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Author Topic: What do I do with things she said while raging?  (Read 429 times)
Bair
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« on: October 17, 2014, 11:36:18 PM »

A few weeks back she got spun up. While she was raging she blamed me for things in the past that didn't happen. At the time I didn't let myself go down that rabbit hole trying to prove she was wrong. But now it is nagging at me. And I don't know what do do with it.

She said that the first year we were married I kept her from spending Christmas with her mother and that was her mother's last Christmas.

Yes, the first year we were married I didn't want her mom staying with us at Christmas. That is true.  However, her mom died six or seven years after we got married. There were other Christmases.

Like I said this one is nagging at me.  I can't quite put my finger on why that bugs me so much. I am leaning towards the implication of what she thinks of me. Does she really think I am that big of a pricked? But then there is always the "Hero to Zero " thing and this is not the first time I had to deal with that.

Maybe its pretty disturbing to me that she forgot (?) about the other years. Is her perspective that far removed from reality? Or was that a momentary lapse? Does she even remember the crap she says to me when she gets all spun up?

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waverider
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2014, 04:02:26 AM »

She has probably already forgotten she said that. Bringing it up will only open another can of worms.

Reinventing/reassembling histories is a symptom of the Disorder. It is a waste of time addressing symptoms.

If a particular issue is reoccurring then it is worth addressing. If not work out what it is that bothers you, and address that instead. It wont be this stand alone issue but probably the larger issue of abusively accusing you of things. If you need to draw a boundary then it needs to be addressed at the behavior itself, rather than the specific topic.

Eventually you will learn to let this sort of thing wash unless it is particularly abusive, then you use boundaries against abusive behavior instead.

The principle is address the attitude and behavior, rather than the actual words or issue, they are just the vehicle for expressing the feelings.
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2014, 04:22:10 AM »

you will learn to let this sort of thing wash unless it is particularly abusive

Bair,

I'm currently kicking around a similar thing in my r/s.  Am I going to let it "wash"... .or draw a boundary.

That is where the effort should be put... .and I will admit to some anxiety as I work through this because I want to be true to myself... but also to be reasonable to the r/s.  I can't have everything be a boundary... .I can't/shouldn't let everything wash... .  I'm putting my energy into finding that balance... .

The other reason it is important to sort this out... .is so I can send clear signals... without being to specific.

If I always end a conversation about why another woman said this or that after the first question has been asked... .she will eventually catch on that I'm not going to have that conversation... and I'm not going to react.

But... if sometimes I speculate with her about why a woman looked my way... .or said something... .and other times I use a boundary and don't participate... .she would be right to be confused about what is ok or not. 

Intermittent reinforcement (being inconsistent with boundaries... .)... .is bad.

So... she wanted to know if a guy I knew called me last night.  I said no... .didn't call... we had texted about a few things.  Hmm... .why would a lady say that he called u to help her with a snake in her basement if he didn't call u.  Why would that happen if there is not something more than a work r/s with you two... .

I clearly answered that he didn't call and she should address her concerns with the guy or the girl because I had no knowledge of the situation... and don't like to speculate.

Note:  This answer didn't go too well... .I'm saying what I did... .not what I recommend others do.  Tonight I didn't feel that good... .and really wasn't into "putting up" with any drama.

I wasn't mean... .but I didn't validate... .I said it evenly... and moved on.  Probably cost me some sleep as she was unsettled for much of the evening... .and I did end up doing lots of validating and reassuring  a few hours later.

But... .that was a choice I made... .it felt good to make that choice... .even it cost me a bit of sleep later... .

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Wanda
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2014, 03:28:36 PM »

 I would n't bring it up she most likely forgot she even said this... my husband tells me things all the time i know not to be true. you have to let it go. not bring it up if you are seeing a counselor . talk to them if you aren't maybe one will help. don<t let what she said  bother you. it was the heat of the moment... if i were you don't even bring it up... let it go...  
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Bair
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2014, 10:49:45 PM »

Thanks for the input. I didn't think bringing it up with her would be productive. So I will chalk it up as a different form of saying mean things to me. I guess the reach back on this one was unnerving.  We have been married for 20 years. This was the first time I had heard anything about that first Christmas. 
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takingandsending
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2014, 01:05:07 AM »

Bair,

I can completely understand being hurt by her statement. For me, it's the whole reassessing whether or not there was ever a moment where my uBPDw was with me, the person, or just whatever the hell she was creating and now chooses to dismantle. It's having to accept that she might be incapable of loving me at all, and what I thought we shared was not at all shared, but mostly just desperation and fear. Which I knew on some level, but it still hurts to bump headlong into it.

