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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Trying and failing to be friends with uBPDxgf  (Read 536 times)
cleverusername
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« on: October 27, 2014, 12:58:01 PM »

It's been almost 3 months since the breakup and I've started feeling a lot better about things, and I think I'm ready to truly be friends with my ex. I have done my part in trying to remain friendly and we text each other once in a while but recently as soon as I ask how she's doing and what's going on in her life she stops responding. I know that things were a little strained because a few weeks ago she found out that my sister had drunkenly told mutual friends that she was crazy, but I apologized on my sisters behalf (and my sister also apologized) and when I asked if we were still on good terms she told me we were. I then asked how how she's been doing and she didn't respond. Most recently I FB messaged her a link to an iPhone app I knew she'd like, and she replied enthusiastically and said she'd try it. I then asked "so how have you been, what's new?" and she viewed the message but never responded.

At this point I'm not really upset about it, I'm just looking at it from a perspective of trying to understand what's going on in her head, which I know is impossible to say, but I'm curious. AFAIK she's still dating my replacement, so things are probably going pretty well since she's probably still in the idealization phase, so I don't get why she wouldn't tell me about that or at least say "I've been good, how are you?" She actually hasn't mentioned the guy to me at all since our breakup finalization meeting where she told me she was already seeing this guy and went into detail about him.

The only ways I can rationalize it are:

1. She's painted me black and truly doesn't want to be friends. This would be odd though because she can always block me on FB, tell me she doesn't want to talk to me anymore, etc.

2. She was actually hurt more by the breakup than I was and needs more time to heal. I kind of doubt this because of how quickly she got back to dating and seems to be in a relationship now.

3. Things are going well with her new guy but she doesn't want to tell me and hurt me or cause me to lash out at her. When I started dating her a week after she broke up with her ex, a few weeks in she told him that we were officially in a relationship, and he called her a ___ apparently. This doesn't make much sense though because I could see her FB posts about my replacement if I wanted to (I just know she posts about him because my sister told me).

4. She wants me to be the one to initiate a talk about her new relationship. She could be waiting/hoping for me to lash out with jealousy or a show of emotion about it. Maybe she feels that since I haven't done this that I don't really care about her. She could be thinking "you know what I've been up to, don't act like you don't... ."

Any other ideas? Has anyone else experienced this sort of behavior?
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cleverusername
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2014, 09:38:29 AM »

It's been a week now and still no response. I'm not sure what to do because I really don't want to lose her as a friend but I feel like I'm going to if I don't say something. I know pwBPD often recycle but I don't even want to be recycled, I just want to be a part of her life in some way, so it doesn't feel right to do what others seem to do when they want to be recycled: go NC until she wants you back.

People probably think I'm weird for wanting to be friends with her but it's hard for me. I've never been as close to someone as I was with her and even though I'm over wanting to be in a relationship with her it hurts to be completely out of her life.

Anyway, I've been thinking about texting her and asking why it seems that she doesn't want to let me into her life at all recently. I could say something like "Hey ___. So it seems like maybe you aren't ready to talk to me about what's going on in your life just yet, but I just wanted to let you know that I really care about you and to let me know when you're ready to be friends. I'd love to grab a drink and catch up some day."

Does this seem like a good idea? When we met up to discuss the breakup as we said goodbye she did say that she thought we could be friends and that we should get drinks together sometime. I just don't want to push her further away... .
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Startattoo2

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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2014, 09:49:13 AM »

My heart tells me I want to be friends with my ex.

My head tells me to run.

I'll miss her, and I'd like to be friends, but I'll see how it works out. She's kind of stalking me via text, and I just need more time away from her.

Good luck with yours, but I think any relationship with a BPD person is doomed to failure due to them.
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Aussie0zborn
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2014, 09:51:22 AM »

You don't want to push her further away? Like you don't want to push her as far away as she has pushed you? And she has a new boyfriend?

Let her carry on with her life and leave her to her own devices. I understand it is hard for you, I've been there, but if she truly has BPD then you are setting yourself up for disappointment.  We can forgive others for disappointing us but it's harder when you disappoint yourself and that's the road you're heading towards and I would suggest that will be even harder for you.

You might consider seeing a therapist to get over this pain. Maintaining a friendship with an ex BPD partner is not going to help it in any way. Good luck.
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Agent_of_Chaos
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 10:01:27 AM »

It's been a week now and still no response. I'm not sure what to do because I really don't want to lose her as a friend but I feel like I'm going to if I don't say something. I know pwBPD often recycle but I don't even want to be recycled, I just want to be a part of her life in some way, so it doesn't feel right to do what others seem to do when they want to be recycled: go NC until she wants you back.

People probably think I'm weird for wanting to be friends with her but it's hard for me. I've never been as close to someone as I was with her and even though I'm over wanting to be in a relationship with her it hurts to be completely out of her life.

Anyway, I've been thinking about texting her and asking why it seems that she doesn't want to let me into her life at all recently. I could say something like "Hey ___. So it seems like maybe you aren't ready to talk to me about what's going on in your life just yet, but I just wanted to let you know that I really care about you and to let me know when you're ready to be friends. I'd love to grab a drink and catch up some day."

