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Author Topic: So he is quitting therapy  (Read 489 times)
ziniztar
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Relationship status: I chose to end the r/s end of October 2014. He cheated and pushed every button he could to push me away until I had to leave.
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« on: October 22, 2014, 01:45:57 AM »

NOW what the hell do I do? He discussed with his own therapist and a new one. They agree he is stuck and both physically as mentally not capable of doing what is necessary to make the behavioural changes desired after 2 years of therapy. He's welcome back any time. So NOW what? I just wait? The way he is acting is not good enough, this is not what I want out of a r/s. But it was getting better lately due to the changes I'm making.    
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takingandsending
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« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2014, 11:01:29 AM »

Ziniztar,

Do you ever feel like the universe, at times, is very determined to make you answer a question that you have been working and working on, letting you know that maybe you haven't resolved it yet? I know that I do. My god, mental illness really pushes us nons to figure out our own stuff, over and over.

I am sorry for the pain and confusion that you are in. I would keep trying to ask "What meaning am I making about his decision to leave therapy?" There's are certain feelings in me that I just can't access that well, that are uncomfortable. In the end, all we can deal with is what these things mean to us and make decisions from that place.

Another way of saying this is, can you identify the feelings that you are having right now in your emotion factory? Are the real feelings getting blocked and outletting in some other way? Can you work with those deepest feelings because I think that will give some clarity to what to do?

And if you can do that, can you tell me how to do it, too? 
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ziniztar
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Relationship status: I chose to end the r/s end of October 2014. He cheated and pushed every button he could to push me away until I had to leave.
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2014, 11:23:04 AM »

Thanks for replying, takingandsending.

I am very afraid I am not taking good care of myself. I hate the choice I have to make over and over again, I think I am rethinking this r/s every other day. I don't want to accept that this is good enough for me, that my self-image is this low that I would stay with a man I have no children or any other ties with, that can be nice to me but is not a normal loving guy, and sometimes even mean.

Perhaps I am afraid that I'm not perfect, that I'm not nailing this, or even worse: I have failed. That whatever the hell I have been trying to do has not worked.

The weird thing is: I am willing to be with him, I think it is good enough, for me. I am content. I told him yesterday I know I can deal with his borderline and mood swings, I just can't deal with the distance he's keeping. I would want to move in next year after 1,5 years of travelling, but he's keeping me away.

And then I see all these other people have normal relationships and then I feel I'm doing something wrong, like I'm missing out on something. That I deserve better, and that I am weak for not searching for it.

I'll ask T tomorrow what his view on all this is Smiling (click to insert in post).
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ziniztar
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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 11:46:25 AM »

And to answer your question directly:

"What meaning am I making about his decision to leave therapy?"

- He is giving up on himself, including 2 therapists, how stupid must I be to believe in him?

- I don't like it he is stuck, staying would mean willingly choosing to stay with someone dysfunctional.

- This ignites fear about the future, will he turn into an alcoholic, for instance? Could I have children with this man the way he is right now? Will my children think I am a pathetic mom for choosing someone like this? Does it mean he never ever wants to be in therapy again? Am I making a huge decision right now to stay and will I hit myself in the head in 10 years, screaming to my past self 'run away run away run away'. Will he get worse?
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takingandsending
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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2014, 01:09:06 PM »

Ziniztar,

You already know that only you can make these decisions, and it's a very personal choice, and that the choice is not fixed. But I can let you know that I am also looking a lot these days at my fear of failure, my sense of shame around it, and how I identify my self-worth on succeeding. I have built a life around having successes that other people can't and don't have in difficult situations. I have been proud of how I can work with almost anyone and find something positive in the experience.

And because of my wife's illness, I am looking at why I do what I do. And what I see is that I want to be that rescuer, that good guy who can make something good out of what was cast aside. And I do that because that is what I wish someone had done for me when I was a child. So, until I start being the one to take myself in loving kindness and hold me up, how likely is it that I will ever find a person, a community that is willing to help me get that need met? And even if they did, would I be able to recognize it, would I be able to accept it?

