HELP BPD Colleague is triggering me and draining me

[caughtnreleased]

I don't know where to post something like this so I figured I'd try this board... .I have to work very closely with a woman who has regular meltdowns during meetings at work.  Everyone walks on eggshells because if you say somethign she doesn't like, she flips her lid, she's evidently miserable because she's been in the same position for 10 years plus and hates it, but can't get out of it... .and I have my desk right next to hers, so I can hear all about her "bad" dates, "bad" boyfriends, etc. etc. etc.  because she talks really loudly on the phone. 

Her energy is TOXIC.  And a few times I heard her hissing in anger to a fellow colleague... .that was soo triggering for me because my mother used to hiss in anger at my father about ME when we'd had confrontations... .Today, I distanced myself from her and acted cool with her, because she had another meltdown during a meeting yesterday, and I'm just soo fed up about it, and she spend the whole afternoon flirting with a younger colleague who I,ve got a bit of a crush on and whom I like to spend time with (it's weird because she has 20 years difference with the guy) she was joking, laughing, talking loudly (as always) with our colleague next to her... .for the whole afternoon.   I feel drained, disgusted... .and want to find another job asap... .in the meantime, how do I handle this awful situation.  Of course it's not this bad everyday, but these lows do tend to come back again and again... .I'm so fed up with it, I don't want her to drain me of my energy like this... .I have to work with her... .that's it! but it's already too much.  Any advice?

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[Panda39]

Has anyone spoken to her boss?  Have you tried Human Resources? Sounds like her behavior is very unprofessional why do you think it is tolerated?  Can you move your desk to another location? Does your company offer an Employee Assistance Program (EAP).  You could tell her that she seems really stressed out and it seems like she could use some support and refer her to the EAP for some "free" therapy.

[caughtnreleased]

thanks for your help and suggestions.  She actually yells at her boss's boss... .in meetings.  Sometimes he just folds, and sometimes he gently and kindly stands his ground. I think they had a meeting with her to tell her to cool it, but she's been in the company for 14 years and I think its a kind of situation where she can't be fired, but they won't let her leave the position she is in because she hoards information and won't let anyone else have it... .

She was given a 5 week leave a couple of years ago.  It's clear she's burnt out... .we do have an EAP... .but I suppose it's up to her to look into it... .maybe I should use it to figure out how to manager her.  I could try to ask to have my desk moved... .except my boss (who is the one who gets yelled at by her) wants me to work as closely with her as possible (I think he was hoping I would be a buffer)... .anyway, it's just a bad situation all around.  full of poison.

[Panda39]

Wow, sounds like you have an enabling boss. If you're comfortable talking to your boss you might want to tell him/her how this co-worker's unprofessional behavior is making you feel and that you would like to move your desk.

Have you tried talking to the co-worker directly?  Has anyone confronted her?

[caughtnreleased]

Confronted... .I don't think so.  But I'm pretty sure she's been told over the years that she needs to keep it under wraps.  The younger colleague has been trying to "coach" her... .like telling her not to lose it in meetings, to stop talking loudly on the phone about her personal problems, to stop imitating the laugh of our Director... .there's a few things she's stopped (like the laughter imitation), but she seems to be getting worse on the yelling in meetings front. 

I think moving the desk might be an option although... .there's not really an place to move it to... .except a few feet further from her... .but maybe that's enough.  I feel like we're both in eachother's personal space and she takes up way too much space for my liking.  UGh!

[Louise7777]

" we do have an EAP... .but I suppose it's up to her to look into it... .maybe I should use it to figure out how to manager her.  I could try to ask to have my desk moved... .except my boss (who is the one who gets yelled at by her) wants me to work as closely with her as possible (I think he was hoping I would be a buffer)... "

I think you are very aware of the situation and you found the solution by yourself already.  

I understand your difficulties, Id call her behaviour histrionic and I get very triggered by it myself (and I deal with an uBPD/ HPD relative ONCE a year!). I can only imagine how draining it is for you to be by her side EVERY SINGLE DAY! You have all my sympathy!