Does this seem like a good idea? When we met up to discuss the breakup as we said goodbye she did say that she thought we could be friends and that we should get drinks together sometime. I just don't want to push her further away... .

I understand where you are coming from.  I am attempting to remain in light contact with my X providing she seeks the treatment she so desperately needs.  I am treading on the line of caution because I don't want this to conflict with my grieving process.  I need to put my needs first and so long as I am setting boundaries, I will give it a go.

From an honest point of view, maintaining a friendship is hard.  There are questions I want to ask... .but I can't.  There are things I want to say... .but I can't.  Coming on here and reading this forum I have a better grip of the disorder and realize what I am dealing with.  People with BPD do not think, feel, nor operate that we do.  Sure you may reach out but her not answering is a typical behavior of someone with BPD.  One minute you are "painted white", the next minute "painted black", and they don't have the ability to care on the level that a non does.  I am not saying all sufferers with BPD are emotionless robots, they just process differently.

These relationships are hard to interpret to us NONS.  Often times we don't know why the act the way they do.  Their train of thought seems to skip back and forth and we are unable to make sense of it.  I don't think they even know how to make sense of it which adds to their confusing manners.  There is obviously something that triggered your X to act the way she is acting.  Remember the more you reach out the further she will pull.

To me, I think your heart is warm, gentle, and kind so forgive me for my next statement.  I don't think you are truly ready to just be her friend.  That is normal my friend.  The heart wants what the heart wants.  You are still pouring your energy into "chasing" her and clearly she can't be bothered.  You state that you have never been as close to someone as you were with her... .seems like wanting to be friends is an attempt to pacify that heartache. I understand, trust me.  The loneliness, bruised ego, and rejection from someone we simply wanted to adore chills us to the bone.

I know most people on here will recommend NC and it seems to assist a vast majority of people detaching from the relationship.  People with BPD have the power to suck us back in even when we don't realize it.  If you need to reach out to her to give yourself some closure, and I use that term loosely, then perhaps that's what you need to do.  Just remember that there is a very strong possibility that she may not reply.  If she doesn't there is a very strong possibility of sadness setting in.
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Tater tot
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2014, 10:52:35 AM »

It's been almost 3 months since the breakup and I've started feeling a lot better about things, and I think I'm ready to truly be friends with my ex. I have done my part in trying to remain friendly and we text each other once in a while but recently as soon as I ask how she's doing and what's going on in her life she stops responding.

I've experienced this exact same thing. In attempts to maintain a friendship with my ex, i've asked the most basic questions. The one thing that has remained consistent is the he WILL NOT respond about how he is doing, or if I ask ANYTHING about his life. He will only respond to impersonal questions or comments.

I then asked how how she's been doing and she didn't respond. Most recently I FB messaged her a link to an iPhone app I knew she'd like, and she replied enthusiastically and said she'd try it. I then asked "so how have you been, what's new?" and she viewed the message but never responded.

Yes, i've done the same thing, and am able to see when I'm being ignored.

The only ways I can rationalize it are:

1. She's painted me black and truly doesn't want to be friends. This would be odd though because she can always block me on FB, tell me she doesn't want to talk to me anymore, etc. Yes, this would make sense. However they won't officially tell you they don't want you in their life, they probably don't know, or more accurately want to keep you on a string. Mine won't block me on FB either, so I finally did. I don't think they care enough to block on FB.

2. She was actually hurt more by the breakup than I was and needs more time to heal. I kind of doubt this because of how quickly she got back to dating and seems to be in a relationship now.

This makes you feel better, but it's simply not true. I thought the same thing. Reality is they are able to turn their feelings on and off, and to them, how they feel is a fact. If they care about someone else, they don't care about you and in that moment, that's a fact. Or if they feel you are going to leave them, it's a fact.


4. She wants me to be the one to initiate a talk about her new relationship. She could be waiting/hoping for me to lash out with jealousy or a show of emotion about it. Maybe she feels that since I haven't done this that I don't really care about her. She could be thinking "you know what I've been up to, don't act like you don't... ."

She isn't thinking about you. Nothing about the relationship has been about you. For her, it's not important how you feel, or what's going on in your life because it doesn't affect her or make her feel better- so what's the point.

Any other ideas? Has anyone else experienced this sort of behavior?

Sorry to be so blunt above but I literally just went through everything that you are saying, I could have written it word for word. I tried the friend thing, and I was confused because my ex seemed to want to remain connected and as friends, but wouldn't respond to anything more than the very surface stuff. Never once did he ask how I was, what I was doing, etc.

After 4 months, I finally pushed him to the breaking point (because the more you reach out the more you push away). He tried to tell me that I was the bad friend, for demanding responses and to know how he was doing. In reality a friend asks about you, responds to texts or calls and is able to have a conversation.

Once we stop giving them what they need (or they perceive that we can no longer give them what they need), they don't have a use for us. I don't believe it's intentional, it's just the way they are. The disorder manifests in struggles to maintain relationships, we think it's limited to romantic relationships, but it really is all relationships, even friendship.

