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Author Topic: The difference between BPD and NPD.  (Read 551 times)
HappyChappy
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« on: October 24, 2014, 05:02:27 AM »

I note markedly differences between my BPDm and NPD bro. My Cover NPD bro plans very destructive attacks on those he targets (often me – sibling rivalry). But my BPDm tends to just wear you down, with nagging and gas lighting and projecting. So she doesn’t appear as malicious or that she plans her attacks as much. I have read that a BPD may have alot of subconscious behaviour, where as the NPD is very conscious and calculating. A BPD may swap between fantasy thinking and the real world, but a NPD is firmly in fantasy land. I note some BPD can be treated, but never read that a NPD has had success.

My reason for asking is I wonder if anyone knows a BPD who does plan attacks covertly. I note Jeffry Archer, the British Polotician and writer is considered to be BPD, and he planed.  By plan I mean my bro will plan it out like a chess game. His attacks have been hatched over several months and come from now where (i.e. not reactionary). My BPD tends to throw everything at you there and then, a bit more reactionary. At lease that's how it appears. Does the manic behavior of a BPD mask a more sinister approach ? I note that outsiders describe my NPD bro as sinister, evil a bully. My BPD mom is normal described as scary or manic but not evil.


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Harri
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 09:12:41 AM »

Hi HappyC!  I think pwBPD are far too dysregulated to plan anything while having their breakdowns so I agree with what you said about the two.  I also think the attacks that are planned, the deliberately cruel behaviors, and the conscious breaking down of a non is more related to NPD behaviors (or perhaps this person is just a jerk outside of the disorder).  So aside from more typical jerk-like behaviors, you may be dealing with a person with both BPD and NPD.  It is not uncommon to have both. 

The only exception about the evil part of BPD that I can think of are the BPD Witch type as described by Lawson.  My mother had moments where it seemed she was deliberately cruel and I saw her as being quite evil.  These were the times when she was in witch mode which happened quite frequently.  I can't say for sure that she planned anything though it did seem that way.  I think the difference may be in the emotions that underlie the behaviors.  A Witch mothers fears annihilation and will do anything to protect herself.  A sub-type of the Witch mother is the Medean mother.  If you haven't already, do a google search on medean mothers.  Susan Smith, the woman who drowned her two young kids in her car is an example of a medean mother who planned her 'attack' on her kids.   
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isshebpd
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« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 02:17:29 PM »

HappyChappy,

Based on what you've written, it sounds like there's more going with your brother than just NPD. A lot of NPDs aren't as mean-spirited, from what I've read. They may do bad things, but it's not necessarily intentional. Do you think your brother might have ASPD (Anti-Social) too? Or maybe PPD (Paranoid)?

As for prominent politicians, they all seem to have some PD or another. 
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survivalmode27
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 03:12:32 PM »

BPD tend to be very manipulating, as a survival skill to avoid being abandoned. I have seen it from my BPDH and BPDmil. It is not that they know they are planning or scheming they are simply surviving. To save them from the fear and panic.

NP do not try to maliciously attack from what I have seen, they do however have to feel the power to feed their ego. so if that is putting people down, then that is what they do. They are never wrong, and they are never to be questioned.

Just my observation, unfortunately I seem to have some of these people in my life.
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HappyChappy
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 05:54:04 AM »

Thanks for the feedback so far, very helpful. I guess there are famous examples of BPD who plan,  but possibly they are co morbid with something else. Hence BPD typically don’t plan ? Unless anyone else can add to this.

With reference to my bro, I did look into the Sociopath side, but my NPD bro is not fearless, in fact he’s a coward like most bullies. Also he’s not fast, quite the opposite. Covert NPD is very different to NPD and often described as the “Deadliest of all NPD”. For a start they tend to be shy, modest and dysfunctional. But as they are “Covert” this requires planning.

Any other views on BPD that might plan would be helpful in that there has been a covert attack recently that requires knowledge known only to my FOO, so just wondering the likely hood that my BPDm did some planning.

Any more feedback would be welcome. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2014, 01:00:50 PM »

Very interesting thread.  My sis is comorbid BPD and NPD.  Her BPD attacks are very well planned.  Maybe the NPD is being used in service of the BPD.   Joke>> >> BPD by proxy?  Smiling (click to insert in post)

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hope2727
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2014, 09:21:01 PM »

My pwBPD was able to plan sometimes.

Once he wanted to go to an event with his NPD bestie on a night he knew we had plans. He picked a fight and broke up with me several days before the event and went NC. He attended the boys night with NPD bestie. Then my pwBPD called me 2 days later and told me how he had sat by the phone crying waiting for me to call him on the night in question. Unfortunately for him he bragged about the boys night to a mutual friend so I knew all about it. When I confronted my pwBPD he bold face lied and said he never went.

So planning is possible. They aren't dummies they are immature and manipulative. They want what they want and can't imagine having to compromise or wait for anything. They want their cake and to eat it too.
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Indie

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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2014, 10:06:05 AM »

 

I've been away for just a little bit.  Good thread, I have wondered whether my uBPDm is NPD also.  She fits the Queen with Witch description of Lawson.   My family doc said there is a difference, but we did not discuss the particulars other than him advising I stay away to preserve my health.

