She now has put an ultimatum in front of me.

[itgirl]

I dated my girl for 3 years.  She was my everything and still am.  But I gave up everything for her.  All my friends.  Limited time with family.  Everything I enjoyed in life.

She now has put an ultimatum in front of me.  I must break all connection with my best friend of 20 years who has cancer.  I wont budge so now she is leaving me.  She was supposed to leave 1 Jan to new apartment.  I still didn't budge.  Now she moved the date to 1 Nov.  I still didn't budge.

I decided to not play this game.  I am willing to compromise but she is not willing to shift one bit.

I hope I am doing the right thing but I feel I need to take a stand and not be a push over. I might lose her forever but at some point you just have to stop the cycle.

Is this the right thing?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Inquisitive1]

It sounds like she is being very controlling you are doing the right thing. Giving up all other social ties for one person is not healthy.

[Cat21]

Itgirl, that is totally unfair and unreasonable. Only you can decide what the "right thing" to do is, but if it were me, I would certainly not abandon a friend in need. I think you made the right decision.

[itgirl]

Thank you for your replies so far. Yes, I am the only one that knows what is the right decision. Every time I get weak and want to cave in I think of something waverider said. That hole in the back yard that I keep filling.  With friends, family and time.  It will never fill up and I will sit with nothing.

It's a hard decision as I will lose my partner. But somehow I think I'm making a healthy decision. One based on myself.

Things will escalate in sure and she has already phoned my parents at five am causing drama by spreading lies

[maxsterling]

I'm proud of you for not playing her game!

This thread just reminds me how just how twisted this disorder is

[itgirl]

Yes Max very. This weekend after the phone call drama to my parents. We fought for an hour and she raged. After she calmed down she had a moment of clarity. She opened up to how sick she is and how she is different. How she sabotages our relationship. I validated and gave her support and love.

She acknowledged it all by her self. Owning up to herself. Come Monday she bought self help books on "inner child". She confronted it head on and apologized for everything.  She worked on this for four hours.

When she walked in the house after work I could see in her eyes something is very wrong. You guessed it. I'm all too blame and how dare I call her crazy.  I guess it was just too bad to look inside herself.

It's really sad.  bUT I can't be dragged down with. It's too dysfunctional.

Ps. Sorry for posting in staying board but I only know you guys as I have been very committed to staying. I deep down hope this is just a test.

[Cardinals in Flight]

I feel your pain ITgirl, and yes, maybe not a test, but her pushing for your boundaries and deep loyalty to a "crazy" person. How could you love this person who is so disordered, is perhaps her mind set.  Detachment is key here if you are staying.  I'm actively in my 3 true recycle, things ARE different, mostly my reactions or responses I should say.

Ive seen the eyes you describe, the pain.  When our pwBPD realizes they're flawed it's hard on them.  They do deflect and project.

Tale care of you, it's really most important

CiF

[Yaffle]

I definitely think you are doing the right thing. The line has got to be drawn somewhere.  Its something I've got to face up to at some point.  Luckily my friends are still around, its just that they've drifted a bit and I need to pull them back again. 

[MaroonLiquid]

I definitely think you are doing the right thing. The line has got to be drawn somewhere.  Its something I've got to face up to at some point.  Luckily my friends are still around, its just that they've drifted a bit and I need to pull them back again. 

I feel fo you guys as I am in the "line drawing" phase also... .It's tough as I haven't talked to my wife in 9 days after she told me that she didn't want to spend time with me.  That crossed a line that I drew about a week earlier.  Been a very difficult 9 days.

[vortex of confusion]

In my experience, they like to issue ultimatums and demands in an effort to control you, scare you, shake you up. What they don't anticipate is when we create a boundary and stick to it.

A recent example was when my husband came home from a trip, he said that he wanted a divorce. I said okay and started talking about the practical things that would need to be done. I didn't get frazzled or upset. I just started talking logically. His response was, "Well, you have clearly been thinking a lot about this." I said, "No, these are logical things that will need to be done." I was talking about stuff like who was going to pay what bills and how much money each of us would need and separating our finances. Within a day or two, he backed off of it completely because he saw that I was not going to budge and I was not going to get upset.

