Painted himself black

[waverider]

Takingandsending- Thank you. You are right. It's not my burden to carry. I felt strong enough to do this, but that isn't the point. And in truth I'm probably not anyway. He needs to carry it to a professional. I need to let him.

This takes strength too, and why many nons feel totally trapped. Part of the idea of the Staying Board is to help you become stronger so that you are in a position to choose and follow through on this step of whether to stay or go. By learning what is required to cope with a BPD relation, and what you can, and cannot, achieve we ultimately arrive at a position that helps us decide how to move forward and hopefully the strength to follow that path without regrets.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Jessica84]

Thank you Grey Kitty and Waverider. I do understand this on an intellectual level. Emotionally is another story. My love for him has been consistent and growing stronger for 5+ years. I don't know how to turn it off like he can. This push-pull thing is starting to have a rubberband effect. Stretch someone back and forth enough times and... .snap.

What does anyone really get out of a BPD partner? I know when it's good, it's great, and when it's bad, it's awful. But really... .We self-censor, learn new languages and codes, defuse bombs, walk around landmines... .for what? slightly less bloodshed on the battlefield? Are we at war or in love? I'm starting to question how I unknowingly enlisted in the military!

[takingandsending]

Jessica, those are really good questions. And if you find out, can you let me know?   I, too, am asking how I enrolled myself. In the end, as my MC put it during an individual session, sometimes the best BPD relations achieve is functionality, often impaired in growth and intimacy. Maybe that's in the normal spectrum for RS, but it's not easy to move to the top of the power curve.

You are doing a great job of staying present with this. Keep treating yourself well. 

[Grey Kitty]

What does anyone really get out of a BPD partner?

Maybeso has posted very thoughtfully on this question before. We (as a non-) choose or accept a partner who will limit the intimacy in the relationship. (as you described!) And coming up with the conclusion that we have our own issues with intimacy, as much as the pwBPD does, and that this works for us.

When we are ready for deeper intimacy, we choose new partners who can go there with us.

That's her answer. It may not be yours. What do you think?

[Jessica84]

Maybe I have some intimacy issues. Or maybe I fell in love with a man before I realized he had intimacy issues. I'm willing to consider both.

The big problem in this present moment is his depression. I went to meditate today. For the first time in a long while I got clarity and peace. I sat there trying not to think. I suddenly remembered who we are. Two people who love each other, with one of us having a really rough time of life right now. He's been there for me many times. It's not as one-sided as I thought. It's just been awhile since I needed him.

I've always naturally known how to un-dysregulate him (new word )... .or these 5 years could've been much worse, based on all I've read here. Unfortunately, he didn't have the same gift so it was a rollercoaster at times. I only learned about BPD a few months ago. The lessons and tools started making things better... .until he took a turn for the worse.

The reality is he's made mistakes in his life. Big ones. There are consequences. He's now having to face those, hence the depression. I didn't cause this. Some of his mistakes are because of BPD, probably all of them. I've made mistakes with no excuse at all. But getting swallowed up in a vortex of psychoanalysis, dissecting him, rather than accepting him as he is, has helped neither of us. I stopped listening to my inner voice telling me what the right thing to do is.

When I uncluttered my mind, the answer was simple. Unconditional love. No expectations. No worries. No blame. No taking away from my own needs or happiness, but simply loving the poor guy. Doesn't make me an enabler, doesn't make him a hopeless incurable head case. If he needs me, I'll be there for him. If not, I keep moving forward in life. Any more of this over-thinking and I'll go insane and down the drain with him!

[waverider]

Thank you Grey Kitty and Waverider. I do understand this on an intellectual level. Emotionally is another story. My love for him has been consistent and growing stronger for 5+ years. I don't know how to turn it off like he can. This push-pull thing is starting to have a rubberband effect. Stretch someone back and forth enough times and... .snap.

What does anyone really get out of a BPD partner? I know when it's good, it's great, and when it's bad, it's awful. But really... .We self-censor, learn new languages and codes, defuse bombs, walk around landmines... .for what? slightly less bloodshed on the battlefield? Are we at war or in love? I'm starting to question how I unknowingly enlisted in the military!

