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Author Topic: Painted himself black  (Read 610 times)
Jessica84
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« on: November 08, 2014, 09:28:24 PM »

My ex has painted himself so black I don't know what to say or do anymore!

He's been talking to everyone he can about our r/s. He breaks up with me for a few weeks every year, but doesn't know why and said he's tired of doing it. His family told him to find a way to stop the pattern bc he was lucky to have me in his life. But he doesn't know how bc he doesn't know why he does it. Some salesman at a store (who barely knows him) told him if he loved me, he should leave me alone. So now he's even more confused. I told him everyone has an opinion. The only one that matters is his.

But his opinion of himself is at an all time low. He's so full of guilt/regret for the breakups, and shame/blame/angry at himself for his financial situation. He doesn't want to lose me but thinks he's being selfish and unfair to me by staying in my life. Said I deserve better. I told him I was sorry he was feeling that way and dealing with so much stress, not to worry about me, and that I was there for him. I don't want to force him into a r/s he can't handle, but I don't want him to cut off all contact either. He's been having suicidal thoughts, his family lives far away, and he's alienated most of his friends.

I'm worried bc he won't stay on the fence like this for long. He's very black/white. He seems to think we should either get back together (which he can't like this) or never speak again. I told him it didn't have to be one or the other, again assuring him I was there for him.

Any advice on how to validate him better?
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waverider
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2014, 01:22:30 AM »

Dont offer any opinions or suggestions, that puts more pressure on him, highlighting his indecisiveness and hence feeling of failure.

Ask lots of questions about his feelings, without trying to link the dots or resolve things.

He doesn't need answers, he needs to facilitate the process of aligning his feelings. If you are the vehicle for this, he will see you as invaluable. Providing solutions will be seen as setting expectations and benchmarks.
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2014, 01:33:23 AM »

Jessica,

I read a small part of your history, but I don't know much about your ex. Is he receiving any therapy right now? Is he speaking more of suicide than he has in the 5 years that you have known him? If he is seeing a T, can you contact that person to advise them of his current state of mind?


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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2014, 07:04:21 AM »

He doesn't want to lose me but thinks he's being selfish and unfair to me by staying in my life. Said I deserve better.

I've had a reaction / response to this kind of statement:

It's not your !@#$@# business to tell me this. *I* will decide if I want you in my life or not. The only decision you get to make is whether you want me in yours.

I think waverider's suggestions are much more constructive than saying anything like what I did.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Either way it comes down to this... .he gets to sort out his feelings. You get to sort out yours. Anything else muddies the waters.
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2014, 07:46:41 AM »

I dealt with break ups simple. I said - I am not a computer to switch on/off my love for you every time your mood changes, I need about 6 months to let go. So every breakup activates 6 months counter, if you reappear within this time, I'll take you back with no other questions.

He tried once, twice, but the most he can do is 1-2 months. Then the pattern faded and now it's just all words or distance games
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Jessica84
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2014, 12:58:13 PM »

Thank you for all the advice. He is not in any kind of therapy but said he is going to talk to his doctor about his depression. He's decided he's having a midlife crisis and has a chemical imbalance. This should be interesting... .

I met him yesterday for breakfast, which turned into quietly working side by side on our laptops into the afternoon, to having dinner and watching football, then movies. We had a pleasant day, but it wasn't exactly painless.

Throughout the day, he shared bits and pieces of his feelings for me, confusion about our r/s, anger about his life and his job. He talked about his impulsive behaviors and how he looks for ways to escape his life -- by leaving me, leaving town, drinking, gambling, etc...   His suicide ideation is frighteningly thorough - he's made no attempts only bc he's scared they won't actually kill him, and his life would be even worse! If I shot myself, I could end up alive and paralyzed, etc... .  All hard to hear, but I listened, validated, didn't get myself too dysregulated, or give advice... .

He went from playful and funny at times, to depressed, to feeling at ease, and sometimes emotionless. Back and forth, up and down, all day. Sometimes he landed on something completely artificial-- trying to appear normal, but he couldn't hold it for more than a few minutes. Seems he was really trying to get control of his emotions. I tried to adjust to every one of his moods, sometimes escaping to the bathroom to get centered when I found myself feeling reactive on the inside, which I think he can sense.

