Hard Day Cont'd 4...

[Grey Kitty]

I will be setting a boundary today after I take necessary action.  Do not want to talk about it at the moment.  I will have more later.  I love her but I've had enough (doesn't necessarily mean divorce, but she crossed a line with me with taking my vehicle).  I'm done being power played and I'm done with the games.  I'm stopping her victimization of me today.

 AWESOME work for you!

That is taking charge of what you can do, and living your life according to your values!

It's time she get help.

Except this. That's up to her. You have no control over it. Maybe she will get help. Maybe she will wallow in her own ___ and blame you for everything.

Let that one go, for your own sanity!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

And... please... make sure you have had someone locally help you think through you actions... .and what the 2nd and 3rd order consequences might be of those actions.

Again... .lawyers are most helpful before you do things... .rather than after.

[MaroonLiquid]

Update:  I went to counseling on Friday and my wife did not show up.  The lady was really sweet, but said that I have gone through hell and that if I don't want to keep going through this, I should file for divorce.  Not what I was wanting to hear.  AT ALL!  I was devastated. 

     So yesterday, I texted my wife and her sister (group text) and went over the situation in a very calm, unaccusatory but truthful manner.  I basically said that just like keeping my laptop, she has now kept my car.  She told me she could drop her car (mini van) over to me and I could drive it.  Now, she couldn't drive it in the first place because "the radiator was out".  I asked her if the tags on the vehicle were current.  She responded by asking, "Are your wife and step kids still on your insurance?"  My response was, "Wife, as I told you many times prior... .if you are willing to actually work on fixing our marriage and reconciling, I don't have any problem keeping things the way they have been.  At the same time, I won't be used while you continue to live as if you are single."  I did this as a way to let her family know what is really going on and try and dispel any rumors that she may have told them. 

     I went and rented a vehicle for a week yesterday and at the same time, she dropped the van off at my apartment and left the keys on the door and texted me that it was there.  When I got there, I noticed both tags were expired since June and July.  She has been on four trips since then!  She shared a blog post link on Facebook this morning titled, "8 Things to Remember When Everything Goes Wrong".  I am currently writing a "Letting Go" email to her that says I am done playing games and that she is welcome to file for divorce and that she should do it quickly.  I have only asked for a few things: 3 of minimal value, but one of significant sentimental value to us and 1 of significant value, my laptop.  Everything else, I could care less about.  I am struggling mightily with sending it however.  I really feel my wife was lucid when discussing how to move forward in our relationship, fix things and show the kids "how we won't give up" before she dysregulated over my phone and kept my car.  She were loving, crying, and we held and kissed each other.  I am so confused right now.  Most people except for a select few tell me she plotted, planned and deceived me just to get my car and that was her intention the whole time.  I don't totally believe that.  But I'm not so sure either.  I know my boundary has been crossed, but I still want my wife back... .Holding her, kissing her and loving her the other night reminded me of things and reminded me of how beautiful things can be.  One moment I'm heartbroken, the next I'm hopeful and the next I feel hopeless.  God is carrying me through this every moment right now.  Thanks for listening.  I really appreciate this board as I know you guys truly understand.   :'(

[Grey Kitty]

  Oh man, tough day for you.

I'm going to caution you against sending the email to her that you are drafting.

I think that writing it will be a very helpful exercise for you. I still encourage that.

I'm in a similar situation to you: My wife is behaving in a way I find unacceptable. We are physically separated already. She is acting pretty determined to continue behaving in this way.

If I ask or demand better behavior from my wife, I'm handing the power to her. And she has a loong track record of abusing this power.

If I decide that I've had enough of this and I'm ending it, I'm making my own choice and going forward with my life.

And more importantly... .and this one is looking you STRAIGHT IN THE EYES... .

If I'm done with the r/s as it is, I've told her many many times what my issue is. She's not deaf. She's not stupid. She's already heard it. She doesn't need to hear it again.

All I need to tell her is that I'm done. And (in my case) I'm ready to start dividing up our belongings.

