Tried to set a boundary, not sure how well it went, see what happens...

[jedimaster]

Some background--about three years ago my uBPDw decided we should go into farming on our little place.  So for the past three years I have spent hundreds of hours and she has spent thousands of dollars repairing/building fences, pens, chicken coops, raised beds, buying sheep, goats, bees, chickens, etc, etc.  I have literally worked seven days a week to try to fulfill her "vision" of this little showplace that's supposed to look like a petting zoo and somehow magically make money while she does her own thing somewhere else.  After the initial interest wore off, she has gradually pushed more and more of the responsibility to me until this past June she completely washed her hands of it--the work and support that is; I'm still supposed to make a go of it without her help and am constantly told how I don't share the "vision" and am not doing my job.

Yesterday I'm taking a shower and she comes home to find a goat out--not uncommon for anyone who knows about goats.  It's just part of raising them.  But after she and my son put the goat up, she comes storming upstairs and without even saying hello, starts in on how I'm not fulfilling the "vision" and she can't even stand to go out there because it doesn't look the way she envisioned it, and what am I going to do about it.

Being naked and wet, walking away was not an option, so I told her in a calm, quiet, but firm voice, that I was going to do what I could do, given the time, money, and other responsibilities I had, just like she did the best she could do with her time, money, and responsibilities, and I was not going to put up with any more criticism if she was not willing to help.

Well of course, that hit the fan.  She has hardly spoken in almost 24 hours. I am going on as though the episode is over (which it is as far as I'm concerned) and am being cordial and as nice as she will allow.  I'm not sure if I handled it as well as I should have, but I am through beating myself up over things.  Kowtowing to her and groveling doesn't work, so I don't see the point of worrying over every single word.  I did my best, and hopefully next time will be even better.

As an aside, in support group last night we were challenged to do something for us this week.  She has been nagging me that I should get up earlier and get more farm chores done in the morning--in other words, extend my workday even more.  So with the time change and it getting daylight sooner, I did get up earlier... .put on my shorts and went for a 2-mile run.   It was a lot easier to face the morning on a runner's high.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

  I think you are doing well! Especially the morning jog!

Your handle reminds me of one of my favorite sayings... .from another jedi master... .which applies 110% to boundary enforcement:

":)o or Do not. There is no try."

[jedimaster]

":)o or Do not. There is no try."

Some of the most profound words ever to come from a movie. 

I am still a Padawan when it comes to dealing with BPD... .but I am determined that the Dark Side will not prevail 

[jedimaster]

She's still ticked [surprise].  I tried to let her just vent with a minimum of rebuttal, and tried everything I could think of to validate and practice SET.  Once the discussion started to go around in circles and I offered to walk away, which did bring a measure of focus back.  However, the focus was naturally on her and her view of reality.  She actually said she hoped all the stuff she was saying was a "reality check" for me.  I have learned that it is possible to say things like "It certainly is," and "I totally understand" with complete sincerity, knowing that what I understand and what she understands I understand are worlds apart.  Understand?  

I'm really having a hard time getting a handle on what the underlying emotional problem is.  It seems to be somehow related to being secure.  Money is tight these days and she has really been on a rant about money.  She even claimed to have applied for a job at the local poultry plant, which is definitely the employer of last resort around here.  I don't worry too much about that; either she'd luck into an office job with her skills or she'd last about two days out on the floor.  She is having surgery in a couple of weeks and I told her that when she is recovered, if it really made her feel more secure to get a job then I'd do whatever I could to support her.  That seemed to catch her notice for a couple of minutes, before she went back to her familiar ground of insisting that if I'd just make this farm profitable, we'd be fine.  She also claimed to have spent her inheritance on getting the farm started (actually by the time she got "into" farming, all she had left of that was enough for a couple of bee colonies and some equipment; the rest of the farm came out of our pockets.)  When she claimed to have worked from 6 am to midnight to get this farm started, I almost had to physically hold my jaw up.  Yes, in the beginning we both put in some long hours, but her days of doing that are loong gone.  Meanwhile mine are supposed to continue ad infinitum.