Spending the day together may have been too much for him. Sometimes I felt my presence was hurting him or making him think too much so I offered to leave, but he kept talking or asked if I was hungry or wanted to watch a movie or take a nap, anything so I wouldn't go without directly asking me to stay. We parted ways with a long hug and a "have a good week." I don't know what to think or do anymore. He may go silent on me now, at least for a few days. This is hard!
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2014, 01:50:06 PM »

Jessica84, this isn't easy... .but it reminds me of some of the early steps into recovering from BPD that my wife took. It is encouraging, especially if it is new.

Initially she had these horrible confused self-loathing feelings. And she would project them onto me and then try to beat me up emotionally for them. At first neither of us understood what was going on.

Eventually I learned what I needed to to stop the abusive behavior.

And she did start speaking this sort of stuff out loud. More and more. And it was hard to listen to and not get triggered by it.

Eventually she managed to let go of those horrible feelings and decide that she was a lovable person and could love herself. I'm sure she could have done that without accepting that she had the feelings first. I think that sharing them with somebody else was also important.

Remember to take care of yourself--there really is a limit beyond which you will react badly. It is OK to say that you can't listen anymore.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2014, 02:12:37 PM »

Thanks Grey Kitty. He is past the point of projecting onto me. That used to be the case, but even he can't do it anymore. For the first time, he recognizes it's all him and he's having trouble climbing out of his dark hole.

Aaaaaand, as predicted... .

He sent me this text:

"I love you but I think that I need to let you move on and find another man. You deserve better than me. I hate to admit that. But it is a fact. I hope we can still talk as you remain my best friend. I will respect whatever you wish."

I honestly don't even know how to respond.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2014, 02:26:57 PM »

I just wrote "I love you too. I knew this yesterday and stayed too long anyway. I don't know what else to say. I love, I'm here for you. Be well"

He wrote back "Be well. Be happy. You deserve it"

And just like that, he's gone. Again.

If being his "best friend" means being his therapist, I can't. I can only hope he gets treatment and finds a way out of his suffering, as long as it isn't suicide. I give up.
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2014, 03:32:46 PM »

Are you ready to move on?

Are you willing to wait and see if he comes back in a bit?

I'm sure you are frustrated by this.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2014, 04:12:33 PM »

I can move on because I have to. I'll be fine. I'll grieve like a normal person does after a breakup. We broke up 2 weeks ago so I've already been doing that. I have social plans, work, exercise, etc. I always think it's over after every breakup. I move on, quicker each time. I can accept that this time it really could be over, as much as it hurts. His mental illness has finally taken him over. It's heartbreaking.

But he doesn't grieve like a normal person. He falls apart and becomes a reckless self-destructive mess. I want to do what's "right" for him. He wants to stay friends. I think I can handle that, but maybe he can't? I keep thinking that being around me is too painful for him. He knows how much he's hurt me, even though I try in every way to assure him I'm ok. I'm sure he'll come back. He'll dial me up on impulse, once he's convinced enough time has lapsed for me to have moved on, but not quite long enough to fall into the arms of someone else. (I take my time in between relationships. I don't do "rebounds". I've never done "recycles" either before him).

Maybe the best thing I can do for him is block him so he can't call me anymore? Then maybe he can spring out of this better without me? Find someone new? I'd rather he replace me than suffer, as much as I also hope he doesn't do that. Then again, maybe he needs a friend and abandoning him is the wrong answer.

I swear, I really don't know anymore... .

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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2014, 04:39:28 PM »

This crazy mixed up turmoil he is displaying is what has always been going on in his head. The difference now is that your acceptance of the disorder as allowed him to come out from behind the facade he normally protects himself with.

This leaves him raw and vulnerable, and without defenses, so he cant even delude himself.

My partner has, and is going through this.

Will he come back because you are the only person who accepts the disorder for what it is? Who knows? Its a balance of his need for a rescuer, against being exposed with no facade.

