Hard Day Cont'd 4...

[MaroonLiquid]

This is a continuation of Hard Day part 3... .

Formflier, her dysregulation was Saturday when I was at a birthday party for my friend's daughter.  She texted me not minutes after me posting a picture and video.  I told her that I would see her in counseling at the end of our texting session and that the address was on the "family calendar" that we share.  She unsubscribed from it as soon as I said that.  What do I do if she doesn't show up?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

One emotion I'm really struggling with this morning is something I do that pushes her away for good.  Like when she told me we would never see them again on Saturday when she dysregulated.  I know it was emotion because she didn't get her way, but those are the things that are hard to deal with.

[MaroonLiquid]

My wife just texted me and told me her van broke down again from a radiator leak.  It was found last year and I believe we had that fixed at a different shop.  She thanked me for being a wonderful husband that took care of those things to leave her STRANDED!  Geez... .What do I do?  How do I respond?

[MaroonLiquid]

Here's how I responded... .

Oh wow.  I know that is extremely frustrating especially with the repair a couple of weks ago.  THe radiator was one of the things that we had fixed (replaced if I recall correctly) at that shop off of (street name) that our friend referred us to last year.  :)o you remember that?

She responds and asks if I knew where the receipt was and told her where it might be.  She said that the car was at the shop and she was at home tying to work, be mom, be dad, and financial backer.  Said thanks for the info and have a good day.

I said Ok have a good day.  She responded and said, "You suck."  I DID NOT RESPOND to that... .

[formflier]

 

I would think that expressing concern for the situation... .and asking if she needs a ride would be appropriate.

If the goal is to have a discussion in person... .then you solve a need and have a discussion.


Quick comment/question on the counseling exchange.

Why remind her about counseling?  Why remind her about where appointments are.  They have been discussed and agreed to... .I would say drop it.

My sense from watching this is that you "reminding" her is not being taken well... .she responds in ways that don't seem helpful to the r/s... .

I also think that bumping up the number of in person counseling sessions that you have... .to work through these issues... .is critical. 

I also think that slowing down the response cycle to the times she reaches out to you... .to think through principles... .and craft a message around that.

Thoughts?

[MaroonLiquid]

So after 20 minutes of not responding to the, "You suck." comment, my wife texted and apologized for saying that and asked forgiveness.  She hasn't done that in months, maybe on two fingers in a year!  I told her that I forgive her and that I can see she is spinning a lot of plates and she seems overwhelmed as anyone would.  I told her that if she needed me to give her and the kids a ride anywhere, let me know.  She said she has to be at a deal about an hour away for our daughter this evening and told her she could use my car.  She said she called the people that fixed out radiator and there is a lifetime warranty on parts (isn't she glad I remembered that   )her car could not be fixed until Thursday and I offered mine while I was at work during the day as long as she could pick me up.  She agreed.  Funny how things work out.  She refused to see me for 7 weeks, and told me Saturday that we would never see them again.  God has a sense of humor.  Now she has to see me everyday for three days.    

I slowed my response time down a lot today.  Took five to ten minutes to respond.  It really helped.  And I won't mention the counseling sessions or problems at all.  Just will see where this goes.

[formflier]

 

Make sure you go to the session you guys have scheduled.

Even if she tells you she won't be there... .go.

[MaroonLiquid]

Make sure you go to the session you guys have scheduled.

Even if she tells you she won't be there... .go.

What is the point if she doesn't show up? 

     So yesterday, I picked my wife and daughter up from their house.  When they first got in, my wife was acting rather awkward.  I said hi to her, but she was rather cold.  Really didn't expect anything different, but kept it lighthearted.  Instead of acknowledging the awkwardness, I talked to my daughter about her birthday and the trip they just went on.  She was animated and telling me all about the boy she met (I know she is 16, but God help me  , I have my hands full with all four of my daughters) and we talked about school.  When my wife realized I guess (or maybe got over it), she started joining in the conversations and by the time they dropped me off, we were cutting up and laughing.  Since she was at a school function till late, I told her to just pick me up this morning to take me to work.  We texted for a few minutes and kept it real nonchalant, no I love yous, just nonchalant.  She asked me where I wanted to meet her and I told her in the parking lot or she could come up to the apartment.  She said she would meet me in the parking lot.  I just said OK.  She started to text something else, but decided not to I guess and that was it (which is fine)... .