As I mentioned in the OP, she "suggested" if I'm going to get up earlier, I should use the time for farm work and run at night (there is a lighted track near us).  I replied that since I don't run every single day anyway, why not do some other work on the mornings I don't run.  Either that made so much sense even she had to agree or she realized how bad it would sound to disagree.  Either way for the moment I get to keep my morning runs.

I realize that each kind of forum/social platform has a unique etiquette.  I know most of the posts on here are of the "need help" variety.  I have made a few like this one that basically amount to journaling what I am dealing with.  If I need to limit that kind of thing, please mods/advisors let me know.  I don't want to be the guy that rambles/rants so much that everybody just skips him over  

[jedimaster]

She also said don't get too selfish with the things I'm doing to take care of myself.  Those "things" of course stem from the fact she all but ordered me into therapy to "get fixed" so she could stand to stay married to me.    I think her natural paranoia is telling her the conversations in therapy and in support group aren't all just about me 

[Grey Kitty]

Somebody here said very perceptively that he was giving advice here in trying to cement his own progress as well as wanting to help the poster. I'm pretty sure I do that too--and one of the wonderful things about this is that the many people in this community are all working on different issues at different levels. Even if you get three answers based on what your three advisors are personally working on, they are all valid... .and hopefully one will resonate with what you need to do as well.

Ramble much, Grey Kitty? Pot, meet Kettle

What I'm working on myself is trying to hang on to a few things which are MINE and not part in my wife's domain. Sometimes I'm in tears when I realize how I feel like I'm hanging onto a single thread with my whole existence suspended over the abyss.

I get to keep my morning runs.

I think that claiming your morning run (as many days a week as you wish to do it) is an excellent thing for you to do.

Note: You said it like your wife controls whether you get a morning run or not. This is only true if you let it be true.

Just tell your wife you are going for a run, or let her observe you heading outside in your running shoes.

[jedimaster]

I get to keep my morning runs.

I think that claiming your morning run (as many days a week as you wish to do it) is an excellent thing for you to do.

Note: You said it like your wife controls whether you get a morning run or not. This is only true if you let it be true.

Just tell your wife you are going for a run, or let her observe you heading outside in your running shoes.

Yeah, I meant that in jest, but it does sound that way.  I need to keep in mind that comments like that take on a different shade of meaning in this forum.  I have no intention of giving up my morning runs.  Lately I have only been running seriously on weekends with my son and am adding back some more exercise for me.  I was just surprised that when I offered a reasonable compromise, she accepted it like an ordinary person.  That doesn't happen much (read: never).  My knees won't put up with more than 3 days a week anyway.

[waverider]

I get to keep my morning runs.

I think that claiming your morning run (as many days a week as you wish to do it) is an excellent thing for you to do.

Note: You said it like your wife controls whether you get a morning run or not. This is only true if you let it be true.

Just tell your wife you are going for a run, or let her observe you heading outside in your running shoes.

  I was just surprised that when I offered a reasonable compromise, she accepted it like an ordinary person.  That doesn't happen much (read: never).  My knees won't put up with more than 3 days a week anyway.

Sometimes surprising what they will let pass when you are clear and firm.

Posting positive progress provides lessons for others to consider, and  is very validating for yourself to receive feedback

[jedimaster]

I'm really having a hard time getting a handle on what the underlying emotional problem is.  It seems to be somehow related to being secure.  Money is tight these days and she has really been on a rant about money.  

She has decided that the solution to the money woes is to have his and her funds.  She refuses to use the debit card from our joint account for groceries, etc, and has refused to buy groceries until I bring her the cash.  Fine, so I bring her cash, otherwise she apparently intends to starve us out.  So getting ready to go shopping she spreads all the money out on the bed and proceeds to count and sort it out loud.  I left and went downstairs to fix a snack.  If she intends to compete for Best Actress In A Stupid Drama, I'm not going to be her audience any more.