My recommendation is NC. If you want to maintain a friendship with her, understand that you have to change your view on what friendship means.
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antelope
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 11:03:42 AM »

ask yourself these questions:

-what is your real, brutally honest reason for wanting to be friends with her... .does it really have anything to do with her as a person, or is it about your unwillingness to completely detach?

-what would a friendship with this type of person look like?  does she have any real friends in her life?  how does she treat them?  what kind of people are they?

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Agent_of_Chaos
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 11:22:17 AM »

ask yourself these questions:

-what is your real, brutally honest reason for wanting to be friends with her... .does it really have anything to do with her as a person, or is it about your unwillingness to completely detach?

-what would a friendship with this type of person look like?  does she have any real friends in her life?  how does she treat them?  what kind of people are they?

I have the tendency to be extremely long winded... .you managed to shed some bright light in less than a paragraph.  I think I'm going to print this post out as a reminder to keep myself in check.  Kudos to you.
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cleverusername
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 03:08:02 PM »

You don't want to push her further away? Like you don't want to push her as far away as she has pushed you? And she has a new boyfriend?

Let her carry on with her life and leave her to her own devices. I understand it is hard for you, I've been there, but if she truly has BPD then you are setting yourself up for disappointment.  We can forgive others for disappointing us but it's harder when you disappoint yourself and that's the road you're heading towards and I would suggest that will be even harder for you.

You might consider seeing a therapist to get over this pain. Maintaining a friendship with an ex BPD partner is not going to help it in any way. Good luck.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying but now that I understand the disorder I get why she pushed me away. Not that I'm 100% sure she has BPD, and that's another thing that makes me feel like a friendship may be worth salvaging. As far as the pain, I'm really not in much pain. It does suck wanting to be friends when someone isn't being receptive but it's no longer heartbreak like it was before.

I understand where you are coming from.  I am attempting to remain in light contact with my X providing she seeks the treatment she so desperately needs.  I am treading on the line of caution because I don't want this to conflict with my grieving process.  I need to put my needs first and so long as I am setting boundaries, I will give it a go.

From an honest point of view, maintaining a friendship is hard.  There are questions I want to ask... .but I can't.  There are things I want to say... .but I can't.  Coming on here and reading this forum I have a better grip of the disorder and realize what I am dealing with.  People with BPD do not think, feel, nor operate that we do.  Sure you may reach out but her not answering is a typical behavior of someone with BPD.  One minute you are "painted white", the next minute "painted black", and they don't have the ability to care on the level that a non does.  I am not saying all sufferers with BPD are emotionless robots, they just process differently.

Yeah, I guess she may have painted me black now due to hearing that my sister called her crazy. She probably linked that to me thinking she's crazy because my sister has never met her so talking to my sister about my ex is all she had to base that opinion on. It's just weird that she can reply enthusiastically to something I tell her about and then not want to talk when I try to move the conversation forward.

These relationships are hard to interpret to us NONS.  Often times we don't know why the act the way they do.  Their train of thought seems to skip back and forth and we are unable to make sense of it.  I don't think they even know how to make sense of it which adds to their confusing manners.  There is obviously something that triggered your X to act the way she is acting.  Remember the more you reach out the further she will pull.

To me, I think your heart is warm, gentle, and kind so forgive me for my next statement.  I don't think you are truly ready to just be her friend.  That is normal my friend.  The heart wants what the heart wants.  You are still pouring your energy into "chasing" her and clearly she can't be bothered.  You state that you have never been as close to someone as you were with her... .seems like wanting to be friends is an attempt to pacify that heartache. I understand, trust me.  The loneliness, bruised ego, and rejection from someone we simply wanted to adore chills us to the bone.

The thing is, I do really think I'm ready to be friends. It's been 3 months now and I've moved on from the relationship and I'm dating girls. I think I just get really attached to people. I have never abruptly lost someone I was close with before (at least without them dying, in which case there's no feeling of having the potential for that person to still be a part of your life).

I'm also just a really sentimental person. I save almost any item that has some sort of important memory attached to it and I've been this way for as long as I can remember. When I think about how people throw away all pictures of their exes, I don't understand that mentality at all. If someone/something meant a lot to me at some point, I want to always remember it, even if things didn't end on the best terms. One time my ex and I were at her mothers house and she noticed that her mom still had a framed picture of her and her ex before me. She grabbed it, took the picture out, and threw it right in the trash. Her mother was like "are you sure you want to throw it away, that's a nice picture" but that didn't change her mind. I didn't get how she could do that.

I know most people on here will recommend NC and it seems to assist a vast majority of people detaching from the relationship.  People with BPD have the power to suck us back in even when we don't realize it.  If you need to reach out to her to give yourself some closure, and I use that term loosely, then perhaps that's what you need to do.  Just remember that there is a very strong possibility that she may not reply.  If she doesn't there is a very strong possibility of sadness setting in.

