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Author Topic: Fear?  (Read 485 times)
Moselle
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« on: November 09, 2014, 02:42:56 AM »

I think fear is used by my wife as the weapon of choice.

But what's the worst she can do? Divorce me? (What an opportunity)

Keep the children from me. (I can fight that in court)

Spread rumours about me (already done) Unpleasant, but at least I know who my friends are now.

Isolation. (Unpleasant) but this is time to work on myself and my goals.

I choose to have faith in the face of her weapons.  I choose to believe that things will get better. I choose to believe that I can be a positive influence in the lives of my children. I choose not to be a victim of her fear. I choose action.

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formflier
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2014, 03:55:39 AM »

 

I would turn this back on you... .

How can your wife use "fear".

That would only make sense if she was the one feeling it.

Since you are the one that feels this... I would turn this to a more basic thing... .can your wife "make" you feel things?

If so... then I think that indicates the need for more "detachment" work

Thoughts?
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Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2014, 08:10:23 AM »

I would turn this back on you... .

How can your wife use "fear".

That would only make sense if she was the one feeling it.

Since you are the one that feels this... I would turn this to a more basic thing... .can your wife "make" you feel things?

If so... then I think that indicates the need for more "detachment" work

Thoughts?

No she can't make me feel things. I agree on the detachment.

I might be having a permanent detachment LOL. She has invited me for a mediation to "separate our assets in divorce" next friday and she seems very serious this time. I'm not sure what to do. I guess she is making a choice because she has not taken it this far before.

I have been kind to her during the rage - 5 weeks now. Given a soft answer and walked away when I needed to. Been detached and cheerful (I'm quite proud of this). Helpful around the house. There have been some crazy moments too. She even sent me a sweet email complimenting me. And then came the rage, she is doing everything to get a reaction.

I've been conscious to tell her when I was leaving and when I would be back. 6 days. And against the raging sms' s I've encouraged her and told her it' ll get better. Maybe it will, maybe it won't,  but we are set for a tough meeting next friday. I've also reminded her of the warm and good times we've had. I'm back in town on Wednesday,  so there are two days before the meeting. I will be there with a cheerful face, but they will be tense. The children are in the middle of exams, so that will be good to focus on. She is attempting to really split them from me. They are scared to talk to me on the phone.

So she is feeling the fear. I never looked at it that way. But it would make sense. It seems like she saw the light during those 8 weeks of progress,  and panicked with the rapid changes reverting back to the familiar rage patterns which she can control.

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nightmoves
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2014, 10:55:17 AM »

I think if she can evoke or keep the fear in you - it benefits her.

Fear over losing the marriage, the family, etc... .gives her power.

Now ... trust me... .those are REAL fears... .and I COMPLETELY sympathize and empathize.

I have not yet read your earlier posts... .but I would assume somewhere along the way you

did get scared. You reacted to her rages and projections and balmes... .by accepting it all.

Oh, you may have "fought back" a bit... .but you took it.

And I am SURE it was in an effort... .and effort... .to try and fix this and figure it out.

BUT... .she learned a couple things.

YOU ... actually ... .yourself TOOK her projections.

YOU ... actually ... .ACCEPTED her anger rage and behavior.

So she began to think that you "agreed" with being the fault here.

AND ... .in doing that... .you gave her an OUTLET and a PLACE for all the angst and STUFF going on inside or her... .so ... .then she did NOT have to look inward and figure it all out.

I would bet that you have begun to get a little better at creating distance... .NOT getting so fearful... .and NOT being so quick t take on all the blame.

And - by doing that... .she is now struggling with where to put all that STUFF she carries.

She actually has to ELEVATE your being the reason... .

YOU are not now ADMITTING yourself that you are at fault... .so she is ELEVATING how bad you are ... .she is not only painting you black ... .she is DIPPING you in black.

And of COURSE... .so bad... .she must GET RID of you... .rather than look at herself... .

I know this is a difficult concept... .and I may be off base in your instance... .but what you wrote about fear... .perhaps unlocked a riddle for you.

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Moselle
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2014, 11:46:22 AM »

I think if she can evoke or keep the fear in you - it benefits her.

Fear over losing the marriage, the family, etc... .gives her power.

Now ... trust me... .those are REAL fears... .and I COMPLETELY sympathize and empathize.

I have not yet read your earlier posts... .but I would assume somewhere along the way you

did get scared. You reacted to her rages and projections and balmes... .by accepting it all.

Oh, you may have "fought back" a bit... .but you took it.

And I am SURE it was in an effort... .and effort... .to try and fix this and figure it out.

BUT... .she learned a couple things.

YOU ... actually ... .yourself TOOK her projections.

