Does it ever end

[mother in law]

Do the games (don't know what else to call them) ever end?  Ex dil always seems to have something up her sleeve to set someone else on edge.  It ranges from "I won't attend school event for gd if. ... .goes"  to buying extra tickets to school events and then not owning up till last minute so others cannot go but blaming everyone else for gd distress to sending us (the grandparents) fictitious texts about our son her ex to changing arrangements and times when it suits her but getting angry when gd is 5 minutes late when delivered back. I could go on and on but i am sure most of you know what i am getting at. She winds gd and son up alot.

So Tomorrow is ex dil birthday and gd who is 11 wants to give her a present (rightly so) but only money. We feel gd has been told to say this in order to get extra money out of her father. She is paid the required amount of maintenance gets government money and rental assistance plus pensioner rates when able.

Ex dil has never shown any inclination to work at anything home or outside and has always said "i just want to relax". She had also not told the truth to welfare about the amount of time she has with her daughter ie she had overstated to get more money.

My son had said "no way to birthday money children do not give money we will buy a present". Gd is upset ? Scared of mother's reaction. Don't know.

Sorry for long story but I am in utter disbelief that one person can cause so much chaos and it never goes away.  What is others experience does this ever end?  Any advice?  We have little contact with her and it depends upon her moods as to whether she will answer phone calls texts et.

[momtara]

I'd like to know this as well.  People say not to engage, and that minimizes it.  I'm working on that.  However, I can't imagine he'll ever just completely drop things, as long as we are coparenting.  He just finds new methods.

[mother in law]

I know what you mean momtara. I have only mentioned a little of what is said but there is alot more and unfortunately gd aged 11 gets caught in the middle of it all as ex dil uses her as a conduit. We are careful not to engage but it just gets ramped up all the time.  It is difficult to use the principles discussed on this site when the other person won't engage.  I am interested as to how others cope with this and how if ever they stop or reduce it. It is wearying on us as adults but horrible for a child.

[momtara]

My ex emailed me about some little issue with the kids.  I responded with something short.  He followed up.  Responded shortly again.  He came up with a new issue.  I didn't respond.  Has now texted and called about it.  Ergh.  I texted to say I'd email about it later.  Can't imagine this will ever end.

[ugghh]

Does it end?  Probably not.   Hopefully it decreases.

I cannot speak over the long term from personal experience as I moved out less that a year ago and only finalized divorce in July.  However even over the course of a year, I have seen a dramatic reduction from 10-20 texts per day, and perhaps 5-10 emails (I know these numbers because I had to produce copies to fight her false restraining order) to recently maybe 1 - 2 emails per week. 

Over the course of the last year I have blocked and unblocked her phone number a number of times.  Blocking means the text message never gets through and that she always gets voice mail when she calls, and even then the voice mail goes to a special separate section.  I have struggled at times with the blocking because at times I feel guilty and that she should be able to contact me in an emergency if the need arises due to still having one child who is not yet 18.   However without fail every time I have opened up the phone, the ex-uBPDw comes bulling through my boundaries with multiple calls/texts that go far beyond the basic communication regarding kids.  She begins her usual diatribe ranting about everything I did wrong, why the kids not speaking to her is my fault, etc.

I will usually respond to her one or two times with brief, factual communications regarding the kids or their activities.  If she continues to violate boundaries, back off to block land she goes.  I limit my communications to email only and per the advice of many in dealing with pwBPD, I keep them short and factual.  Even when she throws her bombs back, I do not reply to the crazy making stuff, I just stick to the facts.  You can take control of your boundaries, and that does help.  Remember, we left this pwBPD for a reason.

[ForeverDad]

Seems to me that setting rules and conditions for a gift ("I want only money" takes control away from the giver.  What if the giver wants to do a good deed, make artwork or do something else that has little or no monetary value?

Another factor is that the child is being pressured to change from doing what she might otherwise have had pleasure doing.  How personal a gift from a daughter to a mother is money?