Yeah, I know that there is a strong possibility that she won't reply. I think I'd be a little sad but it may be the best closure I'm going to get. I think I'll wait it out for now and see if she eventually contacts me.
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cleverusername
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 03:08:24 PM »

Sorry to be so blunt above but I literally just went through everything that you are saying, I could have written it word for word. I tried the friend thing, and I was confused because my ex seemed to want to remain connected and as friends, but wouldn't respond to anything more than the very surface stuff. Never once did he ask how I was, what I was doing, etc.

After 4 months, I finally pushed him to the breaking point (because the more you reach out the more you push away). He tried to tell me that I was the bad friend, for demanding responses and to know how he was doing. In reality a friend asks about you, responds to texts or calls and is able to have a conversation.

Once we stop giving them what they need (or they perceive that we can no longer give them what they need), they don't have a use for us. I don't believe it's intentional, it's just the way they are. The disorder manifests in struggles to maintain relationships, we think it's limited to romantic relationships, but it really is all relationships, even friendship.

My recommendation is NC. If you want to maintain a friendship with her, understand that you have to change your view on what friendship means.

That's really interesting that you went through such similar circumstances. For me, there was a time early on after the breakup where she would actually respond when I'd ask how she's been but recent events with my sister telling her friends she's crazy seems to have changed that. I'm not pushing her though, I have asked her how she's been a couple times but I haven't pestered her about it about it to where she'd hit a breaking point.

And you're right, it does seem like she may just not be able to maintain a relationship. I guess it's just hard now that I know what I know about the disorder. It's like instead of just seeing someone as pushing someone who is only trying to be a friend away, I know that it's the disorder pushing me away and that friends who care about her unconditionally is what she needs.
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cleverusername
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2014, 03:13:59 PM »

-what is your real, brutally honest reason for wanting to be friends with her... .does it really have anything to do with her as a person, or is it about your unwillingness to completely detach?

It's tough to say what my honest reason for wanting to be friends with her is. When it comes down to it, I guess all friendships happen because the person makes you feel good in some way. It's kind of like the question of "do people do good to others out of pure altruism or because doing good to others makes them feel good." I know that we shared a lot in common and got along great when things were good.

I should also mention that more than two years ago we met online but didn't meet in person at the time, but we knew we had great chemistry and found one another incredibly easy to talk to. She ended up meeting someone else before me (the guy I would end up replacing) and dated him for a year and a half. She told me when she started dating him and apologized for not getting a chance to meet me before getting into a relationship. I was just happy for her and there were no hard feelings.

At one point I actually remember her asking me who the person was that I most wanted to talk to after having a bad day, and we had become so close through just texting that I told her that person was her (I really don't have many friends I feel that I can complain about the bad things in life with, haha). She lived not all that close though and considering she had a boyfriend I didn't push to meet her, so life got in the way and eventually we lost touch. But I guess this plays a part in why I want to be friends so badly, because I know how great of a person she can be and how she has been a great friend to me in the past for a brief period of time.

I also feel that since after the breakup I have come to suspect she has BPD it kind of makes me more sympathetic. It's hard not to feel that you could be friends with someone when you liked them so much previously and realize that the things you didn't like about them were caused by a disorder. It's also tough feeling like I'm probably the only person that knows that she may have BPD and I'm the only one who can sympathize and maybe eventually help her or get her help.

As far as being detached, I'm pretty sure that at this point I'm pretty detached from wanting to have a romantic relationship with her, which is what leads me to believe I'm ready to be friends.

-what would a friendship with this type of person look like?  does she have any real friends in her life?  how does she treat them?  what kind of people are they?

She doesn't really have many friends in her life. The whole time we were together I met a few groups of her friends, but almost all of them were very new friends for her (like, she's known them a year or less). But it's tough to really say because she lives in a different state than she grew up and went to college in (only an hour or two away, but still). But even so, it really didn't seem like she had any good friends from high school, etc, that she was still in touch with. She definitely tries to make friends with almost everyone she meets though. Like to a weird extent. She met my friends girlfriend one time and she got her phone number and would text her as if they were best buddies. Of course since our relationship ended she unfriended this girl on FB and is no longer in touch.

I'm not sure how she treats the few friends she has but it seems like she treats them well, and they seem to be good people. I never saw or heard about any fighting between her and her friends. I almost get the feeling like she saves most of her BPD behaviors for her boyfriend. She is very high functioning.

So it's hard to say what a friendship with her would look like, but I do feel that it is worth giving a shot if she'll ever be receptive to it.
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Agent_of_Chaos
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2014, 03:26:54 PM »


The thing is, I do really think I'm ready to be friends. It's been 3 months now and I've moved on from the relationship and I'm dating girls. I think I just get really attached to people. I have never abruptly lost someone I was close with before (at least without them dying, in which case there's no feeling of having the potential for that person to still be a part of your life).

