How much is too much... how long is too long?

[nightmoves]

So I am on week 2 of my BPDw being in a completely agitated, dismissive, ugly, combative mood.

I (thanks for so much I learned here) have been able to avoid and not trigger the all out rages and fury that once occured so often.

This is different.

This is a seemingly constant state of ugliness.

Just meaness that  - for lack of a better explanation - seems like internal ANGER and HATE... .just jumping out.

I can simply wake in the AM... .make her some coffee... .and  just say "good morning"... .and be hit with am OVERT ugliness. Attitude, tone, tenor of complete contempt and disdain.

I have TRIED... .to discuss with her.

Sh will not.

I have at least gotten her to say ... .it has nothing to do with you.

I have asked her... ."are you mad at me"?

She has said no... .and to stop asking.

OK... fair.

But then ... .how long am I supposed to just be treated like crap? I LIVE in this house.

We are married so there are numerous items/issues... .the we NEED to interact on.

So when is enough... .enough?

WHO would want to be treated so disrespectfully ... .24/7?

She seems like she is inside her own world.

Seems VERY much more DARK and depressed than I have seen her in a while.

In some ways... .it FEELS like my NOT engaging in the traps I fell into in the past has - if anything - INCREASED her dis-regulation.

I hope I am describing this clearly... .but try and picture beign around a person who is just UGLY and DISMISSIVE to you for ANYTHING.

EVERYTHING I say... is an excuse for a dismissive and ugly comment.

SO my question is... .when is enough enough?

HOW - do I get this to stop?

I am NOT a loser in my "real life". I would NEVER let anyone else talk or treat me this way... .and THIS is MY SPOUSE.

I do NOT understand that refusal to discuss this. I have tried to in SUCH gentle and kind terms get her to just let me know what is bothering her. Let me just understand.

She get MAD when I do that.

Then - I say - ok I then don't need to know ... .I will trust it is nothing I am doing or about me - but then can I get you to then just stop treating me so badly.

'Her answer was... .?

"F--k You"

And then she walked out the room.

I realize we need to have compassion. I have that. A lot of that.

I realize we need to not trigger. I do that... .pretty well now.

I realize we need to have boundaries - I am much better about that.

BUT - what I am talking about is a pervasive and adamant constant tone/tenor at me 24/7 in my own house.

I cannot simply go for a constant "walk".

AND... .how do partners - married couple - parents of a vibrant family with a lot going on ... .simply NOT interact?

If I interact ... .about anything... .I get treated like CRAP.

I feel that I am NOT doing myself any favors by just "taking it"... .

(been there -done that - when she "succeeded in making me FEEL like things were my fault - I was to blame - and in essence - I DESERVED this treatment.

But ... I now KNOW I am not.

I KNOW I am NOT doing nothing wrong to warrant this.

SO... .I no longer  want to just  take this stuff anymore.

BPD or not - it is not right.

I am the type of person... that if someone came up to me in any part of my life or career and said... ."you know... .when you say "XYZ"... .that really hurts me"

Th n I ABSOLUTELY want to hear that... .and ABSOLUTELY want to correct it.

It does NOT matter to me ... .what it is... or whether or not I can make sense out of it... .I just stop saying the word "XYZ"

This is my WIFE who I a trying to say ... "you know you are really being terrible to me"

and NOT only does she NOT want to hear it ... .

but her response is

"F--K You"?

And continues?

Anyone please give me some suggestions... .

Thank you

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[formflier]

 

Go on offense.

Read up on validation again... .and lay it on.  Validate emotions that she has.


Think of non-offensive things to do... .quick walk... that kind of thing.  Let her know you are going... .and would like her to come.  And go... .if she comes... .fine.

don't make big deal either way.

Try to "detach" a little bit... .so you can watch and observe.  You want to look for triggers... .look for emotions.  And best of all... .look for good responses... good behaviors.  Reinforce those.

I suspect that you have got a little bit of education under your belt and have put some changes in place... .she is picking up on that... .it is making her uncomfortable.  This it totally a guess.

Then... .this is totally for you... .find time to work on not taking it personally.  This is hard... .  This was my big challenge.  Still work on it. 

Last... .where are you at on getting through the lessons?  Keep reading them...

[Grey Kitty]

nightmoves, I could come up with some good suggestions about using the tools, reading the lessons, and how to behave in ways that could be expected to improve your r/s.

You've already figured a lot of this out.

What I can't do is answer your question: How much is too much?

That's something only you can answer.

[formflier]

 

I'll chime in and say that there have been many times when I thought I had reached my limit... .and the next day was better... .and I was able to go on.

What you don't want to do is make a hasty decision when you are worked up about something. 