I can also share from my experience that I feel stupid (self betrayal) for believing my wife loved me and staying with her. I feel afraid that she will get worse. I feel worried about my kids' mental health growing up in this environment. I feel like a failure as a father for not protecting them. I feel angry at myself, and wished my future self could have warned me to run for the hills. And in the end, it's still my own journey and I have to accept who I am. And that's the one thing that I cannot run away from, no matter how hard I try.

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Wanda
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Relationship status: in second marriage for 20 years on valentines day
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« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2014, 01:36:25 PM »

17 years ago I was in same situation after one year he decided not to go anymore. I told him things had to improve or I was out... .u can, t control things we all know meds and BPD therapy would help . 17 yeas later I am still In.  Things did improve right now we are going through a hard time with this counseling thing again I am always reinforcing I can, t force him to do anything. Nor can he force anything he is angry due to all that happened. And I am sure one mention of meds he will be out... but can I control this no... .neither can u u are changing so did I things will get better. For me now I am trying to strengthen up on skills communication skills.

it is a long process so I know how u feel.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2014, 10:06:42 PM »

  ziniztar,

It is discouraging that he's quitting T. Just the same, I think that is a secondary concern for you.

Instead focus on what you want in the r/s with him. Focus on what you can put up with, and what you can't. What matters is his behavior. Therapy only matters *IF* it improves his behavior, and it isn't the only way, nor is it guaranteed to be successful or sufficient.

And work on your own behavior. The better you do, the more room he has for good behavior, and the easier it is for him too. I know that when I used good boundaries, and wouldn't pick up the problems my wife was inventing, she finally decided to work through them herself... .and succeeded.
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ziniztar
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Relationship status: I chose to end the r/s end of October 2014. He cheated and pushed every button he could to push me away until I had to leave.
Posts: 599



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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2014, 04:55:27 AM »

Instead focus on what you want in the r/s with him. Focus on what you can put up with, and what you can't. What matters is his behavior. Therapy only matters *IF* it improves his behavior, and it isn't the only way, nor is it guaranteed to be successful or sufficient.

And work on your own behavior. The better you do, the more room he has for good behavior, and the easier it is for him too. I know that when I used good boundaries, and wouldn't pick up the problems my wife was inventing, she finally decided to work through them herself... .and succeeded.

Well, this is encouraging Smiling (click to insert in post). Thanks for that! I will discuss my needs and desires for the r/s with T. What makes me icky about all this is that dBPDbf is challenging my decision to stay, like he can't believe it. 'You said this was a requirement for you to start 2.0, why are you staying? Is it only because you don't want to be alone? It is up to you to decide whether you want this or not, I feel nothing so I can't tell you if I think we should stay together or not.'

I explained to him that I can't judge in one day whether this is enough for me or not. That I have to experience how we're together in the next couple of months, and that if I need to make a decision to leave because it isn't enough, that realization will be slowly. The detachment will happen slowly. I remember a r/s where I struggled for over 1,5 years with his lying and in the final 6 weeks, I didn't even want to be intimate with him anymore. I lost all desire to be with him. In week 1 I said to a friend 'I think we will be breaking up soon' and in week 6 I was sure. I'm guess this will happen with dBPDbf as well... I'll have to trust my own instincts in this.

You are right to say that therapy isn't the only way someone can improve, my behavior has quite some impact on him as well. So, I guess I'll just have to continue with what I already decided: change whatever the hell I can and want to change because I know these are my issues; then see whatever is left. Then decide.

Just need to find a way not to get so panicky when some variables in that equation change.

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waverider
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2014, 06:23:15 AM »

Most therapy is stop start. Becomes stale, needs to step back and see were they are in the world then maybe later realize they need to start again.

Maybe it needs the new you to have enough difference for long enough for him to feel ready for the next stage.

Keep looking after you and it may push him to step up again as it will not be the same old same old.

It can take many years and many attempts to make big changes.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2014, 05:07:28 PM »

What makes me icky about all this is that dBPDbf is challenging my decision to stay, like he can't believe it.