I told a friend that has experience with stuff like this and he told me that my husband isn't going anywhere. I think they try to push us away and draw lines and issue ultimatums so that they can continue to look like the innocent victim.

[itgirl]

Thanks all. All very valid points. Maybe she is pushing my boundary but I do believe this is a deal breaker for her. Hence my struggle with my decision. Was on my way home and she bombarded me with vicious texts. I just replied not doing this over sms. Told her I'm staying away till she calms down then il be home a bit later.

She is freaking out. I decided to come to my parents house and eat dinner here.  Just take a time out and have dinner like a normal person.

I'm sure there will be a shotstorm when I return. I have been asking her for a week to talk things out but she refuses. Maybe then it will be final. Or maybe she just wants to drag this on over sms.  My goodness I'm 37 and too old for sms wars.

[MaybeSo]

Itgirl,

Unless there is another part of the story we aren't hearing... .

then at face value, it would be a huge mistake to succumb to such a request.

Unless this unsustainable request is really about something else that can be reasonably discussed when she's not dysregulated, then I think the only sane thing to do is to hold your boundaries.

I always get a little sense of wonderment when I hear such an over the top demand with no background to it... .even with a pwBPD... .though I understand our partners can be over the top, and that these things actually happen.

but many of our partners get upset about stuff that sometimes has a kernel of truth or reason to it... .they just blow the whole thing out of proportion in their presentation and it's not until the dust settles that I hear something reasonable underneath all the drama/trauma.

? Is their anything underneath the absurd demand that is driving this, anything at all... .that could in anyway be valid if she knew how to handle it better?  Just throwing out an example... .let's say you are already a workaholic and it's been a big issue for a long time and now on top of that you are spending day and night with sick friend and now she is just going ballistic.   Is there any back story to this at all that makes even a little bit of sense? 

You can't succumb to such an ultimatum no matter what.  Correction... .you can succumb ... .we are all adults and we can do whatever we want or feel the need to do... .but it would be unwise to succumb to this ultimatum as you described it here... .and it would set a horrible precedent.  Which may be what is going on as it sounds like you have already 'trained' her that you will give up important aspects of your life to make her feel good... .which she interprets as 'love'  so when you stop doing that she is going to interpret it as being 'unloving'... .which will piss her off and scare her... .which is why you ought not train someone to expect such unreasonable accommodations. 

Sigh.

However... .sense you are struggling about your position... .

Is there anything underneath her over the top request that can be validated and negotiated?  Anything at all? 

Otherwise, I think this is a case of extinction burst... .and she is going to metaphorically slam and kick the vending machine harder and harder to see if the vending machine will eventually cough up the prize like it has always done in the past.  Extinction bursts are ugly.

You are the vending machine.  Don't cough-up the prize if you ever want to stop this in its tracks for good.

So sorry, I know this stuff sucks. 

[itgirl]

@MaybeSo   Thank you so much for your reply and insight. 

There is a MEGA backstory!  I only wrote one sentence and threw the cancer word in there to create a pity party.  That was unfair.

The backstory is too much to put down on paper but I will just give the highlights.

When I met my partner my friend and I were both single off course so we spent a lot of time together.  Meaning my partner struggled to get all of my attention.  I think this is normal.  Its not good to just jump in a relationship and spend every night together.  After about a year we moved in together.

Year 2011 - My best friend doesn't like my partner and vice versa.   I agreed with my partner that I could hang out one night a week with friend.  My partner was sick one night and I left her and still went out.  BIG MISTAKE.

Year 2012 -  My friend and I don't see much of each other at all.  Only twice a week at boxing class.  But then we train.  Its not a social thing. We only communicate via SMS or phone but nothing in person.