     This morning, my wife picked me up (alone) and she was again acting awkward and quiet.  I asked her about different things again keeping it nonchalant and light.  When we got to my office, I asked her if there was anything she needed and she said no.  I responded with OK, have a good day.  She said you too.  I could tell she wanted to say something else as she looked just looked forward.  I closed the door and walked into my building. 

     I really wonder what is going through her head.  I may not want to know, but just curious with all that she has said and all that has happened.  Not gloating in the fact that she has had to eat her words (it is funny though), but it is rather interesting how God avenges us sometimes.  Maybe that is why she is awkward and quiet knowing the things she has said to me and the way she has treated me for a while now. 

[formflier]

 

That you have kept your agreement.  That you have done "all you can" to work on your marriage.

Think about how often pwBPD "change their minds"... .what if she shows and you don't?

Base you actions not on what you "think" she will do... .base you actions on what you think is wise for your life... your r/s... .your family.  The wisdom comes from knowing about pwBPD... .your counselor... .this site.

This would be an example of you living your life the way you want to... .inviting her along... .and going on with it regardless of any BPD fueled "fits" that she may try to throw.

With regards to your other post... .it sounds like you had a couple good car rides and talks.

Maybe a comments on "pushing" for other things.  Can you explain the pick me up in parking lot and come up to apartment?  Was that via text? 

I'm just guessing here... .but I'm thinking that "extras" should be handled in person... .where you can focus on your body language... tone and all that.

In other words... .based on her past reactions to asking for "one more thing"... .or an "upgrade"... .I'm thinking that you should do that in person... .after lots of validation... .

[MaroonLiquid]

That you have kept your agreement.  That you have done "all you can" to work on your marriage.

Think about how often pwBPD "change their minds"... .what if she shows and you don't?

Base you actions not on what you "think" she will do... .base you actions on what you think is wise for your life... your r/s... .your family.  The wisdom comes from knowing about pwBPD... .your counselor... .this site.

This would be an example of you living your life the way you want to... .inviting her along... .and going on with it regardless of any BPD fueled "fits" that she may try to throw.

With regards to your other post... .it sounds like you had a couple good car rides and talks.

Maybe a comments on "pushing" for other things.  Can you explain the pick me up in parking lot and come up to apartment?  Was that via text?

I'm just guessing here... .but I'm thinking that "extras" should be handled in person... .where you can focus on your body language... tone and all that.

In other words... .based on her past reactions to asking for "one more thing"... .or an "upgrade"... .I'm thinking that you should do that in person... .after lots of validation... .

Yes, it was via text.  I think she was "testing" me, as if to see if "someone else" was there.  Gave her the option without coming out and saying, "There is no one else here."

I am trying to play the "extras" bit by ear.  Before this, I hadn't seen her in almost two months and with all that has taken place, not really sure where her head is at.  I won't chase her.  I almost feel like she needs to make the first move.  I don't mean physically, but rather from an emotional and mental standpoint.

[Grey Kitty]

Hey there... .this is looking better!

And I think your wife's coldness was a SERIOUS blessing in disguise!

It gave you a chance to do what really is the right thing to do:

Work on your r/s with D16 (and other kids). You are a parent to her. Your wife has kept you away from her.

Being a father to those kids is one of your core values. Remember they are kids, and did not choose to have their mother reject you. How much would you regret it if you realized that you gave up a chance to have time with these kids, and spent it in conflict with their mother instead?

I am not recommending you ignore or reject your wife. That would be a horrible idea.

I do want you to think about this: *IF* you knew you would never reconcile with your wife, what would you want to do with/for/about her kids?

[MaroonLiquid]

Hey there... .this is looking better!

And I think your wife's coldness was a SERIOUS blessing in disguise!