As a suggestion, Id say dont get engaged. She wants the attention (thats why the loud voice and yelling). She may increase it when she realizes you dont care, but in the long run she will move to an easier target. I dont know how much your work depends on hers, but Id keep contact to a minimum, if possible. Also, no chit-chat, just the usual greetings and thats it.

[Swiggle]

That must be difficult to listen to everyday. Could you use headphones and listen to music whenever she starts talking to others or on the phone?

[caughtnreleased]

Hi thanks everyone for you sympathy. it's helpful to remind me that this si soo not right.  Mtrip, yes I use headphones and noise blockers on a regular basis... .but even then I am so close to her, that I can really hear everything.  This is really difficult for me.   Today, the younger colleague, who seems to be taking on the role of peace maker, picked up on my coldness towards him (his humouring her has made me also take a distance with him) and so we had a chat about the situation. He seems to be siding with her (against our common boss who is defnitely an enabler and she is the one who is more vulnerable).  But I did say that I find it unacceptable that someone would be so toxic in the work environment.  He agreed that teh whole situation is intolerable and dysfunctional, and I think I noticed, he set some more distance with her today.  this is soo tough on me. it's draining. Whenever she gets a call on her cellphone, she screams out moans, and laughs, etc... .It's so intolerable, EVEN with headphones AND noise blockers on!... .I know the only thing left to do is leave this job! the boss is an enabler, and the underling is nutzo... .why is it that we find ourselves in RECURRING dysfunctional situation?b this is soo discouraging for me.

[caughtnreleased]

So I,m considering doing a couple things to try and remedy this situation.  The first, is I think I will try and talk to the younger colleague whom the BPDwoman is "flirty" with.  She is 48 he is 25, and she is asking him about dating advice "Look how good looking this guy is", " should I text him today?" "oh my god, my ex posted xyz on facebook, I can't believe it... .etc, etc, etc"... .this is part of the unsufferable crap I have to listen to on a daily basis.  The younger colleague is helpful with her, and offers advice, etc.  He's not dramatic, but he does play the "older wiser person who gives advice" and she the little child who needs to be coached at work and in her dating life... .it's a bit nauseating.

 

I have discussed the situation (and her) with him... .and he says he is trying hard to convince her to change, but is starting to understand its a bit hopeless, alhtough he feels bad for her because she is in a bad situation at work that she is trapped in (he's bought some of her "poor me the world is against me" line).

Since he, she and I are all in the same space (although I am separated visually from them by a divider, but they are together on the other side) and I hear ALLL Their conversations, which are unsufferable... .I,m going to try and talk to him and tell him to be more considerate of teh fact that I am in their space, and that It's incredibly draining, and distracting for me to hear all the charades going on between them... .and if they are going to gossip, or talk about her dating life etc... .can they maybe just go for a coffee and talk about it.  Bottom line is: please have consideration for the fact that I am in this space with you, even though you can't see me.  So I,ll start with him, and if it doesn't work I'll ask to be moved. 

This situation is all the more frustrating in that there is quite a bit of chemistry between this guy and me, we went for lunch together outside of work last week and he was touching me on my arm, etc.   I feel like I am living a nightmare situation.  I feel like our crazy colleague has really picked up on the chemistry so now she's sort of trying to get in on it... .ie flirting with him etc. this situation is so crazy, I'm feeling crazy myself.

Anyway, I will definitely ask him to be considerate of the work space thing... .I am wondering if I should also broach the topic of chemistry between him and I... .I feel like it would be good to at least have that clarified... .but I'm not really sure how to do it... .I would really appreciate advice! thank you!

[Louise7777]

Caughtandreleased, not sure this is something you´d like to hear, but at least think about it... .

I had an uBPD/HPD friend and she seemed to compete with me (she competed with every woman btw). The guy I was interested suddenly added her on facebook (I know her in person, but had never met him, neither did she). I didnt know who added who, but after a short time I noticed the guy was an attention-seeker too (uNPD). So, I cut contact with both. Took me longer with her, but I took the opportunity when she raged at me (again). I didnt give any excplanation to both of them.

Im telling you my experience cause maybe MAYBE your guy likes her attention too. Maybe he´s feeling flattered and wants to feed her (seems he listens and gives advice). What seemed a red flag to me was his "rescuer" role. He seems arrogant and superior, puts himself in a higher position, therefore, he´s able to "save" people.