I'm also just a really sentimental person. I save almost any item that has some sort of important memory attached to it and I've been this way for as long as I can remember. When I think about how people throw away all pictures of their exes, I don't understand that mentality at all. If someone/something meant a lot to me at some point, I want to always remember it, even if things didn't end on the best terms. One time my ex and I were at her mothers house and she noticed that her mom still had a framed picture of her and her ex before me. She grabbed it, took the picture out, and threw it right in the trash. Her mother was like "are you sure you want to throw it away, that's a nice picture" but that didn't change her mind. I didn't get how she could do that.[/quote]
You and I seem to be cut from the same cloth:-)  When I let someone in... .they are in.
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rosannadanna
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2014, 03:49:38 PM »

 
Excerpt
I think I just get really attached to people.

Excerpt
I'm also just a really sentimental person.

It sounds like you are still preoccupied with her and her issues, but if you are doing any self-reflection, really try to dissect these statements above that you made.

Excerpt
It's also tough feeling like I'm probably the only person that knows that she may have BPD and I'm the only one who can sympathize and maybe eventually help her or get her help.

Based on this statement, it sounds like you are not detached from your belief that you are "the special one" who can fix her.

It might be helpful to check out the staying tools and learn about radical acceptance.

My opinion as someone on the leaving board is that you are thinking waaaaaaaay more about this relationship than she is or was.  It seems like a lot of your time is spent processing all this stuff in your own head and it's all other-oriented (her).  I have ":)on't make someone a priority if they only consider you an option" posted in front of my computer (along with some other good daily affirmation stuff) and it helped early on (I am 11 months out of 4 yr r/s). Crap, I have to run, but I hope this helps and none meant to offend Smiling (click to insert in post)

Take care and good luck on your journey Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2014, 04:08:17 PM »

Ill share a bit of my experience trying to be friends.

I was still hurting at the time and she acted like nothing had ever happened. I wanted her to appolgize and for us to have a conversation where we sort of moved past our issues and put them to rest.  This was not something she was able to do in a convincing manor.  Plus I was really wanting to recycle with her. This was all before I found out about BPD.  I had not gotten to a place where I had fully healed and I had expectations out of the friendship for all these reasons it was doomed to fail. 

I'm not saying it's impossible to be friends with them after but it's important to be honest with yourself about what your expectations are from a friendship.  When it is just friends you can expect to probably hear about her other attachments and opposite sex friends.   Also because of her history she will most likely view it as something more than friendship but with no obligations.  Prepare to have you boundaries tested.  If you havnt gotten to a place where you naturally without effort in force your boundaries and you still have expectations I think you should be prepared to get hurt.  You will have to have done the inner work on yourself and accept the interaction for what it is and be ok with that.
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Tater tot
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2014, 04:28:17 PM »

Sorry to be so blunt above but I literally just went through everything that you are saying, I could have written it word for word. I tried the friend thing, and I was confused because my ex seemed to want to remain connected and as friends, but wouldn't respond to anything more than the very surface stuff. Never once did he ask how I was, what I was doing, etc.

After 4 months, I finally pushed him to the breaking point (because the more you reach out the more you push away). He tried to tell me that I was the bad friend, for demanding responses and to know how he was doing. In reality a friend asks about you, responds to texts or calls and is able to have a conversation.

Once we stop giving them what they need (or they perceive that we can no longer give them what they need), they don't have a use for us. I don't believe it's intentional, it's just the way they are. The disorder manifests in struggles to maintain relationships, we think it's limited to romantic relationships, but it really is all relationships, even friendship.

My recommendation is NC. If you want to maintain a friendship with her, understand that you have to change your view on what friendship means.

That's really interesting that you went through such similar circumstances. For me, there was a time early on after the breakup where she would actually respond when I'd ask how she's been but recent events with my sister telling her friends she's crazy seems to have changed that. I'm not pushing her though, I have asked her how she's been a couple times but I haven't pestered her about it about it to where she'd hit a breaking point.

And you're right, it does seem like she may just not be able to maintain a relationship. I guess it's just hard now that I know what I know about the disorder. It's like instead of just seeing someone as pushing someone who is only trying to be a friend away, I know that it's the disorder pushing me away and that friends who care about her unconditionally is what she needs.

I totally get where you are coming from. My ex was my high school sweetheart, and then we reconnected 14 plus years later, so there is a lot of sentimentality attached to him. As well my rational thinking "surely i'm really important to him, because he found me all these years later, wanted a second chance, never forgot me, etc.".  In the end, none of this was true, or rather it was true, in that moment when he did find me and did reconnect with me, until the devaluation started.

It was so hard for me to wrap my head around. And like you, I literally told him, I will never abandon you and I care about you unconditionally. I foolishly thought me being a constant in his life, when everyone else left him, would help him, or cure him, or fix him. It won't, it can't and it doesn't. The disorder prevents them from connecting on any level of any depth. It doesn't make sense and it's not logical, but sadly it's the truth.

I've decided to still care about him, just in my own space. But for my health and healing, I can't be an active part of his life. I wish you the best and hope that you are able to be friends. I just share this because our situations are IDENTICAL in what you've written here. Surely they aren't the same people, so it's just a sympton of how the disorder effects a personal ability to handle personal relationships.
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antelope
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2014, 05:10:15 PM »

-what is your real, brutally honest reason for wanting to be friends with her... .does it really have anything to do with her as a person, or is it about your unwillingness to completely detach?