It gave you a chance to do what really is the right thing to do:

Work on your r/s with D16 (and other kids). You are a parent to her. Your wife has kept you away from her.

Being a father to those kids is one of your core values. Remember they are kids, and did not choose to have their mother reject you. How much would you regret it if you realized that you gave up a chance to have time with these kids, and spent it in conflict with their mother instead?

I am not recommending you ignore or reject your wife. That would be a horrible idea.

I do want you to think about this: *IF* you knew you would never reconcile with your wife, what would you want to do with/for/about her kids?

I was not trying to reject/ignore my wife (and I know you weren't implying I was), but instead let her deal with and process her own awkwardness... .I know it comes from what she created and the time apart... .I also wonder if it wasn't her trying to make me out to be the awkward one.  I won't try and figure out what she was thinking, but know this, I was happy that my D16 was there.  It broke the ice.

[Grey Kitty]

Indeed. You were doing the right thing.

I'm trying to show you that it was right in deeper ways for you than the immediate ones that you were probably thinking of when you made those choices.

[MaroonLiquid]

My wife dysregulated BIG TIME this evening. We had a REAL moment where we cried together, she said she was beginning to understand how deep her issues go.  I prayed for her regarding an upcoming surgery, we hugged and we agreed we would start again slowly.  She realized I had a new phone a few minutes later and then told me how selfish I was and how I always put myself first.  She drove my car to her house and then called me and said she was keeping my car and that I would need to find a new ride to work as she was putting her and her kids first.  She is on the title, so I'm hoping she comes off of this, but I can't believe this.  I can't believe this.  I noticed several times this evening, she has mentioned Borderline Personality Disorder and I never, ever brought it up.  I don't know what is going on with her, but I am at a loss right now.  Completely blown... .

[Grey Kitty]

First: hard boundary enforcement:

If she is on the title and you are on the title, she has no legal preference for holding the car without your permission. If I understand correctly, the two of you separated, and her car is in the shop. If the separation really was your car and her car (without changing titles), then don't cave on this sort of thing.

If it is logistically appropriate, consider asking a friend to give you a ride over, or getting a cab and picking up the car and driving it home.

I'll post more thoughts later... .as there are other things to consider besides this.

 Hang in there!

[MaroonLiquid]

The unfortunate thing is we are in a community property state.  She is on the title even though I have insurance in my name only on the vehicle.  She is refusing to give it back.  I'm going to call the police and see what they can do, if anything.

[MaroonLiquid]

There is no "legal separation" in the state I live in. 

[MaroonLiquid]

I got to work because of a friend this morning, but my wife is holding my vehicle hostage.  Last night she mentioned BPD three times without me EVER bringing it up.  I don't know what to do.  I'm trying to see if there is anything the cops can do for me, but if there is not, I am in trouble with no vehicle.

[formflier]

 

Holding laptop hostage... .holding vehicle hostage after you were very generous. 

Step 1... .figure out what will never happen again... .Never loan a piece of property that you actually need or expect to get back.

Step 2... .if you have a key... .I'm hoping you have extras.  Go over and pick up the car.  No heads up... .just do it.

Maybe let a couple other guys respond to this... .but... .its you car... and it's her car (I'm guessing)... .so she could do this back to you.

My gut says this is an attempt to "force" you to do something ... .file divorce... .something where she can turn around and claim victims status.

Again that is a guess... .

[MaroonLiquid]

I hear you on the "protecting my stuff bit.  Why do you think that about divorce?  I agree on the victim status bit.  She told me she wants me to fix her car and drive it.  I feel that for a moment last night she was lucid... .

[Grey Kitty]

This is a legal perspective, not a relationship/BPD perpsective:

The unfortunate thing is we are in a community property state.  She is on the title even though I have insurance in my name only on the vehicle.  She is refusing to give it back.  I'm going to call the police and see what they can do, if anything.

It is a community property state. She has no basis for keeping it away from you!

Or am I missing something?

[Grey Kitty]

You do have options: The insurance is in your name. Tell her that you will cancel the insurance and inform the police that she is driving a car without insurance if she does not return it.