Year 2013  -  I am not allowed to see my friend AT ALL!   I gave into the demand.  That lasted about 8 months.  My partner felt bad  and told my friend to come over and spend some time together.  That didn't last very long.  Partner and I broke up as its too much for her.

Year 2014 -  We are back together again and yay everything is great.  Then my friend got cancer.  Partner and I both decided this will be very hard and we will have to work together to make it.  I go to two doctors visits with friend.  She has no husband.  This is seen by my partner as I'm putting my friend first and we are now a couple.

In the 15 sessions of chemo my friend was allowed ONCE to stay at our place and we took care of her.  My partner drank too much wine that evening and passed out.  I carried her to bed up the stairs and put on her PJs.  I went downstairs and sat with my friend just joking around.  BIG MISTAKE.  I abandoned my partner.

Dysregulation starts.  Partner is convinced my friend is in love with me.  Goes to a energy reader who confirms this ALL.  She is in love with me and we will always have this special bond.  GAME OVER.

I can write on and on and on and on about jealousy and abandonment but I try to look for that kernel of truth as it doesn't make sense.  I love my partner to DEATH and she knows it.  In my heart there is not room for anyone else I am too deeply in love.  So the only conclusion I can come to is that my partner feels rejected by my friend.  I think actually it has got nothing to do WITH ME!

[vortex of confusion]

In the 15 sessions of chemo my friend was allowed ONCE to stay at our place and we took care of her.  My partner drank too much wine that evening and passed out.  I carried her to bed up the stairs and put on her PJs.  I went downstairs and sat with my friend just joking around.  BIG MISTAKE.  I abandoned my partner.

Dysregulation starts.  Partner is convinced my friend is in love with me.  Goes to a energy reader who confirms this ALL.  She is in love with me and we will always have this special bond.  GAME OVER.

If I am reading this correctly, your best friend is a female. In your original post, I got the impression that you were talking about a guy friend. Sorry, if my husband had a best friend that was female, I would be pissed, especially if he repeatedly chose her over me. I don't know why the gender of your friend changes things but it does in my opinion.

I think it is tacky for you and your friend to insist on still doing stuff together even though it makes your wife uncomfortable. As a female, I would be very, very jealous if my husband had a female best friend.

I can write on and on and on and on about jealousy and abandonment but I try to look for that kernel of truth as it doesn't make sense.  I love my partner to DEATH and she knows it.  In my heart there is not room for anyone else I am too deeply in love.  So the only conclusion I can come to is that my partner feels rejected by my friend.  I think actually it has got nothing to do WITH ME!

[/quote]

[itgirl]

vortex - you are correct. 

I'm a lesbian and so is my partner.  But my friend is straight. 

I did post this question on this board to get honest opinions hence saying am I doing the right thing?  I take it you agree somewhat to my girlfriend being jealous and has a valid reason?

[vortex of confusion]

vortex - you are correct. 

I'm a lesbian and so is my partner.  But my friend is straight. 

I did post this question on this board to get honest opinions hence saying am I doing the right thing?  I take it you agree somewhat to my girlfriend being jealous and has a valid reason?

With the extra information, I do think that your girlfriend's concerns have a bit more validity than what I thought based on your original post. You saying that your best friend is straight would be equivalent to my husband having a female friend and claiming "but she is gay".

[itgirl]

My partner signed the lease just now and she is moving out.

So I lost her by "choosing" my friend since school.  Which is nothing more than just a friend. 

Thanks for all your help.  Now its ME time and less focus on the terrible disorder.  Good luck to you all. 

[Grey Kitty]

  I'm jumping in after it is "too late" with a couple comments.

First, I think your partner's jealous and controlling behavior about your friendship really was out of line. I'd add that it is also typical BPD behavior, including nasty stuff that can be very effective at isolating you from other people.

Second, if you give in to this sort of behavior, things get worse,not better--instead of making the pwBPD happy, they will repeat it with other people, your family, your coworkers, etc.

I completely think you did the right thing about this. If you spend more time understanding BPD and how to behave and communicate with somebody suffering from it, you might find better ways to do it... .but you did the right thing regardless.

