Am I being insecure, or justified?

[Lumpy_]

I have been with my uBPD partner for around 6 months now. Just over a year ago, they split from a very long-term relationship which devastated them emotionally and has had long-lasting effects on their psyche.

Despite apparently being so devastated and how much they loved this person, however, they did tell me that at some point during that relationship, they developed a serious crush on someone else, which, instead of closing doors on, they fed into - continued contacting, meeting up with etc. It made them question whether or not they could carry on the relationship with their partner of the time  

Recently mutual friends have gone through a similar thing and what scares me is that my partner does not recognise this as cheating - apparently in their head, it's perfectly OK to develop emotional attachments and fantasies about having relationships with others whilst with someone you apparently, 'love', as long as you're not sexually interacting with the third party!

It's baffling and what makes me more uncomfortable is that they are still very much in contact with this person and I feel that my partner makes up excuses to remain so, despite the other party's attempts to cut contact previously. They still buy the third party gifts for birthdays etc., as well. Now, I have met a lot of my partner's friends - most, if not all of whom my partner actually spends time with and this third party is not one of them. This person has never accompanied us on any of our numerous group outings etc. Doesn't it seem a little odd that someone buys gifts for someone they're not even that close to? Also, I might add, that the third party has never been interested on more than a friendship level.

Am I just being insecure and unreasonable or is it justified to be bugging me? I have expressed these concerns before and my partner was open to talking about it and reassured that I had nothing to worry about?   He is otherwise attentive, caring, anything you'd expect a partner to be, but part of me feels like I'm becoming a person that I don't recognise... .I was in a long-term relationship previously and never, ever had to worry about such issues. I am otherwise a confident woman, without insecurities, yet this is making me feel a little crazy... .

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[Mono No Aware]

Lumpy,

It is possible that your partner has the fixate-idealize tendency of BPD to a larger than normal degree.

I would say don't panic, but remain watchful.

If your partner follows classic BPD pattern, he'll get closer to the object of fixation and then dysregulate and paint them black. The you'll sit thought his rants about how awful that person is.

Keep us posted.

[MaybeSo]

hey developed a serious crush on someone else, which, instead of closing doors on, they fed into - continued contacting, meeting up with etc. It made them question whether or not they could carry on the relationship with their partner of the time huh huh

Recently mutual friends have gone through a similar thing and what scares me is that my partner does not recognise this as cheating - apparently in their head, it's perfectly OK to develop emotional attachments and fantasies about having relationships with others whilst with someone you apparently, 'love', as long as you're not sexually interacting with the third party!

Well, everyone is different... not everyone with BPD does this.  However... pwBPD  have a difficult time regulating emotions.  So they have intense ups and downs, and they feel strongly about a lot of things…and very quickly….the strong feelings change. Intimacy and attachment is the battlefield where symptoms get triggered the most.

So it makes sense that a pwBPD would regulate themselves by becoming enamored of others or entertaining crushes on others…even while in a r/s with someone else.  The established relationship is triggery for a pwBPD…intimacy means things get complicated, too close, too deep.…and everyday life of a relationship can be sort of boring as it calms down from the first blush of attraction. Intimacy is tuff stuff.  If you slumped into a depression or felt antsy with the engulfing closeness that comes with growing intimacy…then getting a crush on someone would feel really good, you get all the exciting superficial feelings that go with a crush…with none of the complex trigger feelings that go with deep intimacy. All of us can understand how good it feels to have a big crush on someone…it’s fun, it’s exciting, it’s superficial, it’s a distraction.  It is like a mini vacation to ‘feel good’ for a while. It’s relationship crack.

It can wreck havoc when they partner with a person who has a much more traditional approach to monogamy... .cause under that traditional way of partnering, most people expect emotional monogamy…not just physical.  So it seems odd to have your partner crushing on others… or heavily flirting with others…or becoming emotionally involved with others…when they are supposedly committed to a relationship with you.  But it happens.  

If that is the case, you can be left scratching your head…or feeling unsteady about trust and constantly feeling off balance.

It would appear your partner has been honest with you that this kind of superficial crushing on another…while in a relationship with someone else…isn’t a big deal to them.  I would take this at face value that they are telling you the truth.

It is up to you to decide if that outlook or perspective FITS well enough with your own personal needs, or not.

If it doesn’t, it’s best to figure out if you can find a way to get both of your needs met with this glaring difference…or if it’s best to take care of your own needs by moving out of this relationship…or doing whatever you have to do to take care of yourself.

Most often people feel in their gut there are serious differences that are going to make them miserable in the long run, but we don’t want to leave the r/s b/c that means we will feel miserable right now... .as there are obviously many other things about the r/s that are of value.  So we defer the immediate pain of ending a relationship that looks not well matched…in exchange for long term discomfort down the road.