Id be very careful regarding what you say to him about her. It may backfire on you later. Also, it seems to me he´s getting attention from both of you and he´s feeding that. So, given what I have experienced, I would never mention chemistry to him, Id just keep a safe distance and see how things evolve for the 3 of you.

[caughtnreleased]

Hi Louise. I really appreciate the advice, and yes, this has been something I've also been thinking about as I'm totally looking out for redflags.  Here's the thing, I feel like I need to DO something to change the situation which is totally and utterly intolerable. yes, he is definitely responding to her attention.  There is no question. And yes I agree that he is feeding off of our attention... .I've gone back and forth on this... .and I decided that perhaps it was a question of my not being sufficiently responsive to some of his advances towards me.  But it's true there is a lot of back and forth going on between him and I... .without anything concrete really moving forward, which is why I thought that if I bring up chemistry, AT least it will be in the open, we can acknowledge it, decided it's a bad idea for two people working in such a toxic workplace to go any further... .and at least that would calm the fires. 

But as I think and write. you are right, he is feeding off both of our attention.  I've actually tried to tone it down... .and when I started being cool with him he comes over and asks me "what's wrong" etc... .

But yeah, might have some NPD traits.  I still think I will talk to him about having consideration for me being in the same workspace.  Why! oh WHY... .do I seem to just fall back into toxic dynamics... .I am really starting to get discouraged.  BIG time. I need to get out! far away.  Is there anyone else out there who is not NPD or BPD?

[Grey Kitty]

The "staying" board is a good place for you to get advice--you are trying to keep your job (at least for a while), and this coworker isn't going anyplace, so you are kinda stuck staying. Here are my thoughts:

1. The guy who you have chemistry with and she's flirting with:

Stay the heck away from him as far as dating, or even going to the friend-zone with him.

  He seems to be pursuing you in a way not quite appropriate for the workplace. (Touching your arm, etc.)

  He's very attracted/compelled/interested in your BPD coworker. That tells you all you need to know about his level of mental health!

If that isn't enough... .if your BPD coworker is interested in him... .and discovers that YOU are also interested in him... .she is VERY likely to blow a gasket, and aim some of her drama straight at you, instead of just broadcasting it within earshot of you!

Unless you want drama, just be civil with him!

2. How secure are you in your job? Do they like you there and want to keep you? Do you have leverage to ask for what you want?

Hmmm... .maybe you could tell your boss that sitting next to her is messing up your productivity at work, and ask to have your desk moved?

And finally suggestion #3:

Read the Lessons here on the Staying Board and start applying the tools here with your coworker. This will improve your r/s with her. Much of it is intended for romantic relationships, or written that way... .but mostly work well outside that circumstance.

Also keep posting your story and asking for suggestions... .

[formflier]

 

My two cents worth... .

I'm the executive for a 300 person organization... .here is how I would like this handled... .if this was in my organization.

Step 1... .directly talk (don't confront... that is adversarial) to the person about the behavior that is affect your productivity (make it all about productivity).

Step 2... .when she doesn't comply... .mention it again... ."help me understand how your actions help my productivity?"

Step 3... .go to HR or next level boss (your boss... not hers... .it's ok if same boss).  This is about your productivity... .not hers.  You are not tattling on her... .you are reporting concerns about your productivity... .asking for help with that...

Step 4... .keep pushing it up your chain of command (your bosses... not hers)

Remember... .if she is the golden child or has too much information... .the organization may choose her productivity... .over yours.  That's not under your control... .

Stay away from the flirty talk... who likes who... .don't try to "inform" other coworkers... .

Document your steps in a diary... .log or something... .

[caughtnreleased]

Thank you so much for your advice! this is really helpful. I think you are right about the younger colleague... .he seems to now be adding salt to the wound and yes he is encouraging her by giving her attention.  I know he is not doing well mentally, he has admitted that he thinks he has ADD, and I see a lot of anxiety in him.  His long time girlfriend broke up with him six months ago and I think he's been having difficulty with that.  For me, he did seem to be one of the more normal people in this terrible group of dysfunctional people so it was a reprieve... .but as I think about it, he's been acting moody as well, so it wasn't too much of a reprieve.   