If he rebuilds his facade rather than learn new coping skills he could even paint you black as an exposure risk in an effort to protect any new facade. If on the other hand if he is seriously determined to improve he will seek all the support he can find, which will include you.

Whether he wants to connect or not will in effect be an indicator as to whether he wants to "heal" or hide behind a facade again. He can no longer hide while with you
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Jessica84
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2014, 05:06:56 PM »

Holy hell, waverider. That's deep. Thanks for letting me know what to look for. Any bit helps.

The thing is, I'm only kind and understanding to him now, but I didn't used to be. I argued with him relentlessly because I didn't know what his problem was! Oh how he used to toss the black paint on me.

A few months ago I read "Walking on Eggshells". It looked interesting in a bookstore, and since I was walking on eggshells around him, it caught my eye. I never heard of BPD before. Omg, that changed everything. I never told him about it. I just reacted less, stopped taking him so personally, communicated differently. His tantrums were fewer and less extreme, his mood were more stable, we were happy.

That's when his depression started, come to think of it. Cause-effect? Did I "expose" him by creating a healthier relationship? Omg, how much more ridiculous can this disorder get?
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2014, 05:34:13 PM »

Holy hell, waverider. That's deep. Thanks for letting me know what to look for. Any bit helps.

The thing is, I'm only kind and understanding to him now, but I didn't used to be. I argued with him relentlessly because I didn't know what his problem was! Oh how he used to toss the black paint on me.

A few months ago I read "Walking on Eggshells". It looked interesting in a bookstore, and since I was walking on eggshells around him, it caught my eye. I never heard of BPD before. Omg, that changed everything. I never told him about it. I just reacted less, stopped taking him so personally, communicated differently. His tantrums were fewer and less extreme, his mood were more stable, we were happy.

That's when his depression started, come to think of it. Cause-effect? Did I "expose" him by creating a healthier relationship? Omg, how much more ridiculous can this disorder get?

You disrupted his status quo, his old method of soothing by projection.

When my partner first came to accept she had BPD this resulted in 12 months of overdosing, endless trips to ER looking for "them" to fix her. It is now 2 years since she accepted the disorder, a year after being diagnosed, that is she is now learning it is up to her to do the hard yards, and the answer is not in a pill or blaming someone else. Keep in mind she has been on a mental illness disability for almost 20 years, so the concept of mental illness is not new, it was just a change to her previous status quo (previous diagnosis).

Denial is first reaction, tied to a need to deny, tear down or distance themselves from anything that might suggest otherwise.

It is requiring a damaged mind to show strength undergo a huge personality change which would challenge even the most strong willed amongst us.

It is like someone who was born with say a club foot and as a result of the disability they have spend their whole life sitting around doing nothing and are now grossly overweight. You are now telling them that you want them to become a marathon runner. You are going to have a hard time convincing them first of all its possible, Why should they leave their delusional comfort zone? Then you have to find a way around this disability so it is less of a hindrance. They have to shed the consequences of this dysfunctional life they always lead.

Going to take a bit more than just telling them to get their act together, which they no doubt have been told countless times. If you are the only one who is going to be patient with them, you are going to be the one they turn to IF they decide marathon running would a good future. If they dont want it, or can't face it, they dont want you around spoiling their delusion. Your presence exposes them to their own failings.

They will say they are distancing to protect you. pwBPD are not that noble, they are protecting themselves, grand gesturing is the facade used to hide their own self centered reasoning. Even if they dont know it, subconsciously this is what they do.

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Jessica84
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2014, 06:34:13 PM »

Obviously I didn't mean to do this. He once told me I knew him better than he knew himself. I thought that was a weird thing to say. I also didn't think it was possible when he changed every 5 minutes! I had no idea how uncomfortable it made him, thinking that I could truly "see" him. I couldn't!

If he's really not that selfless in wanting me to be happy, then why does he want to stay friends? Won't I always be a reminder to him of his true, exposed self?

I realize now how deep his denial runs. It occurred to me recently he's familiar with mental health disorders for his job. He's not in that industry, but he knows all the dx's! How he has not figured this out yet? He can't seriously believe this is a midlife crisis! Officially, he is diagnosed with OCD, depression and anxiety. Some are symptoms of BPD, but he has all the other traits including rapid mood swings, impulsive nature, and self-harm. He punches walls and burns himself. He was sexually abused as a child. He's classic BPD, but I don't dare tell him. This has to be his own discovery, his own journey.