I also feel that since after the breakup I have come to suspect she has BPD it kind of makes me more sympathetic. It's hard not to feel that you could be friends with someone when you liked them so much previously and realize that the things you didn't like about them were caused by a disorder. It's also tough feeling like I'm probably the only person that knows that she may have BPD and I'm the only one who can sympathize and maybe eventually help her or get her help.

^^this is the essence behind the 'fixer'/'savior' mentality that has led many of us to this place... .what you want isn't to sympathize with her pain, but for someone to sympathize with yours 

spend this time figuring out why you got involved with this person,

why you stayed,

and why you continue trying to forge a relationship with someone completely incapable of reciprocity, consistent honesty, or emotional stability... .

help YOU!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

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Tater tot
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2014, 05:56:17 PM »

-what is your real, brutally honest reason for wanting to be friends with her... .does it really have anything to do with her as a person, or is it about your unwillingness to completely detach?

I also feel that since after the breakup I have come to suspect she has BPD it kind of makes me more sympathetic. It's hard not to feel that you could be friends with someone when you liked them so much previously and realize that the things you didn't like about them were caused by a disorder. It's also tough feeling like I'm probably the only person that knows that she may have BPD and I'm the only one who can sympathize and maybe eventually help her or get her help.

^^this is the essence behind the 'fixer'/'savior' mentality that has led many of us to this place... .what you want isn't to sympathize with her pain, but for someone to sympathize with yours 

spend this time figuring out why you got involved with this person,

why you stayed,

and why you continue trying to forge a relationship with someone completely incapable of reciprocity, consistent honesty, or emotional stability... .

help YOU!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Great advice Smiling (click to insert in post)
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cleverusername
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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2014, 10:21:17 AM »

I totally get where you are coming from. My ex was my high school sweetheart, and then we reconnected 14 plus years later, so there is a lot of sentimentality attached to him. As well my rational thinking "surely i'm really important to him, because he found me all these years later, wanted a second chance, never forgot me, etc.".  In the end, none of this was true, or rather it was true, in that moment when he did find me and did reconnect with me, until the devaluation started.

It was so hard for me to wrap my head around. And like you, I literally told him, I will never abandon you and I care about you unconditionally. I foolishly thought me being a constant in his life, when everyone else left him, would help him, or cure him, or fix him. It won't, it can't and it doesn't. The disorder prevents them from connecting on any level of any depth. It doesn't make sense and it's not logical, but sadly it's the truth.

I've decided to still care about him, just in my own space. But for my health and healing, I can't be an active part of his life. I wish you the best and hope that you are able to be friends. I just share this because our situations are IDENTICAL in what you've written here. Surely they aren't the same people, so it's just a sympton of how the disorder effects a personal ability to handle personal relationships.

Yeah, I totally get what you're saying. I guess it's tough for me because I have such a logical way of thinking, so this disorder and the way people who have it think is just incomprehensible to me. And it's so hard because like you said about how it "prevents them from connecting on any level of depth," at the same time it at one time felt like the strongest connection I've ever had with someone. I sometimes get flashbacks of the way she'd look at me and while I don't feel as much pain about it anymore it still just felt so genuine. I guess I feel like if that wasn't a true connection I'll never really know what is... .

The fact that it seemed like we had a true connection is probably what keeps me feeling like there is something to salvage from this when there really probably isn't. It also makes me wonder if she actually has BPD since she is undiagnosed. But then I realize that she has just about every other BPD trait and there is definitely something going on, whether it's BPD or another cluster B personality disorder.

I'll probably do the same as you and still care about her, but leave it up to her as to whether she ever wants to connect again as friends on more than a superficial level (ie. actually talking about her life with me). The good news is I've distanced myself from the idea of ever having a romantic relationship with her again so the fact that she doesn't seem to want me to be a part of her life at the moment is more annoying/frustrating than painful.
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Tater tot
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2014, 11:07:55 AM »

I totally get where you are coming from. My ex was my high school sweetheart, and then we reconnected 14 plus years later, so there is a lot of sentimentality attached to him. As well my rational thinking "surely i'm really important to him, because he found me all these years later, wanted a second chance, never forgot me, etc.".  In the end, none of this was true, or rather it was true, in that moment when he did find me and did reconnect with me, until the devaluation started.

It was so hard for me to wrap my head around. And like you, I literally told him, I will never abandon you and I care about you unconditionally. I foolishly thought me being a constant in his life, when everyone else left him, would help him, or cure him, or fix him. It won't, it can't and it doesn't. The disorder prevents them from connecting on any level of any depth. It doesn't make sense and it's not logical, but sadly it's the truth.

I've decided to still care about him, just in my own space. But for my health and healing, I can't be an active part of his life. I wish you the best and hope that you are able to be friends. I just share this because our situations are IDENTICAL in what you've written here. Surely they aren't the same people, so it's just a sympton of how the disorder effects a personal ability to handle personal relationships.