And lastly... .just because she's signed a lease doesn't mean you are done with this. If you read the stories on this board, many people here have been at a great distance from their pwBPD, often for years, and still been enmeshed, and still had plenty to work through. So unless YOU are completely done with her, don't count on it being as over as she says today.

[Haye]

I think you had a very difficult situation at your hands. I would not like to be like told that i could not interact with my closest friends due partner's jealousy and insecurity. Regardless of me and my friends sex and sexual orientation. I do understand why she would be jealous, part fear of loosing you to this other lady and some it probably just having to share your time with someone.

But it also sounds like BPD-style insecurity and fear of abandonment and all that. I read correctly you had already given in on many other occasions and had have been cut out of contact with many other friends?

Concentrating on me time sounds like an excellent plan. Peace, silence, no demands - just nurturing yourself. You needed to be able to support your friend with cancer and to get through all this. Ending any relationship is hard, let alone ending a r/s with pwBPD.

And like Grey Kitty said, I wouldn't be so sure that this is really the end. Rather, i might be very very difficult for your girlfriend to be without you. No matter how mad and decided she might now be. Impossible to say.

[MaybeSo]

okay... .this makes more sense.

you both contributed to this stalemate... .

it remains to be seen if you both can work together to come out the other side.

I question putting aside a night a week for an unmarried friend, lots of folks without a disorder would squirm a bit about that ... .I'm not sure why the friend wasn't more incorporated into the "couple" early on.  Having set alone time dates ... .It does set a certain tone that implies your old friend takes precedence over maintaining the couple relationship in good order.

If you gave into unreasonable demands to cut out near everyone else from your life... .that goes too far in the other direction and also isn't good for a couple to be that cut off and isolated. we tend to both get crazier together without having healthy friendships outside the pair.

seems there might be a medium area between those two extremes... .right?

[dune]

I think you are doing the right thing! But I, for one, am just learning about how to deal with people with BPD… so I'm not sure how well confrontation actually goes with them or if they will ever change. But I do know it is not healthy or right for her to deny you of relationships with family and friends. And isn't that were so much joy comes from… our healthy, supportive relationships with others? You are allowed to have multiple of those, or at least one!… and it sounds like she is not allowing that to happen. And it's also unhealthy to enable her to continue this controlling behavior.  Ideally, you and your partner (whether its this girl or someone else) will be strong and independent as individuals and even stronger as a couple.

[itgirl]

Thank you all so much for your support and replies and showing me that yes I am not always so innocent.

My gf is struggling big time with her decision to move out and too see someone in so much pain is heartbreaking.  I am trying not to react.  She has lowered her ultimatum somewhat in saying that I should have low contact with my friend.  Just by her actually budging and not be so stubborn I feel we are making progress.

I am going to talk to her tonight and hopefully persuade her to stay. I am not sure if I should persuade or just let her know that our home is always open for her?  I have come to the conclusion that we BOTH should compromise to an acceptable level for both of us.  I am willing to and I hope she is as well.

Now I must just remain calm, validate and SET.

[Grey Kitty]

I have come to the conclusion that we BOTH should compromise to an acceptable level for both of us.  I am willing to and I hope she is as well.

I'd say yes and no to that.

The big YES is that you do have things to work on in the r/s. You are a big part of these bad dynamics with her.

The NO is around abusive behavior. Your partner responded to issues and conflicts by behaving abusively toward you.

If you compromise in the face of abusive behavior, it only gets worse.

As I said to my wife once "Abuse is fundamentally about control. If I let you weigh in on what you need me to do for the abuse to stop, I'm letting you control me. The abuse has to stop, and until it does I'm going to work on my own issues in my own ways, not reporting to you on it, and not listening to what you say about it."

Be strong in the face of abuse and control--you DO have a right to spend the time you want with a life-long friend of yours.

[itgirl]

push pull push pull push pull is DRIVING ME NUTS.