Maybe this is where my journey with him has to end. He's painted himself black and me white. I've tried everything. BPD has won. This sucks. It's been a horrible, wonderful, confusing, interesting, fun, sad ride... .
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2014, 08:36:40 PM »

Obviously I didn't mean to do this. He once told me I knew him better than he knew himself. I thought that was a weird thing to say. I also didn't think it was possible when he changed every 5 minutes! I had no idea how uncomfortable it made him, thinking that I could truly "see" him. I couldn't!

Heard the exact same statement

If he's really not that selfless in wanting me to be happy, then why does he want to stay friends? Won't I always be a reminder to him of his true, exposed self?

pwBPD will struggle to stay just friends, despite best intentions, that requires emotional regulation.

I realize now how deep his denial runs. It occurred to me recently he's familiar with mental health disorders for his job. He's not in that industry, but he knows all the dx's! How he has not figured this out yet? He can't seriously believe this is a midlife crisis! Officially, he is diagnosed with OCD, depression and anxiety. Some are symptoms of BPD, but he has all the other traits including rapid mood swings, impulsive nature, and self-harm. He punches walls and burns himself. He was sexually abused as a child. He's classic BPD, but I don't dare tell him. This has to be his own discovery, his own journey.

My partners exact diagnosis for 20 years. She had an affair with her psychiatrist for 7 years (thats a whole other can of ethical worms). It wasn't even picked up then. I waa the first to notice it, before finally it becoming official

Maybe this is where my journey with him has to end. He's painted himself black and me white. I've tried everything. BPD has won. This sucks. It's been a horrible, wonderful, confusing, interesting, fun, sad ride... .

You personally cant beat BPD you can only learn to live with it or choose to exit.

At the moment all we have achieved is to eliminate most of the destructive elements so they we are both on the same side and I haven't been painted black in a long while now. She has yet to learn new coping skills, but the "system" is in place for that to slowly be implemented
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2014, 10:52:10 PM »

Well isn't that a kick in the head. 5 years of drama letting a mentally ill person call all the shots. Things finally start getting better, I practically have to become a head shrink to date him, and... .Game Over? Oh well. As long as he doesn't commit suicide, I don't care anymore.

I feel drained to the last drop by all of this.

 
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2014, 12:47:09 AM »

I spoke too soon. I am so stuck with this man, aren't I? We still have to work together, but only by email. Tonight I sent out a report that was due. He got mad about where I put his name on a list (alphabetical instead of some other order). Accused me of being passive aggressive and evil and it got worse from there. Ugly texts. Wow, what happened to I love you, you deserve better than me?

I apologized and agreed to make the changes, even though it seems completely petty and irrelevant. He said don't bother. Then more negative texts. Yes, I JADEd. No, I didn't validate him. I have a job to do and a right to defend my work. Finally I said Stop. I'm not doing this. I heard you and I'll take care of it. Good night.

Then he apologizes for overreacting, and please forgive me's come next. And after all that, says it's a really good paper after all. What the heck?

This is becoming a nightmare. He splits me and unsplits me in split seconds?
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2014, 09:10:36 AM »

Lesson #437... .

If you want closure or a clean end to a r/s like this... .it is up to you to get it. You won't get any help there from a disordered person.

And lesson #437.1... .

A transition to "just friends" won't eliminate any of the push-pull. It is one more move in the push-pull game.

 My heart goes out to you. It is such a confusing roller coaster.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2014, 11:16:37 AM »

Thanks GK. This is funny. It reminds me of when he used to blow up at me for something I had no idea would trigger him. I would jokingly ask him for a printed list of his "rules". Dysregulated as he was, this would almost always pull him out of it. He'd joke back "you didn't know? That's Rule 592 section B"! I'd smile and say seriously? He'd reply back "I don't know. I make them up as I go along"! Truer words have never been spoken! This friendly banter smoothed over many rough spots. It was genuine, on both our parts.

