, I have been paranoid before. Many times my instincts were correct but there have been a few times they weren't. I understand a relationship cannot function this way and that's something I (we) have had to work on.

From a practical point of view, consider the possibilities:

1. She is seeing somebody else.

I'd guess that you wouldn't want to get back together with her in this case. If she is and continues, odds are you will find out sooner or later... .there will be more things to conceal... .

Until you start re-connecting it is not really relevant anyway.

2. She isn't seeing somebody else.

In this case, grilling her will just hurt your chances of getting back together, as it will be invalidating and upsetting to her.

3. She decides not to re-connect with you ever.

In this case, I don't know that it matters whether she is seeing somebody else or not... .and once she decides that, it isn't your business anyway.

In conclusion... .paying attention to clues makes sense for you, but saying anything challenging about it probably won't bring a better outcome for you or the r/s.
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