That email only needs one sentence.

Once I am DONE with it, I can't afford to worry about how she feels about it, or how she will react.

And if, perhaps, my decision to end it convinces her that I am serious, and that she is willing to change things to get me back, she can come to me. My begging, pleading, crying, screaming, friendly requests, or logical explanations or anything else hasn't worked yet, and there isn't much reason to expect something different this time. And then I can re-consider. But I've got to let go of that hope before I can cut things off.

What I guarantee will NOT work well for you is to simultaneously negotiate reconciling your marriage AND dividing up any remaining joint assets, liabilities, and access to children at the same time. Pick one for discussions with her, not both. (That would be the case of letting her bring the fight down to her level and then beating you with experience!)

[MaroonLiquid]

What I guarantee will NOT work well for you is to simultaneously negotiate reconciling your marriage AND dividing up any remaining joint assets, liabilities, and access to children at the same time. Pick one for discussions with her, not both. (That would be the case of letting her bring the fight down to her level and then beating you with experience!)

What do you mean by this?  I am letting her know that I am done and letting her go as this is the decision it seems she wants.  I am telling her what values she crossed, what my line was and what belongings I want to move on. 

[KateCat]

Are you sure, MaroonLiquid? Didn't you write that you were devastated when the counselor suggested (on Friday) that you might want to file for divorce?

[MaroonLiquid]

Are you sure, MaroonLiquid? Didn't you write that you were devastated when the counselor suggested (on Friday) that you might want to file for divorce?

Yes, I did and was and don't want it still.  In my letter, I'm telling her that I'm letting her go and she needs to file as soon as possible as her actions speak louder than words.  Not saying I'll send it, but writing one out.  Why would I not want and offer to give her that when her actions say thats what she wants.  Also, she needs to know that I'm done with her behavior.

[KateCat]

I think the counselor chose her words carefully when she suggested you file for divorce if and when you are ready.

Do you think your wife actually will file for divorce? I could be wrong, but I'm not getting the feeling that she will.

[MaroonLiquid]

I think the counselor chose her words carefully when she suggested you file for divorce if and when you are ready.

Do you think your wife actually will file for divorce? I could be wrong, but I'm not getting the feeling that she will.

You are probably right.  My family thinks she won't either.  I guess a part of me hope it scares her into getting help when the fact is I wouldn't even discuss it before.  :)ivorce scares me honestly because I love her so much.  Also, I hate that she would again be the victim.  She knows how I feel about divorce.

[KateCat]

It's clear you don't want divorce.

The sad paradox that can be seen again and again on the Staying board is that partners in your position very often do have to be ready to let go of the relationship before they can find ways to make it better. But it seems they have to be truly ready, not just making strategic moves, like telling the other party to file for divorce. (I'm thinking a good counselor understands this paradox well.)

Your wife has been treating you exceptionally badly. It's really a shame, for both of you and all of the kids. 

[MaroonLiquid]

I want to let go... .Filing seems so final... .

[KateCat]

Did you say you are in one of the U.S. states that doesn't recognize "separation" status for couples? If you were in my state you'd have the option to draw up a separation agreement that would preserve insurance benefits for all members of the family but let you make some actual rules of separation.

I can't see how you can move forward when there are no rules and your wife is acting so irrationally. Unless you both sit down with a counselor and agree on some rules for a "therapeutic separation."

ADDED: Just want to add that you've been doing excellent work these past few weeks. Hope you don't ever doubt that.

[MaroonLiquid]

Yes, I am in a state that doesn't recognize that.  I am trying to make my relationship better, but realize she has free will and continues to make choices that hinder that.  I wish she would choose differently.

[Grey Kitty]

What I guarantee will NOT work well for you is to simultaneously negotiate reconciling your marriage AND dividing up any remaining joint assets, liabilities, and access to children at the same time. Pick one for discussions with her, not both. (That would be the case of letting her bring the fight down to her level and then beating you with experience!)