As for your Lessons, I thought about quitting my job to make a clean break, but I can't do that. And I won't. I've been with this company 15 years. He has controlled this r/s, but his days of controlling anything else in my life are over. He is an adult child incapable of making good decisions about his own life, much less mine.

He can push-pull and go insane to his heart's content. He's pushed too far this time. He can paint me black. I don't care. I've been extremely patient and forgiving, but enough is enough. He's lost in his BPD world and it isn't my job to help him get out of it. As long as he doesn't commit suicide, I don't care what he does anymore.
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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2014, 12:26:55 PM »

Hi Jessica,

I've noticed this line appear a few times in this thread

As long as he doesn't commit suicide, I don't care what he does anymore.

Is this where you are hooked? Are you feeling responsible for him deciding to stay alive? He has shared some suicidal ideation with you. That always has to be taken seriously. Is there anyone, even his doctor, that you can advise about this?

If you are feeling responsible for him wrt suicide, how can you unhook from that and give some freedom to yourself?
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2014, 11:20:55 AM »

Thank you, good question. I don't know how to unhook from him when it comes to this. On the one hand, he confides in me. On the other, he doesn't like what he's confiding. So I think I get why he breaks up with me. Talking to me seems to bring up all the painful feelings inside him. He unloads it, and it's a heavy load he carries, then he hates himself.

So in a weird way, I almost feel responsible for his suicide ideation. He can't hide from it around me. If I'm the vehicle causing him to see what's wrong with him and he doesn't like it or can't face it, aren't I making it worse for him? Isn't he better off rebuilding his facade and doing the 'fake it til you make it' thing to pull out of this?

In public he has a different persona entirely. He's funny and self-mocking, sometimes life of the party. But when other people hurt his feelings (and they always do bc they think he can take it when they make fun of him, dismiss his ideas, or get mad at him), he turns to me.

He has told his brothers about his thoughts of suicide and they are checking on him (by phone since they all live in other states). I don't know his doctor, but he said he was going to make another appointment with him. All I can hope is he get a handle on his depression. I worry about him bc I've seen how he tries to alleviate his suffering. Always in self-destructive ways... .which leads to more depression. But I keep going back to... .should I be there for him? or am I making it worse for him by doing so?  
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2014, 11:43:11 AM »

I keep going back to... .should I be there for him? or am I making it worse for him by doing so? 

Start with this: When you do this, are you making it better or worse for yourself?

And as for the suicide ideation... .I suggest you make a HARD, SHARP, FIRM boundary for yourself:

Are you concerned right now that he will commit suicide?

If the answer is YES, it is time to involve somebody trained to deal with it. Call a suicide hotline, take him to an emergency room, or call 911. This is a job for a professional. You can't do this alone and shouldn't try.

If the answer is NO, handle it yourself. Be supportive if you have the emotional capacity to do so.

It isn't something you can ever be sure about. All you can do is use your best judgement.

Sitting on the fence, worrying about what you should do / are obligated to do / etc. is just toxic for you to go through. Try to jump off that fence as quickly as you can.

 GK

P.S. Extra reading for you to help you find where your line is on this issue... .

Depression and Suicidal Ideation

TOOLS: Dealing with threats of Suicide and Suicide Attempts

Emergency - Local Live Support Centers

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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2014, 12:31:41 PM »

Very hard to say what he will do. He is unstable. Thanks for the links. I'll re-read them.

The good news is I've heard all his "rationale" leaning AGAINST suicide:

- His life insurance isn't high enough so he's still worth more alive than dead.

- He lost his father young and doesn't want his children to go thru what he did.

- He's still paying college tuition (his youngest graduates next year).

- He is the only brother living in the same city as his mother so it's up to him to look after her.

- He wants to die a hero's death (or a sudden heart attack), not a coward's.

- He's afraid any attempt won't actually kill him, but make his life worse.

- He's afraid no one will attend his funeral. He wants to be loved by all and thinks there's still a chance he could do something big and important, and his funeral will be well-attended.

There were other reasons but I can't remember them all. I'm counting on these to keep him alive.

