don't know if I am overreacting

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

S4.5 started this many months ago where he kisses our butts, literally. It's nothing sexual, but it bothered me enough that I asked to not do it. I talked to his mom about it and she said she tells him to not do it either. S4 said no one taught him this, and I'm not sure where he came up with it.

After about two months of not doing it, he was doing it again tonight. I asked who else was was doing this to and he said mommy, and the name he calls his mom's bf. They don't live together (my replacement is an undergrad at a local college and lives on campus). I asked him what mommy said, and he said she said nothing. Then added that the guy is funny. I said that he shouldn't be doing this in the first place, but if he was, only to family. He said, "mommy's family." I said yes, and added that the other guy isn't. He then asked if I did that to my mom when I was his age and I said no. I only kissed her on the lips or mouth. He seemed to accept that.

I'm obviously a biased reporter here, but wonder if I am overreacting. I was contemplating sending her an email (not now, but tomorrow after my emotions have subsidex), but I'm not sure that's right either. My Ex is still driven a little by shame, and in a weird way, still tries to gain my approval that she's being a good mom. I do know that she hides things from me regarding the kids, like last week when D2 was sick. She forbade her mom from giving D2 Tylenol when D2's throat was sore and swollen enough that she couldn't stick out her tongue. My exMIL and my Ex's eldest brother appealed to me, and I said of course dose her (half an hour later, D2 was much less miserable, go figure). I didn't communicate with my Ex on this as to what was her thinking at the time.

Regarding S4, maybe there's nothing I can do other than to keep good communication with him, and as his cognitive capacity develops, that will get better.

D2 asked to call me this morning when she awoke. In the 8 months since their mom moved out, the kids have asked her to call me about 2-3 times per month on her time. D2 only asked to call her mom once on my time, which was two weeks ago. I knew she was triangulating because I asked her to do something she didn't like, but I acquiesced all the same because I was happy one of them finally asked. S4 has never asked to call his mom. I guess that says a lot right there.

[Turkish]

S4.5 started this many months ago where he kisses our butts, literally. It's nothing sexual, but it bothered me enough that I asked to not do it. I talked to his mom about it and she said she tells him to not do it either. S4 said no one taught him this, and I'm not sure where he came up with it.

After about two months of not doing it, he was doing it again tonight. I asked who else was was doing this to and he said mommy, and the name he calls his mom's bf. They don't live together (my replacement is an undergrad at a local college and lives on campus). I asked him what mommy said, and he said she said nothing. Then added that the guy is funny. I said that he shouldn't be doing this in the first place, but if he was, only to family. He said, "mommy's family." I said yes, and added that the other guy isn't. He then asked if I did that to my mom when I was his age and I said no. I only kissed her on the lips or mouth. He seemed to accept that.

I'm obviously a biased reporter here, but wonder if I am overreacting. I was contemplating sending her an email (not now, but tomorrow after my emotions have subsidex), but I'm not sure that's right either. My Ex is still driven a little by shame, and in a weird way, still tries to gain my approval that she's being a good mom. I do know that she hides things from me regarding the kids, like last week when D2 was sick. She forbade her mom from giving D2 Tylenol when D2's throat was sore and swollen enough that she couldn't stick out her tongue. My exMIL and my Ex's eldest brother appealed to me, and I said of course dose her (half an hour later, D2 was much less miserable, go figure). I didn't communicate with my Ex on this as to what was her thinking at the time.

Regarding S4, maybe there's nothing I can do other than to keep good communication with him, and as his cognitive capacity develops, that will get better.

D2 asked to call me this morning when she awoke. In the 8 months since their mom moved out, the kids have asked her to call me about 2-3 times per month on her time. D2 only asked to call her mom once on my time, which was two weeks ago. I knew she was triangulating because I asked her to do something she didn't like, but I acquiesced all the same because I was happy one of them finally asked. S4 has never asked to call his mom. I guess that says a lot right there.

[momtara]

So you think S4 is kissing the new boyfriend's butt, or mommy's butt, or they are kissing his?  Or is S4 watching mom kiss boyfriend's butt?

It may have been one time.  I'd wait and see if it comes up again. 

Your kids are the same ages as mine.  I get nervous about this stuff too.

And, wow, she picked up an undergrad?