Waverider is on the mark. Try looking into what her recreating that history means to you. In the end, I have to be true to myself to not give into to resentment and self-betrayal. Hang in there, and I appreciate you sharing part of your story. 
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Bair
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2014, 08:47:53 AM »

After reflecting on why it bothered me so much, I see that it isn't just one thing. Sometimes if I am not careful I can become resentful for how transient (if it ever existed) her gratitude can be for the things I do for her. I had recently made a choice that kept a "commitment " with her in town family that eliminated a surprise oppurtunity for me to see my parents who live 700 miles away. Her recent spinup envolved our going to visit my parents for their 60th wedding anniversary. I wanted what I consider to be normal relational give and take. And I know I was angry about her acting up (abusive phone messages and emails) at that time.

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hurthusband
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2014, 01:40:10 PM »

My wife didnt want to do anything today and so i started doing stuff.  I told her I could quit anytime if she wanted to do anything and she said no.  I started something for myself and now she is stomping around slamming doors.  I am actually quite scared.  Should i go check and see what I can do or do what I am doing?

I do not want to reinforce poor behaviors but i do not want to be selfish neither
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takingandsending
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2014, 11:17:22 PM »

Hey Bair! How cool! My parents also just recently celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary. I decided early on that as they were only going to be several hundred miles a way as opposed to 3000, I was going to meet them and my family with my two sons in tow. I left it up to my wife to decide if she wanted to come along. She chose to bit grumbles through most of the trip. I wish I had been strong enough to tell her that I wanted to go alone with my sons. Still, it gave me a lot of opportunities on a long car drive to practice SET and boundaries. Trial by fire for sure. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Verbena
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2014, 10:45:00 AM »

Maybe its pretty disturbing to me that she forgot (?) about the other years. Is her perspective that far removed from reality? Or was that a momentary lapse?

Yes, what is the deal with the "forgetting"?   It's difficult to discuss the behaviors I have issue with when my H says he doesn't remember them.  In his mind, they just never happened at all so I am making it up and "looking for something" to be upset about.  I think it's a mighty convenient excuse for not being accountable for anything. 

It sounds better for you wife to say you cheated her out of the last Christmas than to admit there were six Christmases after that.  She twists the facts to fit how she feels.    I wonder what would happen if you challenged this lie?  If she's anything like my H, she won't admit to being wrong.  I can't blame you for wanting to set the record straight, though.  Maybe a good response would be to ask her questions:  What year did we get married?  What year did your mother die?  Let her answer you and think about how little sense her claim makes. 

My H will claim that he just spoke to me when he said nothing.  He literally acts like he believes words just came out of his mouth even when they didn't.  I don't see this as "forgetting" though.  I see it as a mind game he plays but won't admit to.

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takingandsending
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 11:59:40 AM »

Hi Verbena.

She twists the facts to fit how she feels.

This would be the feelings=facts that is common to pwBPD. I don't think my uBPDw has any conscious knowledge that she does this. Her feelings override her sense systems, which leads to a whole host of things that don't make sense - physical complaints, memory inconsistencies and chronological time accounting errors.

This happens to all humans. Every sense perception that we have is flavored or nuanced by our feelings around what we perceive. If you think of a visual sense perception, the eye perceives an external object and that information is relayed to the brain. The brain then has a response to that information - positive, negative or neutral, creates a context for that information and that image + context is what we "see". For a person with BPD, the brain is adding a ton of largely negative context to the sense perception, so the person "sees" or "hears" something incredibly altered from the norm.

