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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: didn't show up to take kids trick or treating  (Read 511 times)
momtara
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« on: October 31, 2014, 07:13:29 PM »

So for the first time ever, exH didn't show up when he said he would.  Weeks ago, he asked to take the kids trick or treating with me like we did last year.  He also wanted to take the kids to his place tonight instead of tomorrow like the regular schedule.  I said ok to trick or treating together just because it would be nice for the kids, but no on changing the parenting schedule.

He seemed excited about it and kept telling the kids he was going to come today.  Then today he kept texting and calling me to ask if I'd told day care he was picking up our older child.  I said yes several times.  He also called day care and they said I had told them.

I got a call from day care at the time I was supposed to meet my ex, saying no one came to pick our oldest child up.  So I got him.  That was two hours ago and still no word from ex on what happened.  (I imagine he'll make up a lie.)

He has seemed stressed since yesterday.  Maybe he was just too stressed to come tonight and knew it and wanted to use the day care thign as an excuse.  Or maybe he's mad at me for not engaging him much.

He's never just not showed up before.  I don't know what to make of it.  I told hte kids he probably got stuck in traffic.  It's ok but very unnerving, esp since he is suppoed to take the kids tomorrow for the weekend.  :)on't know what to do if this stuff continues.

I am engaging him much less than I used to, and not really talkign to him outside of kid stuff, so I guess he's probably unhappy about that, although until today he seemed semi ok.  

Now I don't even know if he's coming to take them tomorrow, and not sure if I should ask what happened today or just not engage him about it?
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david
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2014, 07:50:00 PM »

So you set up a boundary and started minimizing engagement. This is probably a counter move (extinction burst) to see how you react. DO NOT react. He may escalate but he is not putting the kids in danger so it is all about him right now. If you view him as a child he is having a temper tantrum of sorts.

I was at a friends house years ago. He had two sons at the time. We were eating dinner and the oldest son wanted something (I forget what it was) His mom and dad both said no. A little later, still at the dinner table, he chimed in again. He was told no. He then turned around and threatened his parents with, " Well if you don't let me then I won't eat my snack after dinner". His dad calmly said that was fine. I was ready to burst out laughing but contained myself. A few minutes passed and I could see his wheels were turning in his head. Finally he said , "I think we need to think about that snack some more".

I think at some point in the future you may start viewing these things the same way. It takes time to get there but remember he is not putting the kids in any danger. He may be disappointing them but he could have been doing that even if you were both together. That is between him and the kids. If he does it enough they will learn to accept it. They may get angry. They may have no relationship with him when they get older. That is between him and the kids. You need to be there to listen and validate. It takes practice and you will make mistakes along the way. I am sure that is not what you want for them but it is what it is. The better you handle it the better they will be. I've been dealing with my ex for over 7 years now and I never thought I could do what I am doing now. I have a great relationship with our two boys and my SS's (her kids from her first marriage) then I ever dreamed I would 7 years ago. Our two boys are doing very well even with all the disappointments with their mom.

Our S11 wanted to go with his friends trick or treating today. His mom did something months ago and all the parents that know her avoid her and by extension S11. He is with me this Halloween but I wasn't able to figure out how to "fix" it for him. I feel bad but he understands the why and the who. He talked to his mom and she told him he was lying. It's too long to give the details at this time. Yes, he was disappointed but we worked it out together. He thanked me for listening to him and finding another plan for the evening.
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momtara
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2014, 08:02:13 PM »

Thanks, David.  It is such a relief to have people like you talking to me about things like this.  You took so long to write you post.  That brings tears to my eyes.  That's very kind.  It was disappointing to me, too, not just the kids - he would have left our 4 year old at day care with no one picking him up!  He didn't even tell me he wasn't coming.  It's lucky they called me when he didn't come, but what was he thinking, not even telling me he wasn't coming to get our kid? 

I'm not going to react, and I don't even want to, considering it would just start a fight.

He just called a few minutes ago and talked to our 4 year old and asked if he liked trick or treating.  Didn't want to talk to the younger kid.  Seemed in good spirits.  Soo weird.

He's not putting the kids in danger, but the lying and deceit worry me anyway. 