We have been talking the last week.  By we I mean SHE and circular discussions.  I know I should take a time-out but this is not a normal discussion.  This is about breaking up.  I try to validate but she doesn't let me get a single word in.

If I get a little chance I would try and validate by starting with:

"I understand".   <-  this is how far I will get.  Then she would yell back... .no you don't understand. 

This is just one example.  There are thousands.  And it presses on my buttons and I get very frustrated and I normally start crying.  Then she would off course "enjoy" it.   

Its the same thing over and over and over.  And while I am work she would send those long discussion over text.  I just let her text cause I think maybe its her way of getting it out?

Then there are times she lets me talk and she is calm. Like last night.  I SET and she listens and it works wonderful.  She agrees.  I agree about the relationship dynamic and problems.  We work out a plan that suits us both. I didn't budge on my boundary.  We agreed that I can still have my friendship with my long life friend but we must break our bond.  Whatever that means! 

She moved back in the room with me.  Were intimate and everything is great.  So this morning at work I thought I would be getting loving texts from her.  NO I WAS WRONG.  She is back to the circular arguing and cant or wont remember a THING we discussed last night.

I am obviously not validating!  But I cant get a word in.  I know you guys always say never text or put on paper but I think we usually communicate quite well over sms.  I mean I just want to validate.  NOT start the discussion over SMS.  I think I must try it?

[Grey Kitty]

I can't recommend validation for you the way you want to do it.

The point of a circular argument is that she's feeling something (horrible and negative), and she will take anything you say, and twist it around until it agrees with how she's feeling. Rinse, lather, and repeat. (Until you give up in tears, anger, or confusion)

You cannot validate your way out of that.

The only thing you can do is decide not to pick up the gauntlet and join the fight. Take as much distance as you need to do that.

[Mono No Aware]

push pull push pull push pull is DRIVING ME NUTS.

This is an epic thread, itgirl.

Push-pull is such a simple mechanical phrase for such a bewildering tangle of shifting realities. I am just thick with layers and layers of black and white paint myself this past couple weeks.

Yours is pretty severe, actually taking efforts to modify the lease is strong Push, and of course there's equally strong Pull as the dynamic pendulum swings back.

I am obviously not validating!  But I cant get a word in.  I know you guys always say never text or put on paper but I think we usually communicate quite well over sms.  I mean I just want to validate.  NOT start the discussion over SMS.  I think I must try it?

Validation is only one tool in the toolbox, and it is mostly a trust-building tactic. It can't halt a push-pull rollercoaster but it is a helpful communication-opening tool. You already got blocked by trying to use the word "understand", indicating she's (at that moment) emotionally invested in you being the problem. At that point validation is not possible and it's time to batten down the hatches and zip your mouth to prevent JADEing.

SMS: I say use the text carefully: don't JADE, and don't get her spoiled with instant attention. Never answer the leading questions, and rarely reply right away - especially when at work. Keep up a boundary of no interference with the job. Validation is also not effective over text, that's a personal face-to-face connection. View the text merely as keeping-communication-open tool, used with caution.

Of greatest concern is how long the push-pull wrecking ball is going to swing and what more damage can it do. She landed back in your arms and next day swung away. With luck this is part of the greater cycle and she'll calm to the point of days or weeks of stability, during which time you'll have much better success at validation and SET which can help defuse blowups.

[MaybeSo]

You both need to have healthy friendships outside the relationship that are meaningful and enriching without signaling by your actions  that they trump or throw the couple relationship under the bus.

If you unwisely gave up other friendships and associations over the years... .but only staunchly refuse to budge on this one, it likely makes this one seem all the more suspect in her eyes.  I wouldn't ask a person to give up friends for me but if I did, and got your compliance, except for with this one other woman... .It would hieghten my fear that there is a threat there. There is a lot of history here that got you to this place. If you had kept a more balanced focus on maintaing healthy connections with lots of different folks, and maintained it as a healthy boundary, the dynamic would probably feel safer to both of you.