It comes down to the choices we make.  But it’s always best to stay clear…that we make choices.  

In my case…I expressed early on some serious concern about similar differences in my relationship…and was ready to exit the relationship, sadly,  b/c I felt we were too different in this important way.  My partner then changed course…and was able to convince me that he saw the wisdom of my perspective after all…and wanted to live more like me, and be with me in a more traditional way…no more ‘crushes’.

Turns out he was mostly just fearful of losing me and was willing to say anything to avoid that…so he kind of forced ‘my perspective’ on himself as a way to placate me and avoid losing me.  Sometimes it appeared he really did feel okay about that choice, even said he was the happiest he has ever been…and other times he would suddenly feel much different and HATE IT and HATE ME.  Remember, pwBPD have very strong feelings that change quickly.  Also, pwBPD don’t often have a very strong sense of self…so they will mirror or adopt another person’s way of life if only temporarily, esp. if it means avoiding abandonment feelings.  

What a mess ensured between the two of us! He was up and down all the time about where he stood on this…which just made me feel more crazy, especially before I learned more about the disorder.  Bottom line, he has been regulating his mood by doing that kind of thing (crushes, flirting, emotionally connecting with women) for years and years. He would flip wildly back and forth from wanting to be more like me and having a more traditional relationship, and flipping the opposite way to feeling like he was being controlled and harboring anger and resentment and wanting to go back to his old way of being. Back and forth, back and forth.  What a total mess.

Painful, too.

Be careful. Eyes wide open.  Be very aware of your choices.

[waverider]

In his mind it means a different thing than it does to you. A pwBPD can compartmentalize and therefore justify it. One has nothing to do with the other. Will it stay this way or is it a stepping stone to crossover? Possible, but that is a forward projection. pwBPD live in the now so forward projections is not one their strong points. So yes it is innocent in his eyes, yet at the same time delusional to the potential risk.

Is this risk acceptable or justified? Doesn't really matter what is fair or not, it matters as to whether you can accept it and the inherent risk it presents. Some can accept it with the full knowledge of the reality, others simply can't.

You have no obligation to do either, you have a choice, and a right to protect yourself emotionally. So once you understand what it is, and what risk it brings, then only you can decide whether its for you or not.

One of the traps of a relationship with a pwBPD is we often end up questioning whats fair/justified rather than what is right for us. This leads us into putting up with toxic situations out of Fear, Obligation & Guilt (FOG)... The goal posts move, and we keep making more delusional judgement calls until our perception of right & wrong is distorted and we loose sight of our own values.

[Lumpy_]

Thank you all so much for your insight and taking the time to be informative. It has been reassuring as well as food for thought.

It is ironic because many years ago I was misdiagnosed as having BPD myself (I actually suffer from Bipolar Disorder), so I do understand some of the thought process and behaviours after years of research. The way in which they 'compartmentalize' as waverider puts it, is absolutely baffling. Being with someone with BPD has only completely reaffirmed that it was a misdiagnosis, in my case. The way they rationalise, triangulate, have a total inability to self-soothe and freak out over everything is utterly beyond me. Looks like I have some learning to do!

At the moment, I have no reason not to trust him. As I mentioned, the third party has never been interested beyond a platonic level, he reassured me it was nothing to worry about and he has certainly never physically cheated on a partner - he made it very clear that he detested people who did it and has sadly been a victim of it on a number of occasions. I guess it's just another BP quirk I'm going to have to familiarise myself with and plod on

[waverider]

The way they rationalise, triangulate, have a total inability to self-soothe and freak out over everything is utterly beyond me.

It is beyond them too. My partner is fully aware of this behavior, but instinct still makes her do it. So knowing and accepting the disorder only increases her sense of being worthless.

[CommittedToMyself]

Thank you for this post. It is very relevant to me. My gf has a lot of male fb/email friends and I feel at times that she behaves in a flirtatious/seductive/charming way toward them... .kisses on mags, being very effusive, inviting them to stay with us etc. I asserted some stronger boundaries at the beginning of the rs... .I.e any physical cheating I'm gone and I won't accept emotional affairs etc but I still feel that she goes close to the line sometimes... .I have become extremely insecure at times and have had a day like that today... .withdrawing from her because of lack of trust. Thus far there are no signs of a significant connection with anyone but I believe often that she could rationalize cheating if she was inclined. She lies about other things at times to other people so it is a very difficult area for me.