[Turkish]

So you think S4 is kissing the new boyfriend's butt, or mommy's butt, or they are kissing his?  Or is S4 watching mom kiss boyfriend's butt?

It may have been one time.  I'd wait and see if it comes up again. 

Your kids are the same ages as mine.  I get nervous about this stuff too.

And, wow, she picked up an undergrad?

I am pretty sure he isn't watching that with them she hasn't been honest with the kids having introduced him likely within a week or two of her moving out (it caused problems with the kids months later, but those seem past). I'm 42

She was 31, and he was 23 (not sure why he's still an undergrad, but seems immature for his age).

The thing that bugs me is that she is blind when idealizing. He is the third The One in ten years. I was the second, and we were together for six years. Average it out. What bugs me is her blindness to narcissists. What bugs me more was when we were together, she was afraid I might sexually abuse our kids. She tripped out when S4, then 3, went through a phase when he wanted to kiss me on the lips "only a mother should do that!" I cleared this with my T. Documented. One time, I was making kissy noises to then D1 on her ear, through her hair. Her mom was there and said "dont do that!" I still think my ex is represing past sexual abuse. Just a gut felling I've always had. Projection? All I can do is watch my kids like hawks for any major changes in their moods.

[scraps66]

I'd be concerned with where the phrase, "kissing butt" came from with the follow-up conversation explaining just what this is, it's an inappropriate discussion with a child.  Overreacting? No, and there is plenty of time to collect more, very similar conversations supporting these inappropriate discussions involving a child. 

This is what happens when spending too much time - too much EXPOSURE - to someone with BP, you second guess your otherwise concrete and rational observations and consequently - FOG - lose sight of your own reality.

[Turkish]

I'd be concerned with where the phrase, "kissing butt" came from with the follow-up conversation explaining just what this is, it's an inappropriate discussion with a child.  Overreacting? No, and there is plenty of time to collect more, very similar conversations supporting these inappropriate discussions involving a child. 

This is what happens when spending too much time - too much EXPOSURE - to someone with BP, you second guess your otherwise concrete and rational observations and consequently - FOG - lose sight of your own reality.

You are right. I was always doubting myself when with her, the WoE effect, constant anxiety.

The kids also spend a lot of time with their uncles, decent blokes,.and I learned that he's just going to be exposed to some language I can't control. What's more concernng to me is this:

She called me tonight to discuss kid issues, holidays. She said S4 prayed to God thanking him for mommy nit being mad at him that day. She said, "it sounds like I'm mad at him all of the time, but I'm not." She chuckled... picture me on the phone going 

I told her that I understood that she might feel that way SET, but if our son feels that way, then that's the way he feels. She needs to consider how a 4 year old feels, because his world view is that of a 4 year old. She thinks this stuff is cute, like she told me two weeks ago about him telling her that he was going to pray for her to not be angry one morning when she was frustrated getting them going. She was sharing that with one of her brothers, she said, laughing, saying it was good that while it intially made her more angry, it calmed her. Parentification anyone? I didn't offer commentary then I want her to keep volunteering this information to me.

She also said that she tells them all of the time what a good daddy I am, and a good man. I said that I see where she might think that is good, but that it was almost like she was telling them how to feel, possibly invalidating them. I said that they should have their own opinions of me, and if they were mad at me one day, or loved me one day, that both feelings were valid. She then back tracked a bit. I could sense she didn't quite get what I was saying, so I didn't push it.

We talked the holidays, and per the stipulation, I get them for 4 hours on halloween this year, which is her night. I had previously invited her to go trick or treating with us, the caveat being that she went door to do ir with us because she never did (anti social), but she said I could just keep them overnight.

So the pattern continues, which is what my T and many others predicted: I'd just get the kids more, joint custody aside, and that's turning out to be true.

[Turkish]

She brought the kids to church today. We had agreed to go get halloween costumes afterwards. As they left, S4 said, "I want to go with you daddy!" I told him I'd see him in a little bit at the store. This is her weekend. After shopping for costumes and as we were loading them up in her car, he said it again, "I want to go with you Daddy!" So much for what she told me the other week saying that he was more bonded to her, and D2 to me. She was in earshot both times. I did SET with him, and told him I'd see him tomorrow night. No need for me to throw anything in her face. She is aware of these issues as much as she can be. It's in all of our best interest to keep her stable and not anger her, nor trigger her depression...