If he makes an actual threat, I'll call 911 and alert his family. Right now, it's only ideation. I take it seriously and am keeping an eagle's eye view for cues of it tipping into danger zone. It's coming from his depression, low self-esteem, loss of youth, feeling hopeless about the future, living with enormous regrets, tired of working, being broke with no savings at his age and in serious debt he doesn't think he can ever pay off.

The symptoms of depression, if chemical, can be alleviated thru medications. He's scheduling an appt for that. The situational stuff requires therapy and hard work on his part. He's not quite ready for that, but maybe he's getting there. One can only hope.
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Olinda
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2014, 02:19:24 PM »

Read this whole thread. So applicable to me except my uBPD fiancee has not moved out and we are still working on this together.

I'm struggling right now with her splitting herself black. I can't handle being the only person she talks to about how she is feeling. She has a therapist but because it is $90 a session, she only goes about once every three weeks and says it is not helping.

Just reading about all of these options scares me, breaking up, suicide, yikes. Feeling very stressed.

Hope you figure it out, Jessica84. Sounds like you are in a much healthier place than I am.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2014, 05:25:32 PM »

Read this whole thread. So applicable to me except my uBPD fiancee has not moved out and we are still working on this together.

I'm struggling right now with her splitting herself black. I can't handle being the only person she talks to about how she is feeling. She has a therapist but because it is $90 a session, she only goes about once every three weeks and says it is not helping.

Just reading about all of these options scares me, breaking up, suicide, yikes. Feeling very stressed.

Hope you figure it out, Jessica84. Sounds like you are in a much healthier place than I am.

I don't know about healthier, but I do have support on my side with family and friends. It's still not easy.

I'm sorry you are going thru the same thing. I know it's stressful being the one they turn to. It's exhausting and frustrating, isn't it? I've run out of ways to validate his blackness. I know he feels like a failure, but his life kind of reflects that, and most of it is his own doing. It's not like someone who's skinny saying they're fat. In his case, he feels his life sucks, because it does! Watching him making it worse, in order to try to make it better, is like watching a trainwreck in slow motion.
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takingandsending
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2014, 12:50:36 AM »

Hi Jessica.

I will agree with Grey Kitty on this a bit. I totally understand how you might feel responsible in some way for his actions, but you are not. Would you consider not bothering about whether or not he is serious in his ideation and just hand that burden to a professional doctor. Find a pretext to ask who his physician is, and then call them to let them know briefly your concern and your experience of his state of mind.

And, would you further consider creating the boundary that when he brings up suicide, you offer him the option of assisting him with calling a crisis line or ending the conversation and removing yourself from the situation after validating that you can see and understand that he is suffering?

I am concerned that this may be very toxic for you. Basically, you are being asked to carry the burden or weight of his pain for him, which can never work for him or for you. As Grey Kitty said, how is this helping  or harming you?

So sorry that you are going through this. I can only imagine how painful this can be for you. 
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2014, 12:54:34 AM »

This suicide idealization is often the final hook that pwBPD have to keep you from taking control of the decision as to stay or go.

To anyone contemplating leaving I would strongly advise you to think about your response to this, as it is very common.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2014, 10:07:22 AM »

Waverider- Common? Are you saying this is another way to keep us hooked? Even though he said to move on? Do they ever mean what they say? Hard to look for feelings when they resort to texts. What is the best response? Sorry for all the questions. And thank you for all your wisdom. To say I'm confused is an understatement!

Takingandsending- Thank you. You are right. It's not my burden to carry. I felt strong enough to do this, but that isn't the point. And in truth I'm probably not anyway. He needs to carry it to a professional. I need to let him.

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« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2014, 10:13:54 AM »

Are you saying this is another way to keep us hooked? Even though he said to move on?

I'd say that. I wouldn't say it is a conscious plan, premeditated. Just that it is the only sort of coping tools they have left, and they use it. (Like doing brain surgery when your only tool is a hammer!)

Excerpt
Do they ever mean what they say?

I believe they do mean exactly what they say. At that instant. And by another instant, they feel something different, with equal sincerity. And they cannot let themselves see the contradiction. Even if the two are complete opposites.
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