[Grey Kitty]

And from a relationship dynamics point of view: She took advantage of you (you helped her by offering a car to her when hers was in the shop).

You are letting her get away with taking advantage of you financially again.

Is this what you want to do?

[MaroonLiquid]

Of course I don't want to.  I agree she took advantage of my kindness... .I could go get it if she doesn't lock it in her garage (which is probably what she is going to do if she is home) or I could follow her somewhere and drive off with it.  One problem is I'm not sure I have another key and the other problem is (if I find another one), we would both have a key (my keyring that she has has has my apartment gate key fob and other stuff on it) and I live in an apartment.  I'm afraid going to her house she would accuse me of something... .I'm trying to see if the police will follow me over there.  If not, I will have to follow her.

[MaroonLiquid]

I have a chance to get it back today while she is at a school function.  Here is the "victim" thing... .Just figured it out.  That leaves her and the kids stranded.  Guess who gets to play victim... .Yep... .And I look like the bad guy... .:'(  I figure she has lied to the kids and told them I let her use it... .I have the text messages to prove otherwise... .

[formflier]

 

Dude... .this sucks... .

You gave her car keys... .and apartment keys... .and did this after she already kept your laptop... .

OK... .NEVER... .ever... .ever... .ever... .trust her again with "stuff". 

Make sure you think about anything you are handing over to her... .even for a minute... .what is the worst thing that could happen if she keeps it.

Here is the thing... .a r/s can't happen if there is no compromise.  You were nice... .she took advantage... again... .and imposed her compromise.

Don't take the car and leave them stranded... two wrongs don't make a right... .

If its locked in garage... .that doesn't work either.

What do you think would happen if you show up at her house and just ask to "borrow it"... .you need to go somewhere.

You let her borrow "the family car (in her mind)"... .why wouldn't she let you borrow it...  

Remember... .make sure and go to counseling... .

Wow... .what a situation... .

Can you repeat again the story of how she determined that she would keep the car?  Did you clearly say NO... that doesn't work for me?  Not saying to say that now if you haven't... .

I think you need to sign up for "prepaid legal"... or one of those services where you can call and speak to a lawyer.  I have something like that... .about $20 per month.  Good to chat things over sometimes.

Anyway... .before you pull any "stunts" to get the car back... you need to know EXACTLY where you stand legally on this.

No guessing... .don't take the police word for it.  GET A LAWYER TO ADVISE YOU ON WHOSE CAR IT IS.

[Grey Kitty]

Very good advice to talk to a lawyer.

There should be nothing wrong (from a legal point of view) with telling her in no uncertain terms that it is your car, and you expect it back immediately.

[waverider]

The laptop issue can come and go, the car issue can come and go, but the behavioral pattern stays.

Can you live with the constant threat of this type behavior. It is callous power playing.

If you are going to tackle her over this and make boundaries, it cant be about the items, it must be about you feeling like you are being power played.

You are made to feel like she can't be trusted with any agreement. This is the sort of nonsense that goes on with couples who are splitting, ridiculous petty stuff to get one over the other.

How are you going to deal with this "go too" method of acting she has? What is your deal breaker bottom line? More importantly what does she perceive it to be? Or does she believe she can do anything and still have your support?

I think maybe you need to direct these questions to your individual T, if you have one. How are you going to define where you have had enough? Otherwise without limits, variations of this theme will go one indefinately

[formflier]

  it must be about you feeling like you are being power played.

Interesting... .I hadn't thought about it that way... .but I totally agree.

I also agree that it is time to take a hard look at defining boundaries for yourself (talking to Maroon here)... .just what are you going to put up with.

Not suggesting what that is... .what the boundary is...

Is it possible to have several intensive IC session fairly close together to kick start this self examination time?

[MaroonLiquid]

  it must be about you feeling like you are being power played.

Interesting... .I hadn't thought about it that way... .but I totally agree.

I also agree that it is time to take a hard look at defining boundaries for yourself (talking to Maroon here)... .just what are you going to put up with.

Not suggesting what that is... .what the boundary is...

Is it possible to have several intensive IC session fairly close together to kick start this self examination time?