Thanks so much for explaining all this -  no real way to get into his head and I guess at least having some idea of what could be going on, is helpful.  I see my shrink next week, but he doesn't know everything... .

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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2014, 12:03:15 PM »

Thanks, David.  It is such a relief to have people like you talking to me about things like this.  You took so long to write you post.  That brings tears to my eyes.  That's very kind.  It was disappointing to me, too, not just the kids - he would have left our 4 year old at day care with no one picking him up!  He didn't even tell me he wasn't coming.  It's lucky they called me when he didn't come, but what was he thinking, not even telling me he wasn't coming to get our kid? 

I'm not going to react, and I don't even want to, considering it would just start a fight.

He just called a few minutes ago and talked to our 4 year old and asked if he liked trick or treating.  Didn't want to talk to the younger kid.  Seemed in good spirits.  Soo weird.

He's not putting the kids in danger, but the lying and deceit worry me anyway. 

That is very weird. Sounds like he's dissociating.

Though I was only supposed to have my kids 4 hours maximum on Halloween night, she "let" me have them all night, even though I offered to only have them for 2-3 hours and said I'd drop them off early at her place. She did spend time with them during the day (at the library), but everyone I told said the same thing I thought, "she wants to go out and party."

When she brought the kids to church (on her Sunday--- she does this even though I never asked her to), we picked up D2 from Sunday school at the end of the service, and she cried ":)addy!" and leaped into my arms, running right past her mom, who said, "What about Mommy?" I handed D2 back to her, but she struggled to get out of her mom's arms for me to carry her. I felt a little bad for her mom, but there is a reason the kids are like this, and it has everything to do with her engagement and emotional availability, or lack thereof. I'm slowly learning not to "rescue" my Ex, even in my mind, and it's hard to separate these feelings out from that and what I think is best for the kids.
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
momtara
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2014, 01:24:26 PM »

Interesting that you should say all that and respond to this today.  I just got an email from him saying simply, "Are we meeting for dinner."  Wha... .?  We never made such a plan.  So he may well be dissacociating and I will have to figure out what to do about it.  I've avoided a psych eval thusfar and maybe the time is coming.  What keeps holding me back is, as David said, he hasn't done anything physically harmful to convince a court.  Still, the kids are young and he needs to get on the right medicine.
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david
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2014, 01:37:30 PM »

"learning not to "rescue" my ex" is a very good way to put it. I think most on this site have that same thing to learn. It comes with detachment and realizing you can't "rescue" (fix/help/quite a few ways to describe it) the other person. It's very easy to say but takes practice to get it right.

If you never made such a plan then you can simply ignore it. It may just be a way to engage. He knows you always try to "rescue" him and that is your weak spot that he uses to engage. You don't have to figure out what to do about it. He has to figure that out. He will either figure out there was no such plan if he really is disassociating or he will realize your weak spot is going away because you would normally engage in these kinds of situations. An extinction burst may occur and that would be a good clue that he is simply trying to engage. If you notice he is doing these things to/with you and not involving the kids.
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momtara
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2014, 02:16:17 PM »

Yeah, it is pretty accurate that he's trying to engage.  He has brought up a matter involving the kids for the last few days.  It's a matter that isn't his business, so finally last night I delicately explained that I'd be handling it.  Since he's lost that way to engage me, I guess this is a brand new one.  I am ignoring this one.  Should he start texting and calling, I guess I'll send a brief email to respond.

I do feel bad for him - I made life so easy and cozy for him when he was part of the family that it's really hard for him now.  He probably doesn't want to date, being broke and mentally ill, so he's probably pretty lonely except for his parents.  Of course, he didn't have to be as cruel as he was and he caused this problem.
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david
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2014, 02:51:36 PM »

I used to feel sorry for my ex too. After going to jail for two weeks on false allegations by ex I stopped feeling sorry. Feeling sorry puts my guard down and that is when she strikes. She is what she is and only she can change that.

What I have noticed in my situation is that ex has no idea how to take care of kids. She doesn't know how to listen and hear what they are trying to say. Because of that she can't validate there feelings, etc. She was married twice and the only kids that have anything to do with her have their own issues. The older boys that are doing fine (my SS's) are NC and LC with her. I have a great relationship with them. Our two boys are pretty much on the same path of NC or LC. I can see it as clear as a sunny day.