Formflier, as you have experience in larger companies (I work for a company with 500 employees) I am wondering whether I can also talk to HR department and tell them I am interested in moving to a different spot in the company.  I think I will have to be very careful about the reason I give them regarding why I want to move to a different spot.  Do I tell them the environment is toxic where I am working? Do I tell them I don't feel my skills are being used adequately? I am valuable to the extent that it probably takes about 2 years to train a person in my position... .as the tasks are so specific, and I have been there for 1.5 years. 

[formflier]

 

I am huge on chain of command.  Go to your immediate supervisor... .be specific about behavior that is impeding your productivity...   No personal insight... .just focus on your productivity.



Skip all the thinking about who is moody... who is this... who is that... .who is dysfunctional...

If you have to ask or deal with people that are impeding productivity... .address it as such.  Mention the behavior (not the reasons you suspect)... .and how it affects your productivity.  Skip talking about how you feel... .or it makes you feel.

Note to all:  We are talking about workplace r/s issues here... .much different than romantic r/s.

At work... .it's about work... .skip the feelings... .get your job done. 

At home... .especially with a pwBPD traits... .skip the work... .skip the logic... skip all of that... .focus on feelings and validation.

The gulf between how you handle someone with BPD traits that you live with and love... .and how you handle that at work... .should be the size of the grand canyon!

[caughtnreleased]

Thanks for the advice and important distinction!

[Panda39]

She actually yells at her boss's boss... .in meetings. 

I think when this type of thing is going on you take it to HR.  The chain of command is either enabling or being abused/bullied by this person too.  Take it to the professionals in HR they will investigate.

[Grey Kitty]

I like formflier's suggestions on how to deal with it through the chain of command--your boss(es), HR, etc. Very good ideas.

The tools we have here for home/romantic relationships will still help you in directly dealing with her.

For example, my wife once completely turned around her r/s with a wretched micromanaging boss who had the uncanny ability to find the wrong tree and bark up it all week... .by finding some compassion for her boss, and applying validation. The boss was still incompetent, but she let my wife do her work without causing trouble.

[caughtnreleased]

Thanks everyone.  I would like to report that the dynamics between my BPD colleague, myself and the younger colleague have vastly improved since last week.  I have essentially frozen both of them out, and only communicate with them on work related things.  the BPD colleague has become extremely cooperative as a result  , and the younger colleague and her have stopped their shenanigans (at least for the moment).  Things are quiet.  The younger colleague is actually acting a bit like a repentant puppy who has been scolded.  He asked me if I was ok today.  Then he asked if he could keep working with me on a given project because he said he was interested in working on it.  He also was kind of trying to stay in proximity to me during a work event, sitting next to me, etc.  I'm not too sure how to act about this last part because for a while he and I had a flirtation going on, and I was trying to reciprocate (which I'm bad at doing), and it seems that the BPD colleague started mirroring me and started a flirtation with him too and he started playing us off eachother until I poured ice cold water on the whole dynamics this week, by giving both of the the cold shouder... .not too sure how to proceed without turning into the ice queen though.

My next step is definitely to go to HR and ask to be transferred to a different department... .This I find more tricky though... .because, while it's a large company, a lot of the dynamics are about allegiances, and politics.  So I don't want to compromise myself and my situation by saying the wrong thing to HR.

Thank you for the advice. The bleeding has stopped, at least for the moment.  My boss is extremely insecure, and if he gets any inkling about any of this, I can see him being quite vengeful about it.

[formflier]

My next step is definitely to go to HR and ask to be transferred to a different department... . 

Why would you ask to move departments?  Why not let your chain of command figure out the best solution... .to make you as productive as possible? 

Advice on the r/s... .focus on doing your work.  Don't worry about them feeling a cold shoulder. 

Once everyone's productivity is up... .and you meet a goal... .then do something to celebrate!