Yeah, I totally get what you're saying. I guess it's tough for me because I have such a logical way of thinking, so this disorder and the way people who have it think is just incomprehensible to me. And it's so hard because like you said about how it "prevents them from connecting on any level of depth," at the same time it at one time felt like the strongest connection I've ever had with someone. I sometimes get flashbacks of the way she'd look at me and while I don't feel as much pain about it anymore it still just felt so genuine. I guess I feel like if that wasn't a true connection I'll never really know what is... .

The fact that it seemed like we had a true connection is probably what keeps me feeling like there is something to salvage from this when there really probably isn't. It also makes me wonder if she actually has BPD since she is undiagnosed. But then I realize that she has just about every other BPD trait and there is definitely something going on, whether it's BPD or another cluster B personality disorder.

I'll probably do the same as you and still care about her, but leave it up to her as to whether she ever wants to connect again as friends on more than a superficial level (ie. actually talking about her life with me). The good news is I've distanced myself from the idea of ever having a romantic relationship with her again so the fact that she doesn't seem to want me to be a part of her life at the moment is more annoying/frustrating than painful.

Cleverusername, this conversation makes me wonder if we are the same person:) It is so HARD to understand and comprehend how the BPD thinks and operates. Mine is also undiagonsised (to my knowledge) so I find myself at times thinking "am I making this more than it is" and then I read others stories and there are SO many similiarities I know it to be true. I often struggle to accept that he has this issue, because I want to think the best of him.

Your connection was real in that moment, so was mine. I own that, but I am also beginning to own that this after period when I'm no longer valued, is also real.

I'm sorry that it's so frustrating. But you are posting here, and asking questions, and getting support. Hopefully it's helpful to know that you are not alone in experiencing a lot of things you've experienced, and that a lot of this aftermath, isn't about you, it's about them. If it was about you, there wouldn't be so many like stories out there.

Trust you will have that connection again, with another person who is healthy enough to be the person you deserve.
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cleverusername
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2014, 11:57:18 AM »

-what is your real, brutally honest reason for wanting to be friends with her... .does it really have anything to do with her as a person, or is it about your unwillingness to completely detach?

I also feel that since after the breakup I have come to suspect she has BPD it kind of makes me more sympathetic. It's hard not to feel that you could be friends with someone when you liked them so much previously and realize that the things you didn't like about them were caused by a disorder. It's also tough feeling like I'm probably the only person that knows that she may have BPD and I'm the only one who can sympathize and maybe eventually help her or get her help.

^^this is the essence behind the 'fixer'/'savior' mentality that has led many of us to this place... .what you want isn't to sympathize with her pain, but for someone to sympathize with yours 

spend this time figuring out why you got involved with this person,

why you stayed,

and why you continue trying to forge a relationship with someone completely incapable of reciprocity, consistent honesty, or emotional stability... .

help YOU!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Hmm, I'm not sure I follow what you say about how what I want isn't to sympathize with her pain, but for someone to sympathize with mine. I feel as though most of my pain is behind me really. I've moved on from wanting to be with her romantically, I'm dating, and I'm back to feeling pretty good about myself.

As for why I got involved with this person... .to be honest, I saw the red flags from the start. The thing is, it was my first relationship and the way I went into it was with the mindset that it was exactly that, a way of gaining experience with dating and deep down I felt that I really didn't want for the first girl I dated to be the one I marry or anything anyway. I also saw the red flags early on and I remember telling my parents about some of them and how the relationship probably won't last long, but that I'd ride it out since I thought I was gaining valuable experience and did like her a lot when she was in a good mindset.

She also was capable of reciprocity (if anything it was me who was incapable of reciprocity) and consistent honesty (I never caught her in a lie at least), so it was mainly the emotional instability that was the issue. But it was a major issue... .I guess part of my thinking she's worth trying to forge a friendship with is that I feel that it's more the boyfriend who would have to deal with the emotional stuff, but who knows.
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cleverusername
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« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2014, 12:10:11 PM »

Cleverusername, this conversation makes me wonder if we are the same person:) It is so HARD to understand and comprehend how the BPD thinks and operates. Mine is also undiagonsised (to my knowledge) so I find myself at times thinking "am I making this more than it is" and then I read others stories and there are SO many similiarities I know it to be true. I often struggle to accept that he has this issue, because I want to think the best of him.

Your connection was real in that moment, so was mine. I own that, but I am also beginning to own that this after period when I'm no longer valued, is also real.

I'm sorry that it's so frustrating. But you are posting here, and asking questions, and getting support. Hopefully it's helpful to know that you are not alone in experiencing a lot of things you've experienced, and that a lot of this aftermath, isn't about you, it's about them. If it was about you, there wouldn't be so many like stories out there.

Trust you will have that connection again, with another person who is healthy enough to be the person you deserve.

I can totally relate with the thoughts of "am I making this more than what it is" since she is undiagnosed, and the fact that if she were diagnosed I'm pretty sure she would have told me since she told me about every other issue she has (depression, 4 suicide attempts, cutting, etc, which she told me about within the first week or so). When I think about that and how the stories I've read here have so many similarities it definitely reaffirms my belief that she has this issue.