The only one that can change any of that is her and she needs to make that decision.

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livednlearned
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2014, 08:59:58 PM »

When you two were together/married and he experienced delusions or was in an extreme state (call it whatever: psychosis, disassociation, delusions), how did you respond to him?
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momtara
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2014, 12:17:10 PM »

I tiptoed.  Some of them were harmless delusions.  Like, he would claim I said something I didn't.  Sometimes I'd talk him out of it and eventually he'd calm down.  He hasn't had many extreme delusions, or if he has, he hasn't shared them.

But the delusions (perhaps) ended our marriage.  Things came to an end one weekend when he felt abandoned by his parents (who were away).  He started calling everyone and saying I hit our son, and he told the police that.  Also told them my dad threatened him.  Also thought I was going to take the kids away, so started doing weird things like putting our baby on the edge of the bed (which of course pushed me away).  To this day, I don't know if he was having emotional memories or he just lied, or somewhere in the middle.  But I got a TRO after that weekend.

We are supposed to start with a PC in two weeks - someone who is constrained, by our agreement, and isn't supposed to ask him about his medication or talk to any of his health professionals.  I agreed to that in order to have a PC.  Considering his odd behaviors over the last two months, I wonder if I have enough now to tell a judge we really need someone who's in contact with his professionals.  Or if I should start with this PC and be patient while she tries to figure it all out.  I am afraid if I start with her we may dilly dally along and I can't go to court because I have to discuss with her first. 

Ex did a new thing last night (tries something new every day).  Claimed he was at a pediatrics practice near where he lives and needed some info about the kids to sign them up.  I asked him (via text) for the name of the practice, but he didn't respond.  Now called me at work to get the same info.  I ignored the call.  I will email him and tell him I need the name of the practice etc. 
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david
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2014, 04:35:12 PM »

You can't bring up the meds or his docs to the pc but you can bring up the behaviors, things that he says, and things that he does. Have the emails too. You can state your concerns based on the behaviors. By doing so you will not be bringing up the meds or docs but he probably will to explain the behaviors. If he doesn't bring it up I don't think it is that important. The behaviors and your concerns based on the behaviors are important.
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2014, 09:03:43 AM »

I made life so easy and cozy for him when he was part of the family that it's really hard for him now. 

Your comment was like a lightbulb moment for me and is exactly spot on! I see this so much with my ex, I guess that is why at 39 he moved into his mom's basement with my kids. He cannot function or parent withouth others around. My DD is always saying things like... .Daddy never acted like that before or daddy always did this before, why doesn't he do those things now. I always tell her she has to ask dad about that but in my mind I know it is because I was the buffer that made him look like a good dad. Now he doesn't have that because his mommy and his live in GF don't do the things I used to do to make him look good.
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momtara
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2014, 12:08:06 PM »

My ex lived with his mom before he met me.  He has always had someone help take care of him. 

I remember that my mom unraveled mentally a lot after my dad left.  I guess he had been helping her hide her issues too.  Maybe not always consciously. 
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2014, 03:26:48 PM »

My ex lived with his mom before he met me.  He has always had someone help take care of him.  

I remember that my mom unraveled mentally a lot after my dad left.  I guess he had been helping her hide her issues too.  Maybe not always consciously.  

This for sure. My ex's mom and I were very close, I cam into their family when I was 18 she was like a mom to me and his dad was like my father. He waled me down the aisle for our wedding. A few years before my marriage feel apart, we decided to let his parents move in with us. That is when we found out that his dad was having an affair. This went on for years and they moved out shortly after moving in with us. His dad finally left the country with the other woman and died while living overseas. His mom hasn't been the same ever since that nightmare when he left and certainly after he died. I think her and ExH could comiserate and console each other which is why he moved in with her after he sold our marital home. Neither of them have ever gotten help to work through this stuff and he often tells my DD that she is crazy for going to see a T. He spins it to be a negative thing instead of a healthy one. He did the same to me when we were recycling, I think becasue my T was helping me see him and his behavior for what it was and helped me detach from teh dysfunction. I don't think he ever wants DD to get to that point so he makes her feel bad for going.  
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