[caughtnreleased]

because my boss (the one who gets yelled at by the BPD woman in meetings) is a total control freak, removes any meaningful responsibilities from me, and undercuts me (and all others working directly beneath him) every chance he gets, and I think he enables the BPD woman.  he has, in the past, suggested that I stand up to her when she rages at him.  

I don't know how the chain of command can help me resolve that.  I think it's not just the BPD woman who is the problem... .although she can make things completely unbearable at times.  My boss is complicit in making the situation dysfunctional, so I don't know how the chain of command can help with that.

[formflier]

I don't know how the chain of command can help me resolve that.  

That's for them to figure out... .not you.  Here is the thing... .companies have a responsibility to provide a good work environment.  Whether or not your situation is actionable... is not the point.

The point is that you let your chain of command know that there is a possibly hostile work environment... .and that it is affecting your productivity.

If it looks like no movement... .request a response in writing. 

Note... don't demand specific things... .describe the environment... .  describe previous efforts to resolve this... .

[caughtnreleased]

thanks! You're right. I should make efforts to resolve the situation.  I have a tendency of simply leaving (hence the leaving board normally being my board of choice !

[caughtnreleased]

Hi I have a final request. The young colleague seems really quite upset that I've frozen him out and doesn't understand.  We did have a friendship, and I don't feel its fair for me to react so strongly.  He was triangulating between me and BPD colleague but really, in a really bad way for about a week.  He has since stopped, and she really does play into the dynamic.  He begged me to go do an errand with him today, and even tried to bribe me by saying he'd buy me chocolate I refused. The BPD lady chirps in: why didn't you offer ME chocolate!

I still feel like I need to have a talk with him and let him know something... .except I'M not sure what I say to him.  Can I just say to him that our workplace has very poor boundaries, and I am protecting myself by establishing boundaries because otherwise the situation becomes unbearable for me?  Is this something I can say to a colleague?  He's young and seems a bit clueless about this stuff, with some codependent tendencies but I think he wants to understand... .

[formflier]

 

Tell them your are especially busy lately... and are looking forward to spending time with him at the office Christmas party!

[Grey Kitty]

I like FF's suggestion. That is the safe, low-conflict path.

It does avoid directly addressing the real issue.

I recommend you avoid talking about the real issue with him until you make up your own mind clearly.

What kind of r/s do you want with him outside of work?

• Nothing?



• A friend?



• A friend who is fun to flirt with, but nothing will go from there?



• Dating?



• Some other option?

I suggest dodging the issue until you are comfortable with a decision about what you want from him, for today, for the next month... .

Once you are clear, you can say something that reflects what you want. If you are unsure... .the best you can give him is a sincere mixed message. That sounds worse than your current silence.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all possible doubt!

[AmyAlways]

Hi,

I'm going through this right now, an eerily identical scenario (younger colleague included). The first months I did walk on eggshells but somehow I was able to cope, but now I'm completely drained and feel hopeless. I read about BPD from day one because I noticed a few things off and googled them, and voila, and it helped me to stay healthy (boundaries,... .)... .until now. I can't take it anymore; we get along so well but then for no reason she starts acting as if I were invisible or dumb or someone who's done some wrong. A few minutes later she comes and sits closer and wants to be super nice to me. I've tried to ignore it and her while always maintaing a professional demeanor, which sometimes can make things worse. At some point the whole thing started to drain me to the point of depression, which is where I am right now. I can't transfer to another department and I don't want to quit (I'm trying hard not to). Bosses are of no help.

I'm going to see a therapist next week and I hope she can help me deal with this colleague. The therapist and this board are my last resort. Thank you for sharing your experiences and struggles. I just wanted to share mine today.

I don't know where to post something like this so I figured I'd try this board... . I have to work very closely with a woman who has regular meltdowns during meetings at work.  Everyone walks on eggshells because if you say somethign she doesn't like, she flips her lid, she's evidently miserable because she's been in the same position for 10 years plus and hates it, but can't get out of it... . and I have my desk right next to hers, so I can hear all about her "bad" dates, "bad" boyfriends, etc. etc. etc.  because she talks really loudly on the phone. 