I will be setting a boundary today after I take necessary action.  Do not want to talk about it at the moment.  I will have more later.  I love her but I've had enough (doesn't necessarily mean divorce, but she crossed a line with me with taking my vehicle).  I'm done being power played and I'm done with the games.  I'm stopping her victimization of me today.  It's time she get help.

[Grey Kitty]

I will be setting a boundary today after I take necessary action.  Do not want to talk about it at the moment.  I will have more later.  I love her but I've had enough (doesn't necessarily mean divorce, but she crossed a line with me with taking my vehicle).  I'm done being power played and I'm done with the games.  I'm stopping her victimization of me today.

 AWESOME work for you!

That is taking charge of what you can do, and living your life according to your values!

It's time she get help.

Except this. That's up to her. You have no control over it. Maybe she will get help. Maybe she will wallow in her own ___ and blame you for everything.

Let that one go, for your own sanity!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

And... please... make sure you have had someone locally help you think through you actions... .and what the 2nd and 3rd order consequences might be of those actions.

Again... .lawyers are most helpful before you do things... .rather than after.

[MaroonLiquid]

Update:  I went to counseling on Friday and my wife did not show up.  The lady was really sweet, but said that I have gone through hell and that if I don't want to keep going through this, I should file for divorce.  Not what I was wanting to hear.  AT ALL!  I was devastated. 

     So yesterday, I texted my wife and her sister (group text) and went over the situation in a very calm, unaccusatory but truthful manner.  I basically said that just like keeping my laptop, she has now kept my car.  She told me she could drop her car (mini van) over to me and I could drive it.  Now, she couldn't drive it in the first place because "the radiator was out".  I asked her if the tags on the vehicle were current.  She responded by asking, "Are your wife and step kids still on your insurance?"  My response was, "Wife, as I told you many times prior... .if you are willing to actually work on fixing our marriage and reconciling, I don't have any problem keeping things the way they have been.  At the same time, I won't be used while you continue to live as if you are single."  I did this as a way to let her family know what is really going on and try and dispel any rumors that she may have told them. 

     I went and rented a vehicle for a week yesterday and at the same time, she dropped the van off at my apartment and left the keys on the door and texted me that it was there.  When I got there, I noticed both tags were expired since June and July.  She has been on four trips since then!  She shared a blog post link on Facebook this morning titled, "8 Things to Remember When Everything Goes Wrong".  I am currently writing a "Letting Go" email to her that says I am done playing games and that she is welcome to file for divorce and that she should do it quickly.  I have only asked for a few things: 3 of minimal value, but one of significant sentimental value to us and 1 of significant value, my laptop.  Everything else, I could care less about.  I am struggling mightily with sending it however.  I really feel my wife was lucid when discussing how to move forward in our relationship, fix things and show the kids "how we won't give up" before she dysregulated over my phone and kept my car.  She were loving, crying, and we held and kissed each other.  I am so confused right now.  Most people except for a select few tell me she plotted, planned and deceived me just to get my car and that was her intention the whole time.  I don't totally believe that.  But I'm not so sure either.  I know my boundary has been crossed, but I still want my wife back... .Holding her, kissing her and loving her the other night reminded me of things and reminded me of how beautiful things can be.  One moment I'm heartbroken, the next I'm hopeful and the next I feel hopeless.  God is carrying me through this every moment right now.  Thanks for listening.  I really appreciate this board as I know you guys truly understand.   :'(

[Grey Kitty]

  Oh man, tough day for you.

I'm going to caution you against sending the email to her that you are drafting.

I think that writing it will be a very helpful exercise for you. I still encourage that.

I'm in a similar situation to you: My wife is behaving in a way I find unacceptable. We are physically separated already. She is acting pretty determined to continue behaving in this way.

If I ask or demand better behavior from my wife, I'm handing the power to her. And she has a loong track record of abusing this power.

If I decide that I've had enough of this and I'm ending it, I'm making my own choice and going forward with my life.

And more importantly... .and this one is looking you STRAIGHT IN THE EYES... .