I suggest you listen to a free interview by Dr Stan Tatkin from The Sounds True Deepening Intimacy series. Do a search on that and it will come up. Stan's expertise and training is in personality disorders. He now works with couples with these issues.

Both you and your gf may want to watch it.

[MaybeSo]

Sounds True Deepening Intimacy

Creating A Truly Mutual Relationship with Dr. Stan Tatkin

#2 Interview in the series.  It’s free.

www.live.soundstrue.com/deepeningintimacy/player.php?media_id=2sts1&sa=1&ptype=media_link_watch

[itgirl]

Again thank you so much for your replies Grey Kitty and MaybeSo. The last couple of days has been hectic so only spotted the links to the videos now.  I will surely check this out.

MaybeSo you have really hit a chord here.  It must be super weird that I cut ties with other friends except this one friend. I would be very suspicious if it were the other way around.  I spoke to my friend and told her for the next couple of months if we hang out my partner will be with.  Even though they don't like each other it is how it is.  My partner agreed.  Not sure if this is a good strategy but for now seems like the only option.

Update on things.  My partner did move out eventually.  And you guessed it.  She still sleeps every night in my bed.  Last night she admitted she made a mistake by moving out.  So now we paying two households.   

these are the days of our lives 

[AlmostBroken]

I totally understand what you're experiencing and please let me apologize for jumping on your post. My undiagnosed BPD fiancé is triggered be every single thing that I do and don't do, yet she is still here. She has such a distorted view of actual reality and I have been painted black every since she love-bombed me for the first 3 months of our relationship. Once I fell fully in love and committed to her 100%, she snapped and transformed into a monster.

As mentioned in my previous posts (which are full of info about my story), I pay ALL of our bills alone (and pay for our groceries) and used my savings to buy us our home. She believes that I don't do anything to support her and that I am selfish. She works full-time but refuses to help with any bills and is always broke. I have no clue where her money goes. She has very little expenses because I pay for everything.

I am to blame for all of her life problems and failures even though she was 29 when we met. She's 31 now. Because of me, she was unable to finish college and never established a career. She hasn't attended college in years and had no goals when we met.

She resents me for not converting to her Mormon religion. She was inactive for years but all of a sudden became interested in church several months ago. I wasn't drinking the Joseph Smith kook-aid. Sorry.

She resents me for being successful in my career (a career that I established 10 years before we met). She complained and complained and complained about my custom motorcycle that I built 3 years before we met. My bike was bought and paid for back in 2005 (7 years before we met). She hated that I am a motorcycle rider and love custom cars because they were a place of happiness for me. She wore me out and broke me down and I sold my beloved bike in September just to shut her up. I sold it for less than it's custom value.

She get's upset over the littlest things and breaks up with me and threatens to leave me at least twice per week. We have awkward sex once every couple of months and she tells me that she hates me and calls me a disgusting pig all the time. I am muscular and ripped and could compete in professional men's physique competitions. I am a fitness fanatic who gets non-stop attention from women. She hates that I go to the gym and I am not a disgusting pig.

I work graveyard as a cop in a large metropolitan city from 10pm - 8am Tuesday's through Friday and go to the gym after work. I chase people, get into fights, and deal with steady chaos all night long then come home to chaos in my own home. I struggle to sleep during the day because human beings aren't meant to work all night and sleep when the sun is out. She works during the day at her office job and returns home complaining about how hard her day was and how I'm lazy and lay in bed all day while she works. I pay ALL the bills and buy ALL the food. She's insane! She doesn't pay for anything. Me, lazy?

I trigger so many negative emotions in my fiancé. I am the worst person in her life, but I sacrifice and give her so much. She hates everything about me. She hates how I look (I've looked the same since I was 19), she hates my career (I was a cop for 10 years before we met). She hates my hobbies (hobbies I've had since high school). No matter what I do for this woman, it'll never be good enough. She believes that I'm selfish and lazy and that I don't support her, yet she is still with me.