It is the inability to arrest the numerous thoughts that chain react from an input that marks the difference between normal and mentally ill behavior. We all suffer from that inability to some extent, but it is the extreme extent a person with BPD struggles to recognize and stop their own destructive thoughts that makes it so difficult to deal with.
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Bair
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 10:44:42 PM »

This would be the feelings=facts that is common to pwBPD. I don't think my uBPDw has any conscious knowledge that she does this. Her feelings override her sense systems, which leads to a whole host of things that don't make sense - physical complaints, memory inconsistencies and chronological time accounting errors.

Speaking of things that don't make sense... .

A number of years ago I was out of the country. Because of the nature of my work and limited transportation, my exact return date wasn't certain. When the date finally firmed up I received a series of blistering emails from her.  Her first rant started with. "I am so disappointed with you. I cannot trust you any more. Before you left you said you would be gone at least a month. Now it looks like you will be gone four and a half weeks." 

This was not another four and a half weeks but the total trip. I was gone 32 days. How being gone for four and a half weeks after I said I'd be gone for at least a month, made me untrustworthy wad beyond me. But that is the kind of nonsense I have to deal with every time she gets upset.

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takingandsending
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2014, 12:30:42 AM »

Bair,

I think your wife is my wife's sister.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Yes certainly, time moves in erratic ways for the pwBPD. My wife would be loving, happy, fine when I traveled for work ... .until the day I was coming back. The night before or the morning of my flight home, the e-mails, panic phone calls and frantic texts would begin. Of course, I didn't know about BPD, so I'd call at the airport, during a short layover on the way to catch the next plane, at landing. Each time projecting out my ETA, praying the airplane wouldn't be delayed. I live 2 hours from the airport, and invariably, I'd be off by 20-30 minutes in her interpretation of my estimate, after traveling all freaking day, and then I'd get the "I can't trust you. Why didn't you call to tell me you'd be late? I have been pushing myself taking care of the kids the entire time you were gone, and I am exhausted and you can't even care enough to be here when you promised or call to let me know you're coming late ... ."

Absolute soul killing. And I blamed myself for it for so long. And then for a long while, I got angry and defended myself. And now? I choose to get smart and stop pretending this is my problem. I am working it down to one phone call per night during travel and NC on departure day unless it is an emergency. She has to face those abandonment fears in her own way without me while I am away. When I am home with her, I can hear her and empathize the best I can. To her credit, she really held herself together the last trip I was away (even if it only was one night and one day).
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waverider
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2014, 04:08:13 AM »

To her credit, she really held herself together the last trip I was away (even if it only was one night and one day).

It is surprising to find that they can cope with boundaries once they realize you are not going to move on them.

This is why we say here that starting to enforce boundaries is the starting point. As it highlights to you that walking on eggshells was for the most part unnecessary, they just convinced you it was. It is a delusion and an indication that you have been snared in the toxic web that is BPD
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2014, 10:27:11 AM »

I've always found it a waste of time to go back and argue with things like this.  Yes they drive us crazy, but you'll be driven even crazier if you bring it back up now or if you even tried to argue it in the moment.

There have been countless nights I've argued over uBPDh's incorrect version of what I've said or done in the past that caused huge fights.  I realized those could have been avoided by me just not arguing with him.  BPD's think their feelings are the end all be all and are absolutely correct.  So even if it never happened... .if they create the even to match what they feel then to them it did happen.  It's exhausting still. 
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Bair
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2014, 07:45:19 AM »

Of course, I didn't know about BPD, so I'd call at the airport, during a short layover on the way to catch the next plane, at landing. Each time projecting out my ETA, praying the airplane wouldn't be delayed. I live 2 hours from the airport, and invariably, I'd be off by 20-30 minutes in her interpretation of my estimate, after traveling all freaking day, and then I'd get the "I can't trust you. ... ."

Absolute soul killing.

Yep, it used to suck the life out of me. I stopped blaming myself when we went through that dance when a snow storm was affecting my connecting airport and my home airport.  We both finally realized she did better if she wasn't getting the blow by blow updates. I also started adding several hours to my time of arrival estimates. And on the long trips I'd add days. Seems to go better now.
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takingandsending
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2014, 10:26:43 AM »

Sounds like a good approach.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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