If I'm done with the r/s as it is, I've told her many many times what my issue is. She's not deaf. She's not stupid. She's already heard it. She doesn't need to hear it again.

All I need to tell her is that I'm done. And (in my case) I'm ready to start dividing up our belongings.

That email only needs one sentence.

Once I am DONE with it, I can't afford to worry about how she feels about it, or how she will react.

And if, perhaps, my decision to end it convinces her that I am serious, and that she is willing to change things to get me back, she can come to me. My begging, pleading, crying, screaming, friendly requests, or logical explanations or anything else hasn't worked yet, and there isn't much reason to expect something different this time. And then I can re-consider. But I've got to let go of that hope before I can cut things off.

What I guarantee will NOT work well for you is to simultaneously negotiate reconciling your marriage AND dividing up any remaining joint assets, liabilities, and access to children at the same time. Pick one for discussions with her, not both. (That would be the case of letting her bring the fight down to her level and then beating you with experience!)

[MaroonLiquid]

What I guarantee will NOT work well for you is to simultaneously negotiate reconciling your marriage AND dividing up any remaining joint assets, liabilities, and access to children at the same time. Pick one for discussions with her, not both. (That would be the case of letting her bring the fight down to her level and then beating you with experience!)

What do you mean by this?  I am letting her know that I am done and letting her go as this is the decision it seems she wants.  I am telling her what values she crossed, what my line was and what belongings I want to move on. 

[KateCat]

Are you sure, MaroonLiquid? Didn't you write that you were devastated when the counselor suggested (on Friday) that you might want to file for divorce?

[MaroonLiquid]

Are you sure, MaroonLiquid? Didn't you write that you were devastated when the counselor suggested (on Friday) that you might want to file for divorce?

Yes, I did and was and don't want it still.  In my letter, I'm telling her that I'm letting her go and she needs to file as soon as possible as her actions speak louder than words.  Not saying I'll send it, but writing one out.  Why would I not want and offer to give her that when her actions say thats what she wants.  Also, she needs to know that I'm done with her behavior.

[KateCat]

I think the counselor chose her words carefully when she suggested you file for divorce if and when you are ready.

Do you think your wife actually will file for divorce? I could be wrong, but I'm not getting the feeling that she will.

[MaroonLiquid]

I think the counselor chose her words carefully when she suggested you file for divorce if and when you are ready.

Do you think your wife actually will file for divorce? I could be wrong, but I'm not getting the feeling that she will.

You are probably right.  My family thinks she won't either.  I guess a part of me hope it scares her into getting help when the fact is I wouldn't even discuss it before.  :)ivorce scares me honestly because I love her so much.  Also, I hate that she would again be the victim.  She knows how I feel about divorce.

[KateCat]

It's clear you don't want divorce.

The sad paradox that can be seen again and again on the Staying board is that partners in your position very often do have to be ready to let go of the relationship before they can find ways to make it better. But it seems they have to be truly ready, not just making strategic moves, like telling the other party to file for divorce. (I'm thinking a good counselor understands this paradox well.)

Your wife has been treating you exceptionally badly. It's really a shame, for both of you and all of the kids. 

[MaroonLiquid]

I want to let go... .Filing seems so final... .

[KateCat]

Did you say you are in one of the U.S. states that doesn't recognize "separation" status for couples? If you were in my state you'd have the option to draw up a separation agreement that would preserve insurance benefits for all members of the family but let you make some actual rules of separation.

I can't see how you can move forward when there are no rules and your wife is acting so irrationally. Unless you both sit down with a counselor and agree on some rules for a "therapeutic separation."

ADDED: Just want to add that you've been doing excellent work these past few weeks. Hope you don't ever doubt that.

[MaroonLiquid]

Yes, I am in a state that doesn't recognize that.  I am trying to make my relationship better, but realize she has free will and continues to make choices that hinder that.  I wish she would choose differently.

[Grey Kitty]

What I guarantee will NOT work well for you is to simultaneously negotiate reconciling your marriage AND dividing up any remaining joint assets, liabilities, and access to children at the same time. Pick one for discussions with her, not both. (That would be the case of letting her bring the fight down to her level and then beating you with experience!)