YOU ... actually ... .ACCEPTED her anger rage and behavior.

So she began to think that you "agreed" with being the fault here.

AND ... .in doing that... .you gave her an OUTLET and a PLACE for all the angst and STUFF going on inside or her... .so ... .then she did NOT have to look inward and figure it all out.

I would bet that you have begun to get a little better at creating distance... .NOT getting so fearful... .and NOT being so quick t take on all the blame.

And - by doing that... .she is now struggling with where to put all that STUFF she carries.

She actually has to ELEVATE your being the reason... .

YOU are not now ADMITTING yourself that you are at fault... .so she is ELEVATING how bad you are ... .she is not only painting you black ... .she is DIPPING you in black.

And of COURSE... .so bad... .she must GET RID of you... .rather than look at herself... .

I know this is a difficult concept... .and I may be off base in your instance... .but what you wrote about fear... .perhaps unlocked a riddle for you.

Hey Nightmoves.  That's my T shirt you're wearing LOL. Smiling (click to insert in post)

You missed the part where she slandered me completely in everybody's eyes. The interesting thing is that reasonable people have come to me and said "sorry, we see something's wrong", but she has a group of hardcores that really enjoy creating the drama. So be it.

I don't see malice in her. I have developed some compassion for her and I love her. Perhaps more now than I ever have over 14 years. She's ill and I married her for eternity. This is why it hurts so much. I don't know what she will do on Friday.  This is the 29th divorce threat in 10 months, so perhaps she let's me off the hook and I find my leggy blonde LOL. But more likely is that she strings me conveniently along.  She's NP as well, and I just don't see the financial benefit in divorce for her. She squeezes much more out of me than any court would award her.
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formflier
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2014, 01:27:01 PM »

  Been detached and cheerful   

This might be a bit invalidating... .the cheerful part.  Hard to tell... but might be a good tactic to be even and "sober"... rather than cheerful. If you see her mood go up... .then certainly try to get some momentum... .and cheer her up.  So... if she is grumpy... .and you are cheerful... .do you see how that could be invalidating?  Or come across as being a smartass... or provoking.  (I totally know you don't mean it that way)

"Sober" or "nonchalant" is most likely a better way to be... .

Thoughts?

And against the raging sms' s I've encouraged her and told her it' ll get better. 

I think you may be invalidating her again here... .

She thinks is sucks... .you tell her it will be better... .and she doesn't feel like it will get better. === INVALIDATION.

Also... .do you have a boundary with rage or raging sms?  Why respond at all? 

Do you think you are focusing too much on "validation"? 

Generally speaking... .stop the bleeding first (no more invalidation)... .and then focus on validation. 

My guess (I could be wrong)... .is that you are putting a lot of energy and focus on validation and other lessons you have learned... .yet have unknowingly invalidated a time or two... .and essentially wasted some of that effort that you spent on validation and lesson work.


Last... .have you agreed to go to this meeting about splitting things up?  If so why?  Is that a staying signal?

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Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2014, 05:19:31 PM »

Oh boy this is complicated.  I'm being myself after all of these years of gloom. Fun loving and cheerful. I'm rediscovering myself and there's laughter with the children after years of moping. I can see how it would be invalidating for me to be cheerful, as she goes through the fire. Perhaps stoic and sober is better.

She sent me a letter about a structured separation being agreed in mediation. Which then turned to "I'm divorcing you" and more rage.

You are right! I do have a choice.  Why am I allowing myself to be pulled in the direction I'm not comfortable with. Perhaps I'll change my mind on Monday and say I am not willing to attend  divorce mediation at this time, but I am willing to attend a structured separation mediation aimed at a structured approach to developing a parenting plan and re-integration,  as she proposed last week.

Thanks Form.  You have great, great insight. I will admit I'm still very much in delusional limbo, buy, but getting more wisemind as the days go by. I followed your advice lasy eek and I sent her a structure for the week last night, trying to plan it a bit and give her some certainty. When you plan your weeks with them do you share your plan or keep it to yourseL?

Can you think of anything else I might do this week to calm things down?
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formflier
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2014, 05:28:53 PM »

 

I generally don't share specific plans... remain flexible. 

I think you are fine to be happy with kids... .

Don't try to change her moods... validate her emotions...
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Moselle
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2014, 09:48:51 AM »

validate her emotions...

By saying "This must be very painful for you"

Or "I can see you're angry.  If i was in you shoes, I'd probably be angry too"

What works for you?
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Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2014, 01:21:46 PM »

Went back to the lessons and found this. Still got lots to learn LOL

#2) Validate (do this at every step)

soothe your loved ones emotions by finding something to acknowledge.

*You are validating that you understand them.