What do you mean by this?  I am letting her know that I am done and letting her go as this is the decision it seems she wants.  I am telling her what values she crossed, what my line was and what belongings I want to move on. 

I'm gonna be a hard-a$$ here.

No, you are NOT letting her know that you are done. Letting her know you are done is telling her something, not asking her something. It might look like:

• Serving her divorce papers or having her served.



• Telling her that you don't want her back.

If there is a request in the email... .if there is an action you are telling her to take or asking her to take, you aren't done with her. You are still involved with her. You almost sound afraid to get a divorce from her without her permission!

... .Don't ask for a divorce because you want her to come back to you!

[formflier]

 

You need to have a long meeting with a lawyer. 

Questions:

Ask him what it looks like if you decide to stay married... .but need to protect yourself from her "tactics" and "decisions" where she seems to be pushing you to file... .

No idea what you will hear... .but you need to know.

If you don't want a divorce... .don't get one... .that is your choice. 

Once you know your legal options... .you'll know... .and the advice from this board may or many not change.  We'll have to see.

Take a deep breath... .and go get legal answers... .then... .make decisions.

My hope for you... .is that if you do end up deciding to file... .you do it from a position of choice... .not "throwing your hands up"... .or in desperation... .

Hang in there! 

 

[formflier]

 

Grey Kitty is right.

Don't ever... .ever... .tell her something like done... .unless you really are.

If you get to the point where you are done... .sit on that.   Don't tell her.

Make sure you still feel that way after a week ... .or two...

Remember... .make wise choices... .wisdom is usually not hasty.

[KateCat]

You need to have a long meeting with a lawyer. 

Questions:

Ask him what it looks like if you decide to stay married... .but need to protect yourself from her "tactics" and "decisions" where she seems to be pushing you to file... .

No idea what you will hear... .but you need to know.

This is a very creative idea. A good attorney will take this question seriously, I believe.

[MaroonLiquid]

You need to have a long meeting with a lawyer.  

Questions:

Ask him what it looks like if you decide to stay married... .but need to protect yourself from her "tactics" and "decisions" where she seems to be pushing you to file... .

No idea what you will hear... .but you need to know.

This is a very creative idea. A good attorney will take this question seriously, I believe.

What do you mean they will take it seriously?

[MaroonLiquid]

One more thing, why does it seem that my wife is getting worse instead of better?  I would have figured with the changes I have made, she would have made some herself (started to turn from these destructive bahaviors at least) by now.  That is the disheartening thing for me.

[formflier]

 

Take it seriously... .I think that means attorneys understand this is a real problem... and a real position that some want to take.

Yes... I can see it is a bummer that she is not getting better... .it could be a long "extinction burst".

It could continue to get worse.  We won't know.

All you can do... is what you can do... .do the best you can!

 

[MaroonLiquid]

Take it seriously... .I think that means attorneys understand this is a real problem... and a real position that some want to take.

Yes... I can see it is a bummer that she is not getting better... .it could be a long "extinction burst".

It could continue to get worse.  We won't know.

All you can do... is what you can do... .do the best you can!

 

Hmmm.  Long extinction burst.  That is an interesting take.  Can you explain that in this instance?

[formflier]

Hmmm.  Long extinction burst.  That is an interesting take.  Can you explain that in this instance?

Not really... .it's just my best guess... .on the positive side... .to try to make this "fit" with BPD traits.

So... .your best case... .is that it's something like that and she eventually "snaps out of it".

Worst case... .she is just done with you... .and doesn't have the guts to do it herself... .

Whatever other options are in between.

Please don't make your decisions based on what you "think" she is... .or is doing.  Visit the lawyer... .get the facts... .post them here...

And... .take some long hard looks in the mirror... .talk to your IC. 

Make this about you... .not her.

[KateCat]

Yes, that is what I meant by an attorney (and I think you need an experienced attorney with a concentration in family law) will take seriously the idea that a person may need specific legal protections from a spouse.

If your wife is not used to the idea of hearing you say "no" this really could be a "long extinction burst." Kind of like a long tantrum.