What do you mean by this?  I am letting her know that I am done and letting her go as this is the decision it seems she wants.  I am telling her what values she crossed, what my line was and what belongings I want to move on. 

I'm gonna be a hard-a$$ here.

No, you are NOT letting her know that you are done. Letting her know you are done is telling her something, not asking her something. It might look like:

• Serving her divorce papers or having her served.



• Telling her that you don't want her back.

If there is a request in the email... .if there is an action you are telling her to take or asking her to take, you aren't done with her. You are still involved with her. You almost sound afraid to get a divorce from her without her permission!

... .Don't ask for a divorce because you want her to come back to you!

[formflier]

 

You need to have a long meeting with a lawyer. 

Questions:

Ask him what it looks like if you decide to stay married... .but need to protect yourself from her "tactics" and "decisions" where she seems to be pushing you to file... .

No idea what you will hear... .but you need to know.

If you don't want a divorce... .don't get one... .that is your choice. 

Once you know your legal options... .you'll know... .and the advice from this board may or many not change.  We'll have to see.

Take a deep breath... .and go get legal answers... .then... .make decisions.

My hope for you... .is that if you do end up deciding to file... .you do it from a position of choice... .not "throwing your hands up"... .or in desperation... .

Hang in there! 

 

[formflier]

 

Grey Kitty is right.

Don't ever... .ever... .tell her something like done... .unless you really are.

If you get to the point where you are done... .sit on that.   Don't tell her.

Make sure you still feel that way after a week ... .or two...

Remember... .make wise choices... .wisdom is usually not hasty.

[KateCat]

You need to have a long meeting with a lawyer. 

Questions:

Ask him what it looks like if you decide to stay married... .but need to protect yourself from her "tactics" and "decisions" where she seems to be pushing you to file... .

No idea what you will hear... .but you need to know.

This is a very creative idea. A good attorney will take this question seriously, I believe.

[MaroonLiquid]

You need to have a long meeting with a lawyer.  

Questions:

Ask him what it looks like if you decide to stay married... .but need to protect yourself from her "tactics" and "decisions" where she seems to be pushing you to file... .

No idea what you will hear... .but you need to know.

This is a very creative idea. A good attorney will take this question seriously, I believe.

What do you mean they will take it seriously?

[MaroonLiquid]

One more thing, why does it seem that my wife is getting worse instead of better?  I would have figured with the changes I have made, she would have made some herself (started to turn from these destructive bahaviors at least) by now.  That is the disheartening thing for me.

[formflier]

 

Take it seriously... .I think that means attorneys understand this is a real problem... and a real position that some want to take.

Yes... I can see it is a bummer that she is not getting better... .it could be a long "extinction burst".

It could continue to get worse.  We won't know.

All you can do... is what you can do... .do the best you can!

 

[MaroonLiquid]

Take it seriously... .I think that means attorneys understand this is a real problem... and a real position that some want to take.

Yes... I can see it is a bummer that she is not getting better... .it could be a long "extinction burst".

It could continue to get worse.  We won't know.

All you can do... is what you can do... .do the best you can!

 

Hmmm.  Long extinction burst.  That is an interesting take.  Can you explain that in this instance?

[formflier]

Hmmm.  Long extinction burst.  That is an interesting take.  Can you explain that in this instance?

Not really... .it's just my best guess... .on the positive side... .to try to make this "fit" with BPD traits.

So... .your best case... .is that it's something like that and she eventually "snaps out of it".

Worst case... .she is just done with you... .and doesn't have the guts to do it herself... .

Whatever other options are in between.

Please don't make your decisions based on what you "think" she is... .or is doing.  Visit the lawyer... .get the facts... .post them here...

And... .take some long hard looks in the mirror... .talk to your IC. 

Make this about you... .not her.

[KateCat]

Yes, that is what I meant by an attorney (and I think you need an experienced attorney with a concentration in family law) will take seriously the idea that a person may need specific legal protections from a spouse.