Her energy is TOXIC.  And a few times I heard her hissing in anger to a fellow colleague... . that was soo triggering for me because my mother used to hiss in anger at my father about ME when we'd had confrontations... . Today, I distanced myself from her and acted cool with her, because she had another meltdown during a meeting yesterday, and I'm just soo fed up about it, and she spend the whole afternoon flirting with a younger colleague who I,ve got a bit of a crush on and whom I like to spend time with (it's weird because she has 20 years difference with the guy) she was joking, laughing, talking loudly (as always) with our colleague next to her... . for the whole afternoon.   I feel drained, disgusted... . and want to find another job asap... . in the meantime, how do I handle this awful situation.  Of course it's not this bad everyday, but these lows do tend to come back again and again... . I'm so fed up with it, I don't want her to drain me of my energy like this... . I have to work with her... . that's it! but it's already too much.  Any advice?

[caughtnreleased]

Welcome! I'm glad you found this message board, and the thread!

I am sorry you are having such problems at work.  I know how awful it can be, and draining of energy. 

I continue to have challenges with my own situation, however it has improved somewhat as I have been able to distance myself from my BPD colleague.  Essentially, I am remaining task oriented.  I admit, that yes I do walk on eggshells every so often but I have started to use the mechanisms in place so that I don't have to be the one who is "law enforcement" so to speak with her. Essentially so that I am not the only one having to face the problem woman.  My bosses have used me as a buffer, but what's not to say I can't use them as a buffer? 

Even when this lady is trying to be nice, I remain professional, courteous and polite, but I do not give any signs of "friendship" or "complicity".  She (and the younger colleague) are very much interested in forming a karpman triangle.  When I refused, they drew in the bosses as the evil ones (she is the victim, the younger colleague is the protector). 

I would say have a look at the karpman triangle, and that in order for it to exist you need three people.  So if you remove yourself (which I have done) it collapses.  It doesn't mean they won't try to keep making it happen, which is what happens in my situation, so it's a pretty continual game of resistance, and keeping my distance for me, which is unpleasant, but it is manageable for me.

What I would say is make sure you take care of yourself first in this situation.  Observe yourself and others, and protect yourself.  Use all mechanisms at your disposal to do so, because this is your job, and it would be a terrible situation to have to quit because of a lady who is bat-___ crazy!  It would be giving her much more power than she deserves.  I wish you lots of strength, as I know that this can be a really awful situation.  I am essentially spending 8 hours a day trying NOT to relive my childhood traumas through a woman who is awfully similar to my mother... . it's not pleasant. But I have managed to get it to a point where I can live with it, and where it will not be the main determining factor influencing my next career choice.

Best of luck and keep posting, it is VERY helpful.

[formflier]

  When I refused, they drew in the bosses as the evil ones (she is the victim, the younger colleague is the protector). 

Can you give us more detail on how you refused... .what did that look like? 

That could be very helpful to others.

FF

[caughtnreleased]

I created distance.  I made friends elsewhere and made it clear that their game was not interesting.  I pursued my work on my own and took leadership on different projects.  I basically just moved forward.  I was cordial with them, but kept a very large emotional distance between them.   I tried not to argue with the younger colleague when he would try and provoke me by telling me about how bat ___ crazy woman was a victim.  I didn't react when he repeatedly "accidentally" called me by her name, when he rejected an invitation I extended to him to go skiing, then asked bat ___ crazy woman to call him when she was going skiing... .there were so many attempts by him to rope me into the rivalry, the triangle, the etc.  Neither of them can handle my being separate, and constantly baited me.  It was horribly unpleasant.

 

But, I approached things with humour, rather than anger (when I could), and when I coudln't handle it I put on severely heavy duty sound protectors AND headphones to blast my music.  I basically stayed the course, and more recently, when bat ___ lady had a tempervtantrum, froze me out, lied to her boss and me about a situation, and then wrote a loongggg email to me about how I should not have asked her for the work she owed me, because it made her upset, I didn't respond or engage with her, I tried to remain cordial, and unaffected by her craziness - neither angry, nor friendly.  Just professional.  But I dealt with the problem by having a meeting with her boss and my boss, who were both supportive and sympathetic.

It was really, really REALLY hard.  But guess what.  One of them is quitting now. YAY!