I have seen my mother be both reactionary and a planner.  When I think back on it though, the planning is rather short term and stems from some bit of "intel" she garnered either from me or someone close to me.  The intel, in her mind, revealed something meaningful to me or an emotional wound of mine.  She then made sure I knew she had the power to manipulate the situation to hurt me to induce me to behave as she wished.  And how she wished I behaved had everything to do with her, and not a thing to do with my well being.

Does this help with the BPD NPD puzzle?   Looking forward to more insight.

Love and peace from me.


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Beach_Babe
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2015, 09:35:34 PM »

My pwBPD was able to plan sometimes.

Once he wanted to go to an event with his NPD bestie on a night he knew we had plans. He picked a fight and broke up with me several days before the event and went NC. He attended the boys night with NPD bestie. Then my pwBPD called me 2 days later and told me how he had sat by the phone crying waiting for me to call him on the night in question. Unfortunately for him he bragged about the boys night to a mutual friend so I knew all about it. When I confronted my pwBPD he bold face lied and said he never went.

So planning is possible. They aren't dummies they are immature and manipulative. They want what they want and can't imagine having to compromise or wait for anything. They want their cake and to eat it too.

Hope:Thank you for contributing this! This is EXACTLY what my mine did before each of my planned trips to see him (6 in all since Oct) Eureka. I am not crazy.
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hope2727
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2015, 09:59:06 PM »

My pwBPD was able to plan sometimes.

Once he wanted to go to an event with his NPD bestie on a night he knew we had plans. He picked a fight and broke up with me several days before the event and went NC. He attended the boys night with NPD bestie. Then my pwBPD called me 2 days later and told me how he had sat by the phone crying waiting for me to call him on the night in question. Unfortunately for him he bragged about the boys night to a mutual friend so I knew all about it. When I confronted my pwBPD he bold face lied and said he never went.

So planning is possible. They aren't dummies they are immature and manipulative. They want what they want and can't imagine having to compromise or wait for anything. They want their cake and to eat it too.

Hope:Thank you for contributing this! This is EXACTLY what my mine did before each of my planned trips to see him (6 in all since Oct) Eureka. I am not crazy.

Nope not crazy just manipulated and abused. I feel like a crazy person too. I feel like a total loser. But I am not. Neither are you. We are wonderful people who thought we were with wonderful equals. Turns out we were duped. We shall survive. It won't be easy but we will. Hang in there.
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Beach_Babe
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2015, 10:29:09 PM »

Everytime he ditched me, he would make me feel so guilty. It worked too, as I ended up profusely apologizing to him. He'd deny everything when confronted, and tell me I was accusing and attacking him. I felt like a monster (which im sure is exactly what he told the new one). Why do you think we still miss them then?
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anxiety5
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2015, 10:47:50 PM »

I was told by a therapist that all BPD are NPD but not all NPD are BPD. The common link is the false self. That by definition is narcissistic. Think about it. How could someone with BPD who has a false ego to self regulate, not be highly narcissistic? But the highly narcissistic may not necessarily have the emotional outbursts. NPD's are usually counter-dependant. They don't emotionally attach or even understand what that means.

My ex had the emotional outbursts and episodes, wherein I'd drive over her house and she was randomly standing outside curled up in a ball crying, and her child roaming around the yard by himself all because she locked her keys in her car. Or she would flip out over unimportant things, rage, slam doors, leave the house, chain smoke cigarettes and cry, etc.  She would wear herself out and then almost hibernate in depression for a few days.

But despite everything I mention here, she was HIGHLY narcissistic. She was a totalitarian control freak. I got a sense I wasn't allowed to leave her house on certain mornings. She had a sadistic streak that liked tormenting my insecurities. She was a closet BDSM type in bed. She didn't want foreplay, she wanted exactly what she wanted and I was just an object to gratify her. During sex she would try to plant seeds in my head by saying things repetitively over weeks. It started with "You will never find someone hotter than me" that turned to "we are going to start having rules" that turned to "I own you. I control you. You are basically my slave" Crazy stuff. All of her fantasies involved some far away time when we "broke up" (further proof she never took our relationship seriously. I was a cog to fill her void) And I'm married, and can't resist her and she would describe how I would leave my family to be with her, and then she would reject me so I was alone. I remember laughing when she would say this stuff. It was so ridiculous but very telling too.

She once cheated on me, refused to discuss it. Told me I had nothing to complain about because she had been through a divorce and that was way worse, and then when I tried to tell her the way I felt she told me that this relationship was making her feel bad about her self and she needed a relationship that would focus on her needs, and one that made her feel good about herself.

Jesus in retrospect that one epic rant by her was like when a catatonic person wakes up from a 10 year coma and is cognitively functioning and coherent before being swept back into never never land. Fleeting, never lasted.

She was highly materialistic, loved to triangulate and create jealousy, dominating, she had a managerial position where she could boss people around. She never accepted blame for anything. If she knew you liked something she would take it away, or deprive you of it. She was highly sexual at first and then verbally told me once she was going to use sex to control me.

She was a sarcastic person so she had these lucid truths that she'd cleverly pitch as jokes, but they were windows into her intentions and her soul.

These are her traits. So you see, there is no cornering her into one box or the other. She clearly has strong traits of both disorders.

The therapist really helped me understand how ALL the cluster B's are similar at their core. It's less about which one they are, it's more about them just being in that cluster. If they are, run. No one condition is less malignant than the other. They all involve the same insane cycles of craziness in relationships and they are all equally impossible at having healthy relationships if not in treatment.
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