If your wife is not used to the idea of hearing you say "no" this really could be a "long extinction burst." Kind of like a long tantrum.

But whatever it is, you do need to move to protect yourself.

[MaroonLiquid]

Yes, that is what I meant by an attorney (and I think you need an experienced attorney with a concentration in family law) will take seriously the idea that a person may need specific legal protections from a spouse.

If your wife is not used to the idea of hearing you say "no" this really could be a "long extinction burst." Kind of like a long tantrum.

But whatever it is, you do need to move to protect yourself.

The long tantrum makes sense considering that before our separation that I didn't say no hardly at all for fear of the anger/push back episode.  Especially now that I have said I won't be used in certain situations (insurance which open enrollment started today and she doesn't know that).  I do need to protect myself though and will make sure to ask about that.

[waverider]

One more thing, why does it seem that my wife is getting worse instead of better?  I would have figured with the changes I have made, she would have made some herself (started to turn from these destructive bahaviors at least) by now.  That is the disheartening thing for me.

You have changed the status quo, her established coping mechanisms of projection and blaming are being compromised. This creates a panic and desperate behavior.

If you want to drive your own future you need to put your hands on the wheel, no point sitting in the back giving your wife suggestions as to where you would like to go. She will still go where she feels impelled to go. At the moment she is completely lost.

As the others have said if you want out you will have to hog the wheel or she will drive you into the ditch. There is no amicably steering your way out of a BPD relationship.

If you need more space to think you need to maintain minimum contact separation. Whatever your final choice is will take all your strength and confidence. If this is your first attempts at standing form it wil take a long time for her to accept this. In the meantime dont attempt to fix anything as it is all too unstable.

As Formflier says if you think you want to leave, do not mention this until it is a final conclusion and the wheels are irreversibly in order. You can't retract anything you say once you have said it.

[MaroonLiquid]

One more thing, why does it seem that my wife is getting worse instead of better?  I would have figured with the changes I have made, she would have made some herself (started to turn from these destructive bahaviors at least) by now.  That is the disheartening thing for me.

You have changed the status quo, her established coping mechanisms of projection and blaming are being compromised. This creates a panic and desperate behavior.

If you want to drive your own future you need to put your hands on the wheel, no point sitting in the back giving your wife suggestions as to where you would like to go. She will still go where she feels impelled to go. At the moment she is completely lost.

As the others have said if you want out you will have to hog the wheel or she will drive you into the ditch. There is no amicably steering your way out of a BPD relationship.

If you need more space to think you need to maintain minimum contact separation. Whatever your final choice is will take all your strength and confidence. If this is your first attempts at standing form it wil take a long time for her to accept this. In the meantime dont attempt to fix anything as it is all too unstable.

As Formflier says if you think you want to leave, do not mention this until it is a final conclusion and the wheels are irreversibly in order. You can't retract anything you say once you have said it.

I don't want a divorce.  I know I can't control what she does, but I do want her to start showing signs of making better choices and getting better.  Right now, I know I want it more than she does.  The other night, it was hard seeing her lucid even if it was for 10-15 minutes, but I had my wife back, even momentarily.  I want to continue to believe the best and that she'll change, but I know that 6 months down the road I don't want to still be in limbo.  Either she starts to make changes for "us" or I have to move on with my life at some point.

[waverider]

Not all choices we make are what we want or would prefer.

Often it is because it is the best path forward.

It is often suggested you put a time frame on these things, so that you are not in perpetual limbo.

You cant live your life by default. A time frame allows this particular phase to run its course, whatever that may be.

[MaroonLiquid]

Not all choices we make are what we want or would prefer.

Often it is because it is the best path forward.

It is often suggested you put a time frame on these things, so that you are not in perpetual limbo.

You cant live your life by default. A time frame allows this particular phase to run its course, whatever that may be.

It sucks because I think that the "extinction burst" tantrum has a lot of weight in this instance.  My issue now is my open enrollment for insurance.  I told her that if we were working on our marriage (in earnest), I would keep her on, but that ends in the 23rd.  Thinking about keeping her on and not telling her.  This is a tough one.

[Rapt Reader]

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