[waverider]

Thank you for this post. It is very relevant to me. My gf has a lot of male fb/email friends and I feel at times that she behaves in a flirtatious/seductive/charming way toward them... .kisses on mags, being very effusive, inviting them to stay with us etc. I asserted some stronger boundaries at the beginning of the rs... .I.e any physical cheating I'm gone and I won't accept emotional affairs etc but I still feel that she goes close to the line sometimes... .I have become extremely insecure at times and have had a day like that today... .withdrawing from her because of lack of trust. Thus far there are no signs of a significant connection with anyone but I believe often that she could rationalize cheating if she was inclined. She lies about other things at times to other people so it is a very difficult area for me.

Your boundaries here should be based on how she makes you feel rather than the technicalities about what she does. Otherwise you start to question about whether YOU are being reasonable or not, rather than whether she is. This results in your boundaries and values being slowly nudged into the twilight zone.

Seeking admiration elsewhere is a drug, and a little is never enough. It becomes normalized and takes the next "liberty" to keep up the buzz.

The problem with withdrawing as an action, she can then try to prove her desirability by flirting even more, eventually creating jealousy until you react. This can then become a "go to" action to control you.

Your boundary should be along the lines of "I wont be with some who deliberately acts in a way knowing it makes me feel insecure"

[Lumpy_]

Thank you for this post. It is very relevant to me. My gf has a lot of male fb/email friends and I feel at times that she behaves in a flirtatious/seductive/charming way toward them... .kisses on mags, being very effusive, inviting them to stay with us etc. I asserted some stronger boundaries at the beginning of the rs... .I.e any physical cheating I'm gone and I won't accept emotional affairs etc but I still feel that she goes close to the line sometimes... .I have become extremely insecure at times and have had a day like that today... .withdrawing from her because of lack of trust. Thus far there are no signs of a significant connection with anyone but I believe often that she could rationalize cheating if she was inclined. She lies about other things at times to other people so it is a very difficult area for me.

I'm sorry that you're experiencing this, too. It is by far the most difficult aspect of his personality that I struggle with - he has his mood swings, which are draining at times but at least they're never taken out on me, his jealousy/possessiveness does not extend to the point of snooping or controlling and his clingy nature is at times overwhelming, but manageable. In short, I understand enough about the way he rationalizes to deal with those things. This element however, definitely has the power to consume me if I don't stay on top of it. He does all the same things - is very flirtatious and charming with female friends, which I can just about overlook. Having a specific person however, even if she does not reciprocate, I find too disrespectful to keep living with.

The problem with withdrawing as an action, she can then try to prove her desirability by flirting even more, eventually creating jealousy until you react. This can then become a "go to" action to control you.

Your boundary should be along the lines of "I wont be with some who deliberately acts in a way knowing it makes me feel insecure"

This speaks volumes to me and has been proving very true. Since our initial conversation about the person in question and his reassurance that I, "had nothing to worry about", I have closed up and tried to give little to no reaction when he talks about her. The frequency at which this happens has now become a daily occurrence, deliberately surfing her social networking site in front of me, mentioning her in passing etc. He has sniffed out a vulnerability and my emotional withdrawal is definitely something he's playing on in order to get a jealous reaction out of me.

I like that boundary. He is away with work at the moment but if it continues when he returns, I think it's time to set it. Despite his reassurance and the fact that in truth, he has introduced me to her and has always physically met with her with me in tow, I just cannot accept that he continues to knowingly behave in a way that makes me feel insecure and disrespected, as you state, waverider.

I have discussed it at length with a family member who constantly witnesses it and is amazed that I let it go on ... .if he can't abide by it I think it will be time to jump ship. It's early days, after all. I guess I'm also still getting around why and how a person would claim that they love you, beg you to not leave them and constantly behave in a way that is ultimately going to get them left ... .

[waverider]

I'm also still getting around why and how a person would claim that they love you, beg you to not leave them and constantly behave in a way that is ultimately going to get them left ... .

This kind of self sabotage applies to many areas of BPD. Almost as if they are trying to self validate themselves as failures, just to prove to you they are.

[CommittedToMyself]

Thank you for the feedback to my earlier post on this thread. Helpful to hear other experiences. It's challenging. I am not going to continue with withdrawal... .just be cautious and observant. The last comment about self-sabotage reminds me of my gfs inner experience which I sometimes forget about, focussing more on her behaviour.  I am still learning about how, where and when to assert boundaries in an effective and not counterproductive way.

[waverider]

  I am still learning about how, where and when to assert boundaries in an effective and not counterproductive way.

Just keep in mind boundaries are about protecting yourself physically and emotionally, they are not a tool to try to contain them or teach them how to behave. They are purely a defensive tool.

They will be seen as controlling so you have to make sure they are not used in that way.

Essentially set your boundaries around those things that make you feel bad.

What hurts you the most? That is your first boundary. Typically that would be physical and emotional abuse if present