Try to make sure you are settled down and take a good and bad inventory.  Take inventory of tools you have tried and the effect on the r/s.  Once you see the r/s moving in a positive direction... .that will give you hope.  Sometimes that takes a while...

[nightmoves]

Thank you both. Very much.

It has been a rough couple of weeks.

The thing that always gets me - is when things are going much better - and then - without

warning or ANY discernable reason... .she gets in a VERY angry and agitated and irritable mood and the result is she thows ugliness and blame at me. (essentially paining me black).

And it is now low grade... .it is with most ANYTHING. I could simply walk into the room.

And she is completely dismissive or contemptuous.

It REALLY pushes me down -wears me out.

After it goes on for a considerable time... .I seem to always default to it is that she just hates me... .doesn't want me as a spouse, etc... .etc... .


In my logical mind... .it is the only explanation left.

I have made it very clear how much she is being horrible to me. I have TRIED to illicit what is wrong and what I can do to help. No dialog. No cessation.

Additionally, she just stops doing anything around the house, stops discussing the many projects or paths we are on, stops doing most anything but "being" in this mood.

I may have chosen a bit of the wron impression on the title of this thread. The "when is enough enough" was not as much about ending the r/s... .but more about when does one try to STOP the ugliness... .and how?

[Grey Kitty]

The "when is enough enough" was not as much about ending the r/s... .but more about when does one try to STOP the ugliness... .and how?

When? My answer would be now or two weeks ago.

How?  That is a problem.

In the case of the abuse you can use a boundary in person by simply refusing to be there when it's happening. That boundary is effective. This is more like the silent treatment which while abusive is not something active that you can stop and it is very easy for her to pretend she's not doing to you and therefore ignore your request to stop.

All you can do is spend more time away from her when she's being ugly like this. Take care of yourself and wait for her to decide she actually wants to spend time with you.

I recommend you go to the lessons and find the workshop on the silent treatment. This is close enough to that the advice there should help.

[nightmoves]

Thank you Grey Kitty.

The answer to "when"... .made me smile... .;-)

[ColdEthyl]

Stick in there, Nightmoves. Like all the good advice you have gotten, the hardest part for us nons is understand this behavior is not technically directed at us, though we are the ones they try to lash out on.

Take a step back and take your emotions out of the equation. You will drive yourself nuts with the why's... .because the answers are never going to be logical. Being in a r/s with a pwBPD is very challenging. We have to look at things in an almost backwards fashion to get some understanding.

If she says it's not you... .it's not. And we already knew it wasn't. Try to enjoy YOUR day and YOUR life. If she wants to pout and be angry, that's absolutely fine. However, you are also entitled to not listen to it. I like that walk idea. If she's being verbally abusive, explain to her calmly that you will not listen to her if that's the way she wants to speak to you, that you are going for a walk and you will be back say... .15-30 minutes.

[Grey Kitty]

nightmoves, I'm glad you found something to smile about. I'm not finding much these days.

I see you hitting the same paradox that I'm personally being kicked in the balls by right now:

1. Their behavior isn't about us at all.

2. Their behavior hurts us terribly.

Both these things are true. It seems like one of them should reduce the other. It seems like a paradox.

I know that taking the hurt personally isn't helping me... .and I try not to do that... .but it still hurts.

 GK

[formflier]

In my logical mind... .it is the only explanation left.

I have a logical mind as well... .it's not very useful in dealing with pwBPD.

So... .try to wrap your head around training your mind to find a "new logic"... .or an "order to the disorder"... .to help put the behaviors that are affecting you in the proper perspective.

Also... don't try to figure out "exactly"... .what or why they are doing things.

You want to get to the point where you see behavior xyz... and go... hmmm something is bothering her... .looks to be fear based even though she is saying it is because I did abc... .so... .let's prescribes some validation... a little bit of truth... .and check it in the morning.

Retraining your mind can help not take it personally... .but that... .as Grey Kitty and many others have said... .is very hard.

[nightmoves]

Thank you Formflier.

Yes... .I am a very logical thinker who likes the understand.

Not helping me with BPD... .at all... .

(you gotta laugh sometimes I guess... .)

[formflier]

Thank you Formflier.

Yes... .I am a very logical thinker who likes the understand.

Not helping me with BPD... .at all... .

(you gotta laugh sometimes I guess... .)

It will eventually help... .but it will be "new logic".  Don't give up the old... .learn the patterns of BPD.  But... .don't "accept" them... .just use the knowledge to help understand the r/s patterns. 

Once you understand that... .and start to use that knowledge for influence... .to improve the r/s... .that will give you hope.

[Heartandsole]

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