But whatever it is, you do need to move to protect yourself.

[MaroonLiquid]

Yes, that is what I meant by an attorney (and I think you need an experienced attorney with a concentration in family law) will take seriously the idea that a person may need specific legal protections from a spouse.

If your wife is not used to the idea of hearing you say "no" this really could be a "long extinction burst." Kind of like a long tantrum.

But whatever it is, you do need to move to protect yourself.

The long tantrum makes sense considering that before our separation that I didn't say no hardly at all for fear of the anger/push back episode.  Especially now that I have said I won't be used in certain situations (insurance which open enrollment started today and she doesn't know that).  I do need to protect myself though and will make sure to ask about that.

[waverider]

One more thing, why does it seem that my wife is getting worse instead of better?  I would have figured with the changes I have made, she would have made some herself (started to turn from these destructive bahaviors at least) by now.  That is the disheartening thing for me.

You have changed the status quo, her established coping mechanisms of projection and blaming are being compromised. This creates a panic and desperate behavior.

If you want to drive your own future you need to put your hands on the wheel, no point sitting in the back giving your wife suggestions as to where you would like to go. She will still go where she feels impelled to go. At the moment she is completely lost.

As the others have said if you want out you will have to hog the wheel or she will drive you into the ditch. There is no amicably steering your way out of a BPD relationship.

If you need more space to think you need to maintain minimum contact separation. Whatever your final choice is will take all your strength and confidence. If this is your first attempts at standing form it wil take a long time for her to accept this. In the meantime dont attempt to fix anything as it is all too unstable.

As Formflier says if you think you want to leave, do not mention this until it is a final conclusion and the wheels are irreversibly in order. You can't retract anything you say once you have said it.

[MaroonLiquid]

One more thing, why does it seem that my wife is getting worse instead of better?  I would have figured with the changes I have made, she would have made some herself (started to turn from these destructive bahaviors at least) by now.  That is the disheartening thing for me.

You have changed the status quo, her established coping mechanisms of projection and blaming are being compromised. This creates a panic and desperate behavior.

If you want to drive your own future you need to put your hands on the wheel, no point sitting in the back giving your wife suggestions as to where you would like to go. She will still go where she feels impelled to go. At the moment she is completely lost.

As the others have said if you want out you will have to hog the wheel or she will drive you into the ditch. There is no amicably steering your way out of a BPD relationship.

If you need more space to think you need to maintain minimum contact separation. Whatever your final choice is will take all your strength and confidence. If this is your first attempts at standing form it wil take a long time for her to accept this. In the meantime dont attempt to fix anything as it is all too unstable.

As Formflier says if you think you want to leave, do not mention this until it is a final conclusion and the wheels are irreversibly in order. You can't retract anything you say once you have said it.

I don't want a divorce.  I know I can't control what she does, but I do want her to start showing signs of making better choices and getting better.  Right now, I know I want it more than she does.  The other night, it was hard seeing her lucid even if it was for 10-15 minutes, but I had my wife back, even momentarily.  I want to continue to believe the best and that she'll change, but I know that 6 months down the road I don't want to still be in limbo.  Either she starts to make changes for "us" or I have to move on with my life at some point.

[waverider]

Not all choices we make are what we want or would prefer.

Often it is because it is the best path forward.

It is often suggested you put a time frame on these things, so that you are not in perpetual limbo.

You cant live your life by default. A time frame allows this particular phase to run its course, whatever that may be.

[MaroonLiquid]

Not all choices we make are what we want or would prefer.

Often it is because it is the best path forward.

It is often suggested you put a time frame on these things, so that you are not in perpetual limbo.

You cant live your life by default. A time frame allows this particular phase to run its course, whatever that may be.

It sucks because I think that the "extinction burst" tantrum has a lot of weight in this instance.  My issue now is my open enrollment for insurance.  I told her that if we were working on our marriage (in earnest), I would keep her on, but that ends in the 23rd.  Thinking about keeping her on and not telling her.  This is a tough one.

[Rapt Reader]

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