Ick indeed. If you separate your feelings from his, it isn't quite as troubling... .'tho still icky.

He gets to choose whether he stays or leaves.

You get to choose whether you stay or leave.

If either one chooses to leave, it ends. If both choose to stay, it continues.

When you remember this, he is just making icky projecting noises.  And his actions show that his choice is to stay, at least for today.
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formflier
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2014, 06:59:57 PM »

  I know that when I used good boundaries, and wouldn't pick up the problems my wife was inventing, she finally decided to work through them herself... .and succeeded.

Can you give examples... .?  Any of them financial? 

I think I'm at this place... .or past it... .where I'm going to let her figure it out... .standing by and watching a trainwreck is a bit painful.

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ziniztar
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: I chose to end the r/s end of October 2014. He cheated and pushed every button he could to push me away until I had to leave.
Posts: 599



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« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2014, 05:32:43 AM »

Maybe it needs the new you to have enough difference for long enough for him to feel ready for the next stage.

Keep looking after you and it may push him to step up again as it will not be the same old same old.

I guess that is my gut feeling with this too. He is now aware of his issues (different from 1,5 years ago). He event old me: "I always knew I was different and I was happy to find out that I was right. Now I wish I hadn't known it and it might be the worst thing that happened to me."

I think he feels stuck right now, and depressed. At least he has accepted his illness, now he needs to find out that it's not the end of the world. That he too can find a way to manage this. As I mentioned before, I think him getting his own business could be the best thing that could happen to him. Me actually staying could also slowly learn him that people care for him for who he is. I have a few friends that never really opened up to me until after a few years - maybe this is the same. Trust has to be built slowly, especially with pwBPD.

He asked me 'so did you have time to think?' My honest answer was: I want to look at you and love you for the person that you are, not because you are (not) going to some form of therapy. I don't know if that is a good fit with me in the long run, but I really want to find out.'

When you remember this, he is just making icky projecting noises.  And his actions show that his choice is to stay, at least for today.

Smiling (click to insert in post) thanks for reminding me of that.

T said it is a risk that I see him as a project that I can manage or willingly learn to deal with, yet not getting what I truly want. I need to be clear to myself about what I want in the future, not in terms of 'I don't want this or that' but really formulating what I want out of life. The next step is to discuss that with people and see if these desires match. But if I keep making my choice dependent on what other people offer me, I will keep being trapped and will never surprise them with other options. Nor myself.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2014, 11:46:04 AM »

Zin, you're doing it right. Being honest with yourself. Being honest with him too, and presenting that in ways he can hear it.

My guess is that a bit further down the road you will really be at peace with what you want out of this r/s, and whether you are getting it or not... .and taking appropriate action.

Can you give examples... .?  Any of them financial? 

Financial things were never a flash-point for us. Here's what comes to mind.

We had a fight where she was accusing me of working slowly on a home-improvement project because I didn't actually want the final project, and was avoiding it to deprive her of it. [Actual reason: It was harder and more complicated than I had thought... .and I was depressed and discouraged, much due to the fighting like this!].

Since this involved my intentions, any answer I could make directly would be JADEing, and would escalate things, and then she would be left feeling like she was right in blaming me for what I was doing to her.

If I just refused to participate in that fight... .she was left alone with her feelings, and had to find ways to address them herself.

One time I left her alone for a few hours after/during a particularly bad fight. She dove really deep into some self-loathing while I was gone. I didn't find out for a few days, but she wrote horrible things about herself on her body with a sharpie marker. She could have cut herself or tried to commit suicide, but didn't. (Whew!)

In a way, it was the most horrible thing I ever did to her--left her with all that hate and anger, and nobody but herself to to target with it.  I didn't really do it to her. I wasn't thinking about her at all. It was pretty much self-preservation. I had to get out of that abuse.

I wasn't trying to teach her anything, but I did give her space to learn it. Years later, I'm pretty sure she remembers it vividly, and that learning that these feelings were hers and inside her was a very important step in her healing.
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