*That you accept they have a right to their feelings. Even if you don't agree with them.

*That it is a reasonable possibility, and that others would feel the same way.

*That you have empathy for them (a true connection with what they are going through).

*That there is a kernel of truth to what they are expressing.

*That they have a legitimate right to feel as they do.
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formflier
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2014, 02:58:34 PM »

By saying "This must be very painful for you"

Or "I can see you're angry.  If i was in you shoes, I'd probably be angry too"

I use "troubling"... .

If I say she is angry... .and she is anxious... .I could get a blast back in the face.

Now... .if you ask her how she is feeling... and she says "angry"... .then have at it.

Being specific and wrong... .is invalidating.

Hard to be wrong with "troubling"... .
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Moselle
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 12:28:18 AM »

Thanks!

Methinks I'll need this tomorrow. I've been away on business for 6 days, and I'm going back to the fun and her divorce mediation on Friday. I've decided to go to it - if only to agree a parenting plan. Has your wife ever committed to stay? Mine made alot of promises and commitmnets during our 8 week positive upswing.  But she seems to have forgotten them LOL. Anyway, that's not my business.  My job is to love her in every moment without expectation of whether the relationship will go on or not.

Here goes:

"You seem troubled. You have every right to feel that way and most other people in your position would probably feel the same.

I'm here to help. Do you need me to listen, give advice or help you with solutions?"

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formflier
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2014, 04:51:15 AM »

 

If you don't want a divorce... .if you want to stay in a r/s with her... .why go to a meeting about ending that?  I get the parenting plan thing... .but how do you participate in that... .without sending signals about agreeing with end of the r/s.

here is the thing... .if she wants out... .she can file... and do this... .and you can't stop her.  But she would have to shoulder the guilt, the blame... .the work to do this.

By "participating"... .you are taking some of that load off of her... .making it easier for her to "get rid" of the r/s. 

Now... if this is what you want... .then go for it.

I'm just pointing this out... .because this is the staying board... .and you seem to be consistent with wanting to stay with her.  Attending this meeting seems to be inconsistent with that.

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Moselle
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 06:49:35 AM »

Well, thanks for the support Formflier! I was about to cave in. But I didn't. It is not what I want. I decided to "stay", and I'm being consistent with that, regardless of her choices. 

I sent W a mail indicating I would not be attending and I just spoke to the mediator, and explained my position as well. She (the mediator) was very understanding, and said she hoped it turned out well.

Now W needs to choose. We'll see what comes back.

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formflier
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 10:10:39 AM »

 

I love it.

don't "challenge" her... .just state your position... .leave it at that... .and move along to trying to have a r/s with her.

So... .to be clear... .she should never hear you say... .if you want a divorce... you have to do it.

That would be seen as a challenge.

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Moselle
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« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2014, 12:07:55 PM »

I love it.

don't "challenge" her... .just state your position... .leave it at that... .and move along to trying to have a r/s with her.

So... .to be clear... .she should never hear you say... .if you want a divorce... you have to do it.

That would be seen as a challenge.

Thanks! I managed not to do that tonight Smiling (click to insert in post) This is like a life within a life LOL.

She has enough hysterical friends pushing her that way. I'm not going to add to the pile.

I am going to make feel special, loved and validated, by recognising when she's troubled, validating her feelings and emotions. Tell her I'm there to help, and asking if she's would like me to listen, give advice or help her work through solutions.

OK, one step at a time. This feels like a juggling act between getting my self sorted out emotionally, adjusting to a new way of interacting with her, and trying to minimise the effect on the children... .Oh and somewhere in there trying to earn a living!
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Heartandsole
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« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2014, 02:52:39 PM »

Nightmoves your inbox is full.  I can't respond to your PM's.
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Moselle
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2014, 08:40:22 AM »

I'm back in. She seems very amicable.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). I'm ready for the dysregulation, but trying hard not to pre-empt it.

I'm going to plan my week, and try to build the r/s

Going to do the following things

- Watch TV on the couch

- Make supper together

- Talk about the children

No 1:1 talks at this point.

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« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2014, 09:05:39 AM »

 

I totally relate to how you are thinking... .

the key is to get to the point where you are genuinely surprised by a dysregulation... .but not shocked and reactive.

I find that this makes the "help me understand what you are feeling... ."... .to be a bit more genuine... .


Enjoy being in... .Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Moselle
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Every day is a gift. Live it fully


« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2014, 11:02:13 AM »

Formflier,

Thanks for your support through this. I stuck to my guns and she opted for the structured reintroduction.  Now begins a process of how to structure it. The vision is there and she's agreed. Now the nuts and bolts need finessing.

And is appears she still has some appetite for me ;-)
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