Does it ever end?  Not really, not unless the other parent gets meaningful therapy and applies it.  In my case I faced a very entitled mother who quickly got custody and majority parenting time in the temporary order upon separation.  It didn't reduce when I walked out of the two year divorce with Shared Parenting and equal time.  It didn't reduce when I got custody.  It only reduced after I got majority parenting time also.  It took 8 years of baby step improvements in court to accomplish that.

[momtara]

To be fair, I have seen it decrease too.  End, maybe not, as we have to communicate with them regarding our kids.  Unless we get sole custody.  We can dream.

[mother in law]

Forever dad I did not think of the control aspect,  food for thought.  I was a bit depressed when I read that no it never ends unless the person with BPD gets some sort of meaningful treatment as I don't think that will happen in this case as she doesn't acknowledge she has a problem.

The scenario has changed even more since this last posting. Ex dil had now feeling entitled to what ever she wants has taken gd's savings $300+ from her account to buy herself a new computer.  No permission was asked and no acknowledgment given. It was found when gd checked her account.  This is in reality theft.  I have posted on coping with in laws etc as I don't get this behavior. She has a history of entitlement. I guess I don't get the lack of moral compass. Is it her or BPD?

[ForeverDad]

I guess I don't get the lack of moral compass. Is it her or BPD?

I don't think you can split the behaviors apart from her, as in Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde.  The way she rationalizes her perceptions and actions is not normal, doesn't follow common sense.  Take for example, a typical cycle of behavior going from 'I love you' to 'I hate you' and back again.  Is that two different people?  No, it's all aspects of a mental illness or condition, in this case, a cycle.

[mother in law]

I guess what I was saying is do all/alot of BPD's have this sense of entitlement ie everyone owes me and I can do what I like our is it just her?  I have basically asked this on another board but have not had many answers. 

[Nope]

Out of line entitlement is a very common feature of BPD. It just manifests itself in different ways depending on the person. One BPD will pull all the money out of their child's account to buy themseves something. Another will only allow their child's father to speak to them once a week but then call three times a day demanding to speak to the child on that father's limited parenting time.

Entitlement is especially prevalent when it comes to a BPD mom and her children as she does not see them as little people so much as she sees them as an extension of herself and therefore they exist to meet her needs.

I'm really sorry for your GD that this happened. And finding out when checking hwr account must have been really rough. She may not bring it up again for years, but that kind of shattering of trust is something she is likely to remember for the rest if her life.

[enlighten me]

Both my uBPD exs seemed to think the world owed them. They do what they want and if others get upset by their actions then its always someone elses fault.

When people say they have the emotional maturity of a child it kind of makes sense. A child does what they want and gets upset if yhey get caught doing something wrong. A child expects to be provided for and have all their needs mer. And so it is with pwBPD.

[ForeverDad]

I guess what I was saying is do all/a lot of BPD's have this sense of entitlement ie everyone owes me and I can do what I like or is it just her?  I have basically asked this on another board but have not had many answers.

We all are different and that in itself is a good thing, variety is the spice of life.  We all have a variety of personality traits, all of them to a greater or lesser level of influence and impact on our lives.  There are some 10 Personality Disorders (PDs) and they are called disorders or dysfunctions when the traits get unbalanced or to one extreme or the other.

So when we talk about Borderline, Narcissistic, Antisocial, Histrionic or Paranoid - the PDs most likely to have acting-out behaviors - these are categories of dysfunctional perceptions and behaviors beyond what is considered 'normal'.  Perhaps that is why it's hard to answer, "Is the extreme entitlement her or the disorder?"  We all have a measure of entitlement that is healthy, it is the extreme in either end of the spectrum that is the problem.  The PD is a description of a recognized set of perceptions, actions and behaviors, an aspect of who she is.  Does it really matter that you can split seawater into water and salt?  Seawater is what it is.

That's one reason why it is so hard for persons suffering with PDs to recover, it is difficult to change oneself, especially the core perceptions and beliefs.  And even more so considering the Denial and Blame Shifting.

This may not be the best answer or the most complete answer but it's a conclusion I've arrived at over time and it seems to work for me.

[mother in law]

Thanks forever dad I guess deep down I new all that and problem is perhaps mine cause I find that lack of moral compass difficult to deal with especially with an 11 year old witnessing it.  I will just have to stop trying to change the world! !