[Grey Kitty]

I get to keep my morning runs.

... .

Yeah, I meant that in jest, but it does sound that way.

I get that it was intended in a lighthearted way. I'm still going to call you on it. I find that my use of words is significant. Since I'm trying to change my actions, it is important to use my words in a way that reflect the actions I want to be taking, rather than the ones I wish to stop. 'Nuff said.

She has decided that the solution to the money woes is to have his and her funds.  She refuses to use the debit card from our joint account for groceries, etc... .

She may have handed you a GOLDEN opportunity here. You have a chance to pick up the ball and run with it!

Every time my wife and I have made a change to be more individual and less joined, it has been a bit of a difficult adjustment, and then a huge relief. (We once shared an email account... .We once shared a phone. Now we have three email addresses, mine, hers, and ours... .and honestly, the less use the shared one gets, the better) We haven't separated out money yet.

BTW, if you "agree" to her demand, and then force her to live with it, not just when it is convenient for her or allows her to create drama, she will probably blow up at you over it... .however... .if my experience is any indication, you will both be happier in the end.

Another thing I'm doing... .is trying to significantly reduce the number of joint projects in my life... .you might want to chew on ways to shift the farm dynamic. (Her idea originally... .now her chance to nag you to work at it without doing anything herself)

[jedimaster]

Could I ever give you a list of "joint" projects that aren't any more!  That is her preferred M.O.  Get us involved in something together, make sure I'm really enjoying doing it with her, and then run away like hell.  Some of them I've kept on with, others I haven't.  Either way I get an earful.  We were supposed to train together for a half-marathon during the winter and run it together last April.  About February she cooked up some random argument and made some impossible to follow connection to the training, and dumped it.  That one broke my heart, and she knows it.  Even before I knew what BPD was, I decided after that I will NEVER, EVER emotionally invest myself again in an activity with her.  She has no right to that much power over my feelings.  Nobody does.  Interestingly, some time later her excuse was that "you never run with our son, and I wanted him to be a part of it."  So I started making a weekly run date with him (he's the one that is 28 with intellectual disabilities), and last weekend we ran a 10K together, his first.  It's the only time I can ever remember her genuinely saying she was proud of me. 

I do get some respite while working with the livestock, but I cannot put in the time it would take to really do it up right, either in the real world or in her universe.  I'm hoping to eventually scale the farm down to something manageable.  We'll see.  All our animals have names, even the pigs who are destined for the freezer    So I'll have to take some time with that.

I think I'm going to flow with the money thing and see how it goes.  We also about to do some remodeling and I'm considering leaving her name off the building fund account.  I'm thinking the risk of it disappearing before the work gets done is greater than the risk of me stepping in front of a bus and her having to file a claim for that money.  There's life insurance enough to cover until she could get it straightened out.  I hate to do that but I'm having to do a lot of things I never thought I would lately.

[formflier]

 

Well well well... .I never figured I would run into this on this forum... .

I should update my resume' for everyone... .retired Naval Aviator, retired Logic Man (superhero type... .), and retired Goat Farmer... .

Spent 7 years on a small farm with a big family...

About 3-4 years in we suffered a massive natural disaster... .flood... .and were out of our property for about 6 months.  BPD traits started appearing... .Logic Man showed up and did all the wrong things.  BPD went nuclear for several years... .

Then... .we got "miniature" cow.  She got it... .except... .it looked full size... .and was.  She had been sold a bill of good... .and I had to care for it for several months until it got sold... .

Man... .I'm glad those days are over... .

What kind of goats do you have?

Note... .I probably just hijacked a thread... .but... .I'm sure there is something in guidelines that says... .as long as the hijack is about goat farming combined with BPD... .you are clear!         

What would happen if you invited one of your goats in for dinner?   