And yup, posting here and getting support from great people like you has been invaluable. I do believe I will have that connection again with a healthy person, but I'm going to have a bit of a tough time at first believing someone is actually into me when I'm not being love bombed from day one, haha. I'll just have to think "this is how a healthy person begins a relationship" and how unhealthy it was for my ex to have told me the day after our first date that she couldn't believe someone as good as me existed... .(in my defense I did find that odd at the time)
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antelope
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« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2014, 01:33:16 PM »

(I really don't have many friends I feel that I can complain about the bad things in life with, haha). .

I feel as though most of my pain is behind me really.

these 2 statements are essentially contradictory

obviously, you don't have to mention any of this here, but what are these bad things that she is privy to that others are seemingly not?

'most' of your pain indicates there is 'some' left... .

a common characteristic us nons share entering these relationships is feeling misunderstood... .BPDs have a way of creating a feeling of intimacy and understanding usually unlike we have ever encountered before... .

you also mention: "As for why I got involved with this person... .to be honest, I saw the red flags from the start. The thing is, it was my first relationship and the way I went into it was with the mindset that it was exactly that, a way of gaining experience with dating and deep down I felt that I really didn't want for the first girl I dated to be the one I marry or anything anyway. I also saw the red flags early on and I remember telling my parents about some of them and how the relationship probably won't last long, but that I'd ride it out since I thought I was gaining valuable experience and did like her a lot when she was in a good mindset. "

^^I bolded that statement, b/c you never really answered it.  There was something about her that stood out to you, about a very unique way she made you feel... .that's why you picked her, stayed with her, and now continue to yearn a connection with her.

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cleverusername
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« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2014, 02:41:02 PM »

(I really don't have many friends I feel that I can complain about the bad things in life with, haha). .

I feel as though most of my pain is behind me really.

these 2 statements are essentially contradictory

obviously, you don't have to mention any of this here, but what are these bad things that she is privy to that others are seemingly not?

'most' of your pain indicates there is 'some' left... .

a common characteristic us nons share entering these relationships is feeling misunderstood... .BPDs have a way of creating a feeling of intimacy and understanding usually unlike we have ever encountered before... .

Well, what I meant with the first statement was more about the inevitable bad things that happen in life, and that most of the pain I have been dealing with recently pertaining to the breakup is behind me. But yeah, you're definitely right about BPDs having a way of creating a feeling of intimacy and understanding.

I think a huge part of that is how it's common that they tell a new person that they meet all about them (the good and the bad) at the beginning of the relationship. Within a week of meeting my ex she listed 8 things she considered to be baggage (including some pretty extreme stuff like past suicide attempts, cutting, etc) and got everything out in the open, which caused me to open up about my baggage (which was mostly just that I was a virgin and didn't really have a social life for most of college, trivial stuff compared to hers but things that I was self conscious about). Honestly it was nice to get everything out in the open like that and feel like I had nothing to hide (which I always felt like I was doing when dating other girls). I think a big part of why I got into a relationship with her was that she accepted the good and the bad about me right from the start.

you also mention: "As for why I got involved with this person... .to be honest, I saw the red flags from the start. The thing is, it was my first relationship and the way I went into it was with the mindset that it was exactly that, a way of gaining experience with dating and deep down I felt that I really didn't want for the first girl I dated to be the one I marry or anything anyway. I also saw the red flags early on and I remember telling my parents about some of them and how the relationship probably won't last long, but that I'd ride it out since I thought I was gaining valuable experience and did like her a lot when she was in a good mindset. "

^^I bolded that statement, b/c you never really answered it.  There was something about her that stood out to you, about a very unique way she made you feel... .that's why you picked her, stayed with her, and now continue to yearn a connection with her.

Like I explained above, I think a big part of it was her acceptance of my faults and getting all of that stuff out on the table at the beginning of the relationship. I was terribly self conscious about being a virgin and thought that I'd blow my chances with any girl by being horrible in bed. But once she knew it was like she fully gained my trust and a weight was lifted. I knew she'd be understanding if I sucked in bed for a little while and that she'd guide me along. Turned out I didn't need all that much guiding really, but it was great knowing that either way she accepted me for who I was and was willing to experience early stumbles with me, in regard to both sex and my first relationship of my life.
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cleverusername
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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2014, 10:33:25 AM »

So I'm done trying to contact my ex and ask how she is but on Friday I sent a funny Snapchat of myself in my Halloween costume to all of my friends and included her, just to be friendly. She didn't even view it, haha. I don't send a whole lot of Snapchats but this is the first time I've had someone just ignore one. I thought it was odd but didn't really care.

Then on Saturday night a friend posts of a picture of us in costume on Facebook and she likes it... .such strange behavior. I now know with 100% certainty that I will never understand this girl... .

I did find it kind of funny though that on a Saturday night I was out having a good time with friends while she was apparently on Facebook.
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