The way BPD relationships evolve in a slow insidious way brings about increasing delusional thinking from both parties.

Stripping back these delusions is what we work on here until you find a greater clarity, that way that you can make informed and sensible decisions, which are based on realistic choices.

pwBPD are not the only people who make excuses.

[Jessica84]

Touche waverider.   

[Olinda]

Maybe I have some intimacy issues. Or maybe I fell in love with a man before I realized he had intimacy issues. I'm willing to consider both.

The big problem in this present moment is his depression. I went to meditate today. For the first time in a long while I got clarity and peace. I sat there trying not to think. I suddenly remembered who we are. Two people who love each other, with one of us having a really rough time of life right now. He's been there for me many times. It's not as one-sided as I thought. It's just been awhile since I needed him.

I've always naturally known how to un-dysregulate him (new word )... .or these 5 years could've been much worse, based on all I've read here. Unfortunately, he didn't have the same gift so it was a rollercoaster at times. I only learned about BPD a few months ago. The lessons and tools started making things better... .until he took a turn for the worse.

The reality is he's made mistakes in his life. Big ones. There are consequences. He's now having to face those, hence the depression. I didn't cause this. Some of his mistakes are because of BPD, probably all of them. I've made mistakes with no excuse at all. But getting swallowed up in a vortex of psychoanalysis, dissecting him, rather than accepting him as he is, has helped neither of us. I stopped listening to my inner voice telling me what the right thing to do is.

When I uncluttered my mind, the answer was simple. Unconditional love. No expectations. No worries. No blame. No taking away from my own needs or happiness, but simply loving the poor guy. Doesn't make me an enabler, doesn't make him a hopeless incurable head case. If he needs me, I'll be there for him. If not, I keep moving forward in life. Any more of this over-thinking and I'll go insane and down the drain with him!

I hear you on unconditional love. My partner too has been struggling with depression her whole life. Sometimes it gets better but it's never gone, at least not since I've known her.  She has not made mistakes or deserved this state of mind, she was abused as a child and has a brain chemistry issue. It's not her fault. It just makes loving her and living with her difficult. I just want her to be healed and that may never happen.

This is all so complicated. How do you decide when is enough? How do you decide whether it is worth it? If you give and give and giveand get little or nothing in return, how can you survive?

[takingandsending]

I think Grey Kitty and I just had this conversation. Unconditional love is the goal that so many of us want and try to provide. I think in my own case, why I am so desperate to give it is that it was what I most desired from my parents and family and didn't get when I was a little kid. But to keep looking for it, and keep offering my best version of it, in the hopes of getting my needs met is delusional. These are inner needs not filled by outer sources.

The best I have come up with that aligns with my own values is this, I will support my uBPDw in anything that makes her happy and helps her to feel good about herself, provided it is kind and it does not harm anyone. That provision is my boundary. It is the framework on which I build this and any future RS. I tried it the other way, without that provision, and allowed my own needs and joys in life to be systematically reduced, constricted and lost. I allowed my children's health and safety to be shaken, unstable and uncertain. That provision is a must for me.

And I encourage you to consider what that "provided" statement is for you when it comes to unconditional love. Because the thing about love is you can only extend as much to others as you extend to yourself. I will say it with different words, the capacity for loving others is a result of the capacity to love yourself. If you short change yourself for your SO, you short change both of you - it doesn't work that way. And this is why pwBPD seem selfish and narcissistic ... .not because they love themselves to excess but because their capacity for self-love is almost non-existent. In the end, it limits their ability to love their "perfect" partners, families, children or anyone. They can be insightful, sensitive and caring at times, but their capacity to love others can be pretty severely limited.

[waverider]

If you continuously give, it becomes taken for granted and sets a precedent, and hence the demand becomes entrenched. Eventually your capacity to give becomes weakened. This means the care that you can provide is no longer worth giving.

As takingandsending points out this is no good for either of you.

Unlike health professionals you have constant exposure to one person with little respite. No leaving work to go and have a "normal" live, as a result you loose sight of reality. You start making excuses and deluding yourself. You both end up dysfunctional. It is this dysfunction that prevents you making the wise decisions to become centered again. You end up victim & martyr mindset.