[jedimaster]

Goat people seem to attract one another... .it was inevitable 

We have a mixed herd of Cashmere, Nubian, and Tennessee Fainting Goats.  My wife likes to do crafts and the whole thing originally started with getting a couple of Cashmere goats to harvest the wool.  For any non-goaties, Cashmeres shed in the spring; you don't have to shear them, you just comb them or literally pull the wool off with your hands.  Well a "couple" turned out to be 4, and then she decided we needed Nubians to milk, and then fainting goats, just because.  Realize that when all this began, there was not a foot of usable fence on our property.  She informed me on a Monday that the Cashmeres were weaned and to be picked up on Saturday, and then proceeded to give orders while my sons and I sweated our way through getting a basic pen up out of leftover fencing and posts.  Just keep replaying that scenario a few more times and you have an idea how we got to where we are today. 

We ended up with some Nubians, one of which freshened and for a while we were getting a nice bit of milk from her.  Right in the middle of learning how to have our own milk goat was when she decided it was a good time to detonate a small tactical nuke and get herself out of goat farming.

Currently we have nine goats and three sheep.  In one pasture we have 7 does and a buck, and we have one young doeling who is on loan to a nearby day camp as their petting goat and horse companion.  In another pasture we have two Dorper/Katahdin ewes (meat/dairy sheep--another abandoned project) and an older Shetland ram (a gift from one of her farming friends).  I have no idea what we are going to do with these other than keep them fed and comfortable.

We have actually kept a couple of kids in the house (in our bedroom!) for their first couple of weeks. One was born with weak legs, and the other one the mother wasn't producing milk so we had to bottle feed.  They're actually not hard to take care of at that age.  After the first couple of days they can sleep through the night in a dog crate and if you take them straight from the crate to a puppy pad, you can usually catch the morning tinkle.  After that, just bottle them and take them out to play.  I wouldn't want to keep a grown goat in the house, but a newborn kid is much easier than a puppy.

She'd be perfectly happy to have a goat in for dinner, as long as I did all the cleanup.

[jedimaster]

 We also about to do some remodeling and I'm considering leaving her name off the building fund account.  I'm thinking the risk of it disappearing before the work gets done is greater than the risk of me stepping in front of a bus and her having to file a claim for that money.  There's life insurance enough to cover until she could get it straightened out.  I hate to do that but I'm having to do a lot of things I never thought I would lately.

The funds for the remodeling work came today and after getting some more advice yesterday, I did indeed open a separate building fund checking account in only my name, but with her as a payable-on-death beneficiary.  She cannot write checks on it as long as I am alive, but all she has to do is present ID and a death certificate if something happens to me and the money is hers to spend/waste as she sees fit.  By then I won't care    The bank could put her on without her signature or even notifying her, and at the moment she is so wrapped up in herself she hasn't even asked about it.  As much as I would love to involve her, this is some work that has to be completed or our homeowner's is going to dump us, and with winter coming on there is no more time for shenanigans.  We have already been down this road a couple of times before and I just don't have the patience or time or the money.  She will agree to a perfectly sensible and affordable plan, and the next day that convo never happened and suddenly we have to have turrets and a moat and a stable for the unicorns.  It will all be criticized the rest of my days anyway, so I might as well do it the best way I can.  Anyway enough for the gripe session, I'm just glad to be taking some concrete steps and getting back some control of my life.

[waverider]

I'm just glad to be taking some concrete steps and getting back some control of my life.

Thats what its all about

[formflier]

 

I think we topped out at about 25 or 30 goats.  Had a pretty serious milking operation going.

Find a local "ND"... .doctor of Naturopathy.  We sold milk to him and his patients as "natural" unpasteurized.  We never got a full blown organic certification... .that is a lot of work.

Our favorites were Nubians.  Toggenburgs made lots of milk... but the milk tasted bad.  Nubian milk rocked.

Alpine milk